National Guard called into Minneapolis

[Buyetyen]

I... no? A statement can be logical in one context but not in others. 2+2=0 in algebra modulo 4, but not in normal algebra. Context is absurdly important.
Also purely logical system must be incompressible, contradictory, or incomplete. Pure logic has massive inherent limits.

Logic devoid of context and humanity is also just, well... inhuman. Shit, that was the whole point of the Mentats in Dune. They had polished their cognition and logic to superhuman levels and yet every Mentat character in the book is wrong. They never stop to examine their premises or their epistemology, believing both to be logically sound. Hawat fails to consider the possibility that Suk school conditioning can be overridden and thus fails to stop the fall of House Atreides and finds it easier to blame Jessica when Baron Harkonnen presents him with the target. Piter DeVries dramatically underestimates the population of the Fremen based on analysis of the planet's ecology. On the surface, his logic appears irrefutable except he never considers the possibility of, "Hey bro! The locals! Are! Fucking with you! The locals always fuck with the tourists!" I mean, as long as we're talking about hypotheticals, how about one that's well-written?

 

[Houseman]

You basically have to randomly come up with the solution instead of looking at what works, and what has historically worked, and then improving/extrapolating on that until you get a working solution.

I use reductico to evaluate and test the logical validity of proposed solutions.

And everyone agrees, cleans up some stuff that's visibly wrong and easy to clean, but doesn't touch the nasty leak that's dripping toilet water onto your mattress, or any of the other major problems?

But that's not what "properly maintained means".

And if most of the people are like "Eh, no, the rules are fine as is, we don't need to change them" because they're not directly suffering from any problems, or otherwise delay or dismiss the concerns until the entire house is falling apart, or at the very least your room is now permanently smelling like poop and has ruined your entire quality of life or given you some kind of nasty infection?

Then kick them out for not obeying the rules. You're the one paying the mortgage. It's not a vote.

The equivalent would be to have some sort of anti-discrimination government body proactively check for and punish discrimination.

At some point, there's a time limit where we have to actually, you know, ship something. Before the money runs out and we can't make ANYTHING.

In the non-hypothetical case, human lives are at stake, and your decisions could either prevent or lead to the loss of life. This sort of thing needs to be considered with urgency, yes, but also the utmost caution. Emotion-based thinking is surely not the way to go.

I... no? A statement can be logical in one context but not in others.

Then that means it isn't logically valid, or you were too vague with your premises, such as not specifying "in base 10"

 

[Silvanus]

Correct, my view of what counts as discrimination is based in law.
I never said "unless charities address things outside of their purview or remit, it's discrimination!" which is what you seemed to have just said.

Can it be said to be "based in law" if it in no way represents the intent, wording, or practice of that law? It's "based in" it in a pretty tenuous way.

Okay, so what is it that BLM is actually trying to solve, if not police brutality?

Their mission statement on their website says "...whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes"

Ignoring the bit about "eradicating white supremacy", they want to "intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes"
It's discriminatory because it focuses on black communities. It's discriminatory on the basis of race.

It's trying to solve a racial disparity in treatment. You cannot "ignore the bit about white supremacy"; the addressing of a racial disparity is core to their purpose.

Why should we ignore it?

I wonder, would you have any issues with the 14 words, taken literally and out of context? Do you see anything especially troubling about "securing... a future for white children"? Or would you say something like "No, secure a future for ALL children"?

If I was entirely ignorant of world history and context, I would ask the obvious question: why the specific focus.

With context, thankfully, we have an answer to that question: a focus is necessary because a clear disparity exists. Just as if 1 neighbourhood is receiving 100 dollars in grant money, and a 2nd neighbourhood is receiving 200 dollars, it's more to-the-point to say, "invest more in neighbourhood 1" rather than "all neighbourhoods deserve money!"

The first addresses the discrepancy. The second ignores it: allows people to carry on pretending that the two neighbourhoods are on equal footing.

I use reductico to evaluate and test the logical validity of proposed solutions.

Why must a solution intended for our world, context and all, also work in an absurd hypothetical or a vacuum?

