Morrowind 2011 Mod Collection Pulled After Complaints

[neolithic]

I enjoy seeing the complaints of being asked about using their work, and not getting credit.
I'm fuzzy on how being asked if it can be used, somehow changes the credit you receive. Even if he had asked every mod author for permission, they would still be a line of text in a credits.txt file.
EDIT: just to clarify, to me, it seems that the main complaint is lack of credit, but the most put forth solution was "if he just asked permission".

I could rant and rave for 5 pages I think, but I'd just end up peevin anybody and everybody.

In the end, there's a lot of "shoulda" and "coulda" on both sides of the issue. In the end, there's a lot of "jagbag" titles to be handed out as well.

 

[CountTom]

Well I'm glad the internet is consistent sometimes. What both sides of the line did was stupid, however, what the modders chose to do in response was more stupid than what the compiler did. As much as those individual modders would've liked to have stroked their egos, they would not have been able to take any legal action mainly because they were credited, but also more importantly because the only people who stood to benefit from his actions were the people playing the game itself. What the modelers did was even more stupid not just because it kept some people from (playing/ bringing their attention back to) a game that's nearly a decade old, but because they cut their nose off in spite of their face by shutting themselves out of a "once-in-a-lifetime chance" at actually gaining a significant amount of publicity for their work. From the sounds or things, the compiler was in support for coming to some sort of arrangement where that could happen.

 

[EmilShmiengura]

Yaaaay!!! Justice has been done!!! Put away you're Morrowind DVD (or cd's, whatever). Either you go on reading encyclopedical lists of mods or you go on having a life. Beacause it would be ofcourse wrong for the public that actually...you know..has jobs and stuff, to enjoy Morrowind and it;s enriched universe once again. You see, many people who actually enjoed Morrowind when it came out are now adults, have this things called jooob and familyyy and don;t have time for a research career into the world of Morrwind mods. But still would have enjoyes that accesible collection. Thank God that's taken care of now. And all the moders can now be aknowledged for their efforts...from their moms and huge crowds of up to 60 people. Yeaaah! And as for that black-harted scoundrel who made no money off the free mods and gave the creators crdits...I know there;s a special place in hell for him... a special circle reserved for people who don't ask "Excuse me, may I distribute your freeware in a free compilation?"

 

[Fetzenfisch]

I hope he posts the usernames or emails of these assholes so they get spammed into oblivion .....

hehe nice choice of words for a thread about Morrowind mods ^^

 

[Atros81]

From the TES: Construction Kit EULA itself:

1. RESTRICTIONS ON USE
The Editor and any other software that is available for download from this Site is and shall remain the copyrighted property of Bethesda Softworks and/or its designee(s) and You shall take no action inconsistent with such title or ownership. You may not cause or permit the sale or other commercial distribution or commercial exploitation (e.g., by renting, licensing, sublicensing, leasing, disseminating, uploading, downloading, transmitting, whether on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise) of any New Materials without the express prior written consent of an authorized representative of Bethesda Softworks. This includes distributing New Materials as part of any compilation You and/or other Product users may create. You shall not create any New Materials that infringe upon the rights of others, or that are libelous, defamatory, harassing, or threatening, and You shall comply with all applicable laws in connection with the New Materials. You are only permitted to distribute the New Materials, without charge (i.e., on a strictly non-commercial basis), to other authorized users who have purchased the Product, solely for use with such users' own authorized copies of such Product and in accordance with and subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement and all applicable laws. If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit. You also waive and agree never to assert against Bethesda Softworks or its affiliates, distributors or licensors any moral rights or similar rights, however designated, that You may have in or to any of the New Materials. If You commit any breach of this Agreement, Your right to use the Editor under this Agreement shall automatically terminate, without notice.

By accepting the EULA, you are essentially giving up your rights to the New Materials created with the Construction Set.

