New Overwatch Hero Is a Response to Body-Type Diversity Criticism

[PainInTheAssInternet]

There's always something that will make any and all attempts to diversify wrong.

It could be a corporation that spends its entire time being a cold, calculating uncaring machine that everyone is more than happy to flog that now inexplicably needs to be defended from design by committee since now they're thinking about giving literally anyone else a chance to be included. Of course, there is no conceivable way that the company thought to include the character themselves. That just doesn't happen.

It could be that they are pandering to a crowd that obviously is not a part of gaming even though these voices tend to come from gaming forums. By giving them a character, they may be encouraged to tread on a hobby that is not and never will be theirs.

It could be that they aren't completely and utterly unique in every way, even though the same people espousing that criticism are the ones angry that someone different is being included.

It could be the fucking hairstyle of the character.

But, of course, absolutely no one is against diversity. It just coincidence that there's always something enabling us to completely disregard the character.

 

[Grampy_bone]

So "Body diversity" translates to "Make women look like men." More butch dykes in the game plz! Next up we will see demands to have effete, slender, girly-looking men, and the gender swap of fiction will be complete.

I've been saying for awhile, the end result of the 'gender equality' zeitgeist will be gender reversal. I feel like this is a solution guaranteed to upset almost everyone. Is there anyone, man or woman, who honestly feels this is an attractive character? Put aside your social activist mentality for a moment and really look at this situation, and think about what this means.

Under a supposedly pro-woman world view, how can any expression of female sexuality be considered bad?

 

[Mazinger-Z]

So, it's a token then?

I mean, it's not an original character, it's just playing off the whole "Buff Russian Super-soilder" trope.

The design philosophy isn't to bring anything to the game, but instead just "fill a gap in the spectrum".


Why are people happy about this again?

I mean, sure, it's not a terrible character, but, they could have done so much better here.

That's what happens when you force anything. You're going to get the minimum effort required to pass committee. You will not get emotional investment into building the character. You can tell when something is crafted with loving attention and when its just a check off the list of standard game development.

The missus giggled when she first saw her. And then totally lost it when she heard her voice.

 

[happyninja42]

Interesting, first glance of the character shot, and I thought it was a slightly effeminate guy who was a body builder.

As to her addition to the roster for purely "filling the equality gaps", meh, I couldn't really care less either way. Her addition because they are actively trying to be more diverse doesn't actually have any impact on the game, or the mechanics, or anything really. It's simply a character skin design. She could just as easily be a big beefy dude wielding that weapon, and considering Blizzard's male designs with big guns, that's pretty standard. So I don't care if she's in there.

To the common statement I'm seeing in this thread of "If she's just there to fill a gap in the gender roster, why bother?" My response is "Why not have her there?" She doesn't suddenly make the other characters less effective, or anything like that. Please explain one tangible way in which her being introduced into the game directly detracts from the quality of the gameplay/mechanics. If the answer is "there isn't any way she's detracting from the game" (which I suspect is the likely answer)...then who cares if she's in it or not?

If you don't like her as a character model, go play one of the other champions. I do it all the time in games like League, where I just simply don't like some champs, so I don't buy/play them. It's amazingly effective.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

The end result of this is a female character with a distinct body type. Which, regardless of how unoriginal and stereotypical the design actually is, should be a good thing.

It's hard to say what kind of design Blizzard would have arrived at if left to their own devices and never received any criticism. All we really know is what we have. Personally, while I think the intention may have been good hearted, and it's a step in a good direction, I think the end result of this character is pretty boring. A burly russian heavy weapons specialist, in a cartoony videogame? Ooookay.

And yet on the other hand, I kindof feel bad for Blizzard with being presented by this problem. It's an absolute lose-lose scenario, all they can really do is choose the course of action that nets them the least amount of damage. Appealing to some invisible diversity-quota and getting criticism for pandering and creating an unoriginal character seems like that would be the best course of action.

Whatever. The whole thing makes me roll my eyes and go "Meh." Now I just wonder what Blizzard will end up doing next.

 

[infinity_turtles]

Given the way some of the discussion of the design has been, I figured I'd point out that the characters appearance seems to be heavily based on one of Blizzard's 3D Character Artists. Tamara Bakhlycheva specifically, who's been around for awhile and has been known to do a decent amount of Cosplay. She also did work on the Sylvanas Ranger skin, which recently came under attack by a few people for being too sexy and a step-back compared to Zarya's announcement.

