Muslim Should Not Equal Villain

[TraderJimmy]

This article will convince no-one. I'd like people to change a lot of attitudes, in fact everyone would like their views to be held by the majority (that is unless they're trying to be individuals) what makes you assume your attitude is right?

So he should just be silent about it and accept that arabs/muslims are good target practice in video games? That arabs/muslims and generally "brown-people" culture should be vilify for the enjoyment of some developed countries entertainment? Video Games are not exactly an obscure medium of entertainment anymore.

A few years down the line, and we will probably see a lot of games covering the conflicts in both Afghanistan and Iraq (guess who the bad guys are going to be). That's something that will happen no matter how many people are offended by it. If 1 million of Muslims died in the two conflicts combined, video gamers should be able to break that high score easily with video games.

Also, he has a cool name.

You're presenting a binary argument where there isn't one. This is doing no-one any favours.

The best way, in my mind, for Muslims to overcome the stigmas society has attached is by better attaching themselves to society. I'm not saying it's their fault, it's specific people within Islam, but it's their job to win people over. No-one gets given anything.

So he can write some smug article about how racist and bigoted westerners are, or he can realise that everyone's as racist as each other and that these arguments simply gain momentum here because a majority of us are better educated and thus 'they' need to change their method.

How many red-necks/racists/Muslim bashers do you think will be convinced by this? How many level headed, educated people do you think see things this black and white?

You can cherry pick an argument if you want, but all I see here is a writer putting his own publicity ahead of what will do the people he's 'supporting' the better deal, in my opinion.
Just because he's Muslim doesn't give him a more valid opinion than other other writer, nor will it shield him from criticism.

Your search for a righteous argument seems to have led you to condemning things that haven't even happened yet.

We've got enough on our plates to solve now before we worry about censoring future media.

Plus... I prefer my Salad Out. (I couldn't resist )

I didn't see any smugness there. Just a sense he felt left out of some games, because he wasn't represented. More well-done ethnic diversity in games = good is the argument, and it is a binary argument. I didn't see anything about censorship.

This isn't some declaration of a future constitution of America, it's an article on a games website saying "Wouldn't it be cool to have a relatable Islamic character in a game? Here are some games that've missed this opportunity. Here are some games that have SEIZED this opportunity, including Triple-A titles. I think the latter are improved games by including such a character."

That's what I got from it.

My reference to censorship was at the other chap.

While I agree that games that have done ethnic diversity well should be praised I don't agree with his examples. Aladdins an old movie, True Lies isn't racist... just overall I disagree with him.

I can look at any popular movie and turn it into something about Arabs. Avatar - the blue people are Arabs and unobtainium is oil, Hurt Locker -, Scott Pilgrim vs World - the indian guy is the weakest and there are no arabs. Honestly, Arabs have not been, in the media of movies and games, marginalised to that extent. It's the news that have.

What's more, there's a War going on at the moment in the Middle East. Of course they;re trying to demonise them.

While I can see what you're saying about this being small time, I think that small things can have big differences and that every action should be a step forward.

Sorry if I've missed anything or strawmanned. Notify me if you care to and I'll sort it out later. Very tired.

Fair enough. I've not seen True Lies - but I can think of a rather nasty real example of what I can only imagine is not intentional, some subconscious slip from the casting agency.

Avatar: The Last Airbender switches the hero and villain's races so that the heroes are white and the villain is asian. Now, that's unfortunate at best.

I do agree that these kinds of articles are often either preaching to the choir or falling on deaf ears - sorry for the cliché-storm. People's views on race, and especially on whether they themselves are racist/how alright that is are incredibly entrenched, as we can see from the fallout in the comment thread. Perhaps more so than on any other issue, unfortunately - so there's not much you can do other than stick with someone and really fight the cause of their racism, whichever direction it flows in.

Sorry for reading that wrong - I couldn't see how anyone would see this as a call for censorship, and obviously no-one did.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

I think as one of the very first posts pointed out, in answer to 1) and 2), there is a line you can stand in behind the germans, japanese, russian, chinese, south american, and so forth. All of them have been demonized and stereotyped to death in one game or another.

