Modern Gaming Sucks!!! Or Does It?

BrawlMan

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I know some people on this board complained about parries appearing in "too many" action games or just thrown in there. While you have some points, parrying has always been around and resurged in other games at some point or another. Not just because of Sekiro, Dark Souls, Ni-Oh or whatever else afterward did it.

Crash course: parrying or counter attacking was something that usually stayed in fighting games. Parry (Street Fighter 3: Third Strike), Just Defend (Garou: Mark of the Wolves), Alpha Counters (Street Fighter Alpha), Crossover Counters (Marvel vs. Capcom), etc. Obviously, they didn't stay that way, and mechanics such as these found their way into 3D Action games of the Stylish Action variety. Devil May Cry 1 has a simple parry system of either knocking projectiles back or attacking an enemy at the right time to knock them into a stun. DMC3 took this further with the melee parry and Royal Guard being the fighting stance that is 3rd Strike style. Istuno would perfect this further with DMC4 and DMC5. DmC (2013) went with a more simplified parry mechanic, but could still be challenging, but is the easiest to master of the franchise.

Getting ahead of myself, there plenty of games that did parries before back in the 6th generation of consoles. Hell, even in the 5th generation with certain RPGs or Action RPGs from the Japanese side. When the Stylish Action genre took off or pre-taking off you had games like Ninja Gaiden (2004), God of War (2005), and Onimusha (this game came out before all of those and DMC) have advanced or hidden block/parry mechanics. All of them function differently, with GoW (2005), being the easiest to perform by comparison. There were plenty of other games: Bujingai: The Forsaken City, both Otogi games, Samurai Western, and a bunch of mid budget PS2 action games had parry/counter mechanics of their own that worked to varying degrees of success. Even Dynasty Warriors and its various spin-offs have block/parry mechanics since the DW3.

Many a God of War clones from the late 6th generation and most of the 7th generation have parry mechanics ripped straight from he Greek GoW era. With the only differnce being easier or simpler to pull off compared to the OG. Shaolin Monks, Conan, Wolverine: Uncaged Edition, Darksiders I & II, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 1 & 2, etc. In No More Heroes (2007), Travis has a hidden counter attack called Dark Step that works almost like Bayonetta's Witch Time, though the latter wasn't even close to out yet. Grasshopper and Suda51 would take Dark Stepping further and modified in later sequels or even differenct action games of theirs.

Bayonetta has a parry, but you need to buy it in order to use the Moon of Khala. Equip and flick the right stick in the direction of the incoming attack. Do a perfect parry, and you get extra witch time. It works like Royal Guard, except it's not a stance and is an item you have to buy with Halos.

Now Metal Gear Rising is where the big parry inspiration started. It wasn't imediate, and Platinum were the only kids chasing themsleves copying it. Legend of Korra and Transformers Devastation both say hello from the Platinum moutains! Then Sekiro and Ni-Oh happened. Though Demon Souls and Dark Souls already had unique parry systems of their own. The only thing new Sekiro brought to the table was it being the first to copy Rising's parry and be near indentical, while Ni-Oh's parry functioned like an advanced version of Ninja Gaiden's parry.

While it is true there are good amount more of 3D action games with parry/counter mechanics, compared to the past, the trend really hasn't changed too much. The only difference being is the parry mechanic isn't as experimental as it was back in the 6th or 7th generation. Though that is not a bad thing. I've noticed Western developers tend to mess up making parry mechanics more than Japanese or games developed in Asian territories, but either latter can mess up too. Not every game needs to be a "PARRY OR DIE!" fest, but at the same time, it's not the end of the world when a game has a parry mechanic or an easy to learn skill. If you're not into those, or want a game that does it properly. Go for it, but there always something different and non-parry focues out in the gaming world.
 
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FakeSympathy

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How about the fact that gaming has become a luxury hobby?

It has become so expensive to play games nowadays. Those who get to play games should consider themselves extremely lucky (myself included).

Let's take my area for example; Seattle, WA.
  • The average rent cost is just over $2000/mo
    • The alternative is to find a roommate or live with people who doesn't mind you playing games
  • The ISP monthly cost averages around $40-60/mo
  • The elec. bill averages around $160/mo
  • Building a gaming pc seem to cost at least $1400 flat w/ RTX 3070
  • Other options are consoles which seem to cost around $500 for XBSX and PS5, and $400 for regular Nintendo Switch
    • And these consoles also charges subscription for the online service
And this doesn't even cover the actual game costs, the in-game subscription for MMOs (seriously, that must suck for console players), and in-game purchases you might make. No wonder why f2p games and mobile gaming market has grown to insane amount, although that seems to trick people into spending tons of money in-game.

