I honestly wonder if the performance could just be improved by better occlusion culling, I know there was a mod like that for Skyrim that could seriously help out performance.
I'm a console guy, so I've played probably everything you have on consoles. But I remember with Sleeping Dogs or Watch Dogs seeing all these comparison videos of 30 vs 60. I'm telling you, I don't see it. I've never had problems with FoV either, go figure.KingsGambit said:Except that there is. You may not spot the difference, but there are millions of gamers who can and do. It is a difference in not only how a game looks, but how it responds to player action/input and is most apparent in fast-paced "twitch" games. I won't buy a PC game with a 30fps cap, at all. It is a sub-par product made by a company who were incapable or unwilling to make a game properly.SaneAmongInsane said:This is an admitted cranky over-reaction to your response but: OH MY FUCKING GOD, WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT FRAMES PER SECOND!KingsGambit said:I just loaded it up to check, on my PC w/ max/ultra settings.AccursedTheory said:Its not a big deal, but it is disappointing. Kind of a ham fisted fix, isn't it?
As a PC Master Racist, does this apply to all settings, or only lower end settings?
The lobby and office level(s) were fine, normal shadows as expected. But on the assembly floor, nothing. The only light source that still produced shadows was a burning waste barrel by the stairs near the door to roof. All the static lights and more bizarrely, the moving spotlights cast no shadows. It looks really, really weird. Even my character and Dogmeat were shadow free. Seeing the spotlights moving and no shadows is really fecking wierd. I never had any issues in there, but in a hamfisted approach to patching I have them gone because current gen consoles can't produce them at reasonable FPS. Is it locked to 30fps on consoles, out of interest? If it is, then it's a travesty.
Anyway, if there isn't one already, I'm sure there soon will be a mod to reinstate the shadow flags in there for PC gamers. I want to say something like that would prob require the toolset, but there is already a mod that turns shadows on for pipboy and power armour helmet lights, so it may well be doable in FO4Edit.
I see people constantly whine or praise this frame rate or that frame rate, unless the game is stuttering I litterally can not tell. Hell I still don't know what a screen tare is!! I've been playing video games for years, people complain about screen taring, I'm convinced at a certain point people just make up shit to care about.
This is not singling out you, you understand, but it's like I don't give a shit if the light source in one room is casting shadows or not. Hell, I'd doubt I've even noticed things producing shadows and I wouldn't be able to pick it out unless I saw them side by side.
The types of shit I care about is like the glitch that causes the game to break if you enter one area of the map OR a glitch I ran into where my power armor didn't go on the right way and I was locked out of both my pip boy, my weapons, and my ability to escape my robotic hell like I was trapped in a five nights at freddy suit.
I apologize for being a surly bastard, but there is no tangible difference between 30-60 frames.
The issue with the shadows is a different one, and comes down to immersion. When playing a game like this and enjoying the atmosphere and environments, this stuff shatters the illusion. There is a blinding, moving spotlight shining right on my character and I know that there should be a shadow there, but there isn't. She's become a vampire. It is immersion breaking, particularly when it happens in one particular place and not others.
I'm personally also quite put off by things like headbob and the terrible FoVs console ports end up with on PC. The headbob in FO4 is horrible, particularly in power armour but it's *just* this side of playable for me (many other players however cannot play FO4 right now) and I'm very hopeful a way to disable it appears soon. FoV can cause motion sickness in people (as can head bob) sensitive to such things. I don't suffer it, but I hate, hate, hate low FoVs. If I cannot play at 80-85+ MINIMUM, 95-105 preferred, I will probably uninstall the game entirely. Sleeping Dogs and Mafia 2 are probably the only games I can name that I've played in spite of a terrible FoV, and those were good games let down by this issue. They would have been better without it. A PC game at 65-75 FoV is a horrible experience.
If you haven't seen screen tearing before, you either don't play many fast paced action games/FPSs or have Vsync on all the time. Without vsync and/or triple buffering, it can be quite apparent in many games. You can see it usually when moving your mouse quite fast around an environment (f.ex sweeping left-right, up-down, up-right diagonal to down-left diagonal, etc), usually a line across the screen, straight or slightly jagged (depending on the point at which the second frame started getting drawn).
These are real technical issues that affect games and gamers. You may be easily impressed and consider 30FPS generic set-piece games magnificent, but for many, many others issues such as FPS, FoV, headbob, tearing/artifacts/ghosting, shadows, immersion, responsiveness, UI, controls, loading times, AI, body/decal fade, LoD and what have you are important and noticeable when there's an issue.
The thing is that an FoV of 65-75 is used *for* the console version because it suits it. I cannot know your precise setup, but if you are like the majority of console gamers, you are likely sitting at least 4-5 feet away from your screen. At 4-5 feet or more, an FoV of 65-75 is fine and I've had no problem playing my 360 with that since I sit far enough away that it makes sense.SaneAmongInsane said:I'm a console guy, so I've played probably everything you have on consoles. But I remember with Sleeping Dogs or Watch Dogs seeing all these comparison videos of 30 vs 60. I'm telling you, I don't see it. I've never had problems with FoV either, go figure.
Nope, no confirmation whatsoever given, nor can your opinion the game was rushed out be any sort of valid when you've never played the game. Its fucking great, buy it, its got a lot of problems, but isn't even close to skimpy on content, nor does it feel rushed out at all.sanquin said:Just confirmation that the game was rushed out, in my opinion. Also confirmation that Bethesda never plans to actually fix issues like these in their games.