Here's why that's not a good justification: we have a pretty basic understanding of modern-day Germans, Japanese, Russians. We've been exposed to small portions of their culture, and we have an overall pretty clear picture of what they're really like. The fact that we're given objective and positive exposure to these people allows us to distinguish the difference between the way they're depicted, and the way they would be if we had to interact with them in real life, and also allows us to enjoy the mannerisms that are exaggerated in the name of irony.

With Muslims, however, the exposure we do get is predominantly negative, and the following cycle demonstrates why it's so damaging.

1. The media produces sensationalist stories for the purpose of scaring people into paying attention and giving them better ratings, and get away with it because the culture they're exploiting is largely alien to the western world.
-----
2. These cherry-picked, exaggerated tales that pass for "facts" are embraced and perpetuated by people who want to use that fear for their own gain, such as politicians that promise protection from such scary people, and religious figureheads that don't want competition from another major religion.
-----
3. A lot of people in the entertainment industry take note of how the majority of their target demographic is buying into the anti-Muslim craze, and realize they've found a group of existing people that can be portrayed as undeniably evil and okay to kill en-masse, while they can still claim that their product is realistic.
-----
4. People buy the product, and have their negative views reinforced.
-----
5. With no positive exposure to balance out the negative representations, stereotypes about Muslims become regarded as semi-factual.

I'm gonna wax analogous, here, so try to bear with me, because sometimes I get a little lost in them. Okay, imagine that the actual xenomorphs from the Aliens series are actually a largely pacifistic race, and the murderous ones you saw in the movies and games were from a splinter faction of ultra-hostile xenophobes? You'd have never guessed that in a million years, because every time you see them in games, movies, and everywhere else they show up, they're either killing people, or getting ready to kill people. Or they're abducting someone to impregnate them with a flesh-eating fetus via face-rape. When a new Alien game comes out, there's not a single person that needs to be told "if it has a black, shiny, chitinous shell, shoot the fuck out of it", because they already know through pop-culture that they're bad news.

Now, imagine you met one in real life.

"Hey there, stranger! Sorry to be a bother, but my wife and I just moved into the apartment down the hall, and we were hoping to celebrate FINALLY getting everything unpacked. Know of any good restaurants I could treat her to? And while I've got you, how's the nightlife?"​

What is your first thought? Is it:

Spoiler: A) I've heard nothing but bad things about it, but I need to give it a chance before I pass any judgment.

LIAR. All you heard was

[HEADING=1]HSSSSSSSSSSSLAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGGGGGGGGGG!!![/HEADING]
​

Or

Spoiler: B) I'm calling the fucking police.

Nice going, you just called the cops on this guy.​

...I know it's B, don't lie to me.

Conversely, if they made a game about E.T. being a murderous psychopath, you'd laugh it off as a crude parody, because you know that all E.T. wants to do is phone home and eat Reese's Pieces, thanks to all the positive exposure he's gotten. If you met him in real life...

"Some asshole cut me off in traffic today. I swear, I was angry enough to kill someone. Ugh."​

Quiz time! First thought:

Spoiler: A) That is totally okay, E.T.! Be right back, I'm gonna go cut my finger on purpose so you can do that glowy thing and make it all better, you pile of hugs!

Wow. Aren't you presumptuous. He might've really been ready to kill someone.

Or

Spoiler: B)

There is no B.

It's an imperfect analogy, but I hope I made my point.

 

[DayDark]

It's a good article, or should I say, cultural commentary, but I still feel that Muslims do too little to speak out against the extremists, it's hard to see the difference between the internal jihad and external jihad, when both descriptions are used by muslims, who's the most muslim and thus the more "true"?

 

[Gyrefalcon]

I had not considered the nostalgia aspect of the depiction of Muslims or Arabic peoples in gaming/movies/books. But there is always some associated with any of the places that managed to build one of the Seven Wonders of the World. The Hanging Gardens of Babylon and the Pyramids and Sphinx of Egypt tends to make us wish we could have seen them. Thus games set in ancient times or even fairy tales like the Arabian Nights never seem to get old to me.

Add in the bright colors of Prince of Persia amid a sea of concrete grey and dust brown games and it becomes a beacon of light. Most games in the late 1990's to early 2000's seemed to link color with "kids" and monocrome with "serious adult". When everyone does it, it gets old.

