Microsoft Stands Firm on Xbox Live Bans

[Laxman9292]

Good for Microsoft. People who break the Terms that they agreed to need to be punished. XBL is no different than an internet forum like The Escapist. You break the rules, you get your ass beat.

Banning somebody withour refunding the money they paid is wrong though. sure they have the right to go your no longer a memebr, but they have to refund membership fees. Remember modding an xbox is not illegal, using the mods to do illegal things is. A terms of service contract does not give M$ the right to steal.

Sure it does, there are plenty of things that are non refundable (concert tickets for one) and that is if you decide you do not want to participate anymore, if you violate their rules you lose your right to complain about not getting a refund. besides, modding an xbox is against the terms of service of xbox live, so if you mod and play single player you are just having fun, but if you do it online you are diminishing the experience for others as well as breaking the rules, and you deserve the punishment previously stated in the binding contract you AGREED to

 

[Klagermeister]

So, here's a question:
If they ban them from Xbox Live, couldn't they just create a new gamertag and get back in?

Actually, I heard that when you're banned from XBL, they have your credit card number and IP address on a "black list".
So they could only do that if they did one of 2 things...
1. Get a new credit card.
2. Change your IP address.
Both of which are a ***** to do, so the modders are pretty much gone forever.

 

[chronobreak]

Although i do kinda think Microsft is shooting themselves in the foot with this one, a million users now can't play online, where are they going to go. Well I bet most of them will swap to the PS3, the others will just forget about the Xbox and go back to only using the computer, of course thats pretty much all run by microsoft. Okay then, MS is 50% shooting themselves in the foot.

You have to realize, however, that all these people that were pirating games weren't paying for them in the first place, so it's not like they are losing any money from getting rid of them. I'd think it's pretty safe to say, in the majority of cases, a pirate is always going to pirate things until they get caught, so it wouldn't even be a matter of them propping up the competition. They'd just probably go pirate some PC games and play them until they could go back to their old routine.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

I would just like to point out to everyone that modding a console you own is perfectly legal. However Microsoft still reserves the right to ban you from their online service.

Many people here seems to be using the words "modders" and "pirates" interchangably and its just not accurate. Modders have every right to open property they paid for and improve it in any way they see fit. If MS doesnt not want to provide functionality then they shouldnt ***** when people do it for themselves and it falls within the confines of the law.

both of you guys are WRONG. there is a law in the United States called the DMCA, this makes ANY mods illegal, no matter what you want to do with it. if they put in a protect scheme, which m$ has done, doing anything to go around said scheme, which mod chips do, is illegal and in violation of the law.

this is why they go after people who sell the chips that modify consoles. this has been proven in court several times, any modifications that are not purely cosmetic are illegal as they circumvent any protect schemes that m$ has put into place

seriously you should go learn some laws before you go saying what is and what isn't illegal. this law has been around for well over 10 years and this particular part of the law has been tested time and time again and has stood up.

 

[Laxman9292]

Before I get the "terms of service" contract thing thrown back at me let me say that I think the ToS contract is BS. Just imagine that we are speaking in terms of what is morally right, people who upgraded their consoles in no violation of the law should not be punished so harshly by MS for not doing things their way. Even when it is in violation of the law does not make it wrong either, take MW2 for example, Activision took away the dedicated servers with no good reason and said deal with it. Somebody wrote the code that Activision wouldnt and now people who buy MW2 in a shop and crack it themselves should have every right to play it on a dediacted server, I'm not talking about pirates who dl and crack, I mean retail copies with increased functionality. How can people look at the ToS contract like its the 10 commandments, it is not infallible and its sole purpose is to cover MS's ass why should you defend it?

If you think the ToS is bs then do not agree with it, but do not select the I agree option. If you do then you put yourself at the mercy of the ToS, which i find personally reasonable, regardless of whether you think it is fair. Remember, MS is providing you a service, if you do not like the way that service is run then do not use it, it is morally reprehensible to lie and say you agree just to use XBL and then break the rules and cry foul when you get banned for breaking a legal contract that you agreed to. I realize that you are not one of them but i was addressing those who are. You do not pay to go to a concert, spit in the faces of the performers and then demand your money back, so why do you agree to MS' ToS, break them, and then demand your money back.

 

[TheTygerfire]

Many people here seems to be using the words "modders" and "pirates" interchangably and its just not accurate. Modders have every right to open property they paid for and improve it in any way they see fit. If MS doesnt not want to provide functionality then they shouldnt ***** when people do it for themselves and it falls within the confines of the law.

