Muslim Should Not Equal Villain

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Fatal-X

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Feb 17, 2010
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Games simply try to find some realistic opponents to fight and in current time the Muslim fanatics who openly say that they want free counties to burn...are great for this role. So basically I can't say anything bad about killing terrorists in video games.
 

Ghostkai

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I get what you're saying Mr. OP, but in certain examples, like say ,PoP or Aladdin, isn't EVERYONE Muslim?

However, you make a fair point, though as some people have said, Russians (who are more often than not depicted as being behind an Islamic insurrection) and Germans also get it pretty rough.
 

Electrogecko

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Pugiron said:
daftnoize said:
Puddle Jumper said:
Following people would like to have a word with you on stopping to complain and get over it: Russians, Germans.
Not funny, certainly not smart!
To deny that Germans and Russians are still villains after decades is just moronic
I hope you mean "To say/imply that Germans and Russians are still villains after decades is just moronic."
 

Omnific One

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When I play CoD, do I think, goddamn, it feels good to put some Muslims in their place? No. I think, goddamn, it feels good to put some terrorists in their place.

When you say AC is balanced, I will say... hahaha, no. I only remember one somewhat "good" Christian, Maria or whatever her name was. I remember dozens of characterized or semi-characterized Muslims who were good. Plus, you were slaughtering Christians wholesale during missions. That doesn't seem at all balanced. I'm not complaining about it as I love the game even as a Christian.

Finally, the Western game companies do not portray Muslims as bad, only extremists. However, when we see headlines along the line of "Iran creating videogames attacking Zionists," that tends to hurt the position of Muslims in games. Personally, I see the importance of having varied religions but I wouldn't say that their portrayal is that bad, considering.
 

Imat

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Puddle Jumper said:
daftnoize said:
Puddle Jumper said:
Following people would like to have a word with you on stopping to complain and get over it: Russians, Germans.
Not funny, certainly not smart!
What? It's true aint it. Every time that Russians appear in a movie or a TV series, they are depicted as the big bad that needs to be overcome.

Germans in games only pop up in WORLD WAR II games and in movies and TV, germans aren't exactly spared as well.

Yet, not a lot of people complain about it beyond: Not again!
There are plenty of games featuring Germans not trying to appease Hitler. Ironically, most of them feature GSG9 or some other police/counter-terrorist force. I'd say the only "hated" Germany is Nazi Germany, and I don't blame modern Germans for that.

And Russians aren't always the bad guys either. There are several examples of Russians being the good guys, such as Enemy at the Gates, and not all of them take place during WW2 (Anastasia). Call of Duty 1 and 2 had them as a campaign, which is my favorite set of campaigns (One gets you promoted, the other has an awesome scene where Panzers roll over the trench you're in, and only gets better from there), and in CoD4 I'm pretty sure the bad guys were a terrorist ("Ultranationalist") cell (of Russians, fair enough), in Russia. The Russian government doesn't condone the actions of the ultranationalists.
 

Towels

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I love Civilization, this being one reason. Playing as historical figures that are typically portrayed as antagonists gives me a since of "seeing the other side of the coin." You can play as Mao, you can play as Stalin. I hope Fraxis goes for gold and lets me play as Hitler in Civ5.

Plus I enjoyed playing as Saladin, peacefully spreading Judaism for economic gain as expansionist Hindu Romans invaded my peace-loving country and my Christian Chinese neighbors ignored my plight. It paradises religious crusades in general.
 

Autofaux

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The 1950s turned sour for everyone, not only did the Cold War happen but it was a massive spike in Islamist appraisal. Imam Khomeini didn't make things any easier, nor did the several other vocal supporters of this political style, or the fact that Muhammad was a real pirate back in the day.

Maybe the boogieman appeal of Muslims will die down, maybe it won't. I know the U.S. Government is trying to reverse it with that new President of yours. Or maybe *just* the President is trying to reverse it. He is but one cog in the machine.
 

Abedeus

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Wait, what about Assassin's Creed? Weren't like 95% of the people there Muslim?

"Altaiir, my friend! Welcome!"
 

mythgraven

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Mar 9, 2010
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"American media has been unfriendly to Muslims for years, and unfortunately, videogames are rarely an exception."


...Has Muslim media been friendly to Americans, this whole time, and I missed it?


Whiskey Echo!
mythgraven
 

Ryan Hodros

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Feb 13, 2010
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Aren't we forgetting the most common of all the common villain stereotypes? The rich white man. Not only does the rich white man show up as the villain in movies, he's also the most common villain tv shows, comics, video games, and Archie cartoon strips. More often than not, the extend of the rich white man's characterization is that he's rich and white.

And as much as everyone would like to blame racism or classism on these kinds of trends in entertainment, let us not turn a blind eye to the real villain: lazy writers. Muslims turn up as villains in a lot of today's video games because America is currently at war with two Muslim nations. Therefore, muslim characters don't need to be developed as characters because American children can already associate them (in their simple child way) with villainy. Not because they're Muslim, but because we're at war with them. They could easily be replaced with any other stock character we've been at war with at any time. Hell, half the time they could be replaced with a black sillouette character with the word "villain" written across his chest. Through lazy writing, various races and classes have replaced the old western "guy with a black hat" as the easily identifiable villain.

The same can also be said of WWII era germans, japanese, russians, and rich white men. The same can also be said of Mongols, the English, Americans (outside of America, most of the time), corporations, and so on down the line. Half these writers stop only a step or two short of having a narrator tell us "he's the villain because he's ."

