Music Elitists

Feb 8, 2009
355
0
0
I'm a bit guilty of this regarding Nickelback and Justin Bieber. Both artists have huge amounts of songs in their own catalog that sound alike. It's just a bit grating after a while. I try not to be a condescending prick about it, but I do like to voice my hatred for the bland music that plays on the radio all the time.

I am a musician, so I can understand that people don't demand as much from music as I do. Someone once told me that I analyze music too much instead of enjoying it. That could be true, but I get a huge kick out of analyzing music that I enjoy, and really digging into the inner workings of the song. That is what I want from music. Pop music doesn't give me that, so I don't enjoy it.

I think that anyone who shows even a little elitism, myself included, should just do their own thing and not worry about what other people enjoy. I should really take my own advice.

Ranorak said:
Because I respect their skills as musicians, not just as artists.

To me, it's infinity harder to play a good guitar solo, live, with 3 or 4 other band members while staying on key, and all on the same 1,2,3 and 4's.

Opposed to standing on stage lip-syncing while your back ground dancer put more time in their work then you ever did.

Or earning your fortune by having the auto-tune squeeze your voice is such a way that even GLaDos sounds human.

I have respect for bands like Iron Maiden, still touring, still making great albums for more then 20 years, while current pop-stars are not artists, they're products.
This sums up my feelings exactly as a musician. I can't get into something that feels like it didn't take much work. Auto-tune is disgusting.

Oh yeah. The not being an elitist thing. I failed at that.
 

likalaruku

New member
Nov 29, 2008
4,290
0
0
It's not about WHAT's popular so much as HOW it became popular. Cracked wrote an article about the music industry that people already suspected & some radio DJs have confirmed.


http://www.cracked.com/article_20256_5-things-record-labels-dont-want-you-to-know-they-do.html
 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
6,242
0
0
shadow_Fox81 said:
Frankly there isn't enough musical elitism( i'd define it differently but whatever).

there is so much music around now there is no sense of music aspiring to the sense of artistic or social potentsy it once had.So often people just find a niche and live in it (and i agree hard rock/metal is one of those groups).these niche intrests are the problems (i think this wave of indie music being the most insipid, I'm looking at JJJ here)

Very rare is it to find an appreciator of music who loves all music of quality, who can see an unroken line in musical lineage from past to present and loves it all. Elitism should be the aspiration of the music lover, but an elitism based on reason and appreciation of diversity.


Stalkingpanda14 said:
How is Led Zeppelin IV an artistic masterpiece?
yeah you'll need to start a new thread if you want to insult the 70's most brilliantly bomabstic pieces of ultra heavy blues and get away with. just listen to it properly from start to finish then when youre done we'll talk, if you didn't get it thats ok.
Don't use the word elitism to describe it, man. They mean it as that the person who is the elitist thinks he's better than everyone else. Say 'people aren't critical enough on the music scene' or what ever.

Also, would you actually believe anyone who does love all music of quality?
 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
6,242
0
0
CrunkParty said:
Nazulu said:
Oh OK. You win the fluff award for assuming how people think. Keep doing that. I'm sure you'll make lots of friends. I love how you didn't get what he was saying by the way, and that lovely assumption of how he just means "bleh, I don't like it". You do that to someones face and see how that goes.
It's pretty clear that nothing I say to you matters. I could have said anything and your reply would have largely been the same. You don't want to hear another perspective or engage in a discussion because that would conflict with the continuity you've set for yourself. You either misconstrue or outright ignore crucial points while entirely inventing ones of your own. I can't have a conversation with someone who does this.
I don't want a conversation with you. You make passive aggresive reply's and I don't care for it. And you're assuming again like usual.
 

Bestival

New member
May 5, 2012
405
0
0
We were playing Guitar Hero the other day, and the girlfriend of one of the guys there didn't look like she was greatly enjoying it. So I asked her what type of music she likes, maybe there was something along those lines in one of the games.

"Oh, I like whatever is in the Top 10." She responded. This is what gets my goat, this is not an acceptable answer. You haven't developed a taste, have no opinion of your own.