Then that means it isn't logically valid, or you were too vague with your premises, such as not specifying "in base 10"

Strictly, of course, that it's "in base 10" is context. Absolutely every specification you could add is context; just a less complex level of context.

 

[Aegix Drakan]

But that's not what "properly maintained means".

And if the majority disagrees, because it doesn't affect them, and they don't want to put in extra work?

Then kick them out for not obeying the rules. You're the one paying the mortgage. It's not a vote.

You assume you're the one paying the mortgage, and have that power. If you don't have the power on your own, or it IS in fact, a vote because you're all paying the mortgage together, you're out of luck.

The equivalent would be to have some sort of anti-discrimination government body proactively check for and punish discrimination.

RIGHT! Good idea.

But wait, what kind of discrimination do they tackle first? I mean, they have to pick and choose their cases, right? The ones who don't get picked, are they being discriminated against? How do they decide what cases or bigotry to tackle first with the limited resources that they have? Who leads it? Is it being staffed by people who are bigots themselves and people don't know yet? Who vets them so that doesn't happen, etc etc, nuance nuance, real world is messy, are we going to get this task force sometime this century with all the obstruction going on?

Also, when the state actually DOES get off it's ass and punished discrimination? Shit can get ugly.

There was a famous case in Mississippi a long while back, where the FBI went in to investigate the disappearances of a bunch of activists. The local authorities fought them tooth and nail all the way, and even after FINALLY, FINALLY managing to bust a bunch of people for civil rights violations, there's STILL tons of ingrained bigotry in Mississippi.

In the non-hypothetical case, human lives are at stake, and your decisions could either prevent or lead to the loss of life. This sort of thing needs to be considered with urgency, yes, but also the utmost caution. Emotion-based thinking is surely not the way to go.

True enough....But...Well, there are people deliberately gumming up the works everywhere you look when it comes to social issues because they ARE bigoted and want to discriminate, either because they're assholes, or because they were raised to believe that it's normal. And while they fight tooth and nail against every inch of progress made, people keep suffering and dying. You can't blame the people suffering when it's taking decades or longer to stop them from suffering needlessly.

How many people do the cops needs to strangle to death on the ground, or shoot in the back while unarmed, or break into their apartment and shoot in their sleep before the people that this is happening to are allowed to get angry and start demanding this be fixed? How many generations have to suffer bigotry as the gears of power slowly turn with people holding them back, before they're allowed to protest and demand change for their community?

Then that means it isn't logically valid, or you were too vague with your premises, such as not specifying "in base 10"

You know, I'm really beginning to think that you process things differently from most of us. Like...With VERY little emotion for everything.

Which, you know, no shame, we're all different. It's purely an observation.

Most of u, can't go pure robot logic mode and ignore the suffering and pain of people in front of us. Most of us can't suppress our emotions to that level, they're a core part of who we all are and how we view the world. So, when someone is in pain in front of us, most of us go "oh shit, pain -> help! How can I stop the pain right away" instead of going on a pure logic trip to start thinking of a solution despite the person in pain in fron

Hell, I've got Aspergers (often stereotyped as being coldly logical for some weird reason) and my empathy literally hurts me deeply whenever I see a homeless person on the subway or street and I don't give them money immediately.

In fact, off-topic here, this is putting some of my own confusion into light. I'm asexual, see, and so when I see the insane swath of sexual assault that's baked into so many places, I'm like "...I don't get it, how hard can it be to a) NOT get piss drunk an an industry even and grab a girl by the breasts and b) actually punish the guy that did it instead of trying to protect him from consequences? Like...Why the hell does this happen it makes zero sense, there's a time and place for sex stuff, why do people just DO that?!"

The random urges of those kinds of people, nor the understanding and excuses they get are something I'm able to understand, because mine don't work like that at all.

With context, thankfully, we have an answer to that question: a focus is necessary because a clear disparity exists. Just as if 1 neighbourhood is receiving 100 dollars in grant money, and a 2nd neighbourhood is receiving 200 dollars, it's more to-the-point to say, "invest more in neighbourhood 1" rather than "all neighbourhoods deserve money!"

