Music Elitists

Alexander Bradley

New member
Dec 31, 2010
67
0
0
I'm willing to listen to good music, but I'm also willing to acknowledge when something is a piece of shit. Justin Bieber's work is complete shit on a level where it's constant pandering to a demographic that cares more about the aesthetics of his music (ie: sexy singer + loud bass = fist-pumping awesome). But there are others, like the aforementioned Black Dog, where it's revered as a classic hit because of the melody and since it was a more iconic song from Zepplin other than Kashmir and Immigrant Song.

Personally, I'll listen to anything as long as I can tell the musician/artist actually put work behind it all. You can't just half-ass it and either only put in a catchy progression or some slightly intelligent lyrics. Otherwise, you're just slapping me in the face with your dick while insinuating that you'd be able to write any old piece of garbage, put it on a disk, and sell it to me because I'm that much of a mindless numb-skull to where I'll just listen to whatever I can fuck to.
 

Goofguy

New member
Nov 25, 2010
3,864
0
0
Because when you're quoting Zeppelin lyrics, you ultimately fail to:

1. Convey how Robert sang said lyrics.
2. Mention how Page, Jonesy and Bonzo contributed (in no small part) to the song as well.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
unrelated but can somone give me an example (or comparison) of the somthing that is very musically/technically complex compared to somthing that isnt?
 

MonkeyGH

New member
Jul 4, 2011
142
0
0
I don't care for classic rock much, but I do enjoy Prog metal, among other sub-genres of metal. Maybe I can shed some light.

I wouldn't really consider myself an elitist, but I do enjoy some music more than others, for 2 reasons.

1. Technicality
I'm a musician and this is something I've learned to enjoy in music over a period of time. Bands like Periphery, In Flames, BTAM, HAARP Machine, etc. are particular favorites. So when I do hear a mainstream song, I don't really enjoy it because they tend to be catchy. There's nothing wrong with being catchy, but catchy doesn't always mean it's musically interesting, IMO.

2. Lyrical content
Mainstream music (at least, the stuff my friends constantly play or what I hear on the radio) tends to have some shallow lyrical content. Some of it I just don't appreciate (I.E., sex, drugs, women, alcohol, money) and some of I just don't "get". I like to be able to get behind what the artist intended with their lyrics. Bands like Hatebreed and Killswitch Engage (among others) have lyrics themed around, redemption, perserverence, etc.

With that being said, not all mainstream songs/artists fall within that category. But in my experience, most do.

So I guess I would agree with these so-called elitists, but I'm not going to bash other people's choice in music just because I don't understand the appeal. :/ (That being said, I'm not going to listen to it. Sorry. :p)

EDIT: One last thing, their does seem to be a line between musicians and regular listeners.
 

MonkeyGH

New member
Jul 4, 2011
142
0
0
Vault101 said:
unrelated but can somone give me an example (or comparison) of the somthing that is very musically/technically complex compared to somthing that isnt?
:)

Not very technical --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

Pretty technical --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJWuXfiXYI0
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
19,316
0
0
Vault101 said:
unrelated but can somone give me an example (or comparison) of the somthing that is very musically/technically complex compared to somthing that isnt?
Want anything specific? I'm pretty good at this.

Here's a Classical comparison.

Here is the first movement of Beethoven's Pathetique.

<youtube=79gzdskOGu4>

It starts slow, but shows great range in dynamics (volume), with sudden runs and lots of self-resolving dissonance and a bit of counterpoint (but mostly harmony). Then, around the 1:50 mark, it enters the "OH LAWD MAH FINGERS" section, where the left hand is literally setting the pace and the right hand is simply meant to keep up. It has dozens of runs, trills, asserted chords, chord-runs (the thought of those make me wince), and LOTS of dynamic-and-tempo change.

Now, on the other hand, we have Muzio Clementi's training pieces.

<youtube=9es11bhipl4>

Dynamics are fairly static, with only a couple changes. Tempo never changes. An easy (almost solo) theme is easily picked out, and repeated and varied throughout the piece. At any given time, no more than two notes are played. It's excellent for learning basics of piano (I remember actually playing this one when I played piano).

Did you want something less drastic than that?
 

RingaFiar

New member
Mar 12, 2011
132
0
0
To the OP: It doesn't matter what type of music you like as long as you enjoy it. If you're young this rule sounds odd, but if you're in your thirties+ then go for the 10 year rule.

Basically that means: I can enjoy new music but for a song to last ten years means there must be something about it right? It's eye opening honestly! I find liking songs I hated earlier (on principle) and just generally not being so bothered about what's good or bad, just what I personally like.

An odd ramble from myself, and a badly explained point of view, but basically, if you like it, sod everyone else, as long as it's a good song.
 

NoeL

New member
May 14, 2011
841
0
0
Stalkingpanda14 said:
How is Led Zeppelin IV an artistic masterpiece? Black Dog's lyrics go
Lyrics =/= music. If we're talking about poetry you could make the argument Black Dog is "bad art", but we're not talking about poetry. Black Dog's majesty is in its sound.

I like music that, while not necessarily that technical, is epic and layered. Listen to Ghost Love Score or Creek Mary's Blood by Nightwish. I don't know or care what they're singing about, it just sounds good.