Seems pretty simple, I'm still going through the whole thing, but, it really doesn't look as if there's anything the Modders can do legally at this juncture. Of course, I've read somewhere that EULA's are quite iffy legal-wise, and may not in fact apply to all areas/countries, despite what the company in question may claim otherwise.

Re-read the section you quoted. The mod authors do not 'give up their rights' as a blanket statement. They grant Bethesda the rights to do basically whatever they want with it, but they STILL own the rights to their work. A game mod is a work of creative expression, and as such the rights to it belong to it's creators on creation. They give Bethesda the right to do what they will with it as part of the cost of being able to use their IP. This does NOT give the rights to anybody else who thinks 'hey, this mod is cool, I want to package it with all these other mods and distribute it in a package attributed to me.' As well... there is this line: "This includes distributing New Materials as part of any compilation You and/or other Product users may create. You shall not create any New Materials that infringe upon the rights of others, or that are libelous, defamatory, harassing, or threatening, and You shall comply with all applicable laws in connection with the New Materials." As I see it, these are DIRECTLY prohibiting these kind of compilations. Plus, why would Bethesda say that you shouldn't infringe on the rights of others if others have no rights?

Something else for people to consider in this. One reason I can see why people are upset about this is that people with the Morrowind 2011 mod can't really see who did what. Most of these mods are generally to a limited portion of the game, and was packaged and distributed to enhance that particular piece. Yes, this is a bit ego-maniacal, but a lot of time goes into creating these mods.

 

[CountTom]

From the TES: Construction Kit EULA itself:

1. RESTRICTIONS ON USE
The Editor and any other software that is available for download from this Site is and shall remain the copyrighted property of Bethesda Softworks and/or its designee(s) and You shall take no action inconsistent with such title or ownership. You may not cause or permit the sale or other commercial distribution or commercial exploitation (e.g., by renting, licensing, sublicensing, leasing, disseminating, uploading, downloading, transmitting, whether on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise) of any New Materials without the express prior written consent of an authorized representative of Bethesda Softworks. This includes distributing New Materials as part of any compilation You and/or other Product users may create. You shall not create any New Materials that infringe upon the rights of others, or that are libelous, defamatory, harassing, or threatening, and You shall comply with all applicable laws in connection with the New Materials. You are only permitted to distribute the New Materials, without charge (i.e., on a strictly non-commercial basis), to other authorized users who have purchased the Product, solely for use with such users' own authorized copies of such Product and in accordance with and subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement and all applicable laws. If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit. You also waive and agree never to assert against Bethesda Softworks or its affiliates, distributors or licensors any moral rights or similar rights, however designated, that You may have in or to any of the New Materials. If You commit any breach of this Agreement, Your right to use the Editor under this Agreement shall automatically terminate, without notice.

By accepting the EULA, you are essentially giving up your rights to the New Materials created with the Construction Set.

Seems pretty simple, I'm still going through the whole thing, but, it really doesn't look as if there's anything the Modders can do legally at this juncture. Of course, I've read somewhere that EULA's are quite iffy legal-wise, and may not in fact apply to all areas/countries, despite what the company in question may claim otherwise.

Before you mislead someone, your first statement is incorrect.

What this part below says is, "anything you create is yours, but Bethesda can do whatever in the hell they want with it regardless of you, the creator of your 'New Materials'."

If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

"What he did was illegal and things that are illegal are bad and you shouldn't ever do them. He is wrong forever."

"What he did was illegal, but in a way that no one actually cares about and they're just dicks exercising legal rights because it makes them feel special."

 

[Starke]

That's more or less true in the states as well. Improv is thinking of registering a copyright, which is necessary for mass publication. That said, the SDK does retain ownership of any modifications of the game for Bethesda.

What do you mean by registering a copyright? Do you mean trademark? In Australia there is nowhere to register as there is no need period for copyright (atleast afaik), weather its a photo you take of your family or a multimillion dollar game.

