New Overwatch Hero Is a Response to Body-Type Diversity Criticism

theNater

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kenu12345 said:
I don't really have a problem with the design or the inclusion of the character (I actually think she looks pretty cool), but my only grief with this story is the people complaining bout diversity when all of the previous characters had completly different body types. I think this may explain it a bit more
http://thespectacularspider-girl.tumblr.com/post/113010314274/female-portrayals-in-video-games
My main problem with that article is the assumption that what she finds sexy is what everybody finds sexy. That women can't be sexy while fully dressed. That anyone who doesn't want the women she likes is anti-sex. Well, I'll probably be mocked for saying this, but I think Zarya is hot. I like a woman with some heft to her. Zarya is such a breath of fresh air compared to the half-clothed twigs that we see over and over and over. I'd much rather date her than Widowmaker. But when I cheer for the addition of someone I think is sexy, it must be because I hate sex.

My secondary problem is that she lists four male body types when there are five: thin, dwarf, heroic, large, gorilla.
 

Tsun Tzu

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Haerthan said:
If you were I apologize. Sarcasm is really hard to detect, especially when I am tired. But I still believe the idea of "appropriating a culture" (pffft remind me to really fucking slap the person that came up with it, most likely a Tumblerite idiot who hasnt actually read proper feminist books).
No worries.

That was the knife I was trying to twist ya know, 'cultural appropriation' being a part of the tumblr malarkey and all.

ki11joyace said:
Is he saying Gamergate is "dudebros?" How long do you think it will be before he realizes Escapist has been hiring pro-GG writers? Including a female pro-GG writer. kek.
I...don't know, actually.

I was led to believe we were all neckbearded virgins. Dudebros are a whole other denomination of gamer-cretin. Or at least I don't generally conflate the two. o_O
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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There are a lot of really sad, angry people here.

Lighten up. It's just one character for freak's sake.

No wonder this site is going down the toilet rapidly.
 

Haerthan

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ki11joyace said:
LostGryphon said:
Haerthan said:
But you are all for the status quo. Have fun with it. Cause I sure as hell won't. Also a little reminder what the status quo looks like : Gamergate. (Come at me brodudes. I am ready).
You seem to have some sort of axe to grind here, muh good sir. Perhaps step away for a bit?

Get some tea with a bit of chamomile/honey?
Perhaps a nice crêpe?
Is he saying Gamergate is "dudebros?" How long do you think it will be before he realizes Escapist has been hiring pro-GG writers? Including a female pro-GG writer. kek.
I have seen the news a long time ago mate. Which is why if you looked at my posting history you would have seen that I am contemplating LEAVING. But scrolling up a bit is too hard isnt it? And no "dudebros" aren't GG. GG is nothing more than 2k people at the most. And bleeding people considering that they have started attacking some of the few women that still stood up for them. It is the worst of the gaming community and I still wonder why Archon let them here, when FUCKING 4CHAN kicked them out.

Also drop the kek, this isnt WoW or Blizzard forums.
 

ki11joyace

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LostGryphon said:
ki11joyace said:
Is he saying Gamergate is "dudebros?" How long do you think it will be before he realizes Escapist has been hiring pro-GG writers? Including a female pro-GG writer. kek.
I...don't know, actually.

I was led to believe we were all neckbearded virgins. Dudebros are a whole other denomination of gamer-cretin. Or at least I don't generally conflate the two. o_O
Well KiA just hit 30k. So I guess we're the largest Dudebro-Virgin Alliance the internet has ever seen.
 

Raesvelg

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You know, if Blizzard had just posted concept art, I probably would have found it easier to believe that the character was made in response to public pressure for a more diverse range of body types in female characters.

As it is, what with full gameplay video and all... Given the turnaround time on these kinds of decision in corporate culture, coupled with my natural skepticism and suspicious nature, I wouldn't be at all surprised this character was in development before all the kerfuffle over the first Overwatch trailer, and that Blizzard might well have decided to save the reveal for an opportune moment such as this so that they actively get credit for diversity.

If so, kudos to Blizzard.
 

Vault101

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LostGryphon said:
yeah? Tumblr's user base has a lot of cross-over with people who like alternative styles (which surprises no one), much like videogame sites like this have a large metal fan use base (which surprises no one)

"gamers" aren't appropriating metal...all these things are just part of a person and their identity

as for pandering people seem to get their panties in a twist whenever their "assumed norm" is challenged

Shamanic Rhythm said:
There are a lot of really sad, angry people here.