But I digress. The most glorious period I really know about Iran and Iraq was back when Persia still existed. The center of mathematics and learning, home to brilliant astronomers and astrologers, creators of some of the most beautiful architecture in the world, that was Persia. This is compared to modern day where the only thing ever shown in the news was constant fighting between factions, the looting of great museums, and the reduction to rubble those once-glorious structures.

It may not be all there is, but it is all that is commonly depicted. So urban warfare games seem to be the order of the day instead of sliding down washing lines and seeking buried treasure. But to be fair, it seems that movie/games are fixated on WWII which was pretty much the last time the US was clearly on the right side of a conflict even through the eyes of the world. So it's hard to escape any sort of nostalgic "glory days" for the depiction of any country or people.

It is interesting that the more strictly historical games are doing a better job of depiction than most any other genre of games. Perhaps we will see an improvement across the board over time. At the very least there is the power of voting with one's funding. Support the games that are better at it.

And good luck with your new book!

 

[BloodSquirrel]

Sigh...as I and a number of commentators have mentioned there's no problem with having Muslim villains.

Yes, you've repeated this over and over and over and then gone right back to the same old arguments. Bolded for convenience:

"I don't have a problem with muslims as villains" are easy words to type, but when you call games that do so "offensive" you clearly don't mean them.

And no, no one expects FPS games to suddenly feature enemies who sing 'kumbaya' and hug the protagonist after they spawn. It's mostly a two-dimensional genre, a fact which you can take or leave. But the best-written FPS games *do* nuance their conflicts in cutscenes, manuals, etc. Halo initially featured an unrelentingly evil alien Covenant but, over the course of the games, players are introduced to the idea that the Covenant themselves are, to a degree, dupes who are being manipulated -- and we see the Elites break from the Covenant eventually.

That is one way to tell a story. It is not the only one. Many shooters, especially ones going for realism, prioritize immediacy over narrative complexity. Your personal political crusade does make that an invalid decision.

 

[maryrobinette]

I wanted to thank you for this article. While I'm theoretically aware of the rage and the bigotry toward Muslims I have to confess to not having a fully conscious realization of how long it's been going on.

To everyone who says, "It's just fiction."
You know...there's a reason that Jesus used parables to teach. People absorb fiction more readily than they do facts. It's fine to tell a story with a Muslim as the villain but it becomes a problem comes when there are no counter examples. For a lot of people, this depiction will be their first and sometimes only experience of what Muslims are like. Without other stories being told, audiences will absorb only the one in which Arabic people are cannon fodder, no more valuable than zombies.

To everyone who is saying "Get in line."

No, really, there doesn't need to be a line. Everything I'm saying or that Saladin said can be equally applied to any stereotype. Correcting them isn't like building a tower. What's being said here is that when someone sits down to design a game that looking at all of the roles for nuance will make them more interesting. And as consumers, if consistently ask for and choose the games that have more nuanced characters and less stereotyping then we'll wind up with more interesting games over the long haul.

Maybe it's just me, but I hate games that are too easy to figure out.

 

[aldowyn]

Impressive article, one of my favorite in a long while. It has an effective, accurate timeline of Arabs in video games, and offers some new original thoughts on the topic.

I've seen that notice at the beginning of Assassin's Creed, and I've always thought it was cool. Not so much that the team was, any decent size group would be, but that they mentioned it. In the game, the bad guys were not exclusively Muslim or Christian, but a mix of both, appropriate considering the atrocities committed by both sides.

It bears mentioning, though, that the ultimate villain was decidedly Arab, while the hero, Altair, seems rather Caucasian, at least in comparison.

May the future continue the trend and popularize diversity of all kinds in the years to come!

 

[abaeran]

Fascinating article.

I know when I was playing through Assassin's Creed, the story-line and setting really caught my eye because of its more equal handed approach to depicting both sides. I realized, that while there's absolutely nothing wrong with playing a Caucasian character (though, really, it's kinda absurd in the PoP series...), for once the character matched the setting, the time period. Voice acting is kinda a different story there... while the sub characters had a more middle eastern type accent, Altair had a more straightforward, western one.

 

[Shihoudani]

I think as one of the very first posts pointed out, in answer to 1) and 2), there is a line you can stand in behind the germans, japanese, russian, chinese, south american, and so forth. All of them have been demonized and stereotyped to death in one game or another.

