Mojang and Bethesda Are Going to Court

Ninjafire72

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Feb 27, 2011
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Xman490 said:
I'm not buying Skyrim. EVER. AND NO FALLOUT EITHER.
(This is partly because I'm not okay with Bethesda and I'm not okay with its first-person games.)
To all people planning to not buy elder scrolls and boycot Bethesda: don't do it. As ridculous as this case is, games like Fallout and Skyrims are great games and boycotting games THAT ARE ACTUALLY GOOD (and therefore aren't money-squeezing piles of crap) isn't helping anyone. Besides, like people before me have said it's the Bethesda publisher who are being dicks, not the Bethesda game studio.

Hate the publisher, not the developer. ^_^
 

Calbeck

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Jul 13, 2008
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Andy Chalk said:
According to Kaplan, Bethesda's lawyers plan to use user comments about Scrolls videos, articles about the game and even screen shots to prove that gamers are likely to confuse Scrolls with the Elder Scrolls franchise.
I don't know how the Swedish courts work, but it sounds like Bethesda is trying to argue that "a reasonable person" could be expected to confuse the two titles merely by inclusion of the same common English word in each.

If so, it's easily defeated by requiring Bethesda to prove that it obtained these confused statements from reasonable people. -:D
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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scrolls is too common a word to be copyrighted. Just like teriminator lost lawsuit agaisnt asylum for making a title called "the terminators" because it was ruled that word "terminator" cannot be copyrighted. this wont really go anywhere for bethesda. Well it wont unless Mojang really just pagiarized the game, i dont know since i havent played it.
 

Dimitriov

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May 24, 2010
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People use your heads. Bethesda is not so much claiming a copyright on the word "Scrolls" as they are merely wondering why Mojang would just happen to announce a game with that incredibly generic name at the same time Bethesda is marketing the release of a new Elder Scrolls game. As am I.

Is Bethesda being pissy about it? yes.

Do the facts suggest that Mojang may well be doing exactly what they are being accused of? Also yes.


I for one hope that the courts rule a name change IS warranted for "Scrolls" but that no monetary compensation should be awarded.
 

Astoria

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Oct 25, 2010
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This is so stupid. People don't refer to the new game as Elder Scrolls 5 they just say Skyrim. They won't get confused. Why is Bethesda being so petty? Even for a big company this is pathetic.
 

Sinisterair

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Radoh said:
Okay first things first, Bethesda are kind of needed to do this to protect against future cases. It is simply the way this works, if you go back and watch that Escapist Podcast about this they explain it quite well.

Still though, it's too bad they denied Notch his Courtroom Deathmatch idea, that would have been really fun.

Captcha: Everybody iarinc. Quickly everyone, Iarinc!

This....A thousand times this! Im actually becoming sick of the whole "GRAWRRRRRR NOTCH IS BEING SUED BY BETHSOFT?? THEY'RE JUST ASSHOLES!" Its actually very simple....Bethsoft isn't suing. The legal Dept of Bethesda Softworks Inc. Is suing Mojang. Bethesda Softworks is NOT the game developer portion of Bethesda its merely the heads and Ceos who run the company such as the legal dept and whatnot. And if they dont sue then multiple other game devs could use more "elder scroll" Like names and Bethsoft could eventually lose the whole right to the name. so its understandable they'd atleast want to try and save the name rights
 

Get_A_Grip_

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This lawduit is completley absurd. Imagine if Polyphony Digital and Rockstar went to court because Gran and Grand sound similar.
 

Dimitriov

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May 24, 2010
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RealDarkelfguy said:
*sigh* Here we go again. Another news story about the "Bethesda vs Mojang" trademark dispute, and suddenly people get all worked up with "Anti-Bethesda" hysteria and saying they have no case without even bothering to research trademark law or, heaven forbid, the actual trademarks related to this dispute. And once more, people seem to be blindly latching on to the concept that Notch and crew are somehow victims in this whole mess. Now there's a lot more to this whole issue than the rather narrow-minded view that "Notch is right, Bethesda is wrong and being bullies" that a lot of people seem to have adopted of late. Like everything else in this world, this trademark dispute is hardly so black and white. Let's examine the facts of the issue in detail before passing judgement on either party.