For a while it was just a real, but funny joke. "Bethesda games always have their special brand of bugs and glitches." That's great and all, but I think enough is enough. After so many years they should be doing better by now, not stick to the status quo. I'm kinda glad I didn't give in to the temptation to buy the game.
Clearly a lot of people except for you otherwise you wouldn't have responded the way you did. Y'know, given theres a small uproar everytime we get fed "30 FPS is more cinematic". Just because you don't care, that doesn't make it a fact.SaneAmongInsane said:This is an admitted cranky over-reaction to your response but: OH MY FUCKING GOD, WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT FRAMES PER SECOND!KingsGambit said:I just loaded it up to check, on my PC w/ max/ultra settings.AccursedTheory said:Its not a big deal, but it is disappointing. Kind of a ham fisted fix, isn't it?
As a PC Master Racist, does this apply to all settings, or only lower end settings?
The lobby and office level(s) were fine, normal shadows as expected. But on the assembly floor, nothing. The only light source that still produced shadows was a burning waste barrel by the stairs near the door to roof. All the static lights and more bizarrely, the moving spotlights cast no shadows. It looks really, really weird. Even my character and Dogmeat were shadow free. Seeing the spotlights moving and no shadows is really fecking wierd. I never had any issues in there, but in a hamfisted approach to patching I have them gone because current gen consoles can't produce them at reasonable FPS. Is it locked to 30fps on consoles, out of interest? If it is, then it's a travesty.
Anyway, if there isn't one already, I'm sure there soon will be a mod to reinstate the shadow flags in there for PC gamers. I want to say something like that would prob require the toolset, but there is already a mod that turns shadows on for pipboy and power armour helmet lights, so it may well be doable in FO4Edit.
I've been playing video games for years, people complain about screen taring, I'm convinced at a certain point people just make up shit to care about.
I apologize for being a surly bastard, but there is no tangible difference between 30-60 frames.
"I don't care so noone else should". Fine, if you don't care, cary on not caring, but for those that are able to play with all the bells and whistled turned on, it's a slap in the face for us. I don't want my bells and whistles taken away thank you very much. Besides, FO4 is pretty ugly, the shadows not only help immersion but they help disguise that.SaneAmongInsane said:but it's like I don't give a shit if the light source in one room is casting shadows or not. Hell, I'd doubt I've even noticed things producing shadows and I wouldn't be able to pick it out unless I saw them side by side.
And here is the crux: If you only console game, then you're not going to have FoV issues. For one you're sitting too far away for it to be an issue and you never have the option of adjustable FoV or much variance in it. But when you're used to sitting within half a meter of the screen and having 110 FoV, it being sliced down to 75 is helluva noticeable.SaneAmongInsane said:I'm a console guy, so I've played probably everything you have on consoles. But I remember with Sleeping Dogs or Watch Dogs seeing all these comparison videos of 30 vs 60. I'm telling you, I don't see it. I've never had problems with FoV either, go figure.
That could quite likely solve a lot of the issues, someone else mentioned shadows being cast under the map which obviously strains the GPU unnecessarily.sonicneedslovetoo said:I honestly wonder if the performance could just be improved by better occlusion culling, I know there was a mod like that for Skyrim that could seriously help out performance.
I have played it. A friend of mine did buy it, and of course I pestered him to let me try it as well. After 2 hours all I honestly saw was more of the same, with clunky and messy base building tacked on. I don't think it's a bad game, really. Just not worth my money to me. And I still think it was rushed. Not based on anything solid, but that's what it feels like to me.ninja51 said:Nope, no confirmation whatsoever given, nor can your opinion the game was rushed out be any sort of valid when you've never played the game. Its fucking great, buy it, its got a lot of problems, but isn't even close to skimpy on content, nor does it feel rushed out at all.
I have played it. A friend of mine did buy it, and of course I pestered him to let me try it as well. After 2 hours all I honestly saw was more of the same, with clunky and messy base building tacked on. I don't think it's a bad game, really. Just not worth my money to me. And I still think it was rushed. Not based on anything solid, but that's what it feels like to me.ninja51 said:Nope, no confirmation whatsoever given, nor can your opinion the game was rushed out be any sort of valid when you've never played the game. Its fucking great, buy it, its got a lot of problems, but isn't even close to skimpy on content, nor does it feel rushed out at all.
Umm, where does that post even mention going over 60 FPS?Gundam GP01 said:Do you even own a 144 Hz monitor?
If you dont, going above 60 will have literally no advantage at all.
This is part of the problem. The main problem is that low FoV causes "zoom in" effects, which is totally fine on Consoles as you are sitting some distance away and the zoom allows you to better make out details in front of you. If you sit close to your monitor it tends to cause nausea and headaches however, since you get the feeling that your character is constantly looking through a magnifying glass or binocular when walking around and it messes with your depth perception.KingsGambit said:The issue is one of how much you see of the world relative to the distance you are from the screen and is based on how much our eyes *actually* see.
30-60 fps can be easily seen when you are running at 60 and it dips. I noticed a HUGE difference after I went from the PS3 version of Dark Souls to the PC version (After installing DSfix obviously, which delimits the framerate and fixes performance issues).SaneAmongInsane said:-snip-