Misandry

[Jux]

Probably the most common criticism of PUA's[footnote]pick up artists[/footnote] and 'game' are the misogynistic elements. Everything from treating women like objects to be won (usually only for the purpose of sex), to the formulaic approach to picking up women, to the oft confusing 'slut/*****' dictotomy, to the very techniques that are recommended in picking up women, many of which are abusive and manipulative[footnote]Toxic masculinity at it's finest folks[/footnote].

But what isn't often talked about is how misandric PUA's can be too in their thinking. And that is the primary focus of this thread. While reading this amusing piece [http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/04/02/defcock-1-pickup-guru-roosh-v-warns-men-of-roving-witch-mobs-and-vagina-shaped-mushroom-clouds/], I came across this as a reference:
http://www.donotlink.com/framed?23210

While there are plenty of bits to take issue with in this piece, the following excerpt is what I'm going to focus on.

When I look at myself in the mirror, I don?t see a man who has improved himself over the years to be the best that his genes allow?I see a glittery skirt that a girl encounters in the mall. Is the skirt too expensive or is it on sale? Is there only one left of her size or is the rack full of them? Does she already have something similar or is it totally novel? Does her friends think it?s cute or just alright? After trying it on, does it flatter her body or make her look fat? Either she makes the impulsive decision to buy the skirt or not, because odds are she won?t come back for it. There are so many stores with so many skirts that she will soon forget it, forever. We are like glittery pieces of fashion to women?items that she truly doesn?t need. Not only has she already collected so many of them, but she can easily obtain more within walking distance from where she lives. She can even browse online from home while in her pajamas through a nearly unlimited selection.

We are not men in the traditional sense?we are clowns. With our tight game we have to be entertainers who create drama and excitement in a girl?s life, just long enough so that she spreads her legs and makes sexy noises, and even though she did commit such an intimate act with us, she will soon lose interest or simply get bored, and then move on to the next shiny cock that catches her eye.

It's easy to pick out the misogynistic bits. He thinks women are insipid and feckless that treat men like accessories to be used and discarded[footnote]An interesting perspective to have considering how often he claims to go from woman to woman[/footnote]. But what does that tell us about how he feels about men? Instead of rejecting this line of thinking and looking for mutual respect and intimacy with his partners, or even rejecting the idea of being treated like an object (if his premise were true to begin with. hint: it isn't), he instead resigns to debasing himself, and claiming that others need to do the same (if they want to have sex). This lack of respect for himself (and men in general) is almost as saddening to me as I find his lack of respect for women disgusting.

In another post it looks like he almost has a moment of self awareness: http://www.donotlink.com/framed?553652

Mini-relationships and harem maintenance are nothing more than entertainment and serious relationships are drudgery, one step away from slavery. Both are unsatisfactory.

So what?s the answer? Is it eternal bachelorhood, of banging a handful of new girls each season, hopping from one new mini-relationship to the next, but achieving no depth or novelty in what you haven?t achieved before, or is it making what could be the biggest mistake of your life by knocking a girl up and riding the fatherhood roller coaster for the next 20 years? I could go out this weekend and hit it hard, maybe getting laid, but my intensive pursuit of sex in the past decade has sated me where I wouldn?t be upset if I failed. Or maybe the answer is that the happiness I have sought in women can?t be achieved at all, and whether I ride the slut carousel or settle down with one girl, I?ll still end up asking myself, ?Is this it??

For all the scaremongering about 'misandric' feminists, I think people are looking in the wrong direction. There is plenty of misandry out there, I just think most of it is coming from other men.

cap: without a doubt

 

[Fappy]

Man, those quotes were hard to read. Treating others with respect often starts with doing so for yourself. The author is basically just reflecting his own insecurities (and those he feels every man shares) onto the entire female population. This kind of bullshit always makes me wonder what kind of women these guys have in their lives. Like, do they have a mother and sisters... perhaps old friends that they never considered banging? Always associating women with sex is damaging and just... fucking weird.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

"He thinks women are insipid and feckless that treat men like accessories to be used and discarded"

Well, if nothing else, at least he's not expecting any more emotional investment in a relationship than he's prepared to put in himself.

And yeah, there really is nothing else.

Hey, guess what guys, self-esteem is actually more than just looking in the mirror and smiling. It projects outwards. If you don't think you're worth any more to a woman than a brief encounter, then that's all you're going to get. Why should another human being invest their happiness in you when you act like you're dead inside, and that you're never going to return that investment?

 

[Tiger King]

what's a PUA?

 

[Skatologist]

what's a PUA?

An abbreviation for "Pick Up Artist", a person who practices picking up people for sex to the point that it's basically a hobby. Most self described ones are pretty awful human beings.

