Mojang Offered Up Scrolls Trademark, Bethsoft Said "No"

[Danzavare]

Couldn't they just remove "Scrolls" from the title if they really wanted to avoid the problem?

It may just be me, but once someone gets over a million dollars, I kind of struggle to see them as 'the little guy'. I mean without context, I can see how 'scrolls' alongside fantasy character imagery could be mistaken for a Bethesda facebook game or DLC mini-game.

I just don't think Bethesda are being as fiendish as people are making them out to be. (But hey, I don't play Minecraft.)

 

[Cyberjester]

Why, Zenithesda?! Why?!

Perhaps your first reaction may have been appropriate, but this is just... silly.

In the USA, not really. No-one cares about copyright in any other country, so the USA rules are law, and one of those rules states that any company that doesn't take care of it's IP loses said IP. It's a trashy system that's designed to keep lawyers well paid, as best as I can figure out.

So "Scrolls" is enough for Bethseda to be infringing copyright, "Scrolls: x" for instance, is also enough for them to lose their IP if they don't take Mojang to court. If Bethseda decides to let "Scrolls: x" go, then they release a game "Elder Scrolls: y", that's enough for Mojang to take Bethseda to court, or take over the IP. Again, trashy system. Person in the USA owns the copyright to an Aussie song (Waltzing Maltilda), Happy Birthday, and I think someone recently claimed the moon. Bethseda have no choice in the matter if they want to keep The Elder Scrolls.

It's like a restaurant having a yellow and red colour scheme and selling fries and burgers. Or a chocolate company releasing their products in a purple package. Fight to keep your IP or lose it. Sad but true. As someone pointed out, they can't sue them for something that happened in the past, Morrowind would be safe from infringing, for example. But if Bethseda lets it slide then to a well paid lawyer it looks like they're slacking off on protecting their IP so they obviously don't care. I don't think Mojang is big enough to try it, but another company could.

Mojang's trademark application on "Scrolls" is incredibly broad and could potentially put the company in a position to bring legal action against Zenimax/Bethesda over its use of the name in future

...

we offered both to change the name to 'Scrolls: ' and to give up the trademark.

I don't want the name Cadbury, just that distinct (in candy) purple they use. Same thing at the end of the day.

 

[JesterRaiin]

Somehow, each time i hear about Notch's problem with "Scrolls" this thing comes to my mind :


I wonder why.

 

[Kapol]

Gotta love people automatically taking the little guy's side just because he's the 'underdog.' I don't know which side is 'right,' but it's still stupid to see so many people jumping to one side of the argument without knowing both sides. Just like people jumped on Mojang's side when the lawsuit was first announced without thinking about how broad 'Scrolls' as a trademark actually is. It could turn into a situation like that one person with the trademark over the word 'edge.'

Also, I'd like to point out that 'Scrolls: [insert subtitle here]' would still be pretty close to the Elder Scrolls name. In fact, I'd argue it's make it closer and more people would get confused. You have either 'Scrolls: Subtitled Subtitle' or 'The Elder Scrolls 57: Revenge of the Subtitle.' Those seem much closer then just Scrolls, and would likely still give the same worry that the trademark over 'scrolls' would give them.

As well, simply giving up the trademark means what exactly? That nobody has it trademarked anymore? Then someone else can come in and do the exact same thing. That doesn't really solve anything. Or if Bethesda gets it, then that's just as bad in my opinion.

Why oh why is trademarking single, common words allowed?

 

[Cyrus Hanley]

Scrolls is a weird word.

S C R O L L S

Anyway, my opinion is summarised quite nicely in this one YouTube clip.

 

[Strazdas]

i was running around saying that the only developer/publisher this year that hasnt f**ked up was bethesda, and it seems that i spoke too soon.

 

[Astoria]

Well I think we all can see this was never about the name, Bethesda wanna get some free money. Can't think of any other reason why they're doing this unless they just wanna be dicks.

 

[efAston]

Maybe Bioworks should sue Bethesda for having dragons in their games.

 

[C.O.C]

Why am I the only one who seems to think Bethesda is in the right?
Someone tried to steal your thing and then prances around it like it's a joke "Let's settle it over quake 3."
Sod that fair play to Bethesda for showing the little guy that it's not alright to dance around the system.

 

[5t3v0]

I actually think that Zenimax are actually pushing their legal teams to use the "Sue till they can't stand no more" method. Another lawsuit by Bethesda about the Fallout MMO is taking place, with murky results. Though while I'm not sure if I like the look or direction of Fallout Online, I still think that Zenimax are being a bit childish over the whole thing.

I personally think that Zenimax really should stop with the lawsuits. Its not looking good on them.

 

[kingmob]

No, just no. I don't care about the legalities, you are not supposed to be able to HAVE a trademark on something as generic as the word 'scrolls'. I do not give a shit if some weird law gives you the 'right', everyone knows you are morally on the wrong side.
Maybe if he was making an elder scrolls knock-off, but that would probably fall nicely under the Elder scrolls copyright anyway.

