I can very much answer the question. I already offered you the deal: You answer my question, that I asked you first, and then I'll answer yours.
I've got the answer all queued up, ready and waiting to go. It all depends on you.
New Call of Duty game let's players be Non-binary
- Thread starter CriticalGaming
- Start date
I've got the answer all queued up, ready and waiting to go. It all depends on you.
I don't have an answer because it is impossible to prove a negative, which is the whole point. That is how conspiracy theorists nourish their intellectual selves.
Now, wow us with your intellect.
So you can't prove that Hitler had a pet dragon. Therefore Hitler having a pet dragon doesn't contradict with established history. See? That's how it works.
Here's the answer to your question:
They tested their employees with polygraph tests, which would disqualify them from being hired if they were gay. They continued this up until the 1990s.
Not until 1991 did they make a decision that there should be no sort of policy to deny security clearance on the basis of sexual orientation, and not until 1994 did they adopt a policy not to discriminate in their hiring practices
The game takes place before that.
Plus, the term wasn't even coined until the 1990s anyway, so how could they have used a term that didn't even exist?
It's circumstantial evidence, but I think it's clear, beyond a reasonable doubt, that if they discriminated this hard against gays, they also didn't allow for gender identities outside the standard male/female binary, so it is my opinion that such a checkbox would contradict with established history.
That's just what the CIA WANTS you to think!!!!
You're playing right into their hand!!!!!!!!!!
That's valid, and it would work as secret history too.
"The government wanted you to believe that they were prejudiced against gays, but that was only a cover story to hide the real truth that...." and so on.
But the end result is still the same propaganda "the government is more progressive than it really was (or that you thought it was)".
If you come away thinking "the government's not really so bad", it's propaganda, even if it's a fictional depiction of the government.
Even Michael Bay's Transformer movies are propaganda, though not in the "secret history" genre, because the Army worked together with the director to glorify soldiers and make sure any use of military hardware was given a favorable portrayal.
They said to other agencies that they were firing them, but they were secretly being funneled into a Super CIA Gay Squad.
OFFICIAL decision.
The entire Cold War was a conflict between advanced queer ideologies; now that America has won, the CIA has slowly been leaking gender theory discoveries that the government had made a hundred years ago into the public consciousness.
Look at that. SECRET HISTORY YALL.
Prove that any of that didn't happen.
That would be valid secret history.
But it would still be propaganda, because it would paint the government in a more favorable light.
Glad to see you're getting the hang of the genre, though.
I'm not giving up any "lines". You just have an infantile understanding of "secret history" because you only learned about it a few minutes ago.
I wonder if you even play video games.
The non-binary option still contradicts with the "secret history" genre and established history. Just because you can make up a secret history story involving a valid use of the non-binary checkbox, it doesn't mean that the game uses your fiction.
Just because I can make a fanfiction of Legolas and Gimli, that doesn't mean that it actually impacts LOTR canon.
Oh, you probably don't know what any of that is, do you?
Guys, it's just a stupid historical fantasy game. Historical fantasies can do whatever they want.
Oh my god, another shitty day, another day brightened laughing at this dumb, dumb thread. Just...*chef's kiss* perfect. It is a little familiar though (you can be forgiven, it was almost 500 posts ago holy shit this thread dragged on...)
I guess you could say...
*puts on sunglasses*
secret history repeats itself.
If you're still claiming not to be transphobic, stuff like that is not helping your case.
This thread: My fantasy is the only fantasy that allowed. Everything else should be removed
Do you have anything further to say about propaganda, secret history, or the non-binary checkbox, or have I addressed all your points and refuted all your arguments?
You have addressed all my points, and refuted no arguments. I'm happy with it.
Of course, if you'd read the entry in detail and not just pulled out the details that you, personally, like, you'd've read that (and this is the second paragraph of the Prospective Outcomes entry you quoted)
"If gender dysphoria persists during puberty, it is very likely permanent.[5][7] For those with persisting or remitting gender dysphoria, the period between 10 and 13 years is crucial with regard to long-term gender identity.[29]Factors that are associated with gender dysphoria persisting through puberty include intensity of gender dysphoria, amount of cross-gendered behavior, and verbal identification with the desired/experienced gender (i.e. stating that they are a different gender rather than wish to be a different gender).[28]"
So yeah. Puberty blockers at 13. If still persistent, cross gender hormones around 16. It's, like, maybe the Endocrine Society knows how the endocrine system works.
This pulling out specific sections and ignoring what you don't like is Gate shit.
I'm one of those kids who desisted (temporarily) as soon as puberty hit. I must've been a boy 'cause my voice changed and my balls dropped and my only exposure to non-cis people at the time was Ace Ventura. Knowing the language of 2020 would've saved me 20+ years of depression and anxiety regarding being non-binary and ace. (See, I wasn't a tranny because I didn't want to be a woman either. 1998 me just didn't have the language, but I sure wanted that cheek swab to show something other than XY in the science club)
But here in lies my point. There's something that feels wrong for many of the people feeling this but the answer people put forth does not work. An adult that chooses to change their body is perfectly fine, people are free to do what they wish to themselves. It is the pushing of this onto others that I greatly disagree with. You should be free to do what you think is best for yourself but people that are still having decisions made for them should not be told to make these kinds of decisions when the effects can be so damaging.