Spoiler: Tamara looking a bit like Zarya

Spoiler: Older Tamara cosplay

Captcha: dogs and cats living together. I'm sure if I stretched, this could be somehow relevant, but really I just wonder why cats and dogs living together is seen as so strange.

*edit* Appear to have screwed up the images. Fixing.

 

[Grahav]

Oh my God, did someone legitimately just say "SJW hair?"

That's fucking hilarious.

So, do Lilith and Maya have "SJW hair?"XD

Fucking SJW hair.

Uhh if the shoe fits...

Gearboxes story department basically is tumblr.

Actual tumblr or the sterotyped tumblr? Because there's a big difference.

I mean I think tumblr is literally what they use for their story department, its like the manatees for southpark.

You'll have to forgive me if I feel like that claim is a wee bit...unfounded. In other words, citation needed.

And the manatees were for Family Guy. They were on south park, but they were used to make fun of Family Guy

It was a typo, Gearbox, particularly Borderlands 2 and the Pre-Sequel decided to jam as many pop-culture references and "SJW" causes en lieu of writing an actual story.

You said that they literally used Tumblr as a storyboard. Is having pop culture references and whatever the hell people deem to be "SJW" narrative aspects (Is having a gay character SJW? I don't know because that term has lost all meaning and just means "person who I disagree with") literally using Tumblr as a storyboard? And even then I ask once again. Tumblr the way it actually is or Tumblr the way the internet has a tendency to stereotype it?

Have you played Borderlands 2? In a DLC you run down and kill a guy for calling a women a derogatory term, and at another point Lilith has a rants about being picked on for like "nerd culture" the whole thing was beyond painful. Have you played those games?

We killed a guy for being a sexist douchebag. And this is a problem how? I thought it was well established that all the characters in Borderlands 2 were psychopaths. They kill 95% of the people they come across. They kill Hyperion employees just doing their job. They kill a crystal creature that was just guarding the tomb of its friend. They kill a crazy person who just told them to shoot him in the face. They help a thirteen year old girl torture someone to death. Brick flat out says he kills his own men "because they're stupid" and he encourages the player to do the same. But killing a sexist guy is apparently crossing the line? Should sexist douchebags be given amnesty from bullets?

Also, that came out in a DLC that featured a lot about video games and online culture. In one area you get someone to rage quit by teabagging them. I don't see how pointing out the bullshit of fake gamer girls (which was alive and well at the time) makes someone an SJW. Especially when it was done in a way that made the main female character look like a jerk and made the muscular macho man out to be the sympathetic victim. Not very SJWish.

Also, you're dodging my questions. Are we talking about the actual Tumblr or the sterotyped Tumblr

The sexist part...

Is it a parody? Or a belief disguised as parody? Hmm...

It certainlly was art for giving the players different interpratations for the same situation.

Answer: Stereotyped tumblr. The same way there is anonymous and stereotyped anonymous (known simply as anonymous). There is a lot going on these places, but shit still stinks a flower field and cycadas still make a forest noisy.

 

[theNater]

Y'know, this thread is actually a pretty good argument for diversity in games. Apparently, there are a significant number of gamers who don't know what a well-muscled woman looks like.

Is there anyone, man or woman, who honestly feels this is an attractive character?

Yo! Posted, like, 10 hours ago:

I think Zarya is hot. I like a woman with some heft to her. Zarya is such a breath of fresh air compared to the half-clothed twigs that we see over and over and over. I'd much rather date her than Widowmaker.

 

[happyninja42]

Oh my God, did someone legitimately just say "SJW hair?"

That's fucking hilarious.

So, do Lilith and Maya have "SJW hair?"XD

Fucking SJW hair.

My bad. My bad. I should have said tumblr hair.

In comparison to the other characters is like a neon board on the top of her head.

And? I dunno, I guess I just don't find brightly colored hair on women all that amazing. I mean, I like it on them, a lot, I find it really refreshing to see the cheerful colors that some women do their hair up in. But having it be a sticking point on the character design? So what? There are plenty of women in the world with brightly colored hair, even more so in video games and anime. So yeah, I don't really see what the issue is with her having purple hair. *shrugs* I guess I've just been to so many raves over the years, that women with rainbow colored hair doesn't make me bat an eyelash about her as a person. It makes me check her out, because I find the look fascinating, but that's it.

