Mother Finds Kidnapped Children On Facebook

[infinity_turtles]

Your post in one easy sentence:

Kidnapping is fine, Mom is a jerk for ratting him out.

Wrong. Wrong Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Have you missed the whole "We don't know all the details here and thus NONE of us should be making judgment calls" bit? Because that's my post in one easy sentence. So stop trying to define my argument as the direct opposite of yours.

I couldn't disagree more, she shouldn't give him another chance to do something stupid/dangerous by not calling the cops

Considering if it wasn't for Facebook, he would have gotten away with it, I don't think it's stupid in that it more or less accomplished what he wanted. As for being dangerous, how is what he did dangerous? With what we know about this case(which is next to nothing, he's done nothing ti endanger anyone. You can argue it was immoral if you like(though I'll argue straight back that it might not be depending on the circumstances), but we haven't seen him do anything stupid or dangerous.

he kidnapped these kids, and you're worried about how SHE might manipulate them?

I meant if she had gotten custody originally. If I was going through a divorce, and my wife wanted FULL CUSTODY, I would in fact be very worried she'd try and turn my kids against me. I think that's a rather logical thing to worry about under those circumstances.

In your head is a wondrous, magical contraption based on sending electrical pulses through nerves, use it.

I am. By using it I have determined that I know very little about this case and there are lots of conceivable circumstances for the father, mother, both, or neither of them to be in the wrong.

 

[Danilo Morales]

I love forums, it's just so entertaining.

"How do we know the mother isn't a psychopath?"

Good point, how do we know she isn't freaking Mary Poppins?

"She broke up their family, the kids have no idea who she is and probably don't care!"

Right, so that invalidates the fact that the mother was completely deprived of the joy of raising, let alone even knowing, her children? At this point she should have said "oh well, it doesn't matter now"?

Christ people, nothing is ever a positive anymore, is it?

Nothing is ever cut and dry, i think that is the main sentiment here

 

[Blueruler182]

According to the original article the mother did have several conversations with her lost daughter over facebook, so it's not like she just randomly came in and took the children away without them knowing what the hell was going on. Again, we don't know the whole story, but I imagine there isn't really another way to work this out, since the father was willing to kidnap the kids and hide them from their mother for 15 years.

Yeah, I read that too, but, again, I still think getting the child to talk to her father about it would have made more sense. It's good that it wasn't sprung on them, but I still think some form of settlement would have been smarter.

You know, the article doesn't say anything about them not trying that. The article doesn't say anything about them not trying to talk. I'm not saying she necessarily did do this, but you don't know that she didn't.

I don't get why so many of you look at this story and immediately try to find the worst case scenario. It's like people are so used to the news saying bad things that they assume there can never be a genuinely positive thing. All we know right now is that a mother has been reunited with her lost children. Is it really necessary to assume that this women is a just a selfish ***** ruining these kids live just to fulfill her own maternal needs?

Fair enough. I'm assuming, I'll admit, but it's based on the fact that no kid in their right mind would agree to move from central Florida to California if they attempted to reach a settlement. And he could have been an abusive father for all we know. I said this up above, it's all idol speculation. The article made it seem like they were making this out to be a great event, but the facts that they gave kind of made it seem more like mom was taking them after 15 years from the only place they know.

Again, I don't know, I'm just going on the facts I've been given. You have no idea how much I hope that this was indeed for the best, if for no other reason to give me something positive to talk about at work tomorrow.

 

[Danilo Morales]

This calls for logic!
Assuming that goodness is a quantifiable constant,
Statement A = The mother is a good person with good intentions
Statement B = The father is a bad person with bad intentions
If the mother has been searching for them all this time, then A must be true.
If B = true, then this is a happy story.
If B = false, then this is a happy story.

Therefore, this is a happy story no matter which way you look at it.

Un less A = False then you have a shit storm

 

[Danilo Morales]

Dear lord this thread is appalling.

Just try to imagine you are the mother. Your children, your own flesh and blood, were taken from you at such a young age that you never even got to spend much time with them. You searched a long time for them, but nothing ever came from it. Then you suddenly find one of them. Would you not be overjoyed? Would you not want to see the children that were stolen from you 15 years ago? I would.

