New Call of Duty game let's players be Non-binary

hanselthecaretaker

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None of that is swapping genders.

Girls partake in stuff intended for boys and vice versa all the time. None of that involves, or at least requires, gender flipping.



1: Australian
2: I'm neither proud nor ashamed, because it's a ridiculous question - there's nearly 200 nations in that world, there's nothing inherent in a quirk of geography
3: Nothing - we're all individuals

Being honest, I know this wasn't meant for me, but I roll my eyes every time someone says "I'm proud to be (nationality)." It's utterly ridiculous. Yes, I'm not immune to being more attached to some countries than others, but I can at least try and keep myself separate from the rah-rah. If you're being proud, it should be pride reserved for actual achievements, not something as arbitary as nationality, or any number of things that are inherent, or easily obtained.
I think that alone would change a lot. Same with the golden rule being numero uno.
 

Houseman

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Modern psychiatry focuses on improving the quality of life of the patient, with the patient as the final arbiter of whether that has been successful or not.
Maybe that's just a fundamentally flawed way of going about doing it, kind of like treating an alcoholic with alcohol.
 

Silvanus

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gender dismorphia [...]
You mean dysphoria. Dysmorphia is a medical term, but not one that applies here.

And let's be truthful with each other for a moment. Transgenderism or gender dismorphia IS a mental condition. There is nothing wrong with the body, the desire to be the other gender as to what the body developed into (you aren't assigned a gender, medically they assign sex and sex and gender is an interchangeable term in the medical field) is strictly contained within the mind.
Not quite: physical biologists may refer to sex and gender in interchangeable ways, though they've been moving away from doing so recently. But the "medical field" includes psychiatry, developmental paediatrics, counselling & mental health, and in those fields sex and gender are not used interchangeably.

Dysphoria describes the mis-match between physicality/morphology and gender identity. Researchers & doctors uniformly agree that the latter is not simply an expression of the former, so it's not sufficient to solely address the latter purely via therapy.

If we're talking about actual measurable success rate, GRS (alongside counselling) is generally successful. Much more successful than solely therapy. It does not make sense to try to improve quality of life by shifting away from the approach that has brought us by far the most success so far with improving quality of life.

Maybe that's just a fundamentally flawed way of going about doing it, kind of like treating an alcoholic with alcohol.
I mean, the individual usually isn't just flat-out asked, and their answer taken unquestioned. The individual is usually asked by a professional, who can ask further questions, probe a bit, analyse, and determine from their own expertise whether the improvement is authentic and genuine.
 

CriticalGaming

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Why is it that you think that the solution is "correct medication" when no medication tried so far has worked and gender correction and therapy has a respectable (if not exactly stellar) success rate?
Medical advancement is made all the time. Just because no medication works perfectly NOW, doesn't mean we wont figure out something that will work later.

The brain is still one of mankind's biggest mysteries. An incredibly complex piece of equipment that medical science is still trying to figure out and everything we discover something, the brain says "Fuck you, I'll come up with something even crazier".
 

Thaluikhain

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The alternative would be a return to paternalistic psychiatry and the idea that people suffering from mental disorders are inherently incapable of caring for themselves or gauging their own well-being and that's a really dark road to take, especially if we want to live in liberal societies with inalienable human rights.
Without meaning to disagree with you in your field, I'd point out that there's a lot of people who argue that society (or at least the medicos they've dealt with personally) haven't moved on from there just yet.
 
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CriticalGaming

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PS. I also think it is pretty cool that you took your time to actually do some reading up on the issue, even if I might disagree with what you are saying. DS.
i appreciate that.

It's always great when we can disagree on topics, but remain civil and at least attempt to understand where both sides are coming from.
 

McElroy

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Which is sadly true. I've met a lot of people working the field who holds that view, or at least hasn't quite moved on from it yet. These improvements are taking way longer then they should, but the jumping off point of modern psychiatric care is, at least, that the patient is a team member in the recovery process and not a hapless subject to be treated at the whim of psychiatric staff.
Medical professionals end up with a dilemma: they can claim they're just treating patients without politics involved, but politics is involved in any given healthcare system and beyond the health choices and outcomes of any individual. Maybe personality disorders aren't psychiatric issues at all but just "neurodiversity. And oh dear how to nail down what "good mental health" even is? Asking people themselves is a good start, but culture and politics follow close behind.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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It gets scary - disturbingly so if you’re a parent - when special interests/social groups start pushing agendas on kids and furthermore put pressure on the medical communities that should be immune to it; in some cases even resorting to personal attacks via defamation of character to try forcing their hand.