Here's why that's not a good justification: we have a pretty basic understanding of modern-day Germans, Japanese, Russians. We've been exposed to small portions of their culture, and we have an overall pretty clear picture of what they're really like. The fact that we're given objective and positive exposure to these people allows us to distinguish the difference between the way they're depicted, and the way they would be if we had to interact with them in real life, and also allows us to enjoy the mannerisms that are exaggerated in the name of irony.

With Muslims, however, the exposure we do get is predominantly negative, and the following cycle demonstrates why it's so damaging.

1. The media produces sensationalist stories for the purpose of scaring people into paying attention and giving them better ratings, and get away with it because the culture they're exploiting is largely alien to the western world.
-----
2. These cherry-picked, exaggerated tales that pass for "facts" are embraced and perpetuated by people who want to use that fear for their own gain, such as politicians that promise protection from such scary people, and religious figureheads that don't want competition from another major religion.
-----
3. A lot of people in the entertainment industry take note of how the majority of their target demographic is buying into the anti-Muslim craze, and realize they've found a group of existing people that can be portrayed as undeniably evil and okay to kill en-masse, while they can still claim that their product is realistic.
-----
4. People buy the product, and have their negative views reinforced.
-----
5. With no positive exposure to balance out the negative representations, stereotypes about Muslims become regarded as semi-factual.

I'm gonna wax analogous, here, so try to bear with me, because sometimes I get a little lost in them. Okay, imagine that the actual xenomorphs from the Aliens series are actually a largely pacifistic race, and the murderous ones you saw in the movies and games were from a splinter faction of ultra-hostile xenophobes? You'd have never guessed that in a million years, because every time you see them in games, movies, and everywhere else they show up, they're either killing people, or getting ready to kill people. Or they're abducting someone to impregnate them with a flesh-eating fetus via face-rape. When a new Alien game comes out, there's not a single person that needs to be told "if it has a black, shiny, chitinous shell, shoot the fuck out of it", because they already know through pop-culture that they're bad news.

Now, imagine you met one in real life.

"Hey there, stranger! Sorry to be a bother, but my wife and I just moved into the apartment down the hall, and we were hoping to celebrate FINALLY getting everything unpacked. Know of any good restaurants I could treat her to? And while I've got you, how's the nightlife?"​

What is your first thought? Is it:

Spoiler: A) I've heard nothing but bad things about it, but I need to give it a chance before I pass any judgment.

LIAR. All you heard was

[HEADING=1]HSSSSSSSSSSSLAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGGGGGGGGGG!!![/HEADING]
​

Or

Spoiler: B) I'm calling the fucking police.

Nice going, you just called the cops on this guy.​

...I know it's B, don't lie to me.

Conversely, if they made a game about E.T. being a murderous psychopath, you'd laugh it off as a crude parody, because you know that all E.T. wants to do is phone home and eat Reese's Pieces, thanks to all the positive exposure he's gotten. If you met him in real life...

"Some asshole cut me off in traffic today. I swear, I was angry enough to kill someone. Ugh."​

Quiz time! First thought:

Spoiler: A) That is totally okay, E.T.! Be right back, I'm gonna go cut my finger on purpose so you can do that glowy thing and make it all better, you pile of hugs!

Wow. Aren't you presumptuous. He might've really been ready to kill someone.

Or

Spoiler: B)

There is no B.

It's an imperfect analogy, but I hope I made my point.

I agree with a fair amount of your points that compare to the russians, germans etc we have some context behind their culture which levels out peoples feelings toward them. And I'll also give merit that the media can prop up some stories more then others for the sake of boosting ratings, though as I said in my first post that there are some things we don't learn just from the media, rather from the words of people who live in some of those nations such as Saudi Arabia or Iran, even Egypt to a lesser degree.

Things like the oppression of women's rights, how stoning someone is still an acceptable form of punishment in some of these governments. I could keep going but I'm just pointing out that even if I accept that the vast majority of people in these nations are gentle folk who are more then tolerant of others beliefs, the blame can't fall completely on the governing power for how they treat the civil rights of said citizenry. Because without the people either supporting, or willingly ignoring what's happening then it should crumble in upon it's self because who would wish to be treated as such?