Yes, it will be hard for the two children to build a relationship with their mother and adapt to a new home. Maybe in the end it would have been better to leave them with the father. Maybe the father was justified in trying to run away with the kids, and the mother is the irresponsible parent. But none of that has been revealed yet. You don't know why the father left with the children. So I don't understand why people are calling this women a selfish ***** when all she wanted to do was get her children back, which is a perfectly normal thing for a mother to want.

Because if it does destroy her children then she is for not taking them into consideration, mother need to look out for the best interest of their kids not of themselves thats why we form that opinion...

 

[infinity_turtles]

This calls for logic!
Assuming that goodness is a quantifiable constant,
Statement A = The mother is a good person with good intentions
Statement B = The father is a bad person with bad intentions
If the mother has been searching for them all this time, then A must be true.
If B = true, then this is a happy story.
If B = false, then this is a happy story.

Therefore, this is a happy story no matter which way you look at it.

Actually, if B=False I say it's an unhappy story all around. The father goes to jail, the kid's lives are ruined, and a generally good person has spent fifteen years without her kids. That's also ignoring the fact that A can be false still.

 

[Danilo Morales]

Ok, from my point of view with working on child support cases i can say that over 80% of the people who get custody of the children are the mothers the rest are split between relatives and the father, that being said i can see both sides of the story here where both parties could be considered both good and bad... in my point of view i feel there is never black and white, only shades of gray... at least for morality and justice, and this story exemplifies that...

 

[Internet Kraken]

Dear lord this thread is appalling.

Just try to imagine you are the mother. Your children, your own flesh and blood, were taken from you at such a young age that you never even got to spend much time with them. You searched a long time for them, but nothing ever came from it. Then you suddenly find one of them. Would you not be overjoyed? Would you not want to see the children that were stolen from you 15 years ago? I would.

Yes, it will be hard for the two children to build a relationship with their mother and adapt to a new home. Maybe in the end it would have been better to leave them with the father. Maybe the father was justified in trying to run away with the kids, and the mother is the irresponsible parent. But none of that has been revealed yet. You don't know why the father left with the children. So I don't understand why people are calling this women a selfish ***** when all she wanted to do was get her children back, which is a perfectly normal thing for a mother to want.

Because if it does destroy her children then she is for not taking them into consideration, mother need to look out for the best interest of their kids not of themselves thats why we form that opinion...

It's so easy to say that. But can you really blame a mother for wanting to get her children back after not seeing them for 15 years? It's one thing to say that she might be making the wrong decision due to her emotions. It's different to say that she is a selfish ***** because of this, as others have said in the thread.

 

[antigodoflife]

Well you don't know the backstory so the mother could be evil. For example: "The Mother was a raging alcoholic by night and beats her children, Faustino Utrera devorces her once he finds out, during the custody battle The Mother lies saying that he beats the child and she was trying to save them and the court sided with her (1995 - Redneck County, what do you expect.) Faustino in fear of the children's saftey ran away with the kids (or 'kidnapped' them) making sure they had a better life. T. Mother goes insane and spends 15 demented/alcohol induced years looking for them. When T. Mother finds "T. Mother Jr. Utrera," on the internet in Schwarzenegger County she goes off her nut and demands legal action - but first she wanted an apple tree to help her with her FarmVille addiction, because that was more important than finding her Daughter TM Jr. Ultrera. So off to Hollywood County to find her happy daughter so she can take her home, back to Cocaine Cowboy County. So now Faustino is in Jail for trying to give his Son and Daughter a good life and TM Jr. Ultrera and Faustino Jr. Ultrera is sent back to her overly clingy, overly drunk mother where they're forced to stay home all the time, so she can catch up, but in the end will most like end up just throwing Beer Bottles at them" anyway that's my take.

 

[Danilo Morales]

Dear lord this thread is appalling.

Just try to imagine you are the mother. Your children, your own flesh and blood, were taken from you at such a young age that you never even got to spend much time with them. You searched a long time for them, but nothing ever came from it. Then you suddenly find one of them. Would you not be overjoyed? Would you not want to see the children that were stolen from you 15 years ago? I would.