 

[Silence]

I like how Blizzard deals with this.

"Someone wants something. Well, let's develop a new character for their demand. Don't change something about the old. Thank you for the input, keep it coming."

 

[Erttheking]

I like how Blizzard deals with this.

"Someone wants something. Well, let's develop a new character for their demand. Don't change something about the old. Thank you for the input, keep it coming."

Well the old characters are pretty good actually. It's just there's not a lot of variety to them.

 

[Grahav]

Oh my God, did someone legitimately just say "SJW hair?"

That's fucking hilarious.

So, do Lilith and Maya have "SJW hair?"XD

Fucking SJW hair.

My bad. My bad. I should have said tumblr hair.

In comparison to the other characters is like a neon board on the top of her head.

And? I dunno, I guess I just don't find brightly colored hair on women all that amazing. I mean, I like it on them, a lot, I find it really refreshing to see the cheerful colors that some women do their hair up in. But having it be a sticking point on the character design? So what? There are plenty of women in the world with brightly colored hair, even more so in video games and anime. So yeah, I don't really see what the issue is with her having purple hair. *shrugs* I guess I've just been to so many raves over the years, that women with rainbow colored hair doesn't make me bat an eyelash about her as a person. It makes me check her out, because I find the look fascinating, but that's it.

I also used to have nothing against the neon colors. But, well, a comparison: Hats are cool. Film noir hats are super cool, some people who use fedoras are cool but some are not and the mind has a way to accentuate the negative. I see a fedora I hear "m'lady".

The neon colors used to be very cool to me. But now I associate it with SJW and attention whoring. You may say that I am exagerating but look, the character done "for diversity" (a constant SJW nag) has that hair as a distinction.

 

[Lavok]

Ambrosia, Unreal Tournament 2004

Lucy, Quake 3 Arena 1999

MEH

 

[Teepop]

I never made out that it is only female behaviour. Remember this topic is about female characters. The news story specifically mentions it. That is why I was referring to female players.

I am sure male players prefer traditional/stereotypical portrayals of attractiveness too. I talked about female characters because *that is what the news story was about*. That's the topic we are discussing.

However I believe that males have slightly different ideas of what constitutes attractive or cool in that a big muscle-bound orc is considered as attractive as a muscle-bound human male even though the former is "ugly". I mean I'm guessing here but I think males will favour traditionally desirable male traits such as strength, dominance, power, agility or general badassery over pure "beauty". This will lead to some deviation from the females choices.

Also in my experience the casual guilds have a higher percentage of female players than the hardcore raiding guilds so racial perks probably have more sway over male race choices. This no doubt leads to a more even racial choice spread for males.

I'd expect males to favour Human/NE/Belf too, but I'd expect female racial choices to be massively more skewed in favour of those races versus males.

E.g. you mention 38% of all players, I bet you for females it is close to double that. As I say I bet that Humans, NE, Belf and Draenai (I forgot them) account for almost all female player choices and those would be followed by Gnomes and Dwarves/Pandas.

I bet Undead for example are fairly well represented by males but extremely rare choices for female players.

Anyway there is no point debating over guesses and assumptions, I am calling on Blizzard to back up their statement by publishing the statistics that they most definitely hold.

At any time they can prove that there is genuine demand for diversity and that they are not just trying to get cheap headlines/publicity by exploiting the conflict between these two tiny but vocal pressure groups. My opinion is that they are exploiting (or being bullied by) the publicity over these pressure groups and that their own figures for female players categorically conflicts with their statement.

Blizzard can disprove my assertion any sweet time they like....

Why the hell do you even care? No seriously?

Even if you were right that most players want to play as female characters who meet some arbitrary standard of physical attractiveness (and I don't buy it until you can provide evidence to back up that assertion), exactly how does giving players more options interfere with that? Want to make a stereotypical female game character with a non-existent waist and huge tits and ass in a game like WoW? This isn't stopping you so there's no actual problem there. Want to play as such a character in the very game being discussed in this thread? Well there's no shortage there either.

It's rare that people get this worked up over something that literally doesn't impact the thing they say most people want so my only conclusion is that you feel somehow slighted or threatened by this in some way. Otherwise such a non-issue wouldn't bother you since it has no real impact on the games you play. And it's frankly quite sad that you care so much about things not changing.