It still seems necessary that those who don't believe in an extremist view of Islam or Islamic faith should proclaim their anger for such actions, so that those who do only hear these sensationalist headlines can learn and take notice that they aren't all aliens who want to impregnate you with their young (( Obviously making a joke back at the Aliens reference. )) Perhaps it could be said that they don't have to condemn actions such as to defend their beliefs, and that's well and good. Then why not condemn it on the simple line of oppression and inhumane treatment?

Hell there is an idea for a game with a Muslim Hero right there, a poor soul who fights back against all those inhumane acts, so that he/she and their family could live a better life? Could make it like how Hard Rain was made! Naturally drama and violence etc would get lumped in to attract a wider audience but you see what I'm getting at.

 

[Usagi Vindaloo]

No, actually, I will not benefit at all from someone pushing their personal political agenda into my games. I have never said after playing a game "Man, I would have enjoyed that more if the main character was an albino lesbian." That is a personal crusade of yours.

Who said anything about politics? Where are the politics in having tons and tons and tons of awesome characters from all walks of life? Surely having a wide range of character types, backgrounds and stories only strengthens a narrative and pulls us in deeper to the emotional core of the work? I don't know about you, but I don't want all the heroes (or villains) to be the same... I want each and every one to be unique.

"Comments like "EVERYONE benefits from having more diversity" are incredibly myopic, especially since it runs contrary to the idea of diversity in values between different people."

But it DOES contribute to the idea that we are all human beings, united together, with far far more that unites us than divides us. That is why it benefits each and every one of us. You can't deny that being brought together and forging closer bonds between people and cultures is nothing but a good thing and something we (should) all work towards.

"Oh, so it's only ok for non-white gamers to want a main character like them."

White gamers already have people like them. We have plenty of role models and people who look like us. I for one am ready for something a bit different, and what better way to do that than by having heroes of different backgrounds? Not to mention if it makes others feel more welcome and included, that can never be a bad thing.

Basically, it is an absolutely no lose situation to include more diversity in our heroes. Non-white/straight/male people have someone like them to identify, perhaps even to have as a personal role model. White/straight/males who want something different than Mr Blandy McWhiterson get to see the world through entirely different eyes. And for everyone else who just doesn't care about race in games or doesn't think it's a big issue... you'll enjoy the game just as much no matter who's pulling the trigger as long as the gameplay is fun, so there's absolutely no downside. ^_^

 

[Usagi Vindaloo]

No, I read that as saying that he has a problem with them being portrayed as ONLY villains and nothing else. Not only that, but that the portrayal reduces them to moving targets to be shot, as opposed to fully realized, living and breathing characters.

Ok, see, this "as opposed to fully realized, living and breathing characters" nonsense is the problem. They are opponents on a battlefield. At what point are they going to be characterized? Are they going to start chatting you up after they spawn and before they start shooting you? How many other shooters show you the life story of mook #341 before he starts shooting at you? I asked the author these questions, and he couldn't answer.

If you want the game to go that far out of its way to make up for the fact that the villains are muslims, then you clearly do have a problem with them being portrayed as villains. "I don't have a problem with muslims as villains" are easy words to type, but when you call games that do so "offensive" you clearly don't mean them.

I have a problem with ANY person being portrayed as a mook. That's actually one of my biggest issues with video games and their narratives in general; that the enemies feel like cannon fodder and stuff to shoot rather than realized characters in their own right. In this, I will agree, Muslims are not the only group to suffer this, as all video games screw this up royally with all types of characters, ethnicities, aliens, etc. It's just that Islam has this extra level of unfortunate implications which make it particularly squicky. But frankly, I wish games would stop with the "mook" thing and focus more on ensuring that every character has a life of their own. Otherwise it just comes over as bad writing. >< It's part of the reason I cringe at trash but love bosses in World of Warcraft; the trash ends up seeming like faceless extras with no personality, whereas the bosses at least have some effort to differentiate them, give them quirks, etc.

 

[Gralian]

Interesting read. It's nice to hear a viewpoint from a minority on such a specific issue once in a while, for sure. Muslims are a hot topic the world over. I'm not American, so i can't really say much about the 'Mosque on ground zero' thing or the 'Christian Right' because i'm too ill-informed about such topics.