 

[Inglorious891]

I have to ask what the point of this thread is. Are we supposed to be discussing how men can act in ways that degrade other men? About how most "misandry" (not that it exists in the first place) comes from other men versus women? Hell, even the title of this thread doesn't even hint at any discussion points, so I really don't know what to say in response to OP. A lot of men make fun of other men for not being masculine, ok, yeah it happens. What about it? Are you saying it just to say it? All I'm really seeing from this thread are a couple of excruciatingly cringeworthy articles written by guys who have some serious issues with insercurity, not a discussion.

 

[Jux]

I have to ask what the point of this thread is. Are we supposed to be discussing how men can act in ways that degrade other men?

You mean men upholding rigid and often unhealthy ideas of what masculinity entails? Yea, thats part of it.

About how most "misandry" (not that it exists in the first place) comes from other men versus women?

Well, considering that most of what I hear able alleged man hating supposedly comes from feminists, yea, that is a major point. One could argue that these PUA/dark enlightenment types are an extreme example of toxic masculinity.

Hell, even the title of this thread doesn't even hint at any discussion points, so I really don't know what to say in response to OP.

I aplogize if things were unclear for you. I thought the premise was quite clear; 'misandry' as often as the accusation is lobbed at feminists, is more often found under stereotypical redpill subgroups.

A lot of men make fun of other men for not being masculine, ok, yeah it happens. What about it? Are you saying it just to say it? All I'm really seeing from this thread are a couple of excruciatingly cringeworthy articles written by guys who have some serious issues with insercurity, not a discussion.

Unfortunate that you don't see the discussion value that I do, but everyone has their own opinion.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Some men perpetuate unhealthy and harmful gender stereotypes for men, some women perpetuate unhealthy and harmful gender stereotypes for women.


The opposite is also true.

People also like to lay blame at a door that isn't their own.

Basically, we're all just awful.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The usual one that is pointed out by feminists is the assumption that nothing can be done about rape, that men are just naturally going to want to rape women, that men can't resist raping women if she wears the wrong things.

That's about as man-hating as you can get.

 

[The Lunatic]

An abbreviation for "Pick Up Artist", a person who practices picking up people for sex to the point that it's basically a hobby. Most self described ones are pretty awful human beings.

Little prejudice, don't you think?




Honestly, the quote comes across more as "Misanthropic" than "Misanderist", it sounds like he dislikes society and the way humans de-construct each other from a single glance of meeting.

To focus on gender, I think is missing the point entirely, it's a comment about humanity and how shallow and vapid we've all become, or perhaps more specifically the type of people that surround him.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

An abbreviation for "Pick Up Artist", a person who practices picking up people for sex to the point that it's basically a hobby. Most self described ones are pretty awful human beings.

Little prejudice, don't you think?




Honestly, the quote comes across more as "Misanthropic" than "Misanderist", it sounds like he dislikes society and the way humans de-construct each other from a single glance of meeting.

To focus on gender, I think is missing the point entirely, it's a comment about humanity and how shallow and vapid we've all become, or perhaps more specifically the type of people that surround him.

The issue is it is HE who views it this way, and is in no way an actual reflection of the people who are around him. This exists in his mind, that does not mean in any way it is a reality shared by those he encounters.

I personally have never had a man come even close to being able to guess what I was thinking.. Men and women think completely different, not only in the way their brains actually work, but usually in the conclusions they draw as well.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/269652.php

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ

 

[The Lunatic]

The issue is it is HE who views it this way, and is in no way an actual reflection of the people who are around him. This exists in his mind, that does not mean in any way it is a reality shared by those he encounters.

I personally have never had a man come even close to being able to guess what I was thinking.. Men and women think completely different, not only in the way their brains actually work, but usually in the conclusions they draw as well.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/269652.php

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ

So, the issue is that he has an opinion?

It's a commentary, not an in-depth assessment of all those around him.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

The issue is it is HE who views it this way, and is in no way an actual reflection of the people who are around him. This exists in his mind, that does not mean in any way it is a reality shared by those he encounters.

I personally have never had a man come even close to being able to guess what I was thinking.. Men and women think completely different, not only in the way their brains actually work, but usually in the conclusions they draw as well.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/269652.php

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ

So, the issue is that he has an opinion?

It's a commentary, not an in-depth assessment of all those around him.

He has a low opinion of men and women. From his opinion, he is both a Misogynist and Misandrist due to how he views both men and women. The idea that he imagines people viewing him this way is holding a very low opinion of both men and women. The reality is this only exists in his mind, and he has no idea how each of these individual women have viewed him. His opinion has no basis in reality, it is so clouded with his low view of both men and women that he could not even begin to imagine what these individuals have thought when interacting with him. His poor view of men and women would also greatly impact how others interact with him as well as this toxic outlook would make those around him distance themselves from him due to how this type of outlook and behavior is considered to be unhealthy and not something people generally want to be around.