1, I care because I would not be happy if people were self appointing themselves as my representative without my consent and misrepresenting my views and those of my friends and fellow players in the press. By the way I am under no obligation to explain why I do or do not care. My motives do not make my challenge of Blizzards statement any more or less valid. They made a statement and should be prepared to support it regardless of why it is being queried. If they can't support a statement they shouldn't make it. That said I have no objections to explaining why I care and have done so above out of courtesy.

2, It goes without saying that anyone posting on a topic will naturally "care" about it. Otherwise they would be down the pub instead! Indeed given the flustered tone of your post it appears that you care about it too. So we both care about it.

3, Blizzard made an assertion. This entire news story was about Blizzards assertion in relation to what they claim players want. I have called them out on that assertion and the onus is on them to back it up. They made a claim, they hold the statistics to prove the claim. Rather than being rude and saying "you are wrong end of story" I have instead tried to politely explain why I feel the need to query their statement and ask for the evidence. That does not shift the onus on to me to disprove their claim. The onus is still on them. I just did the courtesy of explaining why I was making the query. I was under no obligation to do so.

4, Please don't use strawmen fallacies. I specifically stated that I have no issue with having more options so please don't misrepresent my statements and attempt to falsely imply otherwise. Please read my posts properly instead of skimming over them and automatically assuming that I am your ideological enemy. I am not. I have no objection to seeing more choice. I am specifically calling out Blizzard on a statement that they made in which I believe they misrepresented their player base for cheap publicity. I am not having a discussion/argument with you, Blizzard or anyone about whether more choice is a good thing. It is obviously a "good thing"

I am only discussing the accuracy of Blizzards assertion that players have been demanding diversity in body types when I believe that Blizzards own internal statistics prove that their players overwhelmingly favour classic depictions of beauty/attractiveness. They have the figures....they can publish them any time to support their statement. In fact it would have added more strength to their statement if they had listed the statistics at the time.

E.g. "Our players, especially female players have been demanding more diversity in body types. This is why when given a choice in games like WoW our statistics show a nice even spread across all the races".

I think I know why they didn't say that and if we are being honest now, I think YOU know why too - because an overwhelming majority of their female player base cluster around a handful of classes that depict stereotypical depictions of beauty and that barely anyone has been requesting diversity away from those depictions.

Rather players would like more options within the sphere of traditional beauty as opposed to more options deviating into what is generally perceived to be less beautiful.

 

[Ukomba]

I don't see how putting in a body type just so you can say you have the body type is any different than adding a token black friend. Speaking of which, where's their token black friend?

Now that this can of worms has been opened, I'm wondering how many new characters they'll have to add to the roster in a mad attempt to make everyone happy. I don't see any albinos in the game, why are albinos always left out in the cold? Can we have a Brony character? I want an Inuit with ice powers. Defiantly need a Cherokee, but don't make them look too native american because that would be racist. I'll be counting the number of feathers, and if it goes over my arbitrary 'acceptable' number I'll hashtag you soooooo hard.

 

[m19]

Character is fine. However lets now hear complains that this is an unrealistic depiction of the female body like we hear about sexy characters. Most women can't get anywhere close to that without steroids.

 

[The Wooster]

Cool character design. Good job, Blizzard. And now, because it seems like this topic requires it. Some angry typing.

ARHGHALBLARGH BLARGBAHRBLAGH SJKWS ABWLKGHABLAGH! AHRGHLAGHFS? AHRLGHALGHABLAGRHGLGHARGHKOTSAJHAKU LAHGFJL!

Cartoon characters aren't the same as real people. I'm pretty sure most people look to real life human beings as role models, not a collection of pixels on a screen. Looking to cartoon fantasy characters to "feel represented", that's like scraping the bottom of the barrel, must be pretty depressing.

Yeah, it is somewhat depressing that the only fat guy with agency who isn't a bandit, thug, Peter Griffin or some such I can think of is Coop from Megas XLR. Though that's to be expected, fat people are bad and should feel bad so they can become better, normal people.

Try Bob from Tekken. He's not even a joke character like Rufus Street Fighter. He's just a kung fu badass who happens to be fat.