Lighten up. It's just one character for freak's sake.

No wonder this site is going down the toilet rapidly.
BUT THIS CHARACHTER DID NOT COME ABOUT IN AN EFFICALY WAY

[B/]EFFICAAAAALL!![/B]

*cough* sorry
 

Redryhno

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Haerthan said:
Ok one thing we gotta clarify here: BLIZZARD SAID IT WANTED TO BE DIVERSE AND THAT IT WAS OPEN TO CRITICISM. They received said criticism and acted on it. Is it that fucking hard to get that? Seriously? Christ the schooling system outside of Europe and Far East Asia seems to be fucking failing if reading comprehension isn't taught anymore.

Also last I checked the criticism sent to Blizzard was pretty much respectful. Oh and criticizing after the Alpha? After most of the development is more or less done? Yea good job buddy. You criticize when it is in development so that the BS and bugs don't make it Anthe final product. That is how criticism works. Oh yea the bodies are diverse FOR THE MALES. OTherwise for the women it was the same thin supermodel with exxagerated hips. So yea people criticized it, Blizzard listened.

And congratulations: you don't like some of the designs. Except for Pharah, who has the body type of a supermodel, except in armour. Way to prove your not being pandered to buddy, since you still like some of the designs. But when people criticize other people for better designs : OH SJWs aren't happy. Oh they will take a mile if you give them a finger. And on and on and on. Guess what buddy. Nobody is coming to take away your games (except maybe ISIS/ISIL?IS), nobody is condemning you for playing videogames (but for HARASSMENT, if you do that shit) and gaming is now mainstream, where the industry is making BILLIONS. The "ideological crusade" is nothing more then other people asking for better representation, instead of just playing the same "grizzled white male who gargles rocks".

And I am seriously tired of being respectful. The Escapist is going down the shitter ever since GG started, Archon is hiring people who at best wouldn't have a job in the real world (gaming journalism, what a joke, always has been always will be) and most of the talent that kept me here is gone. And Yahtzee, well you know how it is, too much of a good thing can spoil. Although the Escapist done goofed when they cancelled the Rhymedown and Uncivil War. Seriously their biggest moneymakers collaborated and made awesome shit.
Dude, you seriously have an axe to grind for some reason, who is the one using all-caps and complaining about GG in here, a thread made about a character that has nothing to do with a consumer revolt/movement/hategroup/whateveryouhavetocallitthisweek?

Not everyone that talks out against this kind of stuff has anything to do with GG, so chill and realize that not everyone that has a differing opinion to your own is some kind of ulta-conservative-archaic-writings-subscriber dudebro that wants to keep women in caves fit with a kitchen and everything else it takes to make sandwiches. Honestly, people complain that it's always GG bringing GG into random topics, and not the people that don't like it.

And seriously, they said they were open to criticism, not the plethora of hate they got when they released these things from twitter, tumblr, and even here. And that's the majority of what I saw as masquerading as "criticism", complaining, whining, and general all around negativity without any positivity or solutions.

Now, onto the actual important parts of discussion in your post. Yeah, the U.S. public schooling system has alot of crap, and university is way too highly valued and pushed, and teachers are increasingly more worried about test scores that were heavily pushed by many liberal institutions than teaching kids.

Have you ever watched a game like this come from development into playability? Because the way you're explaining these things really seems to suggest you haven't. LoL is continually pumping out new characters(Dota porting and updating) that impact the game in different ways and with different body designs with - for the most part - gorgeous splashes and mostly unique models in-game. Overwatch is going to be the same way from my understanding, it will never officially come out until Blizzard either gets bored and moves on or goes under and the game servers go offline. Characters will continue to come out, but people threw fits over this junk before it even started and that's what I have a problem with.

And seriously, you clipped out the part of my post explaining exactly why I liked Pharah for that gotcha moment, but here's why I like Pharah again, it has nothing to do with her body-type, and all about dat armor you so casually toss aside. She's obviously Gatchaman-inspired, and I like that.