What possible functionality beyond piracy or hacking could gained, used, or needed from modding a console?

 

[muckinscavitch]

Microsoft did the right thing and should NOT refund the money.

Simple mathematics:
Microsoft makes money from games.
People pirate (or, a better word STEAL) games, so microsoft makes no money off of the games the paid to develop.
Microsoft bans people without refunding them
People by new xbl accounts, thus refunding the money lost from microsoft earlier.

Microsoft is not stealing money from these people, they are simply claiming the money that is legally theirs.

Whoever thinks otherwise is clearly one of the people who got banned, and therefore have a grudge. People need to learn to play by the rules or get out of life.

 

[Epitome]

Before I get the "terms of service" contract thing thrown back at me let me say that I think the ToS contract is BS. Just imagine that we are speaking in terms of what is morally right, people who upgraded their consoles in no violation of the law should not be punished so harshly by MS for not doing things their way. Even when it is in violation of the law does not make it wrong either, take MW2 for example, Activision took away the dedicated servers with no good reason and said deal with it. Somebody wrote the code that Activision wouldnt and now people who buy MW2 in a shop and crack it themselves should have every right to play it on a dediacted server, I'm not talking about pirates who dl and crack, I mean retail copies with increased functionality. How can people look at the ToS contract like its the 10 commandments, it is not infallible and its sole purpose is to cover MS's ass why should you defend it?

If you think the ToS is bs then do not agree with it, but do not select the I agree option. If you do then you put yourself at the mercy of the ToS, which i find personally reasonable, regardless of whether you think it is fair. Remember, MS is providing you a service, if you do not like the way that service is run then do not use it, it is morally reprehensible to lie and say you agree just to use XBL and then break the rules and cry foul when you get banned for breaking a legal contract that you agreed to. I realize that you are not one of them but i was addressing those who are. You do not pay to go to a concert, spit in the faces of the performers and then demand your money back, so why do you agree to MS' ToS, break them, and then demand your money back.

Easy to say when the law prohibits setting up a competing Xbox online service, and MS would crush anybody who tried. If that was allowed then i would say yes your right find somewhere else to go. But MS its our way or no way and taht is morally wrong. In your situation surely there should be two versions of games one with teh multiplayer excluded for people who dont want to pay for teh service they wont use?

Many people here seems to be using the words "modders" and "pirates" interchangably and its just not accurate. Modders have every right to open property they paid for and improve it in any way they see fit. If MS doesnt not want to provide functionality then they shouldnt ***** when people do it for themselves and it falls within the confines of the law.

What possible functionality beyond piracy or hacking could gained, used, or needed from modding a console?

Take a look at the Wii, without modding it cant play DVD's. Now really nintendo gonna pull that shit and your gonna buy it why shouldnt you be able to have a media centre on your Wii?

 

[TheTygerfire]

Take a look at the Wii, without modding it cant play DVD's. Now really nintendo gonna pull that shit and your gonna buy it why shouldnt you be able to have a media centre on your Wii?

You both answered and didn't answer my question.

1) Oh, the horror, my Wii can't play DVDs....Give me a break, TV's come with those BUILT IN now. That is in no way worth my Wii being bricked.

2) We're not talking about the Wii. I didn't specify in my question, no, but you're essentially changing subjects. Lemme ask again. What possible use could you get from the modification of an Xbox 360 that isn't the ability to pirate games or hack games?

 

[Epitome]

Microsoft did the right thing and should NOT refund the money.

Simple mathematics:
Microsoft makes money from games.
People pirate (or, a better word STEAL) games, so microsoft makes no money off of the games the paid to develop.
Microsoft bans people without refunding them
People by new xbl accounts, thus refunding the money lost from microsoft earlier.

Microsoft is not stealing money from these people, they are simply claiming the money that is legally theirs.

Whoever thinks otherwise is clearly one of the people who got banned, and therefore have a grudge. People need to learn to play by the rules or get out of life.

Okay first off MS make PLENTY of money off teh games they develop. What your trying to say is that they should make, more money than they do. Second piracy and stealing are not interchanagble words as much as you would would like them to be and for that reason they have seperate legal definitions. MS bans people and then extorts there deactived accounts in hopes of regaining their patronage you mean, if pirates are STEALING as you so indelicately put it then why would they return to MS instead of just switching to say PS3 or back to PC where ther efforts are less impeded.

I disagree with your statement and i am not one of thebanned, not even a member of XBL and "get out of life" is a pointless statement akin to; you should do as they say or die.