Granted, almost all hobbies cost you something, but man looking at these numbers really stress me about my future. As a man in his early 30s, I can't afford too much on gaming.

I guess we can always be smart about how much we spend in gaming, but does spending less indicate it's something we don't enjoy as much as before? Doesn't help the fact that fewer exciting titles seems to be released every year
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
How about the fact that gaming has become a luxury hobby?

It has become so expensive to play games nowadays. Those who get to play games should consider themselves extremely lucky (myself included).

Let's take my area for example; Seattle, WA.
  • The average rent cost is just over $2000/mo
    • The alternative is to find a roommate or live with people who doesn't mind you playing games
  • The ISP monthly cost averages around $40-60/mo
  • The elec. bill averages around $160/mo
  • Building a gaming pc seem to cost at least $1400 flat w/ RTX 3070
  • Other options are consoles which seem to cost around $500 for XBSX and PS5, and $400 for regular Nintendo Switch
    • And these consoles also charges subscription for the online service
And this doesn't even cover the actual game costs, the in-game subscription for MMOs (seriously, that must suck for console players), and in-game purchases you might make. No wonder why f2p games and mobile gaming market has grown to insane amount, although that seems to trick people into spending tons of money in-game.

Granted, almost all hobbies cost you something, but man looking at these numbers really stress me about my future. As a man in his early 30s, I can't afford too much on gaming.

I guess we can always be smart about how much we spend in gaming, but does spending less indicate it's something we don't enjoy as much as before? Doesn't help the fact that fewer exciting titles seems to be released every year
Except that you don't need a $1400 pc to play games. A steam deck runs $400 to $650 and consoles are around that amount also, aside from Sony's newest fing. Even if you want a gaming desktop, you can get a cheaper one and make it work, especially with ai upscaling, it really does boost performance. If you want to just play indie games you can go much cheaper then that also.

How many mmos with a monthly sub can you think of coming out nowadays? We are in the era of the live service game where the gameplay is free but if you don't want to look like a pleb, you need to buy a battle pass or at least skins.
 

Chimpzy

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Gaming has always been a luxury hobby. While the cost of hardware and games has gone up, I'd say it largely feels like gaming has become so expensive because everything else has also gotten even more expensive while wages have largely stagnated, so you don't have the disposable income you once had i.e you're now actually feeling that cost. But that really only applies to the US, parts of Europe and maybe Japan. In most of the rest of the world it's basically always been that way.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Gaming has always been a luxury hobby. While the cost of hardware and games has gone up, I'd say it largely feels like gaming has become so expensive because everything else has also gotten even more expensive while wages have largely stagnated, so you don't have the disposable income you once had i.e you're now actually feeling that cost. But that really only applies to the US, parts of Europe and maybe Japan. In most of the rest of the world it's basically always been that way.
Except wages aren't really stagnant. For the last couple years they have been pretty stedily growing at 4-5% and that out paces inflation.
Americans, especially the lower income are making more money then ever. The problem is that now we have much more chipping away at that then we had in previous generations. We have cell phone, subscription services, easy food delivery, etc etc.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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I know some people on this board complained about parries appearing in "too many" action games or just thrown in there. While you have some points, parrying has always been around and resurged in other games at some point or another. Not just because of Sekiro, Dark Souls, Ni-Oh or whatever else afterward did it.

Crash course: parrying or counter attacking was something that usually stayed in fighting games. Parry (Street Fighter 3: Third Strike), Just Defend (Garou: Mark of the Wolves), Alpha Counters (Street Fighter Alpha), Crossover Counters (Marvel vs. Capcom), etc. Obviously, they didn't stay that way, and mechanics such as these found their way into 3D Action games of the Stylish Action variety. Devil May Cry 1 has a simple parry system of either knocking projectiles back or attacking an enemy at the right time to knock them into a stun. DMC3 took this further with the melee parry and Royal Guard being the fighting stance that is 3rd Strike style. Istuno would perfect this further with DMC4 and DMC5. DmC (2013) went with a more simplified parry mechanic, but could still be challenging, but is the easiest to master of the franchise.

