Any plot in which the primary antagonist for most of the game turns out to be the hero's father/brother/nephew/cousin/former roommate/best friend/etc., who has been controlled/corrupted by the real Big Bad.
Most Over-Used Plot In Games.
- Thread starter TehIrishSoap
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Well, the world is divided as East Vs. West right now. Russia has a massive military machine and was only briefly making any real attempts to reform culturally (after Desert Storm and it's collapse). If you look at events like their assasination attempt in Ukraine to influance an election in their favor, the invasion of Georgia, their threats of using nuclear force against Poland for a US missle interception base there, and of course cutting off oil to the EU for a while, you'd see why they do not exactly have the most steller reputation. Incidently none of what I say there is rhetoric, look it up.Su.zaku said:
China is another major bad guy today, because not only are they building up a major military force, including the navy and screening elements (submarines their their Yuan class), they are also making speeches about wanting to conquer the world for "living space" and racial dominance. If you do a search for "chinese, satellite, lasers" you'll also find a ton of articles about the Chinese using lasers to blind satellites. Then of course you'll find another incident which was the talk of the land before 9/11 where the Chinese were engaging in direct techno-piracy (as if their patent violations and such aren't enough, much has been written about their robber economy). What the Chinese did was force a US plane over international waters to land, take the pilots prisoner, and then scavenge through the plane to steal as much US aerunautics technology as they could. 9/11 wound up overshadowing this, especially seeing as the pilots were released at least, but it did happen.
The point here being that if your going to pick a bad guy in the modern world for an all out war, as opposed to some kind of battle against insurgents, you only have so many options. Private Military contractors are used because of our current morality about demonizing our enemies, such non-existant groups represent a neutral threat that isn't going to offend anyone based on their policies, when companies are concerned about such things.
You have to remember that the US's major weakness is our morality, we tend to care what other countries think (to some extent) and listen to their whining, and allow it to influance our policies. Nations like China, and Russia do not. Painting us as bad guys for doing something bugs us, if you say something like that to the Russians or Chinese they just laugh it off and do whatever they are going to do. Imagine for a second how differant it would have played out if the US had tried to kill a world leader to influance an election and people started BAAAWing about it, never mind if we actually came out and told a country to do what we say or we'd nuke them (this in referance to Poland). Strength isn't a factor since when you get down to it we're still (for th emoment) the most powerful nation on earth.
Not meaning to engage in too much of a political rant, but it's impossible to avoid when your talking about the plot of certail real world groups (or analogies to them) being used in video games. There are reasons for it, connected to what is actually going on out there if you pay attention.
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To answer the central question of the thread though, I'd actually like to see more quests that don't involve the whole "Kill Foozle" thing. The plot being to kill some big bad guy at the end tends to work for video games, so I understand why it's used so often. However I believe there have been numerous games over the years... looking towards things like some of the Ultima Games (IV and VI specifically) where reacing some end boss was not the central premise or objective of the game. A few titles like "Darklands" and "Space 1889" managed to involve various bosses, but without making any of them the real purpose, with the actual objective in the game being to obtain fame and fortune, and move between various seperate storylines, completing them all being the "win" for the game so to speak as you become legendary heroes remembered through the ages for your numerous deeds. Even the original "Might and Magic" was able to mix things up, where the endgame was basically to find out what was in "The Inner Sanctum" in the central of the Astral Plane. It was about discovering knowlege, not about killing anyone in paticular, though it DID lead into the other games increasingly revolving around some Foozle named Sheltem.
The most overused sub-plot ever? Where everyone nitpicks about how tried-and-true plot devices the average person isn't tired of seeing happen again in new creative ways need to be gotten rid of because not only must we have the new, but we must also never revisit the old successful formulas. Heard of "archetypal myth"? Nearly EVERY good story ever written hass elements of archetypal myth, be it a story of revenge, a quest story after , or saving the princess and/or kingdom from forces that want to own them.
I say that telling old stories well is better than telling new stories and hoping for acceptance just because they're new. Also, try coming up with a plot for a game. I bet you ANYTHING your plot ends up very similar to something already out there, whether you were trying or not. There are very few actual types of quests you can possibly send someone on, and only so many reasons.
That being said, I already feel the comments: well can't something old be bad too? I never said to the contrary, what I said is that the average person isn't tired of getting revenge on evil corporations yet, and wants another go at saving the princess to boot.
I say that telling old stories well is better than telling new stories and hoping for acceptance just because they're new. Also, try coming up with a plot for a game. I bet you ANYTHING your plot ends up very similar to something already out there, whether you were trying or not. There are very few actual types of quests you can possibly send someone on, and only so many reasons.
That being said, I already feel the comments: well can't something old be bad too? I never said to the contrary, what I said is that the average person isn't tired of getting revenge on evil corporations yet, and wants another go at saving the princess to boot.
Every plot boils down to the following:
Protagonist -> Opposition -> Conflict -> Victory
In the same way that all Mexican foods (as marketed in America) consist of:
Tortilla -> Cheese -> Meat -> Vegetable
The good stories work to mask the formula with other twists and turns, arrange them differently, or set up a standard expectation only to snatch it away at the right instant.
THE PROBLEM:
Too many writers think that a drastic change of SETTING makes the story better. Different era, different tech, different species, different style of magic, different form of martial arts, and so on. Those things don't make the story, and I think it's THESE that are more overused than anything. You can't help but overuse certain elements of good storytelling--that's how it became good--but you can guard yourself against thinking a "different coat of paint" somehow makes the same story different.