To me truly great music is when you can take the lyrics away and you're left with a great instrumental piece, and you can take the music away and the lyrics turn into an epic poem.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
shadow_Fox81 said:
Frankly there isn't enough musical elitism( i'd define it differently but whatever).

there is so much music around now there is no sense of music aspiring to the sense of artistic or social potentsy it once had.So often people just find a niche and live in it (and i agree hard rock/metal is one of those groups).these niche intrests are the problems (i think this wave of indie music being the most insipid, I'm looking at JJJ here)

Very rare is it to find an appreciator of music who loves all music of quality, who can see an unroken line in musical lineage from past to present and loves it all. Elitism should be the aspiration of the music lover, but an elitism based on reason and appreciation of diversity.
but thats the thing...people have tastes and preferences, I like different songs from a wide range of genres but there are still things I gravitate towards...like eletronic and synthy sounding stuff, stuff with a certain beat, I'm not sure I'll ever fully apreciate metal or rock even though there are a few songs from that genre I like.

this isnt only with music but with EVERYTHING

some people prefer sci fi to high fantasy, some people prefer thourghtful drama movies to action block busters, some people like to read non fiction rather than fiction, some people like the colur red, others the colur blue

its not somthing that can be helped really
 

shadow_Fox81

New member
Jul 29, 2011
410
0
0
Nazulu said:
Don't use the word elitism to describe it, man. They mean it as that the person who is the elitist thinks he's better than everyone else.

who does love all music of quality?
on elitism; though it was rather a rash choice to use the term, elitism is almost always externally ascribed to a group .The music elitist didn't put that label on themselves did they?any It was put on them as it has been on many others in many disciplines and feilds; to hurt the integrity of their convictions, knowledge, argument and love something they care deeply about.

my distaste for the term asside, i would prefer the term "professional appreciator of music" but you know any label is easily associated with the "E" word.

on the second point, Johnny cash did and he was a country musician so anyhtings possible.
 

Alleged_Alec

New member
Sep 2, 2008
796
0
0
Mick Beard said:
Spot1990 said:
Em maybe I'm wrong but this comes off as a bit elitist. You keep mentioning that you like prog rock as though that adds to your argument and then say

AC/DC and Guns n' Roses are, by my definition, pop music. They write commercial, accessible music that follows the 4 chords, verse/chorus, three minutes structure.
It sounds like "If anyone should be elitist it's me, I mean I listen to prog rock." It doesn't sound like you're criticising elitism, it sounds like you're criticising elitists who don't have your superior music taste.
Dream Theater fan, what do you expect?

i think he is justs mad that his dad called his new Dream Theater cd a piece of crap
Actually: Dream Theater has some really good songs. It's just a shame that Petrucci and Labrie are a little too prominent from time to time.


And I guess some people would call me an elitist. I generally avoid listening to top X music, most of the bands I listen to are either dead or consist mostly of septuagenarians.
I do have my reasons for this: I have a hardon for complex stuff like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6WSLG5r-wE , I don't really care for the entire music industry in the first place, but back in those days, they pretty much kept out of the process of bands doing stuff.
A few things I hate:
- Punk. I never heard a punk song I liked, but I'm also quite biased because they pretty much killed prog rock.
- Bad concerts. I love live music. It allows bands to do cool musical stuff, like Transatlantic covering most of Abbey Road in Suit Charlotte Pike, or enhance their music with imagery, as Pink Floyd did with The Wall. However, I do not want to see some mildly unattractive women prancing around in skanky clothes butchering an already bland song.
- Which follows nicely into bad autotuning. Yes, it's a fun tool when used in moderation. I'd still rather they did not use it, but when they do, they could at least pay enough attention not to fuck stuff up by making people sound like a fucking robot.
 

launchpadmcqwak

New member
Dec 6, 2011
449
0
0
thesilentman said:
Ranorak said:
Because I respect their skills as musicians, not just as artists.

To me, it's infinity harder to play a good guitar solo, live, with 3 or 4 other band members while staying on key, and all on the same 1,2,3 and 4's.

