New Deus Ex Not "Dumbed Down" for Consoles

[JaredXE]

So by "Not dumbing it down for the consoles" do they mean they are dumbing it down for the PC?

Seriously, regenerating health without an actual reason for it (I.E. you're Wolverine) is pansy play. Having to hunt for health provides tension, rewards exploration and punishes stupidity.

 

[Cynical skeptic]

Stopped reading here. There are several detailed previews knocking about where people have be shown a few (but not all) the ways to approach a level, depending on how you like to play (gunz, stealthz, talkiez) and that it's totally up to you. They're not leading you by the hand at all.

Old image, can't find it, shitty dilapidated shack that, apparantly, contains an objective. Front door is locked with a hackable keypad, next to a partially open window, with a locked (pickable) sewer grate, then a large crack in the ceiling with a ladder leading to it. Captioned with, "does it really fucking matter?" Basically meaning multiple solutions to a problem don't mean much of anything when they're all completely apparent and effortless.

Just because you can say "I wanna go this way mommy!" doesn't mean you aren't being lead by the hand.

First level of deus ex was designed to where pretty much any playstyle would get you through it. The goal was for you to figure out how you wanted to get through it. Determine what you like to do, then augment yourself accordingly later.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

I'm very Anxious about this game, as i see it, it will be a blast !

 

[Woodsey]

Stopped reading here. There are several detailed previews knocking about where people have be shown a few (but not all) the ways to approach a level, depending on how you like to play (gunz, stealthz, talkiez) and that it's totally up to you. They're not leading you by the hand at all.

First level of deus ex was designed to where pretty much any playstyle would get you through it. The goal was for you to figure out how you wanted to get through it. Determine what you like to do, then augment yourself accordingly later.

Yup.

Same with the preview level journalists have been shown of DXHR. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Echo136]

Man I really need to finish Deus Ex. Im only a few hours away from the end of it.

 

[I_am_acting]

I have a feeling they didn't take anything out for the consoles because the game was already 'dumbed down' to begin with.

Very political-esque word choice.

invisible wars to be sure, not the original desu ex

 

[fullbleed]

So by "Not dumbing it down for the consoles" do they mean they are dumbing it down for the PC?

Seriously, regenerating health without an actual reason for it (I.E. you're Wolverine) is pansy play. Having to hunt for health provides tedium, rewards exploration and punishes stupidity.

There fixed for you, I'm a PC gamer and huge fan of the first game and you know what I have high hopes for this and I think it looks realy good. Why are you acting like the health system and lack of real stealth was something integral to the game, as though that's what made it what it is today. No not the brilliant level design and inovative open ended narrative structure and good characterisation or the cyberpunk design asthetic.

Shut up and get over it, you're doing a greater diservice to the game by saying that some how regenerative health would ruin it by dumbing it down to the extent that a more modern health system would render ever other design decision in the game pointless, that's the extent of what you're saying.

 

[mad825]

As for the cover system, it's there for stealth as much as it is for action. Why? Because stealth in DX was shit! I walked 10 feet in front of an enemy on the first mission with no points in stealth and he didn't see me. They dumbed it down on purpose to get it to work. The cover system answers that by making it based more on line of sight. Augs (or whatever they're called now) help with that play style.

personally, the AI in Deus EX wasn't perfect. it is explained that they have "reaction times" which means there are delays in terms of detecting you and other types of NPCs have different "reaction times", as there were many flaws in the AI (detecting) as I can remember some cases were the NPC could see me through a door/wall and also NPCs sometimes couldn't see me through transparent glass.

the cover (third-person) system in #3 completely screws over the point of stealth as looking around a corner now, can never get any easier!

 

[incal11]

Same with the preview level journalists have been shown of DXHR. Thanks for proving my point.

I think what he meant was that everything is made too obvious, your mileage may vary, but personally I think it's a pithy to try and make the "full experience" available to even the most brain dead of gamers...

you're doing a greater diservice to the game by saying that some how regenerative health would ruin it by dumbing it down to the extent that a more modern health system would render ever other design decision in the game pointless, that's the extent of what you're saying.