 

[Epitome]

Take a look at the Wii, without modding it cant play DVD's. Now really nintendo gonna pull that shit and your gonna buy it why shouldnt you be able to have a media centre on your Wii?

You both answered and didn't answer my question.

1) Oh, the horror, my Wii can't play DVDs....Give me a break, TV's come with those BUILT IN now. That is in no way worth my Wii being bricked.

2) We're not talking about the Wii. I didn't specify in my question, no, but you're essentially changing subjects. Lemme ask again. What possible use could you get from the modification of an Xbox 360 that isn't the ability to pirate games or hack games?

1. Its still a hardware improvement and one of many that can be installed without Nintendos say so

2. Creating legitimate backups of your disks on the hard drive so you dont have to fear the lost/scratched disc for one? A very important one I might add.

 

[TheTygerfire]

1. Its still a hardware improvement and one of many that can be installed without Nintendos say so

2. Creating legitimate backups of your disks on the hard drive so you dont have to fear the lost/scratched disc for one? A very important one I might add.

\

1) It's against Nintendo's Terms of Service, and the updates they put out brick any modded consoles.

2) Yeah....LEGIT backups. Try taking care of your discs. It's a lot less expensive and actually follows the EULA.

I'm done arguing with you, you're obviously someone that either mods consoles or uses one. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Schlorgan]

Oh Boo Hoo! Get over it! You broke the rules!

 

[Hyrulian Hero]

how can they attempt to sue microsoft or even complain that they were banned? You don't rob a bank and then sue the bank for sending the police after you do you? No. If you do something bad, you can't get pissed when the consequences bite you in the ass. If your gamertag is deleted and your console is bricked, whether it was a day after Modern Warfare 2 or not, it's your own stupid fault and you deserve it! I hope they do sue microsoft, lose, and then get countersued by Microsoft for wasting their damn time. You wanna play a game, buy it! Then you will be able to play it legally, ya know, like the rest of us!

 

[KiKiweaky]

Being a cute whore and modding your xbox 360 like that, they got what was coming to em. I pay for the games I play so should they.

 

[z0nbie]

But seriosly, a DAY, a MOTHER FUCKING DAY after MW2's realese, that is NOT a coincidence, we all know it.

why would anyone think it was just a coincidence... they implemented the ban when they knew most people with modded consoles would be playing (which breaks the user agreement the banned console owner "accepted" the terms of ... contracts are not just words ... they have them for a reason)

 

[Hyrulian Hero]

Microsoft did the right thing and should NOT refund the money.

Simple mathematics:
Microsoft makes money from games.
People pirate (or, a better word STEAL) games, so microsoft makes no money off of the games the paid to develop.
Microsoft bans people without refunding them
People by new xbl accounts, thus refunding the money lost from microsoft earlier.

Microsoft is not stealing money from these people, they are simply claiming the money that is legally theirs.

Whoever thinks otherwise is clearly one of the people who got banned, and therefore have a grudge. People need to learn to play by the rules or get out of life.

Okay first off MS make PLENTY of money off teh games they develop. What your trying to say is that they should make, more money than they do. Second piracy and stealing are not interchanagble words as much as you would would like them to be and for that reason they have seperate legal definitions. MS bans people and then extorts there deactived accounts in hopes of regaining their patronage you mean, if pirates are STEALING as you so indelicately put it then why would they return to MS instead of just switching to say PS3 or back to PC where ther efforts are less impeded.

I disagree with your statement and i am not one of thebanned, not even a member of XBL and "get out of life" is a pointless statement akin to; you should do as they say or die.

Ok, microsoft may make lots of money on the games they develop, but do you realize that most games spend two years in development? You spend 60 bucks on a game that took two years to make, you got a damn good deal. Second, piracy is stealing! What else would it be? You are illegally, and for FREE, taking something that would otherwise cost money and does not legally belong to you, and getting use out of it. That is kinda the deffinition of stealing. The reason they don't simply go to PS3 or back to PC is because PS3 has a far inferior list of games, and it's getting to the point where a PC that performs at a comperable level to a 360 costs significantly more than the system. Also, microsoft is not extorting anyone's account. Your account is forfeit the moment you start modding your console and playing illegally burned games with it. If you go to a video rental store, and don't return the videos you get out, they close your account, same for a library if you dont return books, same for any place that has dues you need to pay to keep your membership active. The common theme here is that you have to follow the rules that go along with the membership. If you do not, the controlling party has the right to revoke your membership, which you agreed to when you signed up. Disagreeing with this is just plain ignorant because it is all clearly stated in the rules of the membership.