Coming from a very conservative upbringing, i was always ingrained with a feeling of xenophobia. My parents always demonised ethnic minorities of any sort, from Asians and blacks, to Russians and people from the Middle-East, with Caucasians being predominantly the only 'sane' ones. This backed up with the news stories you get ("More black youth shootings in Peckham!" or "Abdul-Alharr found plotting to blow up the subway!) certainly did not help to build a liberal view and acceptance of foreign culture.

As a result of this, i find it hard to judge the individual rather than the community, or in this case, to overcome the perception of the community. I'm constantly told "Islam is yet to come out of its 'middle-ages' stage like Christianity was before it became 'civilised' " with the argument that women are, for example, still treated as slaves and objects, and that while it may be okay for a Mosque to be built in a western country like Britain or America, building a Church in the middle of Iran would most likely not be tolerated, period.

However i have met one or two of the Muslim faith on a personal level and had no trouble overcoming such judgements because they seemed to embrace my culture as well as their own. They, for example, may drink tea just like me and be open to western ideals but still choose to practice the Islam faith at home and keep their Islamic traditions. It is this that i think we need to depict in games more often.

We need to deconstruct the idea that being exclusively Arab / Islamic is some sort of 'club' that is exclusive to members of that community only. I identified with Altair as a character because he didn't make it blindingly obvious or in-your-face that he was Arabic. I knew he was, but i was happy with it. If they'd given him an over the top accent and garnished him with a ridiculous amount of religious articles and got him to spew hatred for the white crusaders, that's when i'd say "This is stupid and arbitrary".

You can't do anything about the generic mook. They're cannon fodder and not every game is trying to make a political stance. But what we can do is create a broader spectrum of protagonists and key characters for the player to identify with. If we have a more diverse range of heroes who go beyond the typical power-armour wearing one-liner spewing white caucasian male, we'll see a better depiction not just of Arab Muslims, but of blacks, Asians as a whole and women.

After all, you're complaining about the depiction of Arabs, but the homosexual community has had little to no representation in video gaming and any attempts towards it has been met with incredibly one dimensional satire and caricatures. Remember Makoto from Enchanted Arms? I bet that did wonders for the gay community.

The point is that it's not just Arabs who get an 'unfair or unequal depiction'. Hell, women are still treated as sex objects in games, too. I'd argue that by looking into games like Full Spectrum Warrior or Splinter Cell as being politically charged because they depict a certain race as the enemy is like when people read a book and find all sorts of ridiculous "hidden meanings" when that was never the author's intention. See South Park's "Scrootie McBoogerballs" episode.

Lastly, with the advent of the internet, global communications has enabled people to reach out to cultures otherwise unbeknownst to them; Westerners take a keep interest in Japanese culture, whereas my 50-something year old father would still see them all as incredibly weird and alien as he would have had no exposure whatsoever to such a culture. But as members of all ethnic groups, beliefs and genders begin to coagulate in the cultural melting point of the internet, we'll get to the stage where we won't have to turn to the news for sensationalist stories that portray one particular group as being 'evil', because we will have already made our judgements on that group based on the people and literature we've come across over the internet the world wide.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

A very interesting read. It made me wanna buy Assassin's Creed.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

Who said anything about politics? Where are the politics in having tons and tons and tons of awesome characters from all walks of life? Surely having a wide range of character types, backgrounds and stories only strengthens a narrative and pulls us in deeper to the emotional core of the work? I don't know about you, but I don't want all the heroes (or villains) to be the same... I want each and every one to be unique.

Just because it's something you approve of doesn't mean that it's not politics. This is geopolitical race and religious issues being shoved in gaming's face. That's politics.

But it DOES contribute to the idea that we are all human beings, united together, with far far more that unites us than divides us. That is why it benefits each and every one of us. You can't deny that being brought together and forging closer bonds between people and cultures is nothing but a good thing and something we (should) all work towards.

"Being brought together" is quite often the source of violent conflict, especially when it is done by one group of people while dictating terms. People trying to "unite" each other while being utterly myopic and dismissive of values they don't personally approve of wind up being incredibly divisive.

White gamers already have people like them. We have plenty of role models and people who look like us.

