Movie, TV, Web Series, and Music Hot Take(s).

Xprimentyl

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I going to have to highly disagree. Look, not every song was a hitter for some people, and even the BBs regrets some of their really early songs (the ones that are misognistic), but those dudes had talent. They're one of the early rappers (not the first) to bridge hard rock/heavy metal/punk with rap and hip-hop together. Without them, we wouldn't have Linkin Park or the Gorillaz. Especially the former. So give credit where credit is due. It sucks 1 out of 3 have passed away, but we should at least honor and give them the respect they deserve. Regardless of like and dislike. "Alive" is their most underrated song, and I consider the best, because it's a more chill rap song compared to their usual fare. Plus, it drops some good wisdom and life lessons.

As someone who doesn't like Linkin Park OR Gorillaz, I'm going to highly disagree with you in return. I don't even need to click on your video to know I'm going to hate it. The Beastie Boys made terrible, in-your-face noise; it's not interesting or entertaining. I put them in the same bucket as Vanilla Ice: they rode on pure gimmick. But I'll remind you, this is the Hot Takes thread, so in the spirit of such, don't feel the need to try to convince me otherwise. I've circled the sun a few more times than you, and have heard more than my fair share of the Beastie Boys and have enjoyed absolutely none of it. Popular culture embrace them as it has, but I'll never agree they're worth it.
 

BrawlMan

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As someone who doesn't like Linkin Park OR Gorillaz, I'm going to highly disagree with you in return. I don't even need to click on your video to know I'm going to hate it. The Beastie Boys made terrible, in-your-face noise; it's not interesting or entertaining.
So what? They weren't the only ones to do this nor exclusive to it. Doesn't matter if it's hip hop or heavy metal. Besides, that's really only the first half. The second half are a bit more chill and relaxed. Not interesting or entertaining for you. They're younger kids that listen to Beastie Boys and enjoy them. I don't blame them for doing so.

As someone who doesn't like Linkin Park OR Gorillaz
At least both groups did their own thing. Not to say they didn't follow trends, but they got creative with their music. There's a reason why Linkin Park and Gorillaz still have a huge following. One I am glad to be a part of and have no regrets. Like it or not both bands are and were an inspiration to kids, teens, and adults during the early 2000s and now. Mike Shinoda was and still is one of the best rappers from the 2000s that didn't rely on a single gimmick, and kept improving his craft each time. Besides, both bands don't always make "in your face!" music either. Linkin Park did early on for the first two albums, but that pretty much changed by the early 2010s. They could still be loud when they wanted to, and knew how to do it right.

I'll remind you, this is the Hot Takes thread, so in the spirit of such, don't feel the need to try to convince me otherwise.
I made the thread, so I know that. It's much less convincing and pointing out that your logic is flawed. Everybody has their own taste and music and everything, but I wouldn't consider everything the Beastie Boys did just loud obnoxious noise. And I'm sure as hell not going to compare them to Vanilla Ice. Vanilla Ice is in his own class of shittiness. There's a reason why people made fun of him for years, and didn't do the same with Eminem or the Beastie Boys. Not all these guys are perfect, but they do have skill. VI was just yet another white celebrity piggybacking and leeching off of black and hip-hop culture. Beastie boys, Eminem, Linkin Park, and the Gorillaz actually contributed something or contributed heavily, and brought new life and blends to the genre and introducing other genres to new or younger audiences they thought they would never like before. That's a huge accomplishment for them. More than whatever Vanilla Ice was doing.


I've circled the sun a few more times than you, and have heard more than my fair share of the Beastie Boys and have enjoyed absolutely none of it. Popular culture embrace them as it has, but I'll never agree they're worth it.
There's nothing wrong with you not enjoying them, but I'm just letting you know there's a reason why they made it to where they are. I don't always agree with pop culture either, and have my issues, but the BBs are not one of them.
 
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Xprimentyl

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Your opinion...
My "flawed logic" is my opinion. Hip Hop was not made better by the Beastie Boys' influence. Was it made broader? Sure, the same as adding another fast food franchise objectively "adds" to the variety of the broader dining experience. But better? In my opinion, in the Hot Takes thread, no; the Beastie Boys are a super-sized combo of junk food. You're welcome to disagree.
 

BrawlMan

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Hip Hop was not made better by the Beastie Boys' influence. Was it made broader?
Yes it was. I didn't say they influenced everything, but it helped broaden appeal and people in a different avenues. That is a positive influence whether you want to acknowledge that or not.