It was you that said this was an assessment of those around him:

" it's a comment about humanity and how shallow and vapid we've all become, or perhaps more specifically the type of people that surround him."

"Opinions" about what you think others are thinking are just guesses, they can be shown to be right or wrong simply by asking the person what they are thinking.

 

[THM]

The usual one that is pointed out by feminists is the assumption that nothing can be done about rape, that men are just naturally going to want to rape women, that men can't resist raping women if she wears the wrong things.

That's about as man-hating as you can get.

Absolutely; if tarring every man with the 'rapist' brush isn't the textbook example of misandry, then perhaps it doesn't exist - but that example exists, and so does misandry. Maybe -maybe - it isn't quite the cultural plague that some MRA sites make it out to be, but yeah, Jux, it's a thing.

(Not to mention stuff like 'manspreading', no-boys-allowed STEM-career days at schools, etc.)

 

[Thaluikhain]

The usual one that is pointed out by feminists is the assumption that nothing can be done about rape, that men are just naturally going to want to rape women, that men can't resist raping women if she wears the wrong things.

That's about as man-hating as you can get.

Absolutely; if tarring every man with the 'rapist' brush isn't the textbook example of misandry, then perhaps it doesn't exist - but that example exists, and so does misandry. Maybe -maybe - it isn't quite the cultural plague that some MRA sites make it out to be, but yeah, Jux, it's a thing.

Er...it's not feminists usually making that assumption, though, it's coming, as Jux said, from the other direction.

 

[THM]

Er...it's not feminists usually making that assumption, though, it's coming, as Jux said, from the other direction.

Possibly, though I think it would also depend on what feminists you choose to focus on. If it was true, you'd have to question as to why (and talk about stuff like White Knights). Not to mention, talk about the idea of a lot of misogyny coming from other women. Fair's fair, after all.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Fucking hell. Over the years, I've went from radical feminist to liberal feminist to renouncing the label to picking it back up again. I've looked into the PUA mentality while single once out of curiosity and became repulsed with what I read. I've looked into MRA websites expecting the same thing very recently and became quite surprised that it was nothing like the PUA scene. After reading actual MRA disertation directly, as opposed to third party sources (cough cough wikipedia cough), I came to this conclusion:

* Feminism without MRA is an ignorant incomplete movement and vice versa.

Sexism does not exist in a vacuum and outdated gender roles affect everybody. I begun to ask myself for every feminist topic if it's a woman issue or a person issue; can it affect a man and how; what is the other gender's equivalent to the problem; etc. This brings me to the OT:

Women do this too. A lot. The only difference is because it's so much easier for them to be a PUAs they don't need a discussion page. Shitty people whom use others, especially for sex, will always exist. They have always been shitty misogynists/misandrists whom hold distorted viewpoints on the other gender. This is not news.

 

[lacktheknack]

For all the scaremongering about 'misandric' feminists, I think people are looking in the wrong direction. There is plenty of misandry out there, I just think most of it is coming from other men.

I could agree with this.

Every time another guy comments about how "all guys just wanna bang", which is a ludicrously common sentiment, I want to break my face on a wall. Am I not going to get a LITTLE bit of credit, or am I doomed to be as annoying and gross as they are just because I'm a male? No one cares when I bring it up, though, so either it's a much bigger problem than expected, or I'm just crazy.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

The usual one that is pointed out by feminists is the assumption that nothing can be done about rape, that men are just naturally going to want to rape women, that men can't resist raping women if she wears the wrong things.

That's about as man-hating as you can get.

Absolutely; if tarring every man with the 'rapist' brush isn't the textbook example of misandry, then perhaps it doesn't exist - but that example exists, and so does misandry. Maybe -maybe - it isn't quite the cultural plague that some MRA sites make it out to be, but yeah, Jux, it's a thing.

(Not to mention stuff like 'manspreading', no-boys-allowed STEM-career days at schools, etc.)

Wait wait wait, is there really a no boys allowed STEM career thing at schools (I'm assuming you mean Science Technology Engineer and Mathematics). I would have thrown 18 kinds of shit storms if that was a thing mostly cause as a kid I would have LOVED to been a part of stuff like that. Also what is the point of self segregating people like that, when unless it's a one gender company somewhere that will not be the case in the real world? I do get that it's important to show case that science fields is not just white men (even though I get tired of people covering events saying "Look a 'insertNoneWhitePerson()' on stage isn't that great?").