The first addresses the discrepancy. The second ignores it: allows people to carry on pretending that the two neighbourhoods are on equal footing.

Another argument I wish I had thought of, thank you!

-

And with that, that's all I'm doing tonight. I'm no longer in a mental state to keep this up.

 

[Gordon_4]

I... no? A statement can be logical in one context but not in others. 2+2=0 in algebra modulo 4, but not in normal algebra. Context is absurdly important.
Also purely logical system must be incompressible, contradictory, or incomplete. Pure logic has massive inherent limits.

Plus, you know, we aren’t fucking Vulcans.

 

[Revnak]

Then that means it isn't logically valid, or you were too vague with your premises, such as not specifying "in base 10"

Ok, then context is part of the premise and can’t just be ignored.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Protests update.

Protesters surround a car then one pulls and gun and fires at the driver for some reason

 

[Aegix Drakan]

Protests update.

Protesters surround a car then one pulls and gun and fires at the driver for some reason

Well, if they have him on camera, hopefully they can properly ID him and arrest him. Or, better yet, he or someone else will turn him him.

Because what the ACTUAL fuck that is NOT OK.

 

[Revnak]

Protests update.

Protesters surround a car then one pulls and gun and fires at the driver for some reason

You could post the police statement rather than, uh, Mormon Nationalists? Also the dude’s been arrested.

 

[Gordon_4]

So, odds of this fiasco calming down for 4th July Weekend are I imagine, nil?

 

[Revnak]

So, odds of this fiasco calming down for 4th July Weekend are I imagine, nil?

Hahahahahahahahahaha... oh man...

 

[Gordon_4]

Hahahahahahahahahaha... oh man...

Yep, that’s what I thought.

 

[Revnak]

I’m sorry, I’m still just really stuck on the Mormon Nazis. How do you just find Mormon Nazis? Trying to find alternative sources I mostly just found some weird bot(s) posting an insane Op-Ed for what I think is a local newspaper, then the Mayor and the police. HOW DO YOU STUMBLE ON MORMON NAZIS?!?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I’m sorry, I’m still just really stuck on the Mormon Nazis. How do you just find Mormon Nazis? Trying to find alternative sources I mostly just found some weird bot(s) posting an insane Op-Ed for what I think is a local newspaper, then the Mayor and the police. HOW DO YOU STUMBLE ON MORMON NAZIS?!?

Twitter is full of gimmick accounts.

Also Mormon Nazi? Where are you getting that from? is it the hashtag being used because that's a meme........ well a set up for one.....

 

[Revnak]

Twitter is full of gimmick accounts.

Their hashtag ended in “Nat,” why do you do politics on twitter if you aren’t immediately suspicious of that? You can just look at the next couple posts in their feed?
Edit- literally one of his replies to that (recent so I’m not blaming you) has him calling the shooter “Anti-Mormon” for pointing out the Church’s horrible history with black Americans.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Their hashtag ended in “Nat,” why do you do politics on twitter if you aren’t immediately suspicious of that? You can just look at the next couple posts in their feed?

are you not familiar with Deez?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Twitter is full of gimmick accounts.

Also Mormon Nazi? Where are you getting that from? is it the hashtag being used because that's a meme........ well a set up for one.....

Is the meme being Mormon Nazis? Because that's a hashtag used by Mormons to designate gays and apostates.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Is the meme being Mormon Nazis? Because that's a hashtag used by Mormons to designate gays and apostates.

I was under the impression it was a play on the Deez meme

 

[Revnak]

are you not familiar with Deez?

Dez refers to Deserette. Just admit you followed the link from Andy Ngo’s posting of the vid and didn’t want to get made fun of for following Andy, who gives kill lists to Atomwaffen and is a threat to the community.
God you’re dumb.

 

[Revnak]

I was under the impression it was a play on the Deez meme

YOU CAN CLICK ON A HASHTAG. THEY ARE CLICKABLE. IT WILL TAKE SECONDS OFF OF YOUR LIFE.