And all of us vent on the forums. So long as we don't start actively attacking each other then I see no problem with it (And honestly, if that's you venting then you don't even rate in the top ten angry venters on this forum, me being one of them. You're fine.)
- Nov 27, 2009
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- Country
- The Dreamlands
- Gender
- Lose 1d20 sanity points.
Well I've already addressed this with Houseman, but I don't think removing access to hormone therapy (Whether that's puberty blockers or HRT) for minors is really going to solve the problem you're complaining about, let's keep in mind that a lot of these "trans-trenders" are actually not that but just different types of non-binary people that were given a binary treatment that doesn't help them and it's also a term used by bigoted trans people that don't recognise non-binary genders and is technically therefore kind off a slur bur whatever.
Anyways let's say we make sure that minors don't have access to HRT nor puberty blockers, what now?
So what would likely happen would be as follows, all the trans kids that need the treatment will have it denied leading to depression and in many cases suicides as well as many mental health problems (I've discussed my own in pretty extensive detail in this thread), non-binary trans kids would still be screwed and the "trenders" don't get access to legitimate medical treatments, so what? Is that a success?
You basically just screwed all of these demographics.
Let me elaborate on why, we live on the information age, everything you want to know is at one google search away, so let's say kids that are any of these three groups want HRT because they read about it on the Internet, which isn't hard I've spent the past month doing so in addition to seeking professional help, so here we ask ourselves how hard is it to get one's hands on grey market hormones?
The answer is not very hard at all, seriously just google it, you can buy these things online fairly easily with nothing more than a credit or debit card and they are over-the-counter medications at pharmacies, it wouldn't be hard to fake your mother's writing to get your hands on estrogen for example, or to steal your grandma's estrogen if you wanted, same with testosterone, so really all you'd be doing is leaving these kids with only the option of self-medicating which many of them will take, hell many of them already do that because they do it in secret because they don't want their parents to know, so congratulations by removing legal access to it you've made the problem worse for everyone for which the situation is relevant, especially because taking the wrong doses of these hormones can have pretty bad medical repercussions in the long term.
Of course to combat this one could always make access to these hormones harder, but in doing so you would be making things more difficult for those that need them for Hormone Re-affirmation Treatments, such as people with testicular cancer or people suffering from menopause, so if you do that you would be making things harder for yet more people.
The truth of the matter is that what you guys are proposing doesn't solve any problems it just creates more, the thing is here both you guys and us trans people agree that the current system is bad and that needs to be addressed, but you are approaching this from the completely wrong angle, we should think of how can we best address the majority of these problems.
For me what sounds like the most sensible way to address this, is to make access to gender therapist more available to kids and to make it a requirement for kids to receive extensive psychological evaluations and treatment before the time comes to decide what treatment is right for them, this way we can make sure that binary trans people can keep receiving the treatments they need, non-binaries receive the actual treatment they need (For many of them it will be simply psychological, for others actual medical treatment is required) and the "trenders" or "fakers" or "confused kids" or whatever you want to call them could more easily be spotted before any treatments are given, I honestly think this is the most logical way to address all problems, this does still leave some issues out there as if the Therapist isn't good one could get the wrong answer (Though that's always a risk, even for adults), grey market treatments would still be available for those desperate enough to seek them and so on, but I think it will be far more effective than simply removing access to these treatments completely.
And yet, the discussion somehow survived you questioning my sanity, and has now survived you declaring that the 20+ posts I have made on this thread do not demonstrate a meaningful rationality.
Why do you have the singular right to declare that the discussion is over as soon as you are offended? I'm not asking you to stop talking, I'm asking you to give thought to the implications of your own words, particularly if you're going to demand the same in return.
You began this discussion on the operating assumption that being trans or non-binary is a mental flaw, and thus that it makes people automatically less rational than you. That is a transphobic assumption, and one that makes it impossible to argue with you in good faith. You can disagree all you want, but that is the rationality that in my mind (and the mind of many people, I suspect) makes you transphobic. It's entirely up to you how you feel about that, or whether you choose to improve. I will happily argue with you regardless, but if you want a nice polite friendly argument, maybe don't make bizarre, unevidenced claims that my gender identity is a mental illness.
As I think I made clear earlier, I only called you out on this because you came out and accused Kae of calling you transphobic.
If you had any relevant experience or knowledge, you'd know that therapy is a pretty standard treatment for people with GD. I've had therapy myself. That said, I don't really care if you find my worldview reasonable or not, because you are not the only person on this planet with the ability to judge what is reasonable. I trust my doctors to make that determination more than I trust you, for example. But if all you really wanted was my life story, or my thoughts on what it means to be trans or non-binary, you should have asked for them instead of assuming you already knew the answers.
That said, I'm glad Kae managed to get through to you. Hopefully that's the first step towards a genuine understanding on your part.
You don't typically give hormone therapy to young trans people. That's why puberty blockers are used in the first place.
Puberty blockers are largely reversible because they only work for the duration they are in your system. If you stop taking puberty blockers, you go through puberty. There are certainly side effects, and are certainly things we don't know about the way puberty works or the possible effects of delaying it, hence why I said "largely" rather than "completely" reversible, but physically puberty blockers are pretty much reversible.
It's worth noting that puberty blockers are also used to treat children with early onset puberty. Puberty itself can carry health risks, and it's entirely reasonable to use drugs to control it. The issues only seem to come up when trans people are involved.
Again, not relevant because that surgery is only available to adults.
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