Sure, the same as adding another fast food franchise objectively "adds" to the variety of the broader dining experience. But better? In my opinion, in the Hot Takes thread, no; the Beastie Boys are a super-sized combo of junk food.
  1. I wouldn't exactly call Beastie Boys fast food. Even though plenty of people have eaten fast food while listening to their music. They are local Coney's that know what they're doing and know how to make good food.
  2. Yes, it is your opinion, people are allowed to disagree and discuss your opinion. It's a hot takes thread, but people can agree or disagree and talk about it. So it just doesn't end there. Besides this isn't the first time you disagreed with me or somebody else on this thread. I ain't afraid to defend something I know is good, or isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
 
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Xprimentyl

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Yes it was. I didn't say they influenced everything, but it helped broaden appeal and people in a different avenues. That is a positive influence whether you want to acknowledge that or not.



  1. I wouldn't exactly call Beastie Boys fast food. Even though plenty of people have eaten fast food while listening to their music. They are local Coney's that know what they're doing and know how to make good food.
  2. Yes, it is your opinion, people are allowed to disagree and discuss your opinion. It's a hot takes red, but people can agree or disagree and talk about it. So it just doesn't end there. Besides this isn't the first time you disagreed with me or somebody else on this thread. I ain't afraid to defend something I know is good, or isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Anyway, the Beastie Boys still suck.
 

Mister Mumbler

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The Beastie Boys are complete shit. A caricature of rap, a bunch of white dudes screaming into the mic and somehow into the history of music.
I mean, I think that has less to do with the Beastie Boys in particular and more the fact that rap back then (mid 80's) was just kind of shit. They're pretty much just a white version of Run DMC (not really slagging either as I do enjoy both groups). Early to mid 90's is when (I feel like) rap really took off with groups and rappers like Wu-Tang, Nas, N.W.A., Biggie, and A Tribe Called Quest.

Speaking of rappers though, as a white guy who enjoys rap, I cannot stand Eminem. Dude has spent the past two decades doing the same raps/cadences over the same, lackluster beats.
 

BrawlMan

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I mean, I think that has less to do with the Beastie Boys in particular and more the fact that rap back then (mid 80's) was just kind of shit. They're pretty much just a white version of Run DMC (not really slagging either as I do enjoy both groups). Early to mid 90's is when (I feel like) rap really took off with groups and rappers like Wu-Tang, Nas, N.W.A., Biggie, and A Tribe Called Quest.
Sturgeon's Law. With that said, there are 80s rap songs that have not aged well, or are sub-par by modern standards. I appreciate you for all the name drops, but NWA does literally nothing for me, and the mid 90s had the gangsta rap era. Not all of the songs were great from that era. Even back then, I was so-so about the genre, and would only listen to a select few. 2000s mainstream rap was just the worst for me. Mainly mid 2000s to late 2000s. I hate or dislike many rap songs from that era, barring a few exceptions.
 

Eacaraxe

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A lot of crap about shitty bands.
I have a rule of thumb:

"If this band's music appears in a television commercial or summer blockbuster movie trailer, I need to look back and consider if this band was ever really that good."

Never done me wrong.

In one of the episodes of the Expanse, the's a similar scene where the military leaders on earth is watching a situation with Mars unfold and due to the time delay can't issue orders in real time so they have to try to anticipate and give orders before something happens and it's very tense. I can't remember the specifics of what happened but the idea being that making the wrong call could either kick off a war(if they were too agressive) or lead to the Earth forces being destroyed(if they weren't agressive enough).
It's in season 2, in the adaptation of Caliban's War. Pretty much a straight riff on the Cuban missile crisis. The MCRN has multiple stealth ships capable of a first-strike nuclear launch capable of turning the Earth's surface into a sheet of glowing green glass, and the UN only has a handful of satellites capable of detecting them and a planetary defense rail gun network. The UN Navy needs to detect all the ships and launch a timed railgun attack that destroys all the stealth ships simultaneously, before any of them retaliate -- or before Mars initiated that first strike in the first place.

(It doesn't work.)

It's actually a pretty stupid setup and none of the logic of it works, if you think about it. Which is why that scenario wasn't in the book in the first place.

Instead, the books go at length about how nuclear weapons really aren't politically or strategically influential any more. The ultimate equalizer (and source of mutually-assured destruction) is simply stealth-coating asteroids (which is less of a big deal in the books than the show), attaching Epstein drives or fusion torches to them, and aiming them at your target gravity well. And, how if Mars, Earth, or the Belt pushed any of the other powers too hard or kickstarted a cycle of revenge with too great fervor, it was certain to happen eventually...and how humanity's interdependence on each other was the only thing that kept anyone from having done it already.

