Microsoft Stands Firm on Xbox Live Bans

[Jhereg42]

So, here's a question:
If they ban them from Xbox Live, couldn't they just create a new gamertag and get back in?

In this case no. They banned the console serial number not the Gamertag. They don't need a new account, but they do need a new console.

 

[Supreme Unleaded]

Good job on the Uber Ban Massacre Microsoft, no really I mean good job on that.

But seriosly, a DAY, a MOTHER FUCKING DAY after MW2's realese, that is NOT a coincidence, we all know it.

Although i do kinda think Microsft is shooting themselves in the foot with this one, a million users now can't play online, where are they going to go. Well I bet most of them will swap to the PS3, the others will just forget about the Xbox and go back to only using the computer, of course thats pretty much all run by microsoft. Okay then, MS is 50% shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Alarid]

When do people learn? There is a reason they are known as "Micro$oft". That definitely sounds like an oddly timed ban.

It just makes it hilarious though! After all the cheaters downloaded their game and burned it just to have their XBL subscription revoked!

 

[DrunkWithPower]

Jesus Christ, I've never seen one company so wishy washy. First they are tough, then play passive, then back to aggressive. Make up your mind! Do you want to be a machine that eats kittens and breed devil swine or do you play pattycake with Twilight fans?

 

[The DSM]

Law suits?

"Im taking you to court as I broke the clear instructions I had to agree to to join Xbox live and now have to face consequences!"

Some people didnt read when they signed up...

 

[DrHoboPHD]

Good job on the Uber Ban Massacre Microsoft, no really I mean good job on that.

But seriosly, a DAY, a MOTHER FUCKING DAY after MW2's realese, that is NOT a coincidence, we all know it.

You're right, it was meant to get more pirates in the mass banning. While all the morons who call Microsoft 'M$' will probably say it was to get more money in reality it was because there would be more pirates online, which means they would get more at once, it hadn othing to do with money.

 

[TheTygerfire]

Gotta love that EULA. Consumer rights are stripped away and no one cares.

Wait...what? That voids the warranty. Not the EULA.

 

[Alphavillain]

Can't they just create new accounts with a new (unmodded) 360? And not do it again? They must have known that they'd get banned.
I don't look down my nose at people that break the rules (contrary to some people that think people that play pirated games are next to rapists in the scale of damnation), but if you get caught, grow up and take your punishment.

 

[laura3lizab3th]

Well, they had it coming, its the risk they took.
ha.

 

[theultimateend]

I still say they got what was coming to them.

Yeah but if you steal from thieves you aren't exactly doing good.

Which I think is what the lawsuit has going for it.

Basically Microsoft timed it so that they could get the most money out of faulty morals. Which is what these modders are doing.

Feel free to tell me "NAY! These heathens deservest the fires of a thousand hells! Microsoft are though saints forest they who doth now so unrightly scorn!"

Since I'm sure someone will.

Good job on the Uber Ban Massacre Microsoft, no really I mean good job on that.

But seriosly, a DAY, a MOTHER FUCKING DAY after MW2's realese, that is NOT a coincidence, we all know it.

You're right, it was meant to get more pirates in the mass banning. While all the morons who call Microsoft 'M$' will probably say it was to get more money in reality it was because there would be more pirates online, which means they would get more at once, it hadn othing to do with money.

I don't call them M$ and I defend their non gaming efforts fairly rabidly. But I highly doubt you are correct in your assumption. Mainly because they had months of documentation of these pirates. They would have barely gotten anyone on the release of MW2. I highly doubt any noticeable number of people bought modded 360's JUST to get MW2.

Yeah, my friend was banned during the second wave of bans, so he bought a PS3.

Something to do with him being a dirty pirate, apparently.

I've been banned a few time from various services for being a hacker over the last 10 years or so. I'm just waiting for the day when I get the instruction manual so that I can at least know what I've gotten in trouble for.

Doesn't help that my name is extremely common. I've gotten my fathers bills a few times too.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Good for Microsoft. People who break the Terms that they agreed to need to be punished. XBL is no different than an internet forum like The Escapist. You break the rules, you get your ass beat.

