MovieBob leaving The Escapist

Lono Shrugged

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DugMachine said:
Vigormortis said:
Stopped reading after you still think the troubles that the black community face are in some way equal to the plight of white straight male gamers. I understand you're using them as an example of two communities facing sweeping generalizations but it's a bad one. Change it and I may take you seriously
I think you should finish reading his post before you ask him to change it to suit your capricious demands for what is acceptable. For the record, what comparisons are not forbidden in your book? How best can we express ourselves to you? Or will you continue to be wilfully combative with people trying to engage you in discussion.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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DugMachine said:
Because I want to understand why it's a big deal. You may think I'm patronizing but I genuinely do not understand what the issue is. IIRC did this not all start because somebody slept with someone or another over some obscure indie game for a pretty mediocre article and then suddenly the whole of gaming journalism was corrupt and the two sides started going for each others throats? Like, how did something so trivial turn into the bloodbath its become today?

For an outsider it seems like the only reason the battle rages on is because the piss babies who send death/rape threats on both sides won't let up.
to me its just the pent up impotent rage of people whose identities are so tied with "gaming" and being a "gamer" (saw the same thing when Sarkeesian popped up, now it just has a name) hell I've *almost* been there myself, its not pretty when one's' interests and sense of self are so narrow

a cracked article from the other day explained it nicley http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-we-need-to-take-video-game-addiction-seriously/ (even if JF Sargent did write that terrible videogame article years ago)

faefrost said:
"self loathing gamer" Bob might be an excellent case study.
there's nothing self loathing about pointing out the shitty behavior self proclaimed "gamers" have exhibited, technically I'd be self lothing...except I'm not, I'm just slightly embarrassed to share a hobby with all those man children

and Bob may be a lot of things, he's not a mysoganist
 

Tojumaru

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DugMachine said:
Vigormortis said:
Stopped reading after you still think the troubles that the black community face are in some way equal to the plight of white straight male gamers. I understand you're using them as an example of two communities facing sweeping generalizations but it's a bad one. Change it and I may take you seriously
Good, quote mining an otherwise fine example, than going on a tangent AND an ad hominem attack. You clearly are a MovieBob fan, you employ the same strategies.

My suggestion for anyone reading this: ignore him. He does not care about debating anything he just goes on his own strawmen and ends up arguing with himself.
 

Spaceman Spiff

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I'm kind of surprised that Bob's contract got cancelled after losing so many staff and contributors. I'll miss his comic book insight, but definitely won't miss his political, social, MoS, ASM, or DKR rants. I hope that somebody else starts doing reviews for Walking Dead, Agent Carter, Agents of SHIELD, and movies. I do enjoy Marshall Lemon's Archer reviews.
 

DugMachine

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Lono Shrugged said:
DugMachine said:
Vigormortis said:
Stopped reading after you still think the troubles that the black community face are in some way equal to the plight of white straight male gamers. I understand you're using them as an example of two communities facing sweeping generalizations but it's a bad one. Change it and I may take you seriously
I think you should finish reading his post before you ask him to change it to suit your capricious demands for what is acceptable. For the record, what comparisons are not forbidden in your book? How best can we express ourselves to you? Or will you continue to be wilfully combative with people trying to engage you in discussion.
I did eventually read the rest as I read your own post. I am getting a better understanding of why you're all so upset over the issue but I can't help but cringe when GGers compare their issues to that of the black community. They're not in any way similar or even in the same ballpark. I'm not sure what else you can use but don't compare yourselves to minorities that suffer true discrimination.
 

DugMachine

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Tojumaru said:
DugMachine said:
Vigormortis said:
Stopped reading after you still think the troubles that the black community face are in some way equal to the plight of white straight male gamers. I understand you're using them as an example of two communities facing sweeping generalizations but it's a bad one. Change it and I may take you seriously
Good, quote mining an otherwise fine example, than going on a tangent AND an ad hominem attack. You clearly are a MovieBob fan, you employ the same strategies.

My suggestion for anyone reading this: ignore him. He does not care about debating anything he just goes on his own strawmen and ends up arguing with himself.
Go ahead and ignore me then. I've no intentions of taking any sort of mention of black issues = GG crap in any way serious.

And not everything is a debate. I was curious why people cared so much about the GG issue and a few have already explained it. One tried using a stupid hypothetical of what if black people were all called rapists! Not even on the same fucking planet.
 

Savagezion

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MarsAtlas said:
So, whats everybody still visiting? I got Critical Miss and Experienced Points remaining.
Experienced Points and Game Theory for me. I know Game Theory is pretty much YouTube rereuns but I love that guy's humor as well as his theories and I cant help but watch the episode of the week when I drop by. That dude is a true game overthinker. Sometimes Yahtzee has a topic I care enough to watch or read about.