First of all, the way trademark law works is once you register a trademark, you have to defend it against any and all threats or risk losing it (and this has been mentioned several times now). This doesn't mean that one company gets to use that trademark exclusively though. Different companies can hold the same trademark (well, the same trademarked word at least) for different products. For example, you're probably familiar with Id Software's trademark on "Rage", but this trademark can co-exist with other "Rage" trademarks like the "Rage" trademark on motor-scooters and another "Rage" trademark on pesticides (fun fact: there's over 30 different trademarks on the word "Rage"). You see trademark disputes when a company owns a trademark and another company tries to register a similar trademark for the same product type (in this case it's computer games). That by itself isn't necessarily enough to pursue trademark infringement (unless you're Tim Langdell), you also have to establish a case for similarity. With "The Elder Scrolls" and "Scrolls" the similarities should be apparent to anyone who has actually looked up the two games. They're both fantasy themed and they both appear to have RPG-like elements to them. That right there is enough to establish trademark infringement for most legal courts, so Bethesda does have a fairly decent case. And again, as stated at the start of this paragraph, if Bethesda didn't take any legal action to this threat to their trademark, it could cause them to lose "The Elder Scrolls" later on.

*Please note that when I say that "Scrolls" and "The Elder Scrolls" have notable similarities, I'm talking about the kind of similarities that will determine the outcome of the case in court. Obviously "Scrolls" and "The Elder Scrolls" are two very different games and have few actual gameplay similarities. As gamers, we all know that, but we're talking about trademark similarities with a court of law, not a court of gamers. Tim Langdell got away with his whole "Edge" trademark trolling with far less, he didn't even have an argument for similarities other than they were games.*

Furthermore, it's important to consider that trademark disputes are not rare, in fact, they're fairly common. Although it must be admitted that most trademark disputes are not revealed to the public (or gather much media attention), much less announced on Twitter. Besides the Tim Langdell cases and this one, how many trademark disputes has anyone actually heard about? Not many, I'd gather. What is rather unique about this case is that it's actually going to court, as usually the two parties in a trademark dispute settle matters outside of the courtroom.

And, if you're still having doubts about the legitimacy of Bethesda's case, here's a quote from a legal expert interviewed by Wired.com last month.

" Attorney and game industry analyst Mark Methenitis told Wired.com that the publisher was just doing what any prudent trademark holder would normally do.

"The basic question here is whether the two trademarks are likely to be confused," Methenitis said in an e-mail. "There's a pretty well-established test for this under U.S. trademark law, and based on those factors, Bethesda has a reasonable argument." "

Source: http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/08/minecraft-bethesda-lawsuit/

Finally, before you jump to take Notch's side in this issue, you should know the specifics of his "Scrolls" trademark. I took the liberty of looking it up on the Electronic Trademark Database and it's pretty surprising. It's not just a trademark on computer-games. Notch's trademark for the word "Scrolls" includes clothing (of all types, including t-shirts), hardware platforms, boardgames, toys, hand-helds, and traditional card games. This means that Bethesda's case against Mojang may not be the last court battle Notch will have to face over this, as his trademark clearly violates the trademarks of other companies (such as the Scrolls Clothing Company, which owns the trademark of "Scrolls" for t-shirts). The sheer broadness of Notch's "Scrolls" trademark is rather astounding, as most companies specify one thing for a trademark and make additional trademark registrations for additional products (for example, Bethesda has 6 separate trademarks on "The Elder Scrolls", covering everything from clothing to their forums, but each trademark covers only one thing). I imagine this is usually done in order to avoid large-scale trademark infringements.

Furthermore, just because you make a game doesn't mean you have to register a trademark for it! The vast majority of indie games DO NOT have trademarks! It's not a legal requirement in the slightest, and Notch could keep the name of his game as "Scrolls" if he dropped the trademark. Heck, I imagine there wouldn't be much of a legal issue if he had trademarked a full title like "Scrolls: The Card Game" or anything a little more complicated than just "Scrolls".

If you're interested in doing a bit of research on this subject, I encourage you to look up the trademarks that are involved. You can find Notch's trademark (and pretty much every other trademark ever registered) at this website: http://tess2.uspto.gov/
Good info here, thanks for posting this :D

I only hope some of the more knee-jerk people will take the time to read it...
 

harvz

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Jun 20, 2010
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i havent heard the elders scrolls series being referred to as "scrolls", only by the games name (eg, oblivion, skyrim, etc).
 

A Distant Star

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Feb 15, 2008
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I am really starting to dislike Bethesda.

And to think... I was beginning to rethink my boycott of there products.
 

