Music = art?

[BallPtPenTheif]

All music is art, although, I am seriously stretching that for rap. Most other music types have some sort of musical instrument, people singing, stuff like that. A lot of the rap around now is just people talking with a computer to make some sort of drum beat.

That in of itself does not disqualify it as a valid medium of art. Seriously, look at what you are saying. Because it uses computers? Because someone talks? So apparently anything in photoshop and spoken poetry are no longer art forms.

I honestly feel that people despise rap out of subcultural or ethnocentric differences (i am not alluding to racism.. i'm being specific for a reason) and then work backwards to rationalize it.

 

[jdog345]

All music is art. The music I dislike is still art, but crappy art.

 

[CIA]

All music is art. The music I dislike is still art, but crappy art.

I love this post!

You sir, win.

 

[CIA]

You must admit it takes a certain amount of lyrical dexterity to rap. Also you must admit that it is not easy to think up lyrics. These are the things you must admit. It has been spoken.

I would call that poetry, not music. Poetry is art, but poetry is not music. So it has been spoken, so it shall be.

Poetry + Beat = Music. The wise words of the Central Intelligence Agency rain down from the heavens onto thee. (I like this new godly form of argument)

 

[Rusty Bucket]

The only music which is art is the music that culturally important people say is art.

I am in a state of utmost horror at this post. So you can't think for yourself when it comes to art? You need people to tell you what it is? What's wrong with the dictionary definition of art? According to that music is art. Who are these culturally important people (give me names)?

 

[CIA]

Poetry + Beat = Music. The wise words of the Central Intelligence Agency rain down from the heavens onto thee. (I like this new godly form of argument)

Poetry plus beat does not equal music, it is just poetry with a drum behind it, like those people at coffee shops.

I dunno about that. I think you personally don't like it therefore you deny its musical status. It is culturally accepted as music, therefore it is music.

What these people do at coffee shops sounds like music but I must confess that I have no idea what you're talking about.

(So spoke the wise, omnipotent lord)

I am in a state of utmost horror at this post. So you can't think for yourself when it comes to art? You need people to tell you what it is? What's wrong with the dictionary definition of art? According to that music is art. Who are these culturally important people (give me names)?

I think he was kidding. I'm not sure though.

 

[Mizaki]

Calling music art is unfair because suddenly people expect it to be 'artful'. And alot of the time 'artful' is a direct translation to 'pretentious and geared toward my culture/persona/stereotype'. Thus, people will never fully grasp how great music truely is because they're so stuck in their little holes of what is artful or tasteful and what isn't. There are a few that can at least accept it in any form, but I often see people trashing things just for being..different from them. Like when a rocker bashes on rap, when a rap fan bashes on anything that isn't rap, when metalheads bash on all non-metal things, and when non-metal listeners refer to metal as 'pointless noise'. It's so unfair, and I wish that there could be at least more than a few people that don't hear music with their brains, hearts, or their skin. What about ears?

So, as a whole, I'm saying that music is only art if the person intends it. If what they want to do is sing for the hell of it, fine. If they want to impress people, whatever. But if they intend for the listener to interperet it, to appreciate it, and to admire it, then it is most definately art. I think it works for all of 'the arts'. When I draw something, I don't really consider it to be art. I think of it as.. a drawing. Because it's simply just that to me.

I kinda wish I could say this to the whole internet.

 

[Marbas]

Trying to define art is a scholarly debate that has been raging for years. Unlike science ,which is clearly defined as being provable and repeatable, art means different things to different people. So I am going to define art as anything that is not science ie not provable or repeatable. You can't rigorously prove music is good, as all you need it one person with different taste to say "no it is not" to prove false/inconclusive. If some one else were to repeat the exact same steps to make a song as the original creator, it almost certainly would not be a success. Hence music is art because it is defiantly not science.

Art's already been defined by scholars though.

Protip: Everybody start talking about postmodernism blurring the distinction between high and low art! Or at least that's how you should react when Eggo starts talking about art.

All music is art, although, I am seriously stretching that for rap. Most other music types have some sort of musical instrument, people singing, stuff like that. A lot of the rap around now is just people talking with a computer to make some sort of drum beat.

What about this? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGzrL8J0t-c]

 

[Siuss]

art
1
?noun
1. the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2. the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3. a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
4. the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture.
5. any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.
6. (in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story?
7. the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling.
8. the craft or trade using these principles or methods.
9. skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation.
10. a branch of learning or university study, esp. one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.
11. arts,
a. (used with a singular verb) the humanities: a college of arts and sciences.
b. (used with a plural verb) liberal arts.
12. skilled workmanship, execution, or agency, as distinguished from nature.
13. trickery; cunning: glib and devious art.
14. studied action; artificiality in behavior.
15. an artifice or artful device: the innumerable arts and wiles of politics.
16. Archaic. science, learning, or scholarship.

So, yeah as you can see music is an art. Most people just don't know what art is.

 

[O maestre]

techno and electronic music is a bit iffy, since art for me is something that is manifested(made by hand) and art is supposed to reflect what the artist sees in the real world, which will cause the listener(in this case) too reflect upon the world, himself/herself or a condition

dj'ing is not art.(period)

You do realize that Dj'ing is not equal to electronic music, right? I'm assuming you've heard of wedding DJ's or radio DJ's. And I hope you also realize that not all electronic music is the 4-4 repetitive club/rave music that unfortunately saturates the genre. In fact, electronic music really is either very real sounds being conducted in an electronic environment, or being synthesized with an instrument that's not unlike a piano.