Getting ahead of myself, there plenty of games that did parries before back in the 6th generation of consoles. Hell, even in the 5th generation with certain RPGs or Action RPGs from the Japanese side. When the Stylish Action genre took off or pre-taking off you had games like Ninja Gaiden (2004), God of War (2005), and Onimusha (this game came out before all of those and DMC) have advanced or hidden block/parry mechanics. All of them function differently, with GoW (2005), being the easiest to perform by comparison. There were plenty of other games: Bujingai: The Forsaken City, both Otogi games, Samurai Western, and a bunch of mid budget PS2 action games had parry/counter mechanics of their own that worked to varying degrees of success. Even Dynasty Warriors and its various spin-offs have block/parry mechanics since the DW3.

Many a God of War clones from the late 6th generation and most of the 7th generation have parry mechanics ripped straight from he Greek GoW era. With the only differnce being easier or simpler to pull off compared to the OG. Shaolin Monks, Conan, Wolverine: Uncaged Edition, Darksiders I & II, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 1 & 2, etc. In No More Heroes (2007), Travis has a hidden counter attack called Dark Step that works almost like Bayonetta's Witch Time, though the latter wasn't even close to out yet. Grasshopper and Suda51 would take Dark Stepping further and modified in later sequels or even differenct action games of theirs.

Bayonetta has a parry, but you need to buy it in order to use the Moon of Khala. Equip and flick the right stick in the direction of the incoming attack. Do a perfect parry, and you get extra witch time. It works like Royal Guard, except it's not a stance and is an item you have to buy with Halos.

Now Metal Gear Rising is where the big parry inspiration started. It wasn't imediate, and Platinum were the only kids chasing themsleves copying it. Legend of Korra and Transformers Devastation both say hello from the Platinum moutains! Then Sekiro and Ni-Oh happened. Though Demon Souls and Dark Souls already had unique parry systems of their own. The only thing new Sekiro brought to the table was it being the first to copy Rising's parry and be near indentical, while Ni-Oh's parry functioned like an advanced version of Ninja Gaiden's parry.

While it is true there are good amount more of 3D action games with parry/counter mechanics, compared to the past, the trend really hasn't changed too much. The only difference being is the parry mechanic isn't as experimental as it was back in the 6th or 7th generation. Though that is not a bad thing. I've noticed Western developers tend to mess up making parry mechanics more than Japanese or games developed in Asian territories, but either latter can mess up too. Not every game needs to be a "PARRY OR DIE!" fest, but at the same time, it's not the end of the world when a game has a parry mechanic or an easy to learn skill. If you're not into those, or want a game that does it properly. Go for it, but there always something different and non-parry focues out in the gaming world.
Well ok... but there's a difference between parrying "always being around" to it being the core mechanic in action games. It's about scale.
Or at least it's my perception and even if I'm mathematically wrong about how much % of parrying moves per hours of play or whatever I just have noticed that since Sekiro, any action game I'm interested in now has some kind of parrying as being essential to success. And more importantly- that it's implemented poorly. Or at least in a way I don't like.

But don't worry, parrying is no longer at the top of my list of what gets me into a "modern gaming sucks" reverie these days.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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Re: cost: here's where I'll be the guy that reminds everyone that most gaming is mobile, which is either cheap or super-duper expensive for those that get caught in a mtx loop.

I also do think it's possible to game cheap if one is into single player games- I'm guessing you can find a cheap console on ebay from a previous gen and some discs or whatever. Used Switches go for like $200 on ebay and that is still technically current gen.

As for the other stuff y'all starting posting about non-gaming costs and wages... it's way out of topic to get into politics and economics but it's easy to cherry-pick stats to make whatever point you want.
 
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BrawlMan

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Well ok... but there's a difference between parrying "always being around" to it being the core mechanic in action games. It's about scale.
I did mention the scale and how more 3d action games are doing it, but it's still not by much.


just have noticed that since Sekiro, any action game I'm interested in now has some kind of parrying as being essential to success. And more importantly- that it's implemented poorly. Or at least in a way I don't like.
Evil West, both Norse GoWs, and Oneechanbara Origin you can actually get through mostly fine without parrying. Though it's recommended on the Mud Zombies in Oneechanbara Origin. There are still plenty of 2d and 3d action games that don't emphasize on parrying or lack it.

And more importantly- that it's implemented poorly.
Some do, others don't. Nothing has changed much as that's what happened back then.

at least in a way I don't like.
Depends on the game.

But don't worry, parrying is no longer at the top of my list of what gets me into a "modern gaming sucks" reverie these days.
Good. You and I have much bigger concerns, though they may be different.
 