There's probably some registration system someplace, though I'll admit I know next to nothing about Australian law. A trademark is a related but fundamentally different concept. Basically you can trademark a product name (like Microsoft or Splinter Cell) or a product label (like the McDonald's) iconography. It's still an intellectual property, but it's distinct from a copyright in that it is protection for your product's identity, rather than its content.

Sorry, I realize I didn't really answer your question. In the states you can file to have a copyright officially logged, which makes potential court cases a lot less ambiguous down the line, and anyone who's (print) publishing something is almost certain to do so. However it's not necessary for a copyright to exist in the first place.

snip

I meant they have no legal right to sue someone for getting a bunch of mods on the internet.

Yeah, having reread the EULA, it seems they do. They retain copyright, they just cede unlimited use of their copyright to Bethesda, mybad.

 

[Tom Phoenix]

I have a question to those familiar with the Morrowind modding community. Do these modders release their mods exclusively on specific sites? It is possible that the issue isn't so much that the modders aren't getting credit, but that this takes away clicks from websites where the mods were originally uploaded. I ask beacuse this reminds me of the controversy in the World of WarCraft addon community regarding the program WoWMatrix, which simplified the updating of addons, but resulted in people not downloading these addons directly from websites on which they were originally hosted (although, in that case, it was made worse by the fact that WoWMatrix was using the bandwith of those websites to provide downloads instead of using its own).

I think issues like this point to a problem that has always existed regarding mods and that is the problem of modder recognition versus user convenience. It seems that every time someone attempts to streamline the process of applying mods in order to make it easier for less tech-savvy individuals, it always leads to a controversy regarding whether or not the modders themselves are getting enough recognition for their work.

Personally, I do agree that the creator of this mod compilation was wrong for including mods in it without the permission of their creators. Had he done so, I am sure many, if not most, would have happily agreed to contribute to the project, especially since it would make it easier for new blood to enter the community. That said, I cannot help but feel that some modders tend to be way overprotective of their work and that they would rather inconvenience the user than allow them to obtain the mod in any other way than the one they specifically specified. In the end, I think some sort of compromise is needed.

Overall, this just goes to show that projects like this should not be taken up single-handedly, but that the entire community should work together to make such project possible.

Unfortunately, you speak out of naivete. I speak from personal experience when I say that most mod authors in the Morrowind community are almost religiously against the idea of mod compilations, and its why they're rarities.

As to why, well, you stated the reason yourself - its seems that every time that someone tries to steamline the process, drama ensues. Wyre (author of Wyre Mash/Wyre Bash) and the creators of OBMM and FOMM had the same drama they had to try to diffuse. It only becomes exacerbated in the case by actual mod content being involved.

Well, I am not familiar with the Morrowind community (never claimed to be), so I guess it is possible I am giving the modders too much credit. I thought they would have the end user at least partially in mind, but I guess I was mistaken.

Either way, that is most unfortunate to hear. I don't think some modders truly realise how cubersome it can be for a less technically-savvy person to apply mods, particularly multiple ones. What is worse, insisting on not streamlining the process simply results in driving people away from mods, if not the game in general, and I doubt older communities such as the Morrowind one can afford to reject new blood.

 

[EHKOS]

Aren't those authers trying to make Morrowind better? They are getting in the way of their own goal, unless they only care about publicity. Then fuck them, this man spent his time on making a wonderful game better and all he gets is flak. I say it again, in particular disgust, FUCK THEM.

 

[Weslebear]

Well the fact that at least a few got hold of it, means it will be spread around like wildfire anyway so this isn't going to stop shit.

Shame it won't be as easy to come by now, twas the reason I was finally going to pick up Morrowind.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

Well the fact that at least a few got hold of it, means it will be spread around like wildfire anyway so this isn't going to stop shit.

Shame it won't be as easy to come by now, twas the reason I was finally going to pick up Morrowind.

Just google it. Its out there.