As for, "and art is supposed to reflect what the artist sees in the real world"... well, that's just flat out false.

first of all, granted not all electronic is techno stomping, but that is what i was aiming at, which is why i also wrote that techno and electronic was a bit iffy to define as art or not. in other words we agreed...three times now

second of all, when i meant dj'ing i was talking about people scratching records and mixing and mish mashing music

in spite of the fine post that siuss made quoting the dictionary, i have to ask you personally to define what an artist does exactly, since my assumption is irrevocably wrong according to you

 

[MawnLower]

Absolutely.

 

[superbleeder12]

I view music as an art form. Art, by its very nature does not and can not appeal to everyone, because everyone has different taste.

and to those who are nay-saying electronic music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQEmaj9C6ko&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygw2zmEVsvc

this coming from a person that until a while ago rather hated electronic music.

 

[TehCookie]

To me (musical) art is being able to put a rhythm and beat together (call and reply and lead and support, currently forgot the actual band term for them) also well written lyrics are art if you can read them without the music and still think its good and of course with music its great (so pretty much most music but rap)

 

[jezz8me]

techno and electronic music is a bit iffy, since art for me is something that is manifested(made by hand) and art is supposed to reflect what the artist sees in the real world, which will cause the listener(in this case) too reflect upon the world, himself/herself or a condition

dj'ing is not art.(period)

DJ ing not art? You have to listen to the more experimental electronic music, noise and all the wonderful things that can be done with samples and synth's.

Check out Christian Marclay and tell me he is not an artist.

All music is art. Some is more classically arty but if you have to question whether it is art or not in my opinion it is art.

I listen to everything from jazz to noise and there is no genre with no musicians with artisic merit. Even if they sound like shit.

 

[Ursus Astrorum]

Art exists to convey emotions and tell stories.

Music does just that, even stuff like techno and NIN.

That being said, how many hos you've slapped and cops you've shot isn't art. It's more like that "modern" art where someone threw a paint can at a wall and expected to get a million bucks for it. Not that I'm dissing rap. Back in the old days, rap used to have a message to it. Not anymore, though.

 

[jezz8me]

Art exists to convey emotions and tell stories.

Music does just that, even stuff like techno and NIN.

That being said, how many hos you've slapped and cops you've shot isn't art. It's more like that "modern" art where someone threw a paint can at a wall and expected to get a million bucks for it. Not that I'm dissing rap. Back in the old days, rap used to have a message to it. Not anymore, though.

Someone throwing paint on a wall and trying to sell it for millions could be making a statement about the consumerism of art and that anything can be passed off as a masterpiece no matter how much skill effort and finesse was involed in the making. That sounds like art to me.

So bad example. And just because something seems like a piece of crap just thrown together it can still be art.

 

[Ursus Astrorum]

Art exists to convey emotions and tell stories.

Music does just that, even stuff like techno and NIN.

That being said, how many hos you've slapped and cops you've shot isn't art. It's more like that "modern" art where someone threw a paint can at a wall and expected to get a million bucks for it. Not that I'm dissing rap. Back in the old days, rap used to have a message to it. Not anymore, though.

Someone throwing paint on a wall and trying to sell it for millions could be making a statement about the consumerism of art and that anything can be passed off as a masterpiece no matter how much skill effort and finesse was involed in the making. That sounds like art to me.

So bad example. And just because something seems like a piece of crap just thrown together it can still be art.

Point being, it's not good art. At least in my opinion.

 

[TerraMGP]

The only music which is art is the music that culturally important people say is art.

So this is the criteria you were trying to argue? Eggo this is the dumbest, most eleitist view on art I have ever heard.

All music is art, some pomous asses say that some specific music is 'REAL' art because they have taken classes from some other pompous asses and have reached the same short sighted conclusions but in the end Art is any expression of the human spirit though a medium. its an attempt to show things that cannot be simply verbalized, or sometimes even a show of what CAN be verbalized in some way. I don't think all art is GOOD art but then again art is subjective so its GOOD to those who find it good. There is no algorithm or formula for 'good art' so in the end its all personal taste

 

[Marbas]

It's so cute when a middle schooler pretends to be an engineer who actually knows something about culture and culturally derived forms of human expression.

He claimed to be an engineer? Where?

Also I thought that with the advent of postmodernism that the distinction between "high art" and "low art" was rendered pointless.

 

[TerraMGP]

The only music which is art is the music that culturally important people say is art.

So this is the criteria you were trying to argue? Eggo this is the dumbest, most eleitist view on art I have ever heard.

All music is art, some pomous asses say that some specific music is 'REAL' art because they have taken classes from some other pompous asses and have reached the same short sighted conclusions but in the end Art is any expression of the human spirit though a medium. its an attempt to show things that cannot be simply verbalized, or sometimes even a show of what CAN be verbalized in some way. I don't think all art is GOOD art but then again art is subjective so its GOOD to those who find it good. There is no algorithm or formula for 'good art' so in the end its all personal taste

It's so cute when a middle schooler pretends to be an engineer who actually knows something about culture and culturally derived forms of human expression.

The problem is that you don't provide a functional and cross cultural definition of what art (or music for that matter) is. Not all organized sound produced by humans is music and not all music is art.

That's not surprising at all though, since you have no actual knowledge about or interest for music or art. In an effort to not waste everyone's time, just leave this sort of discussion to those who do. Consider this my last attempt at satiating the appetite of your little troll mind. Thanks!

Your the expert, Show me where its not, not just from what you say but from the standpoint of the industry as a whole. unless you can show me a specific set institution with specific set guidelines then your argument is false. It IS art unless you can prove otherwise.

The burden of proof is on you as you claim to be the 'expert'.