Protagonist -> Opposition -> Conflict -> Victory
In the same way that all Mexican foods (as marketed in America) consist of:
Tortilla -> Cheese -> Meat -> Vegetable
The good stories work to mask the formula with other twists and turns, arrange them differently, or set up a standard expectation only to snatch it away at the right instant.
THE PROBLEM:
Too many writers think that a drastic change of SETTING makes the story better. Different era, different tech, different species, different style of magic, different form of martial arts, and so on. Those things don't make the story, and I think it's THESE that are more overused than anything. You can't help but overuse certain elements of good storytelling--that's how it became good--but you can guard yourself against thinking a "different coat of paint" somehow makes the same story different.
Easy: "Everyone except America is douche. Go kill they for apple pie and glory." Ok, most "modern" shooters aren't actually that stupid, but honestly: Haven't we killed enough Germans/Russians?
OK, can you actually name a game besides Halo that has that plot? Because that's only one game. I mean, Resistance is a little like that, except for...certain elements...that might involve spoilers....Sn1P3r M98 said:
You don't actually win the war. By the end of R2, things are actually pretty fucked up. Including Hale.
How about Guy running from his dark past? You play as guy, yet you don't know what his dark past is, just that he's haunted by it and it's real bad. And he's turning over a new leaf by....killing people?
See Grand Theft Auto, Silent Hill 2, Gears of War, Red Dead Redemption, Final Fantasy IV
See Grand Theft Auto, Silent Hill 2, Gears of War, Red Dead Redemption, Final Fantasy IV
Fair enough about Mass Effect 1, I suppose. I just felt that in Mass Effect 2, while it says you are the best, most of the other characters are just as good as you. Just what I felt about the game mind.Keava said:
Someone has killed/kidnapped my daughter/wife so now I must save them and in the process enforce stereotypes of women being powerless and men being the big strong macho dominant role. (Disclaimer: I do not agree with this).
John Marston
(John Marston saves Family, While killing friends and goverment. Solved
Red Dead RedemptionSven und EIN HUND said:
(John Marston saves Family, While killing friends and goverment. Solved
Anything centred around WW2, I simply cannot stand. Not really sure why - I love reading about the history of WW2. More than this, though, I hate modern combat games (wanted to say "modern warfare" but then I remembered there was a game with that name). I just find the concept boring, somehow (though the latest Medal of Honour game makes me slightly somewhat interested a little bit). Similarly, zombies annoy me.
Come to think of it, I don't really like anything not in space with pretty spaceships and FTL travel, and fancy futuristic guns... so you can disregard my opinions if you want
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Come to think of it, I don't really like anything not in space with pretty spaceships and FTL travel, and fancy futuristic guns... so you can disregard my opinions if you want
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What do you mean you don't know what his past is?raunchious said:
GTA4: Nico was a mercenary that did bad shit.
Silent Hill 2: James' wife is dead.
Gears of War: Fenix deserted and Fuckface lost his wife.
RDR: He was a bandit.
This. The only exception to this rule for me is "Save the galaxy/kingdom" usually paired with saving the "love interest of the game" as you save the galaxy/kingdom. Perhaps these two are one in the same like Nintendo likes to do or perhaps they are seperate like in Mass Effect. Hell Mas effect gave you 3 ladies to go save and let you pick between them along the way.Nieroshai said:
Amnesia isn't "all over the place" the same way Yahtzee describes it. And Yahtzee I bet is the reason so many people are saying it is played out. I could easily list 20 games with the above plot device and still be able to continue to list more. I bet alot of people complaining about amnesia would be hard pressed and have to work for a list of 10, let alone 20 titles. Sorry, but Yahtzee fanboyism is annoying on this forum.
I don't like any game where the main story is about saving one guy. Except Heavy Rain... and Bad Dudes.
Anything where you fight terrorists, and then change sides. HAZE comes to mind, plus a couple of others.
Personally, I am totally not fussed about working for the bad guys. I had a good time on Crackdown 2, I don't care if the game implied that the Agency was evil... If I get to ramp SUV's through helicopters, and use cars as flails, then I'm happy.
Personally, I am totally not fussed about working for the bad guys. I had a good time on Crackdown 2, I don't care if the game implied that the Agency was evil... If I get to ramp SUV's through helicopters, and use cars as flails, then I'm happy.
This isn't just in games, it goes in many movies and books as well. Be they King, Tolkien, Brooks, Jordan, Salvatore, or Koontz.
Yay, it's the Ball/Fair! Our little hamlet/village/convent is having a great time! Oh, no, is that a massive horde of orcs/undead/ cultists? Blarg, most of us die, but the Chosen One gets away! Find out s/he is a heir/alien/clone with great power and embark on journey to overthrow evil king/queen/demon/alien.
There, I think I just managed the plot lines to most fantasy games and novels.
Do I get a cookie?
Yay, it's the Ball/Fair! Our little hamlet/village/convent is having a great time! Oh, no, is that a massive horde of orcs/undead/ cultists? Blarg, most of us die, but the Chosen One gets away! Find out s/he is a heir/alien/clone with great power and embark on journey to overthrow evil king/queen/demon/alien.
There, I think I just managed the plot lines to most fantasy games and novels.
Do I get a cookie?