Being recent does not make regenerative health a good idea, not for all games anyway. At least, in a good game, you would be compelled to just go exploring, and you would regularly stumble on health packs, which is always rewarding. Whereas with regeneration you stay crouched behind your wall, just waiting, and that's not very fulfilling. Sure it provides tension(tm), but after a dozen games getting bored out of my skull behind my wall I'll take exploration any day. What's worse is that it seems to encourage developers to make very linear levels with little room for variety.

 

[fullbleed]

That's cute.

Isn't that what Gas powered said when they were making Supreme Commander 2? They changed publishers to Square Enix iirc.

Oh wait. Deus Ex is being published by Square Enix as well.

I'm not holding my breath here.

Was sup com 2 dumbed down for consoles? I wasn't even aware it was on console, as an RTS game they must have put all of their effort into the PC version as that's the logical platform for the genre, and you know what I bet it didn't sell on console. Is it dumbed down though, oh surely yes, but not for console gamers for fucking normal people!

The first game was an amazingly difficult and obtuse strategy game that struggled to find and audience due to a lack luster single player campaign and the sheer overwellming diffculty of playing it. They made it more accessible and is that such a bad thing that they wnat more people to be able to enjoy their game? Esspecially when the first was about accessible as Microsoft Access.

 

[Woodsey]

As for the cover system, it's there for stealth as much as it is for action. Why? Because stealth in DX was shit! I walked 10 feet in front of an enemy on the first mission with no points in stealth and he didn't see me. They dumbed it down on purpose to get it to work. The cover system answers that by making it based more on line of sight. Augs (or whatever they're called now) help with that play style.

personally, the AI in Deus EX wasn't perfect. it is explained that they have "reaction times" which means there are delays in terms of detecting you and other types of NPCs have different "reaction times", as there were many flaws in the AI (detecting) as I can remember some cases were the NPC could see me through a door/wall and also NPCs sometimes couldn't see me through transparent glass.

the cover (third-person) system in #3 completely screws over the point of stealth as looking around a corner now, can never get any easier!

You're right, I'm sure the cover system makes you totally invisible *rolls eyes several times*.

 

[ribonuge]

He says "not dumbed down", but with regenerative health and a cover system it seems streamlining this for a "modern audience" is having that exact effect.

I am scared that he is talking out his arse like Peter Molyneux. Somebody console me.

 

[fullbleed]

Being recent does not make regenerative health a good idea, not for all games anyway. At least, in a good game, you would be compelled to go exploring, and you would regularly stumble on health packs, which is always rewarding. Whereas with regeneration you stay crouched behind your wall, just waiting, and that's not very fulfilling. Sure it provides tension(tm), but after a dozen games getting bored out of my skull behind my wall I'll take exploration any day. What's worse is that it seems to encourage developers to make very linear levels with little room for variety.

In Deus Ex and games in general you don't go exploring because you need a medkit, you go exploring because you want to go exploring. Deus Ex didn't design it's levels, fights and health system make you deliberately lose health and have an incentive to go exploring. Finding mod and augs was the incetive to go exploring, experince points, new characters and back story and alternative solutions to levels was the incentive to go exploring, not because you needed a fucking medkit?

Look at Mass Effect 2, regenerating health system, did I go exploring? Hell yeah and I know I'm actually part of the majority becuase the average completetion time for that game was 33 hours, what must people have been doing in that game if not exploring? And remember this a xbox and PC game so some of those people must have been the console thickos that they suposedly have to dumb games down for..

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/09/07/mass-effect-2-statistics-are-properly-batshit/

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

Sounds good to me. Besides the PS2 version of the original Deus Ex wasn't all that bad. Let's hope this is fine as well.

When they removed location damage, Jesus wept. Seriously in a game that revelled in it's own depth, that was a blow to me. Different streaks for different freaks, but I loved that your accuracy lowered when your arms were damaged, and your had a limp when your legs were damaged. Loved it.

But obviously it was still a great game.

I feel so sorry for this man. The amount of *****-fitting that goes into them having a regenerative health system and cover-system is beyond ridiculous.