SushiJaguar said:
Dude, how dare you steal my avatar! >:{ lol
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
MonkeyGH said:
:)

Not very technical --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

Pretty technical --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJWuXfiXYI0
ah...so the backing beat of that song isnt very musically complex? (I mean aside form the fact that no one is physically playing it) I guess I can kind of see that
lacktheknack said:
Did you want something less drastic than that?
thats some fuckin piano playing 0_0.....

perhaps more mainstream/contemporay, when people talk about and point out bands they describe as technically complex (like dream theatre) I'm kind of wondering how it compares to the kind of stuff I generally like to listen too
 

el_kabong

Shark Rodeo Champion
Mar 18, 2010
540
0
0
Speaking as a musical elitist, I say that the main thing that I'm against is pre-fabricated bands/artists. Bands engineered not through their own artistic drives, but by corporations or other benefactors. When you are tailoring your look or music because it will sell more (note - not just to make it more enjoyable or to satisfy an artistic urge), you are now a prefab band/artist (at which point I stop caring about you).

A lot of people think of pop music when pre-fabrication or corporate music comes up. However, it's not exclusive to that genre. Example: often credited with being one of the greatest punk bands in history, the Sex Pistols were generated by a businessman/shop-owner named Malcolm McLaren, who convinced an existing band (the Strands, I think) to change their music and look to suit the style going on in the Manhattan punk scene that he had been exposed to. In fact, their last added member (the notorious Sid Vicious) was only picked because he looked the part (he had never previously played the instrument for which they filled the position). Every genre that has gained fame results in "THE INDUSTRY" (I wish I could add scary sound effects to that phrase) trying to turn a profit on it.

This phenomenon is not restricted to music, either. We are on a gaming website and we have all heard someone (most likely branded as an elitist) talk about how AAA developers are only releasing brown FPS games. Why? Because games like Call of Duty, at one time, filled a niche that resulted in it being extremely popular. Corporations get the scent of money and start driving themes/mechanics into the ground.

Now, in regards to being an elitist, I would say that the best thing you can do is avoid negativity. If you talk to a fan of a shitty artist you don't like and say that the stuff they like is shit and they're shitty for liking it, you won't change their opinion or the musical landscape. They'll just think you are an asshole.

If you focus on the positive and find artists that share commonalities, you may be able to convince the person to listen to some of your more "underground" choices. They'll be more enriched and you won't look like an elitist jerk.
 

MonkeyGH

New member
Jul 4, 2011
142
0
0
Vault 101,

I'm a drummer, so yes, I would say that the drum parts in both songs are very different. However, maybe I constructed my example badly because one is made using a computer (or whatever) while one is played with instruments. The piano guy has an excellent example of technicality. :)
 

BartyMae

New member
Apr 20, 2012
296
0
0
I am okay with people liking whatever they like, regardless of what it is. The only half-exception is mainstream pop...but that is not necessarily a problem with its sound, but rather the fact that the media generally pushes, shoves, and throws it at people, (us), at every possible turn, making it hard for people to explore and find other things that they might like, if they only knew about it. But that's really nothing to do with people's taste, but rather the industry as a whole, so hence why it's only a half-exception.

People can like Justin Bieber...but it's hard for me to not take that opinion with a whole lot of grains of salt when he and similar artists are the only music they really know about. *shrug*
 

MonkeyGH

New member
Jul 4, 2011
142
0
0
el_kabong said:
Couldn't agree more. I really don't understand mainstream music simply because it seems...bland? But yes, it is really tailored to the lowest common denominator.

Being a musician...I'm selfish and only want to play the kind of music I actually enjoy playing. :D
 

tautologico

e^(i * pi) + 1 = 0
Apr 5, 2010
725
0
0
This thread is fun:
- OP creates thread to oppose music elitism
- OP him/herself sounds vaguely elitist in post
- Lots of people are openly elitist in thread

Also, saying that music is "superior" due to it being technically more complex (something lots of people seem to be saying or implying in this thread) is akin to saying that a game is superior because it has better graphics.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
MonkeyGH said:
Vault 101,

I'm a drummer, so yes, I would say that the drum parts in both songs are very different. However, maybe I constructed my example badly because one is made using a computer (or whatever) while one is played with instruments. The piano guy has an excellent example of technicality. :)
yeah...I supose I ment more musically as "technically complex" can also refer to phsically playing it
 

MonkeyGH

New member
Jul 4, 2011
142
0
0
tautologico said:
This thread is fun:
- OP creates thread to oppose music elitism
- OP him/herself sounds vaguely elitist in post
- Lots of people are openly elitist in thread

Also, saying that music is "superior" due to it being technically more complex (something lots of people seem to be saying or implying in this thread) is akin to saying that a game is superior because it has better graphics.
I think a lot of people are saying they enjoy music BECAUSE of technicality.
 

Grottnikk

New member
Mar 19, 2008
338
0
0
I like music elitists. I like to pick them apart by making fun of their shit :).

You like death metal? Really? I think all their lead singers sound like the cookie monster: "graaarrr! mwarrrr! CISFORCOOKIEGOODENOUGHFORME!"

Speed Metal? Oh, you mean polka-metal! Love that stuff, man!

You like emo? Naw, too easy :)

Myself, I like most music. I'll listen to most things except rap and country, but even then there are a few songs/artists from those genres I like (seriously, who doesn't like Johnny Cash)