Bedinsis

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How about the fact that high-end gaming has become is a luxury hobby?
Fixed that for you. What with Epic give-aways and countless sales and several subscription services there are plenty of options to access video games for more affordable prices. The sticking point is that they might not be top of the line by the time you get your hands on them but at that point the graphics card is a lot more affordable.
 

Silvanus

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Except wages aren't really stagnant. For the last couple years they have been pretty stedily growing at 4-5% and that out paces inflation.
Perhaps in the US. Here in the UK, wages have absolutely not kept up with the cost of living.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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How about the fact that gaming has become a luxury hobby?

It has become so expensive to play games nowadays. Those who get to play games should consider themselves extremely lucky (myself included).

Let's take my area for example; Seattle, WA.
  • The average rent cost is just over $2000/mo
    • The alternative is to find a roommate or live with people who doesn't mind you playing games
  • The ISP monthly cost averages around $40-60/mo
  • The elec. bill averages around $160/mo
  • Building a gaming pc seem to cost at least $1400 flat w/ RTX 3070
  • Other options are consoles which seem to cost around $500 for XBSX and PS5, and $400 for regular Nintendo Switch
    • And these consoles also charges subscription for the online service
And this doesn't even cover the actual game costs, the in-game subscription for MMOs (seriously, that must suck for console players), and in-game purchases you might make. No wonder why f2p games and mobile gaming market has grown to insane amount, although that seems to trick people into spending tons of money in-game.

Granted, almost all hobbies cost you something, but man looking at these numbers really stress me about my future. As a man in his early 30s, I can't afford too much on gaming.

I guess we can always be smart about how much we spend in gaming, but does spending less indicate it's something we don't enjoy as much as before? Doesn't help the fact that fewer exciting titles seems to be released every year
Video gaming is a cheap as hell hobby. You have a console that cost $500 and it lasts at least 5 years (I think like 7 years is the cycle now) so that's like $8/month on the 5 year time span. Games are super cheap if you resell them. When I was gaming a lot in my life, games were $60 (I know they are $70 now), I played a game for a month or 2 depending on the game length and then sold them on eBay for like $40. So it cost say $20/month (I'll up it to $30/month just cuz) for the game portion. So that's like $40/month to game. Also, all the good games nowadays aren't AAA so they are like $20 or so new, but they are usually digital and can't resell like a physical disc. Yeah, that's not counting the Internet or electricity but you already need Internet and electricity so that's not all gaming obviously. Going to the movies once a week is more expensive than gaming.
 

Phoenixmgs

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The problem is that now we have much more chipping away at that then we had in previous generations. We have cell phone, subscription services, easy food delivery, etc etc.
Cell phone is probably cheaper than a land line was back in the day; land lines are really expensive now because they make them really expensive so everyone switches off of them and they don't have to maintain them anymore. My cell phone is a Moto G52 that costs $160, it'll last at least 3 years so that's essentially like $5/month, my T-Mobile cell phone bill is $15/month; that's only $20/month for a cell phone. With my job, my cell phone is now basically -$80/month because I get $100/month towards my cell phone for use with my job.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Cell phone is probably cheaper than a land line was back in the day; land lines are really expensive now because they make them really expensive so everyone switches off of them and they don't have to maintain them anymore. My cell phone is a Moto G52 that costs $160, it'll last at least 3 years so that's essentially like $5/month, my T-Mobile cell phone bill is $15/month; that's only $20/month for a cell phone. With my job, my cell phone is now basically -$80/month because I get $100/month towards my cell phone for use with my job.
I think it depended on how much you used the phone. In the 80s I think the landline for local calls tended to be about $10 or $20 a month, depending on where you lived, but long distance calls would really balloon a bill.

According to yahoo finance
"Landline Phone Bills (and Long-Distance Fees)
In today’s society, it is common for everyone to have their own mobile phone, but before this was the case, landlines were essential within every home.

Post-WWII, in 1945, it was common for five people in a household to share one landline. Throughout the ’80s, AT&T was monopolizing the communication business and nearly every American household was an AT&T customer and rented their phone from the company for $1.50 to $5 per month.

In 1993, the government ended AT&T’s monopoly and allowed people to own their own phones. Dial phones cost around $19.95, which is the equivalent of $50 in today’s money, according to The New York Times.