No small part of Miller's chapters (in Leviathan Wakes, the very first book) are dedicated to driving home how it's only a matter of time before someone, somewhere, starts throwing rocks and ends it all. The middle-aged, washed-out, high-functioning alcoholic detective can figure it out for himself, and the books drive it home that since he can, anyone with the education, experience, or resources to actually do it, figured it out a long time ago. Avasarala's chapters in Caliban's War only reinforce it, because her entire thing is to deescalate the Earth-Mars-Belt conflict before it gets to that point...although with the protomolecule being weaponized and at work on Venus, the point rock-throwing may be the best-available alternative is equally made.
 
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BrawlMan

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"If this band's music appears in a television commercial or summer blockbuster movie trailer, I need to look back and consider if this band was ever really that good."
I ain't that cynical. I don't expect every song I love to appear in a TV ad, game trailer, or blockbuster trailer, but I am sure as hell not judge or be anal about it appearing in something I dislike (usually). A good song, can be used for a crappy movie or movie trailer, etc. That's happened more times than I care to count.
 

Eacaraxe

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I ain't that cynical. I don't expect every song I love to appear in a TV ad, game trailer, or blockbuster trailer, but I am sure as hell not judge or be anal about it appearing in something I dislike (usually). A good song, can be used for a crappy movie or movie trailer, etc. That's happened more times than I care to count.
I'm not saying the bands and songs are necessarily bad, for having appeared in trailers or commercials. I just treat it as a cue for me to take a second look at it. I still love Queen and "Bohemian Rhapsody", for example, despite its unfortunate appearance in the Suicide Squad trailer.

I never liked (and still don't like) the Beastie Boys, and I didn't long before the JJ-Trek trailers sharted their music anywhere audiovisual advertisement could be found. And I'll admit, that was the cue for bringing my rule of thumb up in the first place. But, the origin of my rule of thumb was actually Bob Seger and those awful fucking Chevy commercials back in the day, because those commercials forced me to confront that I kinda liked Bob Seger before that, and come to the conclusion that no, my previously-held opinions were off, he's actually kind of crap.
 

BrawlMan

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@TheMysteriousGX, I'm borrowing this.


I already knew the movie wasn't going to be "Pixar deep" (besides Big P has had their own slip ups this past few years), but that's not a bad thing. Not every film needs to be exactly like Dreamworks, Pixar, Ghilbi, etc. That's just dumb, putting too much unrealistic expectations on a studio for something they're not after, nor trying to achieve. It's all the more the better when an animation studio or any piece of media goes out and do their own thing. While some aspects of the Mario Bros. movie plays it safe, the movie still does some risks. Peach is in a more proactive role, and more skilled than Mario, but not an overpowered character. Luigi gets captures for literally half the movie. No one was expecting Bowser to be singing a piano ballad and simping for the princess that hard. Which is something taken from the later mainline Mario games and some of its spin-offs. The Bowser having a crush on Peach part; not the piano ballad part. Mario Bros. did its own thing, and everybody with actual sense won. We got an S rank movie adaption that respects the source material, doesn't waste the viewers/audiences time, and just embraces what it is and what it can do. Because of that, Illumination got their reward and more following later.

 
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BrawlMan

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I'm not saying the bands and songs are necessarily bad, for having appeared in trailers or commercials. I just treat it as a cue for me to take a second look at it.
Still not the best method, nor is fool proof. I can decide for myself without having a trailer or commercial help me.

I never liked (and still don't like) the Beastie Boys, and I didn't long before the JJ-Trek trailers sharted their music anywhere audiovisual advertisement could be found. And I'll admit, that was the cue for bringing my rule of thumb up in the first place.
I never gave a damn about the JJ Trek films beforehand, and them using Beastie Boys in their trailer for the 3rd movie did nothing for me. I never had any interest in any of the films, and continue to enjoy the BBs on my own time without provocation.

But, the origin of my rule of thumb was actually Bob Seger and those awful fucking Chevy commercials back in the day, because those commercials forced me to confront that I kinda liked Bob Seger before that, and come to the conclusion that no, my previously-held opinions were off, he's actually kind of crap.
I vaguely remember those, and I don't know much about Bob Seger...

Wait a minute! I remember these commercials now! They came on a lot during the 90s! Especially during the early 90s.