 

Tsun Tzu

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Vault101 said:
LostGryphon said:
yeah? Tumblr's user base has a lot of cross-over with people who like alternative styles (which surprises no one), much like videogame sites like this have a large metal fan use base (which surprises no one)

"gamers" aren't appropriating metal...all these things are just part of a person and their identity

as for pandering people seem to get their panties in a twist whenever their "assumed norm" is challenged
I'm just going to start putting notes on all my sarcastic (what can very charitably be called) quips. Sentences tacked on intentionally to emphasize the ridiculousness don't seem to be doing it.

I don't think they're actually 'appropriating' the punk culture. It was a jab at their type of tumblrite.

And...wait, but it IS still pandering. Ya do recognize that, right? :/ People get their undies bunched at just about everything nowadays (read: Since time began!) and the loudest voices in that regard are usually the sorta folks I'm referencing.

Same goes for their mirror images (conservative demagogues/trolls/misogynerds/etc.) in other cultures.
 

runic knight

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For fuck's sake, why is it that I was having a more reasonable conversation on twitter then some of what I see here?

Anyways though, expanded thoughts on the character. I still like the character, as I put it elsewhere, I think that even if it is pandering (and lets be honest, between the character design and the unabashed "We did good, see!" attitude of the marketing, it can be described as nothing less) it is fine since they are pandering to a lot of different audience expectations now, adding a nice amount of variety to the roster as they go along.

I would have to say the biggest reason why I like this sort of thing but called shenanigans when Marvel was doing it was because Blizzard is adding to their property where marvel was replacing one targeted audience expectation with another. "Variety" isn't variety when it comes at the expense of other options, such as replacing an existing character or entire team with a different one for the freak-show shock and awe. But this character is just one in a growing series, so cool on them to add the character, if people don't like them, no need to use them, they will probably make one you do like well enough(if the game interests you anyways).

I have heard people say the other character they released, the gunslinger, got the shit end of the stick for being released at the same time and being less interesting a character, and I can see where that comes from, but I think that is more complaint with how the characters were unequally marketed (see: pandering) and less the fault of the characters themselves there.

For the individual using the thread to rant about gamergate though (and "male gamers" and various strawmen arguments and escapist bashing and whatever else), stop. Just stop. We have a nice little thread for that sort of thing already and I know you'd be very welcome to go on a rant like that there. So take the chip on your shoulder there if you got to, but please try to keep the thread at least a little more on topic.
 

Vault101

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LostGryphon said:
And...wait, but it IS still pandering. Ya do recognize that, right? :/ People get their undies bunched at just about everything nowadays (read: Since time began!) and the loudest voices in that regard are usually the sorta folks I'm referencing.
.
if were assuming in this context "Pander" isn't a bad thing then sure....although generally its used to describe appealing to "bad" aspects of its audience

and contrary to what everyone's saying pink hair is not the devil
 

TheRealCJ

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LostGryphon said:
Well, it's obvious pandering.

I mean, look at the blatant tumblr hair cut, and that's not even mentioning Blizzard's "we're trying reeeeally hard u guise" comments.

But...so what if it's pandering? Everybody deserves to be pandered to, imo. So, the hell with it, she offers variety and doesn't 'replace' the other characters.

No problems here. :D
Except her hair and face were based on a Blizzard employee.
 

Arawn

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Did I just see the gunslinger get auto headshots on 3 characters? Isn't that just abit OP? I guess in the time for him take aim (lock on) someone can put a shot between his eyes first.
 

Tsun Tzu

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TheRealCJ said:
Except her hair and face were based on a Blizzard employee.
Oh? Huh, all right. Complaint withdrawn.

Unless, of course, they picked her for 'ascension' due to her appearance, which fits quite well with that archetype.

Hmmmmmm. >.>

Benefit of the doubt though, Blizzard.
 

josemlopes

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Mister K said:
BeerTent said:
Mister K said:
She is still sexy though, in a body-builder kind-of way. And she has a pretty face. How about making fat, not pretty female character?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we are just never going to see a non-pretty female character [http://i.ytimg.com/vi/s5rgkX5y4RA/maxresdefault.jpg] in this industry. I mean, Really now. [http://www.cheatcc.com/imagesfeatures/top10mostterrifyingvideogamecharacters_10.jpg]

:p

On a side note, I dunno, I don't really see a problem with her. It'd be a better gesture if she wasn't a response, but other than that, the fans asked, Blizzard listened. Just balance her proper, because sweet Jesus she looks powerful in that vid. Then again, she does focus primarily on weapons I prefer to use.
I won't agree with you on Witch, because it is common knowledge that female enemies/antagonists are allowed to be not attractive, but yeah, I forgot about Helga (is that her name?)