 

[Jumwa]

But you know whether or not there is an ounce of truth to his claim's Bethesda is going to respond with something. To not to would mean what he said is true--in exactly the way that he said it happened. Even if it is completely true, they will find some way to twist the phrasing around to make it sound more innocuous.

As you said, we are entering into the battle for community support stage of this fight. Now that Notch has opened the floodgates, more and more mud flinging will commence until they settle or the hearings begin.

Not quite.

Bethesda doesn't seem to be responding for purely legal reasons. Notch thinks himself clever by using the court of public opinion to hurt Bethesda over this by twisting his own side of events (and he has done SOME twisting, at least), but that will likely hurt him more in court. For instance, Notch in his scramble to win our support has admitted to not researching Trademark law beyond a google search, that he never consulted a lawyer ever. Not to mention there may be legal consequences just for using this case to publicly defame the other litigant. If Bethesda gets into the same sort of thing with them, they set themselves up for legal trouble as well.

Whenever any responsible company is involved in litigation, you'll notice nobody with the company will talk to reporters about the case. Their only response tends to be "Our lawyers advise us never to speak about an ongoing case."

The fact that Bethesda hasn't responded doesn't mean anything more than they're listening to the advice of the guys who actually understand how the law works.

 

[GoldenFish]

I've been reading through these post and am horrified to see so many people against Bethesda. What the hell guys, it's their property they shouldn't have to share it with anyone else. Especially after what Mojang was going to do.

 

[DonTsetsi]

Bethesda is right in suing, they don't want Skyrim blocked on release day. I'm sure if Notch drops the trademark claim they won't continue the lawsuit.

P.S. If Notch does get the trademark I'm making a game called "Edged scrolls"

 

[Robert632]

You know, looking at his solution, Scrolls: some subtitle would probably end up causing more confusion then just plain Scrolls would've

 

[MacGuges]

Mojang Offered Up Scrolls Trademark, Bethsoft Said "No"
As Elder Scrolls [http://kotaku.com/5846111/mojang-v-bethesda-or-i-hate-it-when-mommy-and-daddy-fight] titles. Perhaps an unlikely scenario; perhaps not.
Permalink

Perhaps the Escapist is unwilling to examine claims made by their former editor-in-chief too aggressively, but I read anything published by Gawker with a grain of salt. Here's the fulcrum of the assertion that Zenisoft could reasonably see Mojang's trademark as a threat:

But after looking at Mojang's "Scrolls" patent application, I'm not so sure the case is as black and white as many would seem to believe. Specifically this part, referring to Mojang's claim of trademark on the use of "scrolls" for "radio and television programs and shows":

The application covers:

Entertainment services in the form of electronic, computer and video games provided by means of the Internet and other remote communications device; internet games (non downloadable); organising of games; games (not downloadable) played via a global computer network; education and entertainment services in the form of cinematographic, televisual, digital and motion picture films, radio and television programs and shows; preparation, editing and production of cinematographic, televisual, digital and motion picture films, radio and television programs; entertainment services in the form of electronic, computer and video games provided by means of the Internet, mobile telephone and other remote communications device.

In other words, Mojang intends to own the word "scrolls" in pretty much every form of visual entertainment media, not just in videogames. This means that, if the trademark is upheld, the company could rightly take action against anyone else using the word "scrolls" in any form of media whatsoever.

Now I Am Not A Lawyer, but I don't remember Russ ever claiming he had that expertise either. So I'm at a loss to explain how the language he's quoted carries the implication he says it does. Maybe it does! But could you explain it to me, or else refer me to a resource that explains why a trademark claim to multiple forms of media is also a trademark claim to multiple undeclared variations on your trademark?

If we trust Notch, his company has been willing to give up the trademark altogether to avoid the lawsuit, so it seems unlikely that Mojang ever intended to follow this route. Do we have any reason at all to suspect Notch has been dishonest here?

 

[SirFlamingLoboOfDoom]

Apparently everyone against notch in this thread goes down to Notch would have/can screw with Skyrim so they had to do it. Really? So notch was planing this from the start? Or did he have this secret grudge and he is going to attack Bethsoft if he gets to use scrolls?

Do you guys really think he is going to sue everything that has scrolls in it because mwahahahaha more MONIEZ!!

 

[Bob_Dobb]

I'm just waiting for Blizzard to sue for the use of 'craft' in 'Minecraft'.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

Maybe I'm being just a superstitious and overanalytical nut, but who thinks this is seekritly an attempt by Bethesda to obtain Minecraft from Markus by forcing him into bankruptcy with this lawsuit and then offering him money in exchange for the license and game?

I started to write a long response, but basically it's not possible, and Notch can easily afford legal costs for this and 10 or so more lawsuits in cash that he has on-hand.

You can't leverage a hostile takeover of a private company based on an unsure trademark infringement lawsuit on a product that has not made any money yet.

In reality, both sides are going to be losing a small chunk of money, but I'm still doubtful that it will actually go to court.

OK, I figured as much. tbh, I don't know who to side with here, since both sides seem to be at the wrong here, so my mind started to overexaggerate the circumstances that may have led up to this argument.

tbh, I just hope this ends with either side not taking any huge blow. I love both Bethesda and Mojang, and I don't want either to suffer.