 

[Starke]

He should of asked permision and the modders are overreacting

I think bethesda just pulled an attempted (but failed) damage control in banning him

To an extent? No. It isn't an overreaction by any means. Taking and using or distributing someone else's mod without permission is a pretty fundamental violation in the community's standards. As for Bethesda, it's not damage control, it's a reaction to the egregiousness of that violation.

But to warrent threat of legal action?
I'm an artist or at least consider myself one I don't make any money, if I was to find somebody (for this exsample) claiming they created it. I would be pissed and request them to remove it and contact the site they where hosting on to get them to remove it if they refused but I wouldn't threaten legal action. Now if I made money or the person stealing my work was making money off my work then it would be a diffrent story. but that is irrelivant to these curcimstances. and My thoughts on bethedas recation is purely an idea. might be wrong but we can't say... at least yet

It's important to remember there's a big difference between legal action and threatening legal action. It's the difference between "please, take that content down," and "if you don't, I'll file suit against your site." Simply threatening legal action doesn't mean it will result.

As for, "should they?" That's kinda tricky. You wouldn't want to, if anything that may be a credit to your character, and I'm not sure if I would. But, if someone did use my work in a mega-compilation like this, took credit for it, posted it to torrents and contacted the media? I might consider it in concert with other modders from the community, which seems to be (in broad strokes) what happened.

I also know a lot of modders who are... shall we say "undiplomatic?" If someone pulled this on them, it wouldn't surprise me if they threatened to take his ass to court. I'm not defending them, simply I know some individuals like that. I have no idea if any of them are the same ones involved in this, however.

"What he did was illegal and things that are illegal are bad and you shouldn't ever do them. He is wrong forever."

"What he did was illegal, but in a way that no one actually cares about and they're just dicks exercising legal rights because it makes them feel special."

I'd take the second part a little further and more cynically, and suggest, "What he did wasn't illegal because it didn't affect me, and only benefited me, and how dare someone who was wronged make life the slightest bit inconvenient for me, no matter the ethics involved." ...that may have been too cynical of me, however.

 

[GothmogII]

From the TES: Construction Kit EULA itself:

1. RESTRICTIONS ON USE
The Editor and any other software that is available for download from this Site is and shall remain the copyrighted property of Bethesda Softworks and/or its designee(s) and You shall take no action inconsistent with such title or ownership. You may not cause or permit the sale or other commercial distribution or commercial exploitation (e.g., by renting, licensing, sublicensing, leasing, disseminating, uploading, downloading, transmitting, whether on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise) of any New Materials without the express prior written consent of an authorized representative of Bethesda Softworks. This includes distributing New Materials as part of any compilation You and/or other Product users may create. You shall not create any New Materials that infringe upon the rights of others, or that are libelous, defamatory, harassing, or threatening, and You shall comply with all applicable laws in connection with the New Materials. You are only permitted to distribute the New Materials, without charge (i.e., on a strictly non-commercial basis), to other authorized users who have purchased the Product, solely for use with such users' own authorized copies of such Product and in accordance with and subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement and all applicable laws. If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit. You also waive and agree never to assert against Bethesda Softworks or its affiliates, distributors or licensors any moral rights or similar rights, however designated, that You may have in or to any of the New Materials. If You commit any breach of this Agreement, Your right to use the Editor under this Agreement shall automatically terminate, without notice.

By accepting the EULA, you are essentially giving up your rights to the New Materials created with the Construction Set.

Seems pretty simple, I'm still going through the whole thing, but, it really doesn't look as if there's anything the Modders can do legally at this juncture. Of course, I've read somewhere that EULA's are quite iffy legal-wise, and may not in fact apply to all areas/countries, despite what the company in question may claim otherwise.

Before you mislead someone, your first statement is incorrect.

What this part below says is, "anything you create is yours, but Bethesda can do whatever in the hell they want with it regardless of you, the creator of your 'New Materials'."

If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit.