But you're not talking about them playing those games. Is playing a game with a main character who looks like you more fun or not? Let's not have any double standards here.

Basically, it is an absolutely no lose situation to include more diversity in our heroes.

On the contrary, chasing that unicorn is almost always lose-lose. It's never enough for one group of people and it's annoying to the rest.

Put a muslim as the main character in your game? Ok, now any faults he has will be blown out of proportion to show how you're just enforcing stereotypes. Make him too bland for that? Ok, now he's not enough of a real muslim. He's just a token minority. And everyone else is bored of him.

Wise developers stay away from the whole mess and just make what they think will sell.

I have a problem with ANY person being portrayed as a mook. That's actually one of my biggest issues with video games and their narratives in general; that the enemies feel like cannon fodder and stuff to shoot rather than realized characters in their own right. In this, I will agree, Muslims are not the only group to suffer this, as all video games screw this up royally with all types of characters, ethnicities, aliens, etc. It's just that Islam has this extra level of unfortunate implications which make it particularly squicky. But frankly, I wish games would stop with the "mook" thing and focus more on ensuring that every character has a life of their own. Otherwise it just comes over as bad writing. >< It's part of the reason I cringe at trash but love bosses in World of Warcraft; the trash ends up seeming like faceless extras with no personality, whereas the bosses at least have some effort to differentiate them, give them quirks, etc.

This would require them to simply stop making most genres of games. Please try to be at least a little realistic here.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

Wooow. Well this talkback has gone places.

IT'S A DAMN GAME. You could play the Nazis and the Confederates in old, old tactical games way back in the late eighties and early nineties. (Not, you understand, that I'm equating the two.) What the hell's the difference between then and now? That the character has a "face"? Utter nonsense.

A bugbear I have about the few war games I've actually played recently is that the American "heroes" (and they're ALWAYS American) are frequently less likeable than the cartoonish foreigners serving as the villains. Y'know, if you had a more balanced outlook, it might be good for the game AND the player. Of course this is probably not going to happen as long as the biggest markets for this kind of game are either American or Anglophile.

So I guess my point is that it all comes down to perceived demand - and the perception is based on what sells the best. Unfortunately big dumb Americocentric blasters seem to be the "what" in this case.

 

[L-J-F]

Personally, I find extremists in general to be the 'bad guys'. And the extremists who get the most press currently tend to be of the Muslim extraction. I find stories of the latest 'pronouncements' of some ultra-right wing Christian - I'm thinking of that eejit who not too long ago said that the disaster in Haiti was because they'd made a deal with the devil a hundred years ago to get rid of the French - just as worrisome as I find some of the coverage of Muslim extremism. But if you're developing a game that's not based on any historical fact or event, and you need a bad guy, you're probably gonna pick a group that a majority of your target audience distrusts.

"Hey... we need a bad guy for this new shooter we've creating. Any ideas?"

"Grandmas!"

"Boy Scouts!"

"People who read to the blind!"

"Criminals!"

"Lawyers!"

"France!!"

"Muslims!"

And currently, the easiest sell for the game devs is probably the Muslims. It's the world we live in right now. But the reality - or the reality we're shown through the lenses of the tv news cameras - we're seeing is acts of terrorism being done by Muslims. Not to mention the odd story here and there of how Sharia law rules on a case involving a woman. And as long as they are the current bad guys on the nightly news; they're gonna be the current bad guys in video games as well. North Korea was making a play for the big bad guy role, but as expected, they kind of sputtered and whimpered off the world stage - for now at least.

Well said.

 

[Soylent Dave]

It's fun to see people equating the use of Russians and Germans in games with the use of Arabs.

Because the two don't equate - Germans aren't used as en masse 'bad guys' in videogames; Nazis are. Similarly for Russians - the cartoon bad guys used in games are Soviet Union soldiers - often Spetznaz and KGB (i.e. explicitly Communist forces).

That doesn't excuse making these organisations into a caricature, 2-dimensional bad guy - it's still naff writing - but it's not the same thing as turning an entire culture (one which still exists!) into the 'bad guy'.

And the idea that coalition forces are currently fighting 'Muslims' in Afghanistan is childishly simplistic. We're fighting terrorists, or insurgents (or freedom fighters, depending on your perspective). Many of which are Muslim.

