New Overwatch Hero Is a Response to Body-Type Diversity Criticism

[Garlador]

Diversity for the sake of diversity ... don't think that has ever made any work of art better.

I'll just chip in and say that, as someone who makes comics, diversifying my characters and stories, just for the sake of diversity, has greatly benefited my comics with a wider repertoire of stories, characters, and genres to dabble in. And I did it just to make things diverse and fresh for myself and readers. It benefited everyone.

 

[The Wooster]

Diversity for the sake of diversity ... don't think that has ever made any work of art better.

I'll just chip in and say that, as someone who makes comics, diversifying my characters and stories, just for the sake of diversity, has greatly benefited my comics with a wider repertoire of stories, characters, and genres to dabble in. And I did it just to make things diverse and fresh for myself and readers. It benefited everyone.

Ditto. Pushing myself to try new characters rather than sticking within my comfort zone has done a lot to improve my writing.

 

[deadish]

Diversity for the sake of diversity ... don't think that has ever made any work of art better.

I'll just chip in and say that, as someone who makes comics, diversifying my characters and stories, just for the sake of diversity, has greatly benefited my comics with a wider repertoire of stories, characters, and genres to dabble in. And I did it just to make things diverse and fresh for myself and readers. It benefited everyone.

I meant "PC diversity".

You should write whatever you want, use whatever characters you want, to get your story across.

Adding diversity just to meet some arbitrary quota of whatever minority group, rarely ends well.

 

[deadish]

Did something happen to Widowmaker while I wasn't looking?

No see, they're pandering to someone else for a change, and that's unacceptable.

Blizzard should only pander to the audience if it's their normal audience, not these fake gamers who've been playing for years and years.

Hey, I never said it was *always* bad to pander - in certain cases it can act as a constraint on freedom of expression. They are a for profit company. Whatever brings in the greens.

Although ... whether it will actually bring in more money ... We will have to wait and see I suppose.

When you pandering to one audience it frequently means NOT pandering to another, as taste can be mutually exclusive, in the worst case you can even end up alienating a market segment. e.g. Chick flicks that men are frequently dragged against their will to watch.

 

[inmunitas]

So they have gone from pandering to teenage boys to pandering to PC SJWs ... heh.

Whatever floats their boat (or to be blunt, makes them more money).

Personally I don't believe art of any kind (including video games) should be held to any kind of "standard" nor need the approval of "moral guardians".

Did something happen to Widowmaker while I wasn't looking?

Yes, because "sexy" is "evil" and only the most self-hating of women could actually prefer playing as a "sexy" female character. No no any "sexy" female character must be targeting teenage boys because reasons and stuff.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

I understand that variety even in visual character design is a good thing but isn't this character just a lazy archetype? "Buff Female Russian Bodybuilder"?

Every other female character so far has had more interesting design. Probably in terms of abilities too.

So this is nice but it would be nicer if they weren't so blatantly filling in a hole in the spectrum. The idea is that good character design should be reflected in games in a variety of different appearances, not that this variety is in and of itself a good thing (though it is).

Her abilities don't even seem to go well with the theme.The basic attack immediately made me think "what does that have to do with anything?" Just seems like they lazily threw something together.

 

[inmunitas]

I understand that variety even in visual character design is a good thing but isn't this character just a lazy archetype? "Buff Female Russian Bodybuilder"?

Every other female character so far has had more interesting design. Probably in terms of abilities too.

So this is nice but it would be nicer if they weren't so blatantly filling in a hole in the spectrum. The idea is that good character design should be reflected in games in a variety of different appearances, not that this variety is in and of itself a good thing (though it is).

Her abilities don't even seem to go well with the theme.The basic attack immediately made me think "what does that have to do with anything?" Just seems like they lazily threw something together.

Simply asking for a bit more variety into the visual design of characters is too much like down to earth common sense. But no, political agendas just have to be shoehorned into it for some reason, can't even have a simple song contest these days without it being turned into politics.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Well, it makes you sound like an assblasted idiot, just letting you know.
As far as the character is concerned, I get the bodybuilding thing, but that with the dyed hair makes her look like she was designed to appeal to a very specific demographic that seems to do nothing but whine loudly about non issues.

As opposed to a different very specific demographic currently whining about 1 character in 14 like it's not a non-issue?

 

[Zhukov]

Well, it makes you sound like an assblasted idiot, just letting you know.
As far as the character is concerned, I get the bodybuilding thing, but that with the dyed hair makes her look like she was designed to appeal to a very specific demographic that seems to do nothing but whine loudly about non issues.

Are you aware that the character's appearance is loosely based on a Blizzard employee? Her name is Tamara Bakhlycheva.