It's 10 years later.

I dare say that the amount of effort put into whining about such things shows how much supposed fans don't seem to understand; if you think the heart of Deus Ex lays within it's health-system you are sorely mistaken. Deus Ex had a regenerative health augment anyway, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I, for one, cannot wait for this.

*Takes the glove* It's a challenge !
Seriously though, the regenerative augmentation came late in the game, had to be turned on and off and consumed electrical energy which didn't regenerate alone either. Dumping all that for halo-like regeneration is still a dumbing down, sort of an insult to the players' intelligence.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's no bar for electrical energy and it regenerates too, if electrical energy even go into the equation in that game. I also hope they looked at invisible war only to know what was wrong with it.

I know it makes sense to make it all more "streamlined" for todays audience, which is considerably larger than ten years ago. In the end I don't care if they put in regeneration and cover system to please the console gamers, if it's a good game it will compensate it's own flaws.

Still it'd be so cool if there was a "hardcore mode" that you could put on which would make the game closer to how the first deus ex was.

I agree with Woodsey, but I agree with you more personally.

I don't have a problem with regenerative health and all. Picking up healthpacks that magically heal all your wounds is just as unrealistic. I care for a well flowing game.

The problem is that Deus Ex 2 was a game that really showed the ugly side of "multi-platform". The levels were smaller then in the first one, which killed exploration, mostly due to the limitations of the XBOX. The ammo system was dumbed down because the developers did not want to build a sane inventory system that worked with all controls. Controls on the PC were horrible. In almost every way, Deus Ex 1 was the better game. After stressing so much that DX2 would be a great multi title, it can be forgiven to PC gamers that they hated the second one for that.

Beyond the problematic interface and movement, the game had other problems: The physics were way worse then those shown by games built on the same engine. Enemies did a double somersault when shot in the head with a sniper rifle. You could hide bodies by throwing them on a building (without strength mod). The story had thousands of options but none of them were really engaging because you never caught a glimpse on whats going on. Often, the options didn't seem to have the impact they had in the first game (Like people slightly altering the dialoge if you witnessed them torturing others or not). The environments tried to mimic the real world but totally failed, especially compared to the Statue of Liberty-kind of scale in the first game. It all felt like there was a lot of time invested into things that did not make a better game.

Deus Ex 1 had a lot of problematic elements, the combat was mediocre, the texture work was mediocre, animations were limited and it only had a very limited set of models that all wore different textures. But the story was engaging, mind-tickeling and paid attention to all the small details. The locations were great and you could play for long streches without load times. The character system that rewarded you for exploration as much as for combat was great. It rewarded attentiveness ("hey, that body shouldn't be here..."). All that went away in the second one.

So, sorry that i am cautious: if Deus Ex 3 doesn't pull off something truly spectacular, the Deus Ex series will finally be the Matrix Triology of gaming. I will try it, but I do not wait for it.

Very well put, however I as I said above I don't think it's a question of realism, rather one of depth. I can see why people would see it as a dumbing down as well, when you look at console FPS, they just don't like Limited Health at all, while PC gamers apparently do.

At the end of the day, I can kill someone I might not have been supposed to, and certain parts of the world changed as a result. There have been very few games that have had that kind of impact. People need to understand that as much as this game looks promising (and my opinion has gone from "fuck this blasphemous game!" to "I'm actually interested and anticipating it") the first game existed and was praised and hailed for it's design that stuck with people for an entire decade. And IW tried and failed. Fool me once...

 

[Atmos Duality]

*snort*

"Not dumbed down for consoles" is the first thing developers say when their new version of a classic pc franchise IS being dumbed down for the console.

I waited over a decade for the abomination that is Fallout 3, and I'm not going to believe and hype-based con-job by a bunch of money-grubbing game devs. RiP, Deus Ex.

Holy shit. I was thinking the same exact thing with the Fallout 3 bit.

"Not dumbed down for consoles" is a lie anyway, just going on the technical limitations alone (graphics, controls, and yes, the target demographic too).