It's not necessarily racism (though it definitely feeds racism at times). It's just lazy writers doing a crappy job, and nobody has the sense to call them out on it. If you really want to change this, tell everyone on forums like these to stop buying poorly written games.

Rent first, buy later.
 

znix

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Islam isn't very accepting of other religions or people without religion. Basically anyone who is not a Muslim must be persecuted or worse.

Perhaps not all Muslims follow this religious decree, but many do and many are indoctrinated with it from birth.

Thus, it's not hard casting Muslims as villains when their own religion encourages death to anyone outside of it. It fits rather well actually.
 

Danzaivar

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In a movie, chances are the English guy will be the big bad. Muslims still have another 200 years or so (And counting) before they get off the hook.

Or I'm calling blatant favouritism.
 

Azrael the Cat

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Meh, as far as I'm concerned, USA in games (and most movies) = villains. Occasionally in books you'll get the more thoughtful types who will seriously consider what they're doing to the world (e.g. Don Delillo), but for the most part I just can wait to hop into T's in Counterstrike or do some yankee-killing in pretty much any other multiplayer shooter.

But then again, I also not that under the US's OWN rules of engagement, the twin towers were a legitimate strike. The US;
(a) declared that pre-emptive strikes were legitimate even without an immediate and proveable risk (and given the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia, Al Quaida had a pretty immediate and provable risk of danger, unlike the US).
(b) in it's shock and awe campaign devised rules of engagement wherein if one government building was part of a block of buildings that would be taken out by a missile, then the whole lot became a legitimate target with collateral damage.

The Twin Towers contained government officers, CIA and FBI records - easily enough to make it a legitimate target under the US's OWN rules of warefare.

Now these are not rules that I agree with. I yearn for the days (short as they may have been) when wars were formally declared, no civillian casualities could be shrugged off as collateral and people united across borders by their common economic and familial interests (who do you think has more in common - a US tire maker whose just been downsized in Detroit and some guy trying to start a cafe out of the rubble of Irawm or that same US tire maket and the head of General Motors - I'm pretty sure which one would have the easier time sitting down for dinner with each others; family.

But you can't have it both ways. You can declare the Twin Towers a tragedy, but by that same reasoning the US have been the villains ever since.
 

Denamic

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It's pretty hard not to paint all Muslims with the same brush when there's Muslims who attacks people and even police, vandalizes property, and even kill people, just because they spoke up against Islam. Or even just because someone dressed 'immodestly'.
I realize that all Muslims are not like that, but when a religion can promote people to act like that, something needs to be done.
There's a limit to tolerance.

Besides, according to Islam, all non-Muslims are to be beheaded.
I'm not entirely comfortable accepting that.
 

Saladin Ahmed

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Aug 30, 2010
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Steve5513 said:
It's not Islam being portrayed. It's extremist groups who follow Islam. No video game I have ever heard of, says all Muslims are bad and all are the same. In the new MoH, the bad guy is not islam. It's the Taliban.

Then again, we all know how Muslims get offended at the slightest remark even when it wasn't intended and must be exempt from any criticism.
So if all Muslims in video games aren't bad, if they're not all the same, surely you must have lots of positive counter-examples to weigh against the dozen or so games w/ evil terrorists?
 

Saladin Ahmed

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Ghostkai said:
I get what you're saying Mr. OP, but in certain examples, like say ,PoP or Aladdin, isn't EVERYONE Muslim?

However, you make a fair point, though as some people have said, Russians (who are more often than not depicted as being behind an Islamic insurrection) and Germans also get it pretty rough.
As I said in the OP, in the very first PoP game, the hero's actually supposed to be from a foreign (to Persia) land. If one had a color monitor he had blond hair. Later PoP games are different. And again in Aladdin, yes everyone's muslim/arab, but it's interesting that Jafar is brown with a big nose and (int he movie) an accent, whereas Aladdin looks more like a tan white guy and (in the movie) sounds like an American...

Still, as I say in the OP, these sorts of 'exotic Arabia' games are indeed less troubling than some of the more 'modern war' games.
 

Saladin Ahmed

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Sillyiggy said:
Persecution complexes are fun.
Yeah it's awesome to make this stuff up! In fact *I* actually stabbed a Muslim cabbie in New York (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/muslim-question-leads-cabbie-stabbing-hate-crime-charge/story?id=11480081), and set off a pipe bomb at a Florida mosque (http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/fbi-finds-pipe-bomb-used-in-blast-at-fla-mosque/19475001) JUST SO YOU WOULD TAKE MY BEEF WITH METAL SLUG 2 SERIOUSLY!
 

Fensfield

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A really nice read, thank you.

On another note, anyone played Anno 1404? That had an interesting spin on the subject. Specifically, the Eastern faction (who weren't independently playable, sadly, but rather had European characters currying their favour in return for technology) were portrayed in a pretty positive light indeed (enlightened pacifists being harried by a bunch of Western nutjobs). Inaccurate to a degree in and of itself, but there was one point in the campaign really struck me.

A side quest, wherein the Islamic population of one of the Eastern peoples' colonies is rendered refugee, has the player providing them with relief. At one point, this involves clothes, and portrays something of a mad scramble to get as many jerkins sent out as possible. Now, for the west, this meant pig-hide.

The result? No cliché up in arms ranting about filth or the like, just the eastern faction's head receives the shipment and.. delivers a very awkward thank you. He's not ungrateful, or rude or angry, just .. doesn't quite seem sure how best to deal with the issue that just got dumped in his lap by someone who was trying to help, but didn't know any better.

Of course, I'm pretty sure there were some specifics that 1404 messed up, but that was a really interesting little touch, to me.