Oh, and I too don't have problems with her. I don't really like pink hair, but otherwise I like everything about her. But I DO have a problem with rule "female character can be either pretty or on heavier side of weight". The example you've provided me with only serves to confirm my theory. I mean, chubby ladies can be pretty, you know. Oooooh, by the freakin way, I think the same situation is with male characters. Hmm...
Well, because of the graphics she doesnt come off looking very atractive but the fat girl from Fable 2 was supposed to be



More on-topic, I dont think they should have said what basicly means "People are talking that they want X so we will give them X regardless if it makes sense for us", in this case I do believe that it does, it isnt even an original concept, its the big stronk russian woman, but as it was stated (especially in the title of this article) it makes it seem that its there entirely because of the consistent whinning of diversity and nothing more, as if it was something that had to be ticked in a checklist.
 

Phasmal

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We've literally only gotten something good out of this and there are still people complaining about `fuckin' SJW's`.

Sorry that a new character got made, people, that must be so hard on you to have gained something new and lost nothing.

Anyway, I said as much in the other thread- she looks cool, can't wait to play her. Though I'll probably be playing Mercy seeing as I mainly play medic in TF2.

EDIT: Also, `culture war`? Seriously?!
 

wAriot

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The only thing I dislike of her is the hair, but that's because I dislike all dyed hair in general and neon-colored hair in particular.
Other than that she looks good. Not particularly interesting though, but that can be said for most of the characters in the game.
 

Notshauna

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wAriot said:
The only thing I dislike of her is the hair, but that's because I dislike all dyed hair in general and neon-colored hair in particular.
Other than that she looks good. Not particularly interesting though, but that can be said for most of the characters in the game.
See, I tend to have a weakness to women in armor, with tattoos, shortish neon hair, body builder types. The only thing she's missing is piercings and she'd a diagram of attractiveness (though in reality I wouldn't be that attracted to said woman due to it checking too many boxes [I'm weird I know]).

But, beyond that I think that it's good to have a greater deal of body diversity than I expected, I expected it to go from Tracer to Widowmaker to Pharah.
 

Therumancer

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Paradoxrifts said:
Zhukov said:
B-b-b-but the artistic vision!

Won't somebody please think of the artistic visions being violated by all this diversity?
True artistic vision and creative freedom is the first casualty of a culture war.

Right now we are at the stage of the conflict where each side has dug their trenches and written out a checklist of what they do and don't find acceptable. They then go about trying to destroy, ruin or sling shit at anything that doesn't fit within their critera of what is to be considered acceptable in terms of artistic and creative expression.

Design via checklist, whether that checklist was created by social justice advocates or a marketing team targeting specific demographics is artistically bankrupt. What annoys me about this entire situation is how many dishonest participates claim to be on the side of the artist, but are infact are either trying to preserve the old status quo or establish a new status quo on top of the ashes of the old.

Both of these positions are anti-art positions
Pretty much my thoughts. The way this sounds to me is that Blizzard Corporate is giving the marching orders and decided how they wanted this game to look, and the artists are simply working within the parameters. Interestingly it will remain to be seen whether this attempt to cater to the politically correct crowd will work in their favor or not. People cheering for something because of a political point does not mean they are going to come out to financially support it, especially not in the long-term way Blizzard probably wants for it's IPs.

To be honest when it comes to heroic fantasy women gravitate towards physical ideals themselves, you'll notice when women create characters in fiction, especially for a largely female audience, they tend to be VERY attractive even if they don't realize it or believe they are. This ranges from professional fiction to the classic "Mary Sue" amateur fiction, the term itself being coined in part because of the too-perfect female characters girls tend to create.

Time will tell, but at the end of the day it seems girls gravitate towards the eye candy as much as guys do, and as much as many from both genders might applaud this academically, at the end of the day your typical guy who plays a female character so he doesn't have to look at man-butt for hours on end (aestetic appreciation of one's character) or a girl who wants a pretty avatar, might not exactly be wanting to invest in this character, especially if part of the game winds up revolving around playing dress up with it in one way or another.

If someone did create that fat, unattractive, female avatar, one that isn't being exaggerated for laughs (undermining the whole thing) that some people seemingly want, I don't think it would be all that successful financially since at the privacy of their keyboards I doubt even people praising it will open their wallets to actually play it.