Most phone companies charged landline and long-distance fees by the time of day and how many minutes the call lasted. In 1997, there were categories of plans that went from $10 per month up to $25 per month. For AT&T users with an under $10 plan, every call cost 15 cents per minute, according to a 1997 publication in Consumeraction. In other words, people with this plan had up to 66 minutes of daytime phone time per month. For those who required more talk time, they could pick plans with a higher monthly limit and could choose a plan with lower prices during the time of day they used the phone the most.

While in the 1910s long-distance phone calls had astronomical prices, prices gradually stooped so low by the late ’90s that the federal communications commission no longer tracked long-distance phone calls.

In 2018, a government survey found that a mere 5% of households relied entirely on a landline, and over half of survey participants relied on cellphones exclusively."

 
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Phoenixmgs

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I think it depended on how much you used the phone. In the 80s I think the landline for local calls tended to be about $10 or $20 a month, depending on where you lived, but long distance calls would really balloon a bill.

According to yahoo finance
"Landline Phone Bills (and Long-Distance Fees)
In today’s society, it is common for everyone to have their own mobile phone, but before this was the case, landlines were essential within every home.

Post-WWII, in 1945, it was common for five people in a household to share one landline. Throughout the ’80s, AT&T was monopolizing the communication business and nearly every American household was an AT&T customer and rented their phone from the company for $1.50 to $5 per month.

In 1993, the government ended AT&T’s monopoly and allowed people to own their own phones. Dial phones cost around $19.95, which is the equivalent of $50 in today’s money, according to The New York Times.


Most phone companies charged landline and long-distance fees by the time of day and how many minutes the call lasted. In 1997, there were categories of plans that went from $10 per month up to $25 per month. For AT&T users with an under $10 plan, every call cost 15 cents per minute, according to a 1997 publication in Consumeraction. In other words, people with this plan had up to 66 minutes of daytime phone time per month. For those who required more talk time, they could pick plans with a higher monthly limit and could choose a plan with lower prices during the time of day they used the phone the most.

While in the 1910s long-distance phone calls had astronomical prices, prices gradually stooped so low by the late ’90s that the federal communications commission no longer tracked long-distance phone calls.

In 2018, a government survey found that a mere 5% of households relied entirely on a landline, and over half of survey participants relied on cellphones exclusively."

Especially if you adjust for inflation, you can have a cell phone cheaper than what a land line was. Households sharing a line is a thing people don't do with cell phones; though, that might have more to do with the personal nature of smart phones and the internet aspect of being signed into accounts and whatnot. I recall my mom having to pay like $50/month (and I think she had some senior discount too) for her land line a few years back before I had her finally switch to a cell phone, she's very opposed to change.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Especially if you adjust for inflation, you can have a cell phone cheaper than what a land line was. Households sharing a line is a thing people don't do with cell phones; though, that might have more to do with the personal nature of smart phones and the internet aspect of being signed into accounts and whatnot. I recall my mom having to pay like $50/month (and I think she had some senior discount too) for her land line a few years back before I had her finally switch to a cell phone, she's very opposed to change.
This is really only one aspect though. Like, in the 80s you have phone, car, house/rent, utilities, groceries, maybe a magazine subscription. Cable existed but it was uncommon. Today you have the same, but add in subscriptions for games/software/services, streaming/music services, internet, used to have data plans for phones, but today that tends to be wrapped into the phone bill with unlimited data, etc. Today there are a lot more things trying to nickel and dime you and it adds up, or at least it feels like it adds up. We will always remember how things used to be, you might be making 4 time as much as you used too, but when you see a gallon of milk for $5 (thanks whole foods) you will remember when it was $1.50. (Assuming you are the right age.) And it will never feel right.
 
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Ezekiel

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No, it really sucks. Far too much cowardice. Finished only old games last year and feel good about it. Expect this year to be mostly more of the same. It's the money and the investors. Games got too big. No fixing it.
 
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No, it really sucks. Far too much cowardice. Finished only old games last year and feel good about it. Expect this year to be mostly more of the same. It's the money and the investors. Games got too big. No fixing it.
That part will fix itself eventually. The rest will continue on as usual (cheaper Indie, AA, etc.)
 

Ezekiel

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For every Anthem, there is a Jedi Fallen Order.
Have no idea what people see in Fallen Order, aside from the nostalgia bait, with Vader who's been made lame and the tired safe spot around original trilogy. The Dark Souls level design doesn't fit Star Wars, because Star Wars is more real than Dark Souls, the people I mean, the dialogue, and the chests are wasted on cosmetics anyway. Fun slides don't help either.



I could pull a better fighting system out of my ass.