Banning somebody withour refunding the money they paid is wrong though. sure they have the right to go your no longer a memebr, but they have to refund membership fees. Remember modding an xbox is not illegal, using the mods to do illegal things is. A terms of service contract does not give M$ the right to steal.

If they wanted to keep their money so bad they should have not modded it in the first place.

Except they might have NEEDED to mod the console just to get it to work properly. Yeah, modding a console is terrible, but a company shipping a broken system is A-OK.

 

[Croaker42]

Haha this is great. People geting angry because they did stupid.
I personally would have waited another day or two just to get the most out of new subs/game sales.
I hope MS sticks to their guns on this one. The modders got what was coming to them.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Wait, how would they be able to tell if you just customized the outside?

Well, obviously if you changed something like the chassis, MS wouldn't have a way of knowing. Unfortunately, doing other sorts of modifications such as replacing the HDD or cooling fan with non-MS approved brands is also considered a breach of the TOS. I'm sure that some of the bans were due to that.

Gotta love that EULA. Consumer rights are stripped away and no one cares.

This. SO this. I have no problem with Microsoft banning pirates, but it's completely logical that somebody with some technical savvy might want to replace the cooling fan on their 360 for extremely obvious reasons to do with Microsoft's shoddy manufacturing.

So just because I put a part in my system that would KEEP IT WORKING, I would get banned? That's crap.

 

[John-Joe]

Wasn't it just the Xbox live accounts being banned? - but they could still play offline?

I don't own an Xbox, but how big a deal is it being online?

 

[Therumancer]

Seriously, someone explain to me what modding the console is, are we talking about cracking it so it plays pirated games, or just changing housing of the console? If its just changing the housing I see nothing wrong with that, if its cracking the console to play pirated games I hope the ban-hammer hit those suckers hard.

The second one. As I understand it, these bans were supposed to be targeting those with consoles that play pirated games.

I've read differant takes on the subject in various places.

Allegedly the crackdown was to target people who were cheating in games. This is also apparently why (according to some sources/supposition) they waited as alleged until the release of a couple of hugely popular games to get as many people online as possible and
nail them at once as cheaters.

This "bust" being somewhat in response to how bold some people were being showing "loox I am hacking MW2 on day 1 which is supposed to be impossible" on youtube and the like.

In general I have no objection to this and even say "about time", I would have preferred they decided to target guys in fighting games personally (my multiplayer vice) rather than FPS games though.

The problem I have with this is that they DID attack people who were "pirates" though in reality for the most part they weren't hitting pirates but people who modded their systems to say play Japanese games or whatever accross region restrictions. Given that I am against the principle of region locking I actually supported people who chose to do this, and feel that Microsoft has been pandering to censors and not supporting the idea of free speech by having a region locked console at a time when their competition (the PS-3) is region free.

Allegedly people were hit by this banhammer for things as simple as say having logged into the Japanese version of the XBL stores and DLed demos or content. Of so go some claims go. One person I talked to claims he believes he was kicked for having DLed content for Tales Of Vesperia from Japan before a US release, it being the only thing on his system that might not have been kosher.

To me I see this as being a multi-pronged issue. To me it's not as much a matter of Microsoft having the rights, as whether they SHOULD have had the rights. As I see things this lawsuit is largely going to be fighting the law in the same fashion that patients went after doctors for malpractice contracts years ago. Basically a doctor getting patients to sign a waiver (refusing to operate otherwise) clearing them from all responsibility, and then messing up in a surgery due to their own negligence or mistakes, and claiming that it doesn't matter if they were drunk or whatever they signed away the rights. The end result is that it was basically determined that for the most part a doctor can get you to sign anything but there are some rights a person can't "waive". The contracts effectively becoming illegal because the law was decided not to allow for them. A victory here could very well do the same thing for EULAs which would be a good thing. Basically saying that a user can't give up those rights to begin with thus none of these agreements are, or ever would be, binding.

Simply put if this suit succeeds it will not be because the basic idea of a EULA was bad, but because companie ssimply started using them for stupid things. Had Microsoft limited their behavior to targeting cheaters... well I don't think we'd be having this conversation.


Also the exact numbers are unknown, I've mentioned that I suspect a million might actually be low because if people have been hit for some of the things they said they were hit for the numbers are probably mind boggling.