 

TheMysteriousGX

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I already knew the movie wasn't going to be "Pixar deep", but that's not a bad thing. Not every film needs to be exactly like Dreamworks, Pixar, Ghilbi, etc. That's just dumb putting too much unrealistic expectations on a studio for something they're not after nor trying to achiece. It's all the more the better when an animation studio or any piece of media goes out and do their own thing. While some aspects of the Mario Bros. movie plays it safe, the movie still does some risks. Peach is in a more proactive role, and more skilled than Mario, but not an overpowered character. No one was expecting Bowser to be singing a piano ballad and simping for the princess that hard. Which is something taken from the later mainline Mario games and some of its spin-offs. The Bowser having a crush on Peach part; not the piano ballad part. Mario Bros. did its own thing, and everybody with actual sense won. We got an S rank movie adaption that respects the source material, doesn't waste the viewers/audiences time, and just embraces what it is and what it can do. Because of that, Illumination got their reward and more following later.
Hey, that's great for the layman's "do I like the movie" review. Some of my favorite movies are 2.5/5 star movies

But, like, you also can't fault critics for comparing the animated kid's movie to other animated kid's movies, you know?
 
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BrawlMan

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Hey, that's great for the layman's "do I like the movie" review. Some of my favorite movies are 2.5/5 star movies

But, like, you also can't fault critics for comparing the animated kid's movie to other animated kid's movies, you know?
One of my favorite movies has a 6.3/10. That movie is a least an 8/10 or B, if we're using a grading scale.

There were literally critics complaining about this movie for having too much ninja stuff in it. I wish was making this up. Good luck finding most of the links at this point.
 

BrawlMan

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But, like, you also can't fault critics for comparing the animated kid's movie to other animated kid's movies, you know?
While some comparisons are warranted, there is a problem when you go in for overly, high, super narrow "expectations". There are animated movies better than some of Pixar's output. Regardless, if it's "deep/Pixar deep" or not. Those are nothing more than buzzwords at this point to cause divide and full of snobbery. Keep in mind, I am not hardcore fan of Illumination either. I do have thing for Dreamworks Animation, but most of that is their 2D projects from the late 90s and early 2000s. Still though, Dreamworks learned their lesson what works and what doesn't at least try something different or put a different spin every now and then.
 

Eacaraxe

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I vaguely remember those, and I don't know much about Bob Seger...

Wait a minute! I remember these commercials now! They came on a lot during the 90s! Especially during the early 90s.
Yup, that's them. They're forever embedded in my memory specifically due to how terrible that generation of Chevy trucks were, and how more insufferable Chevy drivers were for it.

"Yessir I got me a Chev-ro-lay! The greatest pickup truck God ever graced to give humanity! Them Ford and Dodge heathens just don't know what a good truck is!" typically said in front of a truck that's not even a year old, with peeling paint, a body already rusting off the frame, welds already cracking, that won't start or shift gears without a fight, needs a good run-up to pull a trailer up a slight grade without downshifting or redlining, and anti-lock brakes that are good for approximately one thing (locking up).

I mean the early '90s were a bad time for any pickup not made by Toyota, but at least Ford and Dodge drivers were willing to admit their trucks were shit-buckets with a drivetrain.
 
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Gergar12

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In Star Wars, Bo-Katan will lead Mandalore, and many people are mad because DIn/Mando isn't leading it. Good Din should be exploring the galaxy, and do you really want Mando to sit on a chair on all day and not do any exploring or fight Grand Admiral Thrawn with Ahsoka? Why the fuck do we care if someone else becomes Mandalore the Whatever/the leader of all the Mandalorians.
 
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Eacaraxe

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In Star Wars, Bo-Katan will lead Mandalore, and many people are mad because DIn/Mando isn't leading it. Good Din should be exploring the galaxy, and do you really want Mando to sit on a chair on all day and not do any exploring or fight Grand Admiral Thrawn with Ahsoka? Why the fuck do we care if someone else becomes Mandalore the Whatever/the leader of all the Mandalorians.
Probably because that's not really at what they're angry. It's kind of a mish-mash of misplaced (and as is usually the case, deliberately misinterpreted in bad faith) criticisms with the recent season. Bo-Katan becoming the new Mandalore had been foreshadowed and built towards since The Clone Wars, and it's the payoff to a storyline that at this point is fifteen years old. Very few if any people have a problem with that, in a vacuum.

They're frustrated it's a low-key bait-and-switch and Bo-Katan is increasingly the focus on the show nominally about a totally different character. Much as Book of Boba Fett took the spotlight away from the titular character, and onto Din, Fennec, and with segues on Grogu's training with Luke. A lot of fans, myself included, feel it's selling a popular, established, lore character like Bo-Katan short, especially with Katee Sackhoff -- who happened to be the actress most of us already wanted to see as Bo-Katan -- playing her. Sackhoff would easily be able to carry a mini-series or made-for-streaming Bo-Katan movie.

Add this to a season that's in the weeds, following Book of Boba Fett, and it's easy to see why and how fans are displeased with it.