A comment from the clip,

San Francisco Love
I’m all for people being who they want to be but hear me out. I was a total tomboy. I cried if I was made to wear a dress. I cut my hair short without telling my parents. I wore flannel shirts and boots to school. I built tree houses and ripped off Barbie heads. I ONLY wanted to hang with boys. I didn’t tell my mom about my period for months. I cried when I had to wear girl cloths(my mom paid me to do so for a funeral) Then I started getting hips. Boys started wanting to hang with me because I was cute. And then I realized skirts looked cute on me. If I grew up in this day and age with the wrong parents, I would have been transgender. As a kid, I would have begged for it. Children don’t know who they are yet.

Curiosities are fine, but it can be irreversibly damaging in so many ways when they’re enabled into something else entirely.
 

Silvanus

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It gets scary - disturbingly so if you’re a parent - when special interests/social groups start pushing agendas on kids and furthermore put pressure on the medical communities that should be immune to it; in some cases even resorting to personal attacks via defamation of character to try forcing their hand.
What "agenda" is being pushed, apart from the idea that people should be open to the possibility of gender dysphoria and investigate it if its applicable to them?

Trans activists aren't just going around convincing kids to change sex. They aren't telling kids that gender-atypical behaviour is a definitive sign of being trans. And if kids get the wrong impression or if cis kids mistakenly think they're trans, then they should be discussing it with a counsellor.
 

Iron

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What "agenda" is being pushed, apart from the idea that people should be open to the possibility of gender dysphoria and investigate it if its applicable to them?

Trans activists aren't just going around convincing kids to change sex. They aren't telling kids that gender-atypical behaviour is a definitive sign of being trans. And if kids get the wrong impression or if cis kids mistakenly think they're trans, then they should be discussing it with a counsellor.
It can be normal If counselors are responsible, and make their due-diligence.
I've spent a couple of hours reading the personal story of a girl, that went FTMTF and talked about her being ostracized after she decided to transition back into a woman. She also talked about the ease in which she was referred to this kind of procedure by the in-house counselor (can't remember if psychologist or social worker) in her college at the time. If I ever get the urge to go down the rabbit hole again and find it for you, I'll send it over. I only remember the broad strokes because I read it a year ago.

Transitioning as children will make them infertile.

What would be a better way to go about it?

The reason it is done that way, as I addressed earler in this thread, is because mental illness is very often subjective and hard to measure in objective terms. So if the person receiving care feels that they are feeling better, that's often the best measure of success we have. The alternative would be a return to paternalistic psychiatry and the idea that people suffering from mental disorders are inherently incapable of caring for themselves or gauging their own well-being and that's a really dark road to take, especially if we want to live in liberal societies with inalienable human rights.
Would you let this person have their leg amputated?
I wouldn't.
 

Silvanus

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It can be normal If counselors are responsible, and make their due-diligence.
I've spent a couple of hours reading the personal story of a girl, that went FTMTF and talked about her being ostracized after she decided to transition back into a woman. She also talked about the ease in which she was referred to this kind of procedure by the in-house counselor (can't remember if psychologist or social worker) in her college at the time. If I ever get the urge to go down the rabbit hole again and find it for you, I'll send it over. I only remember the broad strokes because I read it a year ago.
That's pretty tragic. But examples of failed due diligence/ malpractice/ improper regulation or vetting don't invalidate the principle, just as examples of surgical malpractice don't invalidate the principle that heart surgery is sometimes necessary and lifesaving. The fact remains that GSR has the highest success rate among all the approaches that've been implemented.
 

Houseman

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That's pretty tragic. But examples of failed due diligence/ malpractice/ improper regulation or vetting don't invalidate the principle, just as examples of surgical malpractice don't invalidate the principle that heart surgery is sometimes necessary and lifesaving. The fact remains that GSR has the highest success rate among all the approaches that've been implemented.
Why was the principle of "conversion therapy" invalidated?
 

Silvanus

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Why was the principle of "conversion therapy" invalidated?
The abysmal record, and the fact it was only ever implemented on the basis of prejudice and without actual need. Huge damage to quality-of-life, repression, suicide, lack of scientific basis. Plus the fact that being gay doesn't need to be fixed. The two are incomparable.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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If we're going to be making the argument that trans and non-binary people don't "count" as a valid identity because they represent ~2% of the population, you can't then use the ~2% of trans or non-binary people that detransition as a reason to do it.
Especially when most detransitioners do so due to societal pressure.

I can read anecdotes too. The one that sticks with me is the gal that transitioned after knowingly lying to their therapist for years. I mean, it does suck that she managed to fool her therapist, but what the hell. That's like blaming doctors because I got addicted to opiates after lying about being in pain to get opiates.

That said, I do know a couple people who stopped transitioning or detransitioned. It was the therapy they needed at the time and they stopped when they didn't need it anymore