Yes, including the pink hair [http://www.blizzcn.com/upimg/allimg/120823/1423480.jpg].

But don't let that stop you from ranting on about specific demographics.

 

[Erttheking]

I understand that variety even in visual character design is a good thing but isn't this character just a lazy archetype? "Buff Female Russian Bodybuilder"?

Every other female character so far has had more interesting design. Probably in terms of abilities too.

So this is nice but it would be nicer if they weren't so blatantly filling in a hole in the spectrum. The idea is that good character design should be reflected in games in a variety of different appearances, not that this variety is in and of itself a good thing (though it is).

Her abilities don't even seem to go well with the theme.The basic attack immediately made me think "what does that have to do with anything?" Just seems like they lazily threw something together.

No more of a lazy archetype than sexy woman in skin tight suit is.

Also, it is really an archtype? Can you give me an example of some female Russian bodybuilders in recent games?

 

[theNater]

Yes, because "sexy" is "evil" and only the most self-hating of women could actually prefer playing as a "sexy" female character.

I know you're just trying to help, but this reads like you trying to tell other people what it is and isn't okay to like. That's not cool.

Speaking of trying to help, I notice you still haven't provided details about that British Northerner you want. I'm sure this is due to trying to polish up your ideas, because you're obviously in these threads in an attempt to make Overwatch the best game it can be and not just to complain about people who aren't you getting something that they like. Do you have some idea when you're likely to post that? I'd hate to miss it.

 

[Lilani]

Jesus we're still talking about this?

Oh no, guys! It turns out basically anything that makes it into a AAA game has been rigorously designed and discussed as to who it appeals to and where it falls on the diversity spectrum, INCLUDING the original lineup for this game! Which means every character in this game has had its demographics hashed out and the only difference is when they came out! The HORROR! GAMES ARE RUINED!

 

[inmunitas]

Yes, because "sexy" is "evil" and only the most self-hating of women could actually prefer playing as a "sexy" female character.

I know you're just trying to help, but this reads like you trying to tell other people what it is and isn't okay to like. That's not cool.

Speaking of trying to help, I notice you still haven't provided details about that British Northerner you want. I'm sure this is due to trying to polish up your ideas, because you're obviously in these threads in an attempt to make Overwatch the best game it can be and not just to complain about people who aren't you getting something that they like. Do you have some idea when you're likely to post that? I'd hate to miss it.

I'm just trying to raise points that some people clearly haven't considered, you have people claiming they're all for character body-type diversity, but then go criticise other characters solely based on that characters body-type. Or claim they're all for diversity then dismiss a suggestion such as character accent diversity because then it's some how "silly" and "not everyone is like that".

 

[RolandOfGilead]

Finally they put some muscles on the girl instead of toothpick arms, still would have been nice if they were a bit in between hulked out and toothpicks, ( like real girl arms) but at least she has muscles at all.

Real girl arms are bleh, toothpick arms are only marginally better, well-toned arms are the best, muscly second best.

 

[theNater]

I'm just trying to raise points that some people clearly haven't considered, you have people claiming they're all character body-type diversity, but then go criticise other characters solely based on that characters body-type.

Criticizing a character design is not the same as saying that character shouldn't be included. Diversity necessarily means including things that are designed to appeal to people who aren't me, and that's fine.

It's also worth noting that my main criticism of Widowmaker is that the basic concept actually gets done a lot, as opposed to Zarya's. Despite the occasional claim that Zarya is a a stereotype, people are having a hard time finding many examples of characters like her in games. When it comes to diversity in games overall, Zarya is the more useful character.

Or claim they're all for diversity then dismiss a suggestion such as character accent diversity because then it's some how "silly" and "not everyone is like that".

You're using quotes there, but I don't remember anybody saying either of those things.

 

[inmunitas]

I'm just trying to raise points that some people clearly haven't considered, you have people claiming they're all character body-type diversity, but then go criticise other characters solely based on that characters body-type.

Criticizing a character design is not the same as saying that character shouldn't be included. Diversity necessarily means including things that are designed to appeal to people who aren't me, and that's fine.

It's also worth noting that my main criticism of Widowmaker is that the basic concept actually gets done a lot, as opposed to Zarya's. Despite the occasional claim that Zarya is a a stereotype, people are having a hard time finding many examples of characters like her in games. When it comes to diversity in games overall, Zarya is the more useful character.

Well it is when you have the media making a big deal out of "the portrayal of women in video games", it scares the artists away from experimenting with female character design because they fear they might offend someone. So you end up with what you had prior to Zarya, that being fairly average, generic, inoffensive and "safe" characters. There's also the marketing side of it too i.e. statistics, research, and demographics etc.