 

[incal11]

In Deus Ex and games in general you don't go exploring because you need a medkit, you go exploring because you want to go exploring. Deus Ex didn't design it's levels, fights and health system make you deliberately lose health and have an incentive to go exploring. Finding mod and augs was the incetive to go exploring, experince points, new characters and back story and alternative solutions to levels was the incentive to go exploring, not because you needed a fucking medkit?

Look at Mass Effect 2, regenerating health system, did I go exploring? Hell yeah and I know I'm actually part of the majority becuase the average completetion time for that game was 33 hours, what must people have been doing in that game if not exploring? And remember this a xbox and PC game.

In deus ex medkit was just one of the reasons to go exploring along with what you mentioned, and that's because it was a good game. Depending on how you play it medkits are still an incentive, or not, but my point stays.

About ME2, knowing Bioware I suspect it's about 20 hours talking + 5 hours grinding in a minigame + 5 hours taking cover in repetitive firefights, that leaves about 3 hours of exploring

 

[dududf]

That's cute.

Isn't that what Gas powered said when they were making Supreme Commander 2? They changed publishers to Square Enix iirc.

Oh wait. Deus Ex is being published by Square Enix as well.

I'm not holding my breath here.

Was sup com 2 dumbed down for consoles? I wasn't even aware it was on console, as an RTS game they must have put all of their effort into the PC version as that's the logical platform for the genre, and you know what I bet it didn't sell on console. Is it dumbed down though, oh surely yes, but not for console gamers for fucking normal people!

The first game was an amazingly difficult and obtuse strategy game that struggled to find and audience due to a lack luster single player campaign and the sheer overwellming diffculty of playing it. They made it more accessible and is that such a bad thing that they wnat more people to be able to enjoy their game? Esspecially when the first was about accessible as Microsoft Access.

Are we talking about the same game? Supreme Commander was not hard.

 

[ImprovizoR]

Hey, I have an idea! Lets trust that guy! He's only a lead game designer. This is sarcasm in case you didn't notice. I don't trust anything these game developers say these days. Most of them are lying sons of bitches. Besides, there are always limitations when you develop a multiplatform game. Consoles can't handle everything that PC's can. That's why Crysis wasn't on consoles. That is also why Crysis 2 wont receive the same good reviews from PC gamers. That lead designer guy is just full of shit. I'll wait for PC user reviews thank you very much.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Well said. Especially as the health augmentation can be installed fairly early on (I think) and there was always a spare medpack around somewhere.

If I remember correctly, it was only at the end of the Hong-kong section of the game, I wouldn't say it's "fairly early", but maybe a little before the middle of the game. Also it's only one of two options.

I feel so sorry for this man. The amount of *****-fitting that goes into them having a regenerative health system and cover-system is beyond ridiculous.

It's 10 years later.

I dare say that the amount of effort put into whining about such things shows how much supposed fans don't seem to understand; if you think the heart of Deus Ex lays within it's health-system you are sorely mistaken. Deus Ex had a regenerative health augment anyway, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I, for one, cannot wait for this.

*Takes the glove* It's a challenge !
Seriously though, the regenerative augmentation came late in the game, had to be turned on and off and consumed electrical energy which didn't regenerate alone either. Dumping all that for halo-like regeneration is still a dumbing down, sort of an insult to the players' intelligence.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's no bar for electrical energy and it regenerates too, if electrical energy even go into the equation in that game. I also hope they looked at invisible war only to know what was wrong with it.

I know it makes sense to make it all more "streamlined" for todays audience, which is considerably larger than ten years ago. In the end I don't care if they put in regeneration and cover system to please the console gamers, if it's a good game it will compensate it's own flaws.

Still it'd be so cool if there was a "hardcore mode" that you could put on which would make the game closer to how the first deus ex was.

Why, exactly, is regenerating health "dumbed down"? Simplified, maybe, but not dumbed down. Because backtracking for fifteen minutes in search of a medpack you may or may not have seen isn't actually any smarter than taking cover, is it?

I'm glad there's regenerating health, it's so much better than med kits. And I don't know why games are dumbed down for consoles, the controls just need to be simplified, not the mechanics.