I miss Doraleous and Associates. Right now though, I agree the site is aching for content. I didn't really watch Bob as I disagree a lot. Hopefully, the site has a plan to cover the traffic he probably generated.
 

Daniel Ferguson

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Many of my favourite escapist shows are not here any more; it's not the end for them, but this place does feel a bit emptier with them gone, like tent poles are being removed and I'm waiting for the next ones.
 

faefrost

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Vault101 said:
DugMachine said:
faefrost said:
"self loathing gamer" Bob might be an excellent case study.
there's nothing self loathing about pointing out the shitty behavior self proclaimed "gamers" have exhibited, technically I'd be self lothing...except I'm not, I'm just slightly embarrassed to share a hobby with all those man children

and Bob may be a lot of things, he's not a mysoganist
I would suggest you go rewatch Bob's first video on The Escapist. Pay attention to his views on Meagan Fox and Devin Aoki.
 

Ralancian

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faefrost said:
I would suggest you go rewatch Bob's first video on The Escapist. Pay attention to his views on Meagan Fox and Devin Aoki.
God I hate defending Bob in anyway shape or form but isn't he allowed to grow as a person in what is it? 6 years whilst not quite that time I know if people dragged up ridiculous shit I said 13-14 years aggo on the internet I call myself some improper names!
 

Silvanus

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Strazdas said:
If you say pirates are bad, it means that pirates are bad, whereas not all humans are pirates. if you say dudebros are bad it means that dudebros are bad whereas not all gamers are dudebros. if you say gamers are bad then you include both dudebros and non-dudebros gamers.
Precisely! And since Bob spoke about "conservabros", not all gamers were included in that.
 

Lono Shrugged

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Ralancian said:
faefrost said:
I would suggest you go rewatch Bob's first video on The Escapist. Pay attention to his views on Meagan Fox and Devin Aoki.
God I hate defending Bob in anyway shape or form but isn't he allowed to grow as a person in what is it? 6 years whilst not quite that time I know if people dragged up ridiculous shit I said 13-14 years aggo on the internet I call myself some improper names!
He did it very recently with Scarlett Johansson. The problem is not so much that Bob objectified those women in such a crass way. It's that he seemingly champions gender equality while drooling over pictures of nearly nude photos of actresses. It's pretty tacky. This is a guy presenting himself as a moral authority. He needs to be called out on his bullshit and account for it.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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MarsAtlas said:
So, whats everybody still visiting? I got Critical Miss and Experienced Points remaining.
ZP, Extra Punctuation and Unskippable. So far the only thing I'm missing is Lisa's Top 5.
Now she's hosting a mixed martial arts news program. Talk about malleability.
 

happyninja42

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Lono Shrugged said:
Ralancian said:
faefrost said:
I would suggest you go rewatch Bob's first video on The Escapist. Pay attention to his views on Meagan Fox and Devin Aoki.
God I hate defending Bob in anyway shape or form but isn't he allowed to grow as a person in what is it? 6 years whilst not quite that time I know if people dragged up ridiculous shit I said 13-14 years aggo on the internet I call myself some improper names!
He did it very recently with Scarlett Johansson. The problem is not so much that Bob objectified those women in such a crass way. It's that he seemingly champions gender equality while drooling over pictures of nearly nude photos of actresses. It's pretty tacky. This is a guy presenting himself as a moral authority. He needs to be called out on his bullshit and account for it.
I would agree with this statement, if it wasn't for the fact that women do it too. Both sexes talk about equality, and then openly describe the celebrities they find sexually attractive. There's nothing wrong with commenting on how an actor or actress is really damn sexy, when they are made up to be really damn sexy. The problem is if that is the only trait they present in the movie, then there's not much else to say. And sadly in a lot of movies, the female characters are written to be mostly eye candy, and that's it. And no matter how good the actress is, if they don't have anything to work with in the script, they don't have anything to improve on. It is perfectly fine for someone to talk about wanting to have more female characters in cinema, doing more significant parts, and also saying that you find them really fucking hot. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
 

Ralancian

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Lono Shrugged said:
Ralancian said:
faefrost said:
I would suggest you go rewatch Bob's first video on The Escapist. Pay attention to his views on Meagan Fox and Devin Aoki.
God I hate defending Bob in anyway shape or form but isn't he allowed to grow as a person in what is it? 6 years whilst not quite that time I know if people dragged up ridiculous shit I said 13-14 years aggo on the internet I call myself some improper names!
He did it very recently with Scarlett Johansson. The problem is not so much that Bob objectified those women in such a crass way. It's that he seemingly champions gender equality while drooling over pictures of nearly nude photos of actresses. It's pretty tacky. This is a guy presenting himself as a moral authority. He needs to be called out on his bullshit and account for it.
Oh I totally agree agree just pointing out it's unfair on the guy to bring up something he did ages ago. He by all accounts has said deplorable things in recent events and those are what he should be held accountable for. It's too east to bat away criticism whith "Christ, I said like 6 years ago I'm a different person now."
 