Yes, it will be hard for the two children to build a relationship with their mother and adapt to a new home. Maybe in the end it would have been better to leave them with the father. Maybe the father was justified in trying to run away with the kids, and the mother is the irresponsible parent. But none of that has been revealed yet. You don't know why the father left with the children. So I don't understand why people are calling this women a selfish ***** when all she wanted to do was get her children back, which is a perfectly normal thing for a mother to want.

Because if it does destroy her children then she is for not taking them into consideration, mother need to look out for the best interest of their kids not of themselves thats why we form that opinion...

It's so easy to say that. But can you really blame a mother for wanting to get her children back after not seeing them for 15 years? It's one thing to say that she might be making the wrong decision due to her emotions. It's different to say that she is a selfish ***** because of this, as others have said in the thread.

And i agree, i cant blame her for wanting the kids back but i cant see her as being a victim as well without all of the evidence being presented, the only victims i see in this story are the kids

 

[ArianaUO321]

And here I thought all Farmville did was cause problems in the March Mayhem Developer Matchup... then get taken down when every single gamer rallies against them.

Guess it can do some good after all.

 

[FactualSquirrel]

How the hell can anyone be siding with the dad on this?

Did they miss the word kidnapped!?

Not at all, and I agree it sounds weird, but I just think that since the kids had facebook access, that they had most human rights and (presumably) a father they trusted, whereas they had absolutely no contact with their mother, meaning they'll need to entirely rebuild a relatonship and confuse the children to a great degree.

I know it sounds really weird, and it would technically be illegal, but I don't think it's just the father at fault.

 

[TOGSolid]

Yeah, this story is really grey for me. The father and mother were split, adn the father ran off with the kids, denying his former wife's custody.

But he was ostensibly a good father who cared for the kids, and raised them.

So now this woman, who holds a legal claim, finds them and takes them back after 15 years, severing their relationship with their father, and leaving them in the custody of a woman they probably don't even remember, and have no relationship with?

If I were the kids, I'd probably be furious with her.

So yeah, legal justice was served, but are the kids "better off" for it? Unlikely.

-m

Welcome to another day in the fucked up world of custody battles and how the legal system fucks around the kids it's supposedly trying to ensure get the best raising possible.

 

[KaiusCormere]

*sigh* I can't believe people think the mother is in the wrong here. Honestly, people, are you just trolling?? Quit projecting speculation into this and just realize you are in support of a kidnapper over the victim. Ridiculous.

 

[Shycte]

Yeah, this story is really grey for me. The father and mother were split, adn the father ran off with the kids, denying his former wife's custody.

But he was ostensibly a good father who cared for the kids, and raised them.

So now this woman, who holds a legal claim, finds them and takes them back after 15 years, severing their relationship with their father, and leaving them in the custody of a woman they probably don't even remember, and have no relationship with?

If I were the kids, I'd probably be furious with her.

So yeah, legal justice was served, but are the kids "better off" for it? Unlikely.

-m

The question is though? Does it matter if they are "better off". We live in a society based on actions and consequenses. He did a action and now he must suffer the consequenses of that action. It might be the oldest rule in human civilization.

 

[superbatranger]

Good for them, although I imagine it will take some time for the relationship to reach comfortable levels. They have been separated for 15 years.

 

[jtr477]

It appears that facebook is worth a few cents of any kind of function....

Who would've thought.

Hope she's happy with her apple tree though. =3

 

[Pendragon9]

Alot of unanswered questions here.

If the man took the children illegally from their good hearted mother, then let him rot in prison.

But if the mother was just a whore for alimony, then I don't know.

 

[Chipperz]

snip

The question is though? Does it matter if they are "better off". We live in a society based on actions and consequenses. He did a action and now he must suffer the consequenses of that action. It might be the oldest rule in human civilization.

Is... Is that a joke? The ONLY thing that matters is if the kids are "better off". If the mother had their best interests at heart, she could have at least moved to them so their lives aren't destroyed for a year before they move away from 'that woman that got dad arrested and made us move accross America'...

I think a lot of people who are saying the mother is a bad person are thinking of the children. Nice to see someone is...