Opposed to standing on stage lip-syncing while your back ground dancer put more time in their work then you ever did.

Or earning your fortune by having the auto-tune squeeze your voice is such a way that even GLaDos sounds human.

I have respect for bands like Iron Maiden, still touring, still making great albums for more then 20 years, while current pop-stars are not artists, they're products.
You sir, have won the thread. This is the reason that music elitism and people like me, you, and the OP exist. I love Dream Theater and Pink Floyd to all hell, but I understand why people would not like them. I, like you, respect their music and the meaning of what it means to be a musician.

There's also the fact that I'm a violinist myself and good music is engrained into my bones. I hate pop music as it isn't musically sound. I can't listen to auto-tuned music and repetitive beats as my mind needs more. I NEED music with proper tone shifts. I NEED music with different takes on the scales. I NEED something that's rhythmically diverse. I NEED music that makes me feel.

I need them, as I cannot have my music any other way.

Oh sure, some people are going to still prefer pop music. Would I look at them like I'm inferior? No! Will I convict them of not getting the balls to go out of their safety net? Yes. There is good music out there that many people are flat out ignoring, and it makes me unhappy in a sense. Unhappy that because of them choosing to support the pop artists, I may not be able to enjoy and get more of what I like.
maybe...the pop music makes them feel something that your "challenging" music makes you feel?.
 

AnarchistFish

New member
Jul 25, 2011
1,500
0
0
I'm a bit of a music elitist to be honest

Although the Bieber hate pisses me off cos it's just mob rule and people copying everyone else. Often the people who complain about pop music a lot listen to equally awful music themselves.
 

CCountZero

New member
Sep 20, 2008
539
0
0
MonkeyGH said:
el_kabong said:
Couldn't agree more. I really don't understand mainstream music simply because it seems...bland? But yes, it is really tailored to the lowest common denominator.

Being a musician...I'm selfish and only want to play the kind of music I actually enjoy playing. :D
Frankly, that's not selfish at all. Look at the 60s, 70s and 80s, and think about how many youngsters started playing just because of bands like the Stones, the Who, etc.

Does anyone really think that pop music is gonna make anyone sit down and go "Hey, I want to learn how to play the guitar" or any other instrument?

Sure, we might get a whole heap of singers, and X-Factor's already doing what it can to flood us as well, but what good is that gonna do?

You need at least two musicians for every singer anyway, and even then it's not at all uncommon for break-through bands to have more than four guys on instruments.

We're basically well on our way to killing off human interest in music that doesn't come out of an Xbox.
 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
6,242
0
0
shadow_Fox81 said:
Nazulu said:
Don't use the word elitism to describe it, man. They mean it as that the person who is the elitist thinks he's better than everyone else.

who does love all music of quality?
on elitism; though it was rather a rash choice to use the term, elitism is almost always externally ascribed to a group .The music elitist didn't put that label on themselves did they?any It was put on them as it has been on many others in many disciplines and feilds; to hurt the integrity of their convictions, knowledge, argument and love something they care deeply about.

my distaste for the term asside, i would prefer the term "professional appreciator of music" but you know any label is easily associated with the "E" word.

on the second point, Johnny cash did and he was a country musician so anyhtings possible.
Yes, that has always been one of the main problems in all society's, and that's labeling others. You are 100% right that people mainly just use it to describe the people they dislike and make them sound like a villain, instead of trying to be understanding and find out where every one is coming from. It's not completely their fault though when there are so many idiots that actually fit the labels.

People like to think that others are no better at anything, when the reality is that the people who are passionate about certain hobbies realise how truly ignorant those who aren't into those things. Art is very complex we have to remember. There are many ways to judge music, but they can all be judged, just not perfectly by one person. I couldn't imagine it but it's not impossible I guess.