Or claim they're all for diversity then dismiss a suggestion such as character accent diversity because then it's some how "silly" and "not everyone is like that".

You're using quotes there, but I don't remember anybody saying either of those things.

Admittedly paraphrasing but here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873524] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873565].

 

[theNater]

Well it is when you have the media making a big deal out of "the portrayal of women in video games"...

I don't have the media doing anything. I don't control the media. I know the magnifying glass makes me look impressive, but I'm just a random person on the internet, same as you.

Admittedly paraphrasing but here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873524] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873565].

Those posts are pretty clearly dismissing your claim of discrimination, not your suggestion of accent diversity.

 

[inmunitas]

Well it is when you have the media making a big deal out of "the portrayal of women in video games"...

I don't have the media doing anything. I don't control the media. I know the magnifying glass makes me look impressive, but I'm just a random person on the internet, same as you.

Not "you" as in "you personally", but "you have" as an expression as in "you have for example".

 

[EternallyBored]

Or claim they're all for diversity then dismiss a suggestion such as character accent diversity because then it's some how "silly" and "not everyone is like that".

You're using quotes there, but I don't remember anybody saying either of those things.

Admittedly paraphrasing but here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873524] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873565].

Well it is when you have the media making a big deal out of "the portrayal of women in video games"...

I don't have the media doing anything. I don't control the media. I know the magnifying glass makes me look impressive, but I'm just a random person on the internet, same as you.

Admittedly paraphrasing but here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873524] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873565].

Those posts are pretty clearly dismissing your claim of discrimination, not your suggestion of accent diversity.

Hi there, I noticed that apparently I am being quoted here for this argument, I figured I might as well clear up the gist of my post as immunitas is not paraphrasing me, he is making up his own interpretation for some reason.

theNater is correct with his post, I at no point dismissed the idea of accent diversity, only immunitas' frankly absurd claim that calling Tracer's cockney accent stereotypically British was somehow discriminatory.

To give context, this chain started when I made a post pointing out that a lot of Overwatch's characters fit into the common national stereotypes that fighting games like Street Fighter often use. Immunitas seemed to take issue with the idea that cockney was a British stereotype as cockney accents were primarily from Southern Britain, to which I pointed out that a stereotype being regional does not exclude it from being a national stereotype, the same way that McCree is a stereotypical American cowboy is not changed by the fact that cowboys are primarily from the Western region of the country.

Basically, everyone took issue with immunitas calling it discrimination, not the idea of accents in and of themselves. Blizzard adding some more accent diversity into the game would actually be interesting, and a good conversation to have, much like the body diversity, giving some spotlights to some less common portrayals of national accents or archetypes beyond the most common (cowboys, monks, cockney accents) could be a good thing.

Much like the body diversity though, I consider it a secondary criticism, and will still buy the game even if they don't do it, much like I was still planning to buy the game before Zarya was announced.

Also, please don't try to paraphrase me in the future if you are going to do such a poor job of it.

 

[inmunitas]

Hi there, I noticed that apparently I am being quoted here for this argument, I figured I might as well clear up the gist of my post as immunitas is not paraphrasing me, he is making up his own interpretation for some reason.

theNater is correct with his post, I at no point dismissed the idea of accent diversity, only immunitas' frankly absurd claim that calling Tracer's cockney accent stereotypically British was somehow discriminatory.

To give context, this chain started when I made a post pointing out that a lot of Overwatch's characters fit into the common national stereotypes that fighting games like Street Fighter often use. Immunitas seemed to take issue with the idea that cockney was a British stereotype as cockney accents were primarily from Southern Britain, to which I pointed out that a stereotype being regional does not exclude it from being a national stereotype, the same way that McCree is a stereotypical American cowboy is not changed by the fact that cowboys are primarily from the Western region of the country.

Basically, everyone took issue with immunitas calling it discrimination, not the idea of accents in and of themselves. Blizzard adding some more accent diversity into the game would actually be interesting, and a good conversation to have, much like the body diversity, giving some spotlights to some less common portrayals of national accents or archetypes beyond the most common (cowboys, monks, cockney accents) could be a good thing.

Much like the body diversity though, I consider it a secondary criticism, and will still buy the game even if they don't do it, much like I was still planning to buy the game before Zarya was announced.

Also, please don't try to paraphrase me in the future if you are going to do such a poor job of it.

Well no, Cockney is associated with a commoner from a specific area of London, it's a very specific stereotype, with the majority of London not having that accent, never mind "Southern Britain". If I was doing stereotypical British, I'd go with the well spoken upper-class gentleman or lady, as it's a far more general stereotype.