But they're not united under the banner of Islam - they're united under an entirely different banner (the Taliban are the ousted government of Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda are an anti-west terrorist group. The fact that both have extremist religious views explains some of their motivations, but it doesn't describe their organisations).

That would be like saying the British Army were fighting 'Catholics' in Northern Ireland...

 

[maryrobinette]

SODAssault may I totally steal this analogy and use it elsewhere? Not perfect but clearer than any that I've seen in awhile. For those who missed it...

I think as one of the very first posts pointed out, in answer to 1) and 2), there is a line you can stand in behind the germans, japanese, russian, chinese, south american, and so forth. All of them have been demonized and stereotyped to death in one game or another.

Here's why that's not a good justification: we have a pretty basic understanding of modern-day Germans, Japanese, Russians. We've been exposed to small portions of their culture, and we have an overall pretty clear picture of what they're really like. The fact that we're given objective and positive exposure to these people allows us to distinguish the difference between the way they're depicted, and the way they would be if we had to interact with them in real life, and also allows us to enjoy the mannerisms that are exaggerated in the name of irony.

With Muslims, however, the exposure we do get is predominantly negative, and the following cycle demonstrates why it's so damaging.

1. The media produces sensationalist stories for the purpose of scaring people into paying attention and giving them better ratings, and get away with it because the culture they're exploiting is largely alien to the western world.
-----
2. These cherry-picked, exaggerated tales that pass for "facts" are embraced and perpetuated by people who want to use that fear for their own gain, such as politicians that promise protection from such scary people, and religious figureheads that don't want competition from another major religion.
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3. A lot of people in the entertainment industry take note of how the majority of their target demographic is buying into the anti-Muslim craze, and realize they've found a group of existing people that can be portrayed as undeniably evil and okay to kill en-masse, while they can still claim that their product is realistic.
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4. People buy the product, and have their negative views reinforced.
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5. With no positive exposure to balance out the negative representations, stereotypes about Muslims become regarded as semi-factual.

I'm gonna wax analogous, here, so try to bear with me, because sometimes I get a little lost in them. Okay, imagine that the actual xenomorphs from the Aliens series are actually a largely pacifistic race, and the murderous ones you saw in the movies and games were from a splinter faction of ultra-hostile xenophobes? You'd have never guessed that in a million years, because every time you see them in games, movies, and everywhere else they show up, they're either killing people, or getting ready to kill people. Or they're abducting someone to impregnate them with a flesh-eating fetus via face-rape. When a new Alien game comes out, there's not a single person that needs to be told "if it has a black, shiny, chitinous shell, shoot the fuck out of it", because they already know through pop-culture that they're bad news.

Now, imagine you met one in real life.

"Hey there, stranger! Sorry to be a bother, but my wife and I just moved into the apartment down the hall, and we were hoping to celebrate FINALLY getting everything unpacked. Know of any good restaurants I could treat her to? And while I've got you, how's the nightlife?"​

What is your first thought? Is it:

Spoiler: A) I've heard nothing but bad things about it, but I need to give it a chance before I pass any judgment.

LIAR. All you heard was

[HEADING=1]HSSSSSSSSSSSLAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGGGGGGGGGG!!![/HEADING]
​

Or

Spoiler: B) I'm calling the fucking police.

Nice going, you just called the cops on this guy.​

...I know it's B, don't lie to me.

Conversely, if they made a game about E.T. being a murderous psychopath, you'd laugh it off as a crude parody, because you know that all E.T. wants to do is phone home and eat Reese's Pieces, thanks to all the positive exposure he's gotten. If you met him in real life...

"Some asshole cut me off in traffic today. I swear, I was angry enough to kill someone. Ugh."​

Quiz time! First thought:

Spoiler: A) That is totally okay, E.T.! Be right back, I'm gonna go cut my finger on purpose so you can do that glowy thing and make it all better, you pile of hugs!

Wow. Aren't you presumptuous. He might've really been ready to kill someone.

Or

Spoiler: B)

There is no B.

It's an imperfect analogy, but I hope I made my point.

 

[Zyxzy]

Saladin is often vilified? He was held up as an exemplar of chivalry in medieval Europe.