Or, in short, you are dumb!

 

[Epitome]

1. Its still a hardware improvement and one of many that can be installed without Nintendos say so

2. Creating legitimate backups of your disks on the hard drive so you dont have to fear the lost/scratched disc for one? A very important one I might add.

\

1) It's against Nintendo's Terms of Service, and the updates they put out brick any modded consoles.

2) Yeah....LEGIT backups. Try taking care of your discs. It's a lot less expensive and actually follows the EULA.

I'm done arguing with you, you're obviously someone that either mods consoles or uses one. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Like I said before I am not, it has long been my opinion that Ms, Sony and Nintendo have been screwing over their customers for years and crying pirates anytime somebody does something about it. People find ways to add the functionality they want to there consoles at no harm at all to you or Ms. Ms shut it down because they want 100% control of their product and from a business perspective i can see why, the people I dont understand are people like you. Those modders who never engaged in piracy never made any differenc eto you or teh way in which you game. They have been shut down and here you gloat over them as your somehow better than them because look at you, you followed the rules and nothing bad happened. your the teachers pet who forgets which class he is in and who his peers are supposed to be.

 

[z0nbie]

1. Its still a hardware improvement and one of many that can be installed without Nintendos say so

2. Creating legitimate backups of your disks on the hard drive so you dont have to fear the lost/scratched disc for one? A very important one I might add.

\

1) It's against Nintendo's Terms of Service, and the updates they put out brick any modded consoles.

2) Yeah....LEGIT backups. Try taking care of your discs. It's a lot less expensive and actually follows the EULA.

I'm done arguing with you, you're obviously someone that either mods consoles or uses one. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Like I said before I am not, it has long been my opinion that Ms, Sony and Nintendo have been screwing over their customers for years and crying pirates anytime somebody does something about it. People find ways to add the functionality they want to there consoles at no harm at all to you or Ms. Ms shut it down because they want 100% control of their product and from a business perspective i can see why, the people I dont understand are people like you. Those modders who never engaged in piracy never made any differenc eto you or teh way in which you game. They have been shut down and here you gloat over them as your somehow better than them because look at you, you followed the rules and nothing bad happened. your the teachers pet who forgets which class he is in and who his peers are supposed to be.

And you're ripping on people for following the rules ? You're probably either poor or cheap and can't afford games... no need to rip on people who can ... I can't afford a jet... I'm not going to steal one. If i did maybe I'd be "cool" like you for not following the rules though

 

[Epitome]

Ok, microsoft may make lots of money on the games they develop, but do you realize that most games spend two years in development? You spend 60 bucks on a game that took two years to make, you got a damn good deal. Second, piracy is stealing! What else would it be? You are illegally, and for FREE, taking something that would otherwise cost money and does not legally belong to you, and getting use out of it. That is kinda the deffinition of stealing. The reason they don't simply go to PS3 or back to PC is because PS3 has a far inferior list of games, and it's getting to the point where a PC that performs at a comperable level to a 360 costs significantly more than the system. Also, microsoft is not extorting anyone's account. Your account is forfeit the moment you start modding your console and playing illegally burned games with it. If you go to a video rental store, and don't return the videos you get out, they close your account, same for a library if you dont return books, same for any place that has dues you need to pay to keep your membership active. The common theme here is that you have to follow the rules that go along with the membership. If you do not, the controlling party has the right to revoke your membership, which you agreed to when you signed up. Disagreeing with this is just plain ignorant because it is all clearly stated in the rules of the membership.

Or, in short, you are dumb!

Wow name calling, nice to see you brought you good debating skills this time. You are yet again making the fatal false connection between "modders" and "pirates", The two are very distinct different groups and yes it is possible to be a member of one and not the other. 2 years is a relatively short timeline btw im not saying alot of hard work doesnt go into games and nor am I supportng piracy. Your confusing the issue here. The piracy vs stealing arguement is a very long and complex one and is not the one that is under discussion about this particular topic. Allow me reiterate my position, those that modded their consoles, to allow them to play pirated copies of games deserve to be banhammered,I accept that, MS should not be using up bandwith on freeloaders, the system cant work like that. Now the "modders" who legally upgraded their consoles to provide additional legal functionality do not deserve the banhammer aloing side the pirates, because their modding did not cost MS anything, they paid for their games, they dont have some new edge over you with their mods and they paid for their subscription. Why should they face the banhammer so they have to fork out another ?200 at least to just to regain what is rightfully theirs?