Did Johnny Cash really like all quality songs, quality as in all the songs certain strengths? Cause some bands write great riffs mainly, others write great lyrics, and some just put on a great perfromance. Like I said, I couldn't imagine it but it's not impossible I guess.
 

launchpadmcqwak

New member
Dec 6, 2011
449
0
0
how come in an elitists eyes, technicality is valued more than how a song is written, or how it makes you feel.
E.G Regular John by queens of the stone age gives me a way better feeling than any track on Metropolis part2 (dream theater)

(or if you want the best of both worlds you can listen to Mastodon...god they are good)
 

hazabaza1

Want Skyrim. Want. Do want.
Nov 26, 2008
9,612
0
0
I don't know why I came into this thread expecting civil discussion when the title of the damn thing describes what it will inevitably be (and was quickly) filled with.
 

Calibanbutcher

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2009
1,702
8
43
Bestival said:
We were playing Guitar Hero the other day, and the girlfriend of one of the guys there didn't look like she was greatly enjoying it. So I asked her what type of music she likes, maybe there was something along those lines in one of the games.

"Oh, I like whatever is in the Top 10." She responded. This is what gets my goat, this is not an acceptable answer. You haven't developed a taste, have no opinion of your own.


To me truly great music is when you can take the lyrics away and you're left with a great instrumental piece, and you can take the music away and the lyrics turn into an epic poem.
Well, I would agree with your last point, since it is a nice idea in and of itself, still I beg to differ.
Why?
Well, I would like to present to you the workings of the late Johnny Cash.

The music used in his songs is usually quite simplistic and nowhere near good enough to stand alone, but seeing as most of the music was written to support and accentuate his singing , I would still argue that his is truly great music, even if, or rather, especially since it would not work without his voice.
 

Froggy Slayer

New member
Jul 13, 2012
1,434
0
0
CrunkParty said:
Grottnikk said:
I like music elitists. I like to pick them apart by making fun of their shit :).

You like death metal? Really? I think all their lead singers sound like the cookie monster: "graaarrr! mwarrrr! CISFORCOOKIEGOODENOUGHFORME!"

Speed Metal? Oh, you mean polka-metal! Love that stuff, man!

You like emo? Naw, too easy :)
You've never met a music elitist in your life. Just as a little experiment, take that to /mu/ and see how it works out for you.

People in this thread seriously underestimating what these people are capable of. Nothing sways them. They're like autistic rocks.
Challenge accepted, sir! As long as they're the kind of elitists that you find on /tv/, I should be cool.
 

Playful Pony

Clop clop!
Sep 11, 2012
531
0
0
I don't much enjoy elitists of any sort... They are always dismissive of anyones opinions, and clearly consider themselves superior for often incredibly arbitrary reasons... University students, PC gamers, those who don't play CoD, rock fans and people who buy German cars come to mind. All of these people consider themselves intelectually superior to someone who isn't in their "club". Just pointing out that the only gaming platform i own is a PC, I don't play CoD and I enjoy rock music. These are just the groups where I most commonly meet what I would call an "elitist"... Of course you can't argue with elitists. They have made up their mind long before they even met you, and nothing could possibly sway them. Just like religious elitists, or "fanatics" as most people like to call them =3.

Vault101 said:
unrelated but can somone give me an example (or comparison) of the somthing that is very musically/technically complex compared to somthing that isnt?
I think a reasonably relevant example of complex vs simple music would be the stuff being made for movies and videogames in the last few decades. Take John Williams and Hans Zimmer's very famous works as an example. It has the depth, sophistication and complexity of many of the great works of the past, while holding on to the kind of strong melody that is most atractive to the human ear. Take the universally familiar Imperial March [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bzWSJG93P8], or the theme from The Dark Knight [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_DSq-LhOyU].

Most music is not nearly as comples as this, but it generally strives towards a strong and recognizable melody. For this reason, less complex and less "full" music can still be just as enjoyable so I wouldn't say complexity = superior music. Some of the most recognizable pieces of music ever are almost painfully simple. I'm sure you remember loads of those old 8-bit classics from gamings earlier life. Most modern music have a basic melody on top of a bassline, with the occasional "spice" thrown in. Hope you have your parachute pants in order! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y73PB0Hn3GI]