Time will tell what is going to happen. Right now though I am not a big defender of the rights of game companies. As far as I'm concerned they got too big, became too corrupt, and have started to stomp all over their fans and users harder than ever before. It makes it hard for me to feel sympathy for anything that happens to them, and truthfully I'd probably be cheering for Microsoft getting a bloody nose for whatever reason.

 

[John-Joe]

1. Starcraft/Brood War
2. Star Wars: Empire at War/Forces of Corruption
3. Sonic Riders
4. Star Wars Battlefront II
5. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

Alternately:
1. Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
2. MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries
3. Scribblenauts
4. Portal
5. Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles

And quite possibly:
1. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
2. Call of Duty: Finest Hour
3. SkiFree
4. Streets of Sim City
5. Battlefield 2: Modern Combat

Yes, I have 3 different lists, which get mixed around for things like this.

Agreed.

 

[Epitome]

Again, I say you paid them, they provided the service, and you broke the rules. They have no obligation and you have no right to ask for it back.

And don't ask me what would happen if I got banned, because I actually follow the agreement.

the people who were banned are not entitled to a refund, as it was not MS fault that their system was banned, it was their own doing. If you get kicked out of an amusement park for breaking the rules, they aren't going to refund you your money.

As for the timing, there is not one word anywhere that says that they cannot do a banning sweep before or after the release of a AAA title.. The reason they did do it is because the people who have illegally modified consoles will be more likely to be online during that period, therefore they can hit more pirates at once

When it comes down to it, the only thing illegal that was happening were the people modding their consoles. MS is well within their right to ban them for that, whether or not they have just purchased a new year XBL subscription or not.

Microsoft didn't ban the user accounts, they banned the serial numbers for the modded 360's. No Gamerpoints or Subscriptions were lost, they just need a new 360 to use them. The only way your gamertag gets banned is if you go into a full in depth review of the circumstances and they find against you.

The claim against microsoft for unjust enrichment does not have a leg to stand on because of that.

A Term of Service is a legal contract granting or restricting certain rights...a legal contract that you agree to...and this particular one states:

"f. Refund Policies. Unless otherwise provided by law or in connection with any particular Service offer, all charges are non-refundable and the costs of any returns will be at your expense."
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/legal/LiveTOU.htm

I'm actually disgusted with the replies i recieved here, so im going to respond en masse.
First let me state I few things:

First I am not one of the people who had their console banned. Infact I currently dont have an Xbox 360 because my second one RROD'd a few months ago and MS wouldnt replace either of them, just kept giving me the run around on the help line. I am hoping to get a new one at Xmas and when I get a subsription I will be abiding by the terms of service. I am NOT supporting modding used for piracy.

Second I was unaware that the gamerscores etc remained intact, I was under the impression that the accounts were linked to the xboxs and banned. I still disagree with the ban en masse though, many of the modders were simply providing functionality that MS would not provide themselves, people who just made genuine backups of there games as permitted by law should not be punished by the ban. Its happened to most of us surely, a disc will skip in a tray, something will nudge the console and just like that your expected to pay full retail for a new copy.

Many people here seems to be using the words "modders" and "pirates" interchangably and its just not accurate. Modders have every right to open property they paid for and improve it in any way they see fit. If MS doesnt not want to provide functionality then they shouldnt ***** when people do it for themselves and it falls within the confines of the law.

Before I get the "terms of service" contract thing thrown back at me let me say that I think the ToS contract is BS. Just imagine that we are speaking in terms of what is morally right, people who upgraded their consoles in no violation of the law should not be punished so harshly by MS for not doing things their way. Even when it is in violation of the law does not make it wrong either, take MW2 for example, Activision took away the dedicated servers with no good reason and said deal with it. Somebody wrote the code that Activision wouldnt and now people who buy MW2 in a shop and crack it themselves should have every right to play it on a dediacted server, I'm not talking about pirates who dl and crack, I mean retail copies with increased functionality. How can people look at the ToS contract like its the 10 commandments, it is not infallible and its sole purpose is to cover MS's ass why should you defend it?

 

[Smudge91]

The lawyers have no case. The users signed a legal document as soon as they pressed ok, Microsoft have the right to ban them. Good for microsoft for not standing down and taking action against piracy.