Fair enough, my mistake: It's okay for Bethesda to do whatever they like with stuff you create, and not anyone who is unaffiliated. (Like Mr.Smith)

 

[Atmos Duality]

Stop thinking about money, because it legally cannot be about that (unless Bethesda gets involved).
It's a matter of courtesy and plagiarism, and one that could have easily been avoided if he just contacted the authors of the original mods.

That's how other mod compilations have been in the past, and it works out if only because the authors know some other dude isn't out there gathering up their stuff and stamping his name on it.

 

[Starke]

Unfortunately, you speak out of naivete. I speak from personal experience when I say that most mod authors in the Morrowind community are almost religiously against the idea of mod compilations, and its why they're rarities.

As to why, well, you stated the reason yourself - its seems that every time that someone tries to steamline the process, drama ensues. Wyre (author of Wyre Mash/Wyre Bash) and the creators of OBMM and FOMM had the same drama they had to try to diffuse. It only becomes exacerbated in the case by actual mod content being involved.

Well, I am not familiar with the Morrowind community (never claimed to be), so I guess it is possible I am giving the modders too much credit. I thought they would have the end user at least partially in mind, but I guess I was mistaken.

Either way, that is most unfortunate to hear. I don't think some modders truly realise how cubersome it can be for a less technically-savvy person to apply mods, particularly multiple ones. What is worse, insisting on not streamlining the process simply results in driving people away from mods, if not the game in general, and I doubt older communities such as the Morrowind one can afford to reject new blood.

At the risk of contradicting Cait, from experience, I think the biggest failure here was that he didn't actually seek permission at all first. The Morrowind community (at least when I was still involved with it) was pretty friendly, but fiercely protective of its work. This is something that's perpetuated into the Oblivion and Fallout 3/NV communities. That said, there have always been a few "undiplomatic" individuals in the community, and stepping on their toes can't ever be a good idea.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

Stop thinking about money, because it legally cannot be about that (unless Bethesda gets involved).
It's a matter of courtesy and plagiarism, and one that could have easily been avoided if he just contacted the authors of the original mods.

That's how other mod compilations have been in the past, and it works out if only because the authors know some other dude isn't out there gathering up their stuff and stamping his name on it.

Credit was given though. He didn't plagarise the work. I'm look at the credits now. It's there.

The issue here isn't that he didn't give credit, its that he didn't look for permission to use them. I think that's bad form to say the very least, since many of the associated mods explicitly say in their descriptions and readme that they can be used for whatever as long as credit is given.

 

[Wolfram23]

I don't get it. You can, on your own, download all the mods individually then go through a hell of a time getting them to work. But to download them all together in a compilation that will work and has fully detailed instructions, is illegal? How is sharing something freely given illegal, anyway?

And while it would have been nice of him to first contact all the modders, I also have to ask why they are refusing to meet in the middle? He could so easily just put each modder's name into each zip file or whatever and they'd have instant recognition rather than the credit zip file, which probably wouldn't get looked at by most people. Alternatively make the credits roll during installation or something... there's a lot of options here.

 

[Void(null)]

Fair enough, my mistake: It's okay for Bethesda to do whatever they like with stuff you create, and not anyone who is unaffiliated. (Like Mr.Smith)

Except that anyone who is not Bethesda trying to enforce some form of copyright claim on the work would be a challenge to Bethesda's ownership and therefor against the ToS.

Its the exact same reason why EA has not brought action against "Paysites Must Be Destroyed" and why none of the modders or Paysites in question have been able to take legal action against them.

Make threats sure, but nothing has ever been taken to court as they do not have a legal leg to stand on for the exact same reason as above.

 

[Akihiko]

Ironically this whole debacle has probably made him, and the mod far more popular, and made the modders who complained less popular. Now it's forbidden fruit, people will go out of their way to download it, to see what the fuss is about.

I can see why they're upset, he really should have asked permission first. However, I do think they have blown it out of proportion.