Ralancian

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Happyninja42 said:
I would agree with this statement, if it wasn't for the fact that women do it too. Both sexes talk about equality, and then openly describe the celebrities they find sexually attractive. There's nothing wrong with commenting on how an actor or actress is really damn sexy, when they are made up to be really damn sexy. The problem is if that is the only trait they present in the movie, then there's not much else to say. And sadly in a lot of movies, the female characters are written to be mostly eye candy, and that's it. And no matter how good the actress is, if they don't have anything to work with in the script, they don't have anything to improve on. It is perfectly fine for someone to talk about wanting to have more female characters in cinema, doing more significant parts, and also saying that you find them really fucking hot. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
I disagree there is a problem with it but not in the way you describe. It's okay to be anti-misogynist and find women sexy (I certainly fit under that category). It is a problem when you are on 'crusade' against misogyny and say crass stuff objectifying women. Sounds odd I know but it's part of being in the limelight if you want to work hard at doing something for the greater good you have to always show yourself to living by those standards. Otherwise your just giving people a stick to beat you with as you appear to hypocritical...as opposed to just human.
 

vagabondwillsmile

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Vigormortis said:
Vigormortis said:
DugMachine said:
Lono Shrugged said:
DugMachine said:
Vigormortis said:
Stopped reading after you still think the troubles that the black community face are in some way equal to the plight of white straight male gamers. I understand you're using them as an example of two communities facing sweeping generalizations but it's a bad one. Change it and I may take you seriously
I think you should finish reading his post before you ask him to change it to suit your capricious demands for what is acceptable. For the record, what comparisons are not forbidden in your book? How best can we express ourselves to you? Or will you continue to be wilfully combative with people trying to engage you in discussion.
I did eventually read the rest as I read your own post. I am getting a better understanding of why you're all so upset over the issue but I can't help but cringe when GGers compare their issues to that of the black community. They're not in any way similar or even in the same ballpark. I'm not sure what else you can use but don't compare yourselves to minorities that suffer true discrimination.
Ok - I'm going assume you genuinely care and are entirely earnest. Not once did Vigormortis ever say that the PLIGHT of the two groups were EQUAL. He only demonstrated that two GENERALISATIONS are ANALOGOUS in the flaw of their logic and identically structured conceit. These are completely different concepts. However, you are focusing on the former as though that is what Vigormortis said. It simply isn't the case.

Look, no one with a shred of sanity could ever claim a dispute over a luxury passtime with expensive luxury toys is in any way shape or form comparable to centuries of slavery, murder, rape and the worst of human abuses, or the continued discrimination and hate. That would be ludicrous. That is not what Vigormortis did.

Your passion is admirable. Your willingness to stand in defense of a marginalized community is commendable. But in this particular instance that passion is possibly overshadowing what Vigormotis' argument actually is.

To illustrate - please don't take this as condescending as that is not my intent - these are some examples of ANALOGOUS comparisons of identical structure with the same logical flaw. Nothing is shown or implied to be equal in any way. That isn't what analogous in context means::

All gamers are rapists. All GG'ers are rapists. All prisoners are rapists. All comic book readers are rapists. All nerds are rapists. You can take out the rapist part if you want and make other untruthful generalizations. All anime fans are lonely shut-ins. All COD players are girlfriend beating dudebros. All Nintendo gamers are children.

See, no example has any element of being equal to any other example. Only analagous. Take group x and apply sweeping untrue generalization y.

If anything Vigormortis' comparison was intended to illustrate the absudity of making generalizations and indicate the reaction people would have to one exeptionally abhorrent generaliztion.

I sincerely hope that this clears up the missunderstanding.
 