 

[Garlador]

Female players demanding more diversity? How DARE these women request more diversity in games! How dare they speak for everyone! Not EVERYONE wants big, large, strong women in games! What about all those many adolescent men out there who like sexy women with slim bodies, as God made them? Where will they ever turn to get that fix now? BLIZZARD is depriving them of this, and it's all the fault of those women and SJWs out there pretending they care about this issue and making the industry worse for us all!

BLIZZARD has proven they have no integrity. How can you, when you just give players the things they ask for rather than sticking to your guns, plugging your ears, and not listening to any feedback whatsoever? Games are artistic visions that are definitely not made for other players to enjoy, or at least not players that aren't young men. It's just frustrating to see a company with a reputation like BLIZZARD's openly admitting that they made a decision based on player feedback and girl gamers requesting diversity. They should never have listened and done whatever they wanted to do. That's their creative right! I mean, sure, you make the industry more diverse, flavorful, and inclusive, but at WHAT COST? ... apart from financial, because expanding their userbase might mean more people give the game a shot.

I mean, look at this disgusting excuse for a character:

Ugh, it makes me want to puke. Look at that unrealistic body, those oversized muscles, those broad shoulders... Show me a woman who actually looks like that. Women are delicate, fragile creatures, and you'll never find examples of strong women like in real life like this:

And she's a tough Russian girl? How stereotypical! Don't we have enough of those already? I mean, good grief, I can name practically.... one... one single example of a strong Russian girl in video games (as an entirely optional voice for The Boss in Saints Row, and only if you customize the character to be big and strong). This is just yet another example of a strong, muscular Russian girl stereotype that is infecting videogames. How unoriginal.

This is the equivalent of a token character, like a black best friend in movies. As we all are aware, it is better to pretend that these type of people DON'T EXIST than to even attempt to diversify gaming. Sure, everyone has to start somewhere, but wouldn't it be much better to not start AT ALL? It's as Peter Lefleur said in Dodgeball, "I found that if you have a goal, you might not reach it. But if you don't have one, then you are never disappointed". Just like how Marvel created token black characters that became great characters later on, we should do the total opposite and not accept ANY attempts to be more inclusive to others.

This is a loss for gaming. I can't believe BLIZZARD is forcing me to buy this game and play as this character. Even if I don't want to play as her, I'll still have to see her in the game when someone else DOES want to play as her. And if I don't want to play the game in the first place, I'll still have to skim gaming sites talking about her, forcing me to acknowledge she exists and that, by BLIZZARD's stupid logic, they believe women come in more shapes and sizes than "runway model".

I don't see how anybody could find her attractive, and we know that attractive women are the only women worth playing as anyway. Who could possibly find her appealing? My singular, insular, narrow-minded sensibilities reject anything outside of the typical portrayals, and I can't believe BLIZZARD wouldn't just create a game for me and me alone. I'm outraged, beyond furious, and totally baffled that they would do this, listen to women and others, and alter their perfect, infallible vision to make other people happy. How can I be happy if people that aren't me are happy? What do you mean I should be happy for them?

I think I've said my piece. We can all agree that this is a terrible decision that might impact the future of the industry, causing developers to listen to women and minorities for a change, and this disease might spread to other developers. We're facing the very real crisis of staring at store shelves packed with great games staring strong women, and that's a truly scary thought.

After all, I spoke to a woman once and she said this character is silly and stupid, which affirms that's how all women should feel about this. BLIZZARD is making a huge mistake. Look at this. This is the cost of gaming's integrity. THIS is what happens when women, SJWs, and minorities start getting their way. This is the face of it.

Isn't it hideous?

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

The real question is: will they make her OP right out of the box, or will they wait until almost no one chooses to use her?

 

[Bat Vader]

So "Body diversity" translates to "Make women look like men." More butch dykes in the game plz! Next up we will see demands to have effete, slender, girly-looking men, and the gender swap of fiction will be complete.

I've been saying for awhile, the end result of the 'gender equality' zeitgeist will be gender reversal. I feel like this is a solution guaranteed to upset almost everyone. Is there anyone, man or woman, who honestly feels this is an attractive character? Put aside your social activist mentality for a moment and really look at this situation, and think about what this means.

Under a supposedly pro-woman world view, how can any expression of female sexuality be considered bad?

I think she is an attractive character. I have always liked tall and strong women.