Poster1234

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Apr 26, 2011
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Hahaha.
This is absurd!
I mean, seriously ?
Bethesda doesn't have any kind of a case : it's as if, say, those "edge" guys I used to hear about tried to sue the guys making "Soul Edge"!
Haha...
Oh. I see. What a lovely world we live in.

Ok, seriously now : I love Bethesda as a developper : they are among the greatest. The problem is, they seem to have a problem with anyone else who wants to be a dev too. These guys need to understand that people can't go on with one elder scrolls title every 5 years. Sure, these are good games, but sometimes along those 5 years, you'll want to play something else.
 

Asuka Soryu

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Jun 11, 2010
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You know, you always hear about frivulous lawsuits that sound rediculously stupid, but it's always nice to witness one happening from a company.
 

Wado Rhyu

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May 19, 2010
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i would understand if Wizards of the Caost ( makers om Magic ) suide Mojang. because the games look similair. But i geuss the lawyers of Bethesda got nothing to do and sins the are paid anyway the decided to go do this.

a personal geuss would be that a creeper blew up there minecraft office
 

Krantos

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ToastiestZombie said:
I bet Todd Howard and the like were fine with the Quake Match but NO they had to be useful whilst ruining everyone else time!
The Article said the dispute is with Bethesda Softworks which is a different branch of the company than Howard works in (that's Bethesda Game Studios). This is basically a battle with Bethesda the Publisher, not Bethesda the Developer.
 

Wuggy

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Jan 14, 2010
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Bethesda is just being dumb.

And I'm not saying this because I like Mojang over Bethesda. I like Minecraft and I like the Elder's Scrolls series. Hell, if it were Satan being sued here I'd still root for him because it's ridiculous. I see no basis for Bethesda to win here, and I really hope they won't.
 

JoesshittyOs

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Aug 10, 2011
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XT inc said:
I hope Mojang Wins, not because they made minecraft, but Because I think Bethesda are being complete morons and in their own way Insulting consumers intellegence.

Game is callsed Scrolls, Those dumb customers might think its our game and it isn't we better spend a ton on legal fees to sort this out.

The Ironic thing is most people I know, know of the elder scrolls games, and Can Identify them, but they call the game by its subtitle. It isnt The Elderscrolls 3,4 and five it is Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.

Im also excited for scrolls because Apparently Jerry holkins of Penny arcade wrote for it.
I honestly thought that Oblivion was the Oblivion series. I didn't even realize it was part of the Elder Scroll series till I squinted at the box about a year after owning it.
 

Pat8u

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Apr 7, 2011
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wait is this zeni max doing the suing or bethesda cause their different you know
 

orangeapples

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Aug 1, 2009
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I don't know why, but this all reminded me of how stupid some fans can be.

A few years back, there was someone on a forum that just kept wanting to talk about Mewtwo and everyone's response was about pokemon. Then that poster was like, "What are you people talking about? Pokemon sucks. I want to talk about Mewtwo." This really confused everyone. Finally someone asked, "What do you mean by Mewtwo if not the pokemon?" to which the poster responded, "MW2, Modern Warfare 2."

And then there was another time when someone was asking about people's favorite games and someone posted GoW, since this was a Playstation forum everyone started talking about God of War. That person was talking about Gears of War. This person was such a fan of Gears that they were trying to convince the whole forum to accept that GoW was Gears of War and that God of War should use different initials. I'm not sure how it works today, but back then Gears was the commonly accepted shortened form for Gears of War and GoW was used for God of War since God of War came out first.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is a reason why court cases like these don't normally reach the public, we're not nearly as smart as we like to believe we are, and don't really know how the system works. We have our small perception of how it works and believe that everyone thinks the same way.

Now I like Notch and and I like Minecraft, but to announce a court case on twitter, especially for someone of his position; that is pretty low.
 

TheEndlessSleep

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Sep 1, 2010
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josemlopes said:
This is so stupid, everyone knows that Scrolls is Scrolls and that Skyrim is fucking SKYRIM, are they really scared that people will mistake the titles? A lot of people probably just forget "The Elder Scrolls" part of the title and just go with Skyrim (like Morrowind and Oblivion, almost no one says Elder Scrolls 3 or Elder Scrolls 4)
I think it's more to do with Bethesda going 'Ooh, the name of their game is slightly similar to ours. Let's sue them and nab a bit of extra cash.'