Mythandrevelry

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2HF said:
I've heard a lot of people say "Now that X is leaving I have no reason to come to the escapist", never thought it'd be me. And it won't! At least not until Yahtzee gets the boot. And even then I'll probably come out of pure habit and for general gaming news. The only videos I watch at this point are ben and bob's. So weird to have lost all the shows I did come here for. What is it about this place that drives everyone away? Gonna miss ya bob, and by that I mean I'll probably have a hard time tracking you down but when I do we'll be back in full swing.
See, I'm in the camp where - if the Escapist hadn't won me back with how it had handled certain hot button issues - Bob leaving would bring me back. And it's not because I hate his content. In fact, MovieBob used to be a big draw for me because he was and intelligent man who managed to do smart, entertaining videos.

The first problem I ran into with him was when he directly insulted the audience of certain movies because movies he liked bombed. A prime example would be The Expendables profiting within the same time frame Scott Pilgrim tanked. I don't necessarily disagree with his criticism of The Expendables, but insulting the audience is completely uncalled for, especially since intelligent people are entirely capable of enjoying schlock, and The Expendables was schlock that was made to be (at least mildly) entertaining to as large a number of people as possible, and although I didn't go to see either movie while they were in theaters, I'd take The Expendables over Scott Pilgrim any day. I haven't read the graphic novels the movie was based on, but I feel the movie was a brightly colored mess with uninteresting and largely unlikable characters. It seems like a case where the A-to-B structure of the plot remained intact but cramming it into a movie (and casting Micheal Cera - a man with no charisma whatsoever - as someone who is supposed to be a loveable douchebag) ripped the heart out of the characters and the world they inhabited.

There's two problems with that:

1. If Bob is willing to insult people like me or hold people like me in lower regard because of different tastes and opinions, he's a hypocrite who is no better than the people he so often criticizes for reacting too harshly to those with dissenting views and criticisms of other media.

2. This extended far beyond just movies and games to politics and other arenas. I originally came to the Escapist for the kind of humor and thoughtful commentary provided by Yahtzee, Extra Credits, and Shamus Young, and I got sick and tired of being put in this separate category of "lesser human being" by Moviebob whenever he held a strong stance about something that contradicted my own. Yes, he and I have never personally interacted, but if someone is going to make a broad statement about groups which I belong to which is as inflammatory as it is simplified or misinformed, I'm going to take it personally and I'm going to hold that person's analytical abilities (as well as the resultant content) in lower regard.

That Bob has strong feelings on a wide range of topics that are often in direct opposition to my own views doesn't bother me in the least. The fact that he's incapable of handling complex issues like an adult does, and I decided around two years ago that I wouldn't give pageviews or ad revenue to websites in order to talk down to, insult, and browbeat their audience.

By no means am I rejoicing that Bob isn't on this site anymore. All I'd really ask of him is to tone it down a bit and stop making everyone he disagrees with into strawmen representative of what he deems an inferior world, especially since it's hardly as simple as "I think Anita is making spurious arguments in this video..."="I'm an MRA traditionalist that wants women to go back to the kitchen and never play, make, or even talk about video games!" Real people are a lot more complicated than that, and I've never seen him approach these big topics with any kind of nuance. If he at least made an effort then I'd be happy to watch his videos and read his columns. As it is, I've made an effort to avoid him ever since he changed the format of his Game Overthinker series, and that's not going to change unless he starts acting like an adult.

So all in all, I support the Escapist's decision, and I think that over the long haul this is a good choice because people like Bob are poisonous to a brand like this. I can't speak for everyone who has stopped coming here in the last year or two, but I'm one person who is back on board and who 100% supports this site now that it seems to be going back to what it was when I came here on a near daily basis.
 

OmegaDestroyer

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Oh wow. I had not heard that he left the Escapist. Despite not always agreeing with him, I'll miss his content, especially Shlocktober.

And with that, I guess I don't really have much reason to come to the Escapist anymore.
 

Vigormortis

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DugMachine said:
DugMachine said:
Sigh. For the umpteenth time: I am not a GamerGate supporter. I do not associate with the movement in any way, shape, or form. I do not claim to speak for GGers, in part or in whole. I wish you'd stop calling me a GGer when speaking to other posters. Please stop lying.

And as for my analogy, how about this: Let's say Bob came out and said, "All movie-goers are subhuman shits!" Would you still be confused why someone, namely a movie-goer, might take offense to his comment?

If not, I don't know what else to say, really. I don't know why you're not getting it, but you really aren't getting it. I don't know if this is due to some willful dishonesty on your part or if it's because you genuinely do not understand the difference between an analogy and a comparison. Either way, I'm done. I have no interest in having a discussion with someone who feigns curiosity and then ignores the replies.[footnote]Especially if that person thinks rational thinking is a bad thing.[/footnote] Or, at worst, twists them into something they aren't so you can embolden or rationalize your original position.

Good day to you.