New Overwatch Hero Is a Response to Body-Type Diversity Criticism

[Redryhno]

When did I say or imply it was normal?

You didn't, and I'm not claiming that you did. See, it's not the voter apathy I'm saying looks normal. We both know that voter apathy hurts everybody. But what I'm not sure you've recognized is that it hurts women more than it hurts men. It's hard to see the differing level of harm because it's always been there. That's what looks normal; those levels of harm.

It hurts EVERYBODY though. Women are only hurt the slightest of margins more, if at all, we have no way of knowing for sure. There are multiple people with good ideas that are closed out of running for election because they either don't have nice enough records, capital, aren't a part of our two-party system, or are in the shithouse with them, or the people in charge have been in charge forever and have a monopoly on voters.There's a few women that are a part of that too, I might add. So if anything, it's more an example of Congressional Privilege, which I think everyone will agree on.But call it male privilege if you want.

So long as I get to call male educators getting turned away in favor of female educators, mothers getting preferential treatment in nearly every situation, social settings favoring protecting women over protecting everybody, and, most importantly, women restrooms getting more attention when it comes to cleaning and upkeep all just a few examples of female privilege.

 

[theNater]

It hurts EVERYBODY though. Women are only hurt the slightest of margins more, if at all, we have no way of knowing for sure. There are multiple people with good ideas that are closed out of running for election because they either don't have nice enough records, capital, aren't a part of our two-party system, or are in the shithouse with them, or the people in charge have been in charge forever and have a monopoly on voters.There's a few women that are a part of that too, I might add. So if anything, it's more an example of Congressional Privilege, which I think everyone will agree on.But call it male privilege if you want.

So long as I get to call male educators getting turned away in favor of female educators, mothers getting preferential treatment in nearly every situation, social settings favoring protecting women over protecting everybody, and, most importantly, women restrooms getting more attention when it comes to cleaning and upkeep all just a few examples of female privilege.

Sounds like we're largely in agreement, then. Thank you for joining me in this interesting conversation!

 

[deadish]

So they have gone from pandering to teenage boys to pandering to PC SJWs ... heh.

Whatever floats their boat (or to be blunt, makes them more money).

Personally I don't believe art of any kind (including video games) should be held to any kind of "standard" nor need the approval of "moral guardians".

Diversity for the sake of diversity ... don't think that has ever made any work of art better.

 

[theNater]

So they have gone from pandering to teenage boys to pandering to PC SJWs ... heh.

Whatever floats their boat (or to be blunt, makes them more money).

Personally I don't believe art of any kind (including video games) should be held to any kind of "standard" nor need the approval of "moral guardians".

Did something happen to Widowmaker while I wasn't looking?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Did something happen to Widowmaker while I wasn't looking?

No see, they're pandering to someone else for a change, and that's unacceptable.

Blizzard should only pander to the audience if it's their normal audience, not these fake gamers who've been playing for years and years.

 

[Garlador]

Diversity for the sake of diversity ... don't think that has ever made any work of art better.

I'll just chip in and say that, as someone who makes comics, diversifying my characters and stories, just for the sake of diversity, has greatly benefited my comics with a wider repertoire of stories, characters, and genres to dabble in. And I did it just to make things diverse and fresh for myself and readers. It benefited everyone.

 

[The Wooster]

Diversity for the sake of diversity ... don't think that has ever made any work of art better.

I'll just chip in and say that, as someone who makes comics, diversifying my characters and stories, just for the sake of diversity, has greatly benefited my comics with a wider repertoire of stories, characters, and genres to dabble in. And I did it just to make things diverse and fresh for myself and readers. It benefited everyone.

Ditto. Pushing myself to try new characters rather than sticking within my comfort zone has done a lot to improve my writing.

 

[deadish]

Diversity for the sake of diversity ... don't think that has ever made any work of art better.

I'll just chip in and say that, as someone who makes comics, diversifying my characters and stories, just for the sake of diversity, has greatly benefited my comics with a wider repertoire of stories, characters, and genres to dabble in. And I did it just to make things diverse and fresh for myself and readers. It benefited everyone.

I meant "PC diversity".

You should write whatever you want, use whatever characters you want, to get your story across.

Adding diversity just to meet some arbitrary quota of whatever minority group, rarely ends well.

 

[deadish]

Did something happen to Widowmaker while I wasn't looking?

No see, they're pandering to someone else for a change, and that's unacceptable.

Blizzard should only pander to the audience if it's their normal audience, not these fake gamers who've been playing for years and years.

Hey, I never said it was *always* bad to pander - in certain cases it can act as a constraint on freedom of expression. They are a for profit company. Whatever brings in the greens.

Although ... whether it will actually bring in more money ... We will have to wait and see I suppose.

When you pandering to one audience it frequently means NOT pandering to another, as taste can be mutually exclusive, in the worst case you can even end up alienating a market segment. e.g. Chick flicks that men are frequently dragged against their will to watch.

 

[inmunitas]

So they have gone from pandering to teenage boys to pandering to PC SJWs ... heh.

Whatever floats their boat (or to be blunt, makes them more money).

Personally I don't believe art of any kind (including video games) should be held to any kind of "standard" nor need the approval of "moral guardians".

Did something happen to Widowmaker while I wasn't looking?

Yes, because "sexy" is "evil" and only the most self-hating of women could actually prefer playing as a "sexy" female character. No no any "sexy" female character must be targeting teenage boys because reasons and stuff.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

I understand that variety even in visual character design is a good thing but isn't this character just a lazy archetype? "Buff Female Russian Bodybuilder"?

Every other female character so far has had more interesting design. Probably in terms of abilities too.

So this is nice but it would be nicer if they weren't so blatantly filling in a hole in the spectrum. The idea is that good character design should be reflected in games in a variety of different appearances, not that this variety is in and of itself a good thing (though it is).

Her abilities don't even seem to go well with the theme.The basic attack immediately made me think "what does that have to do with anything?" Just seems like they lazily threw something together.

 

[inmunitas]

I understand that variety even in visual character design is a good thing but isn't this character just a lazy archetype? "Buff Female Russian Bodybuilder"?

Every other female character so far has had more interesting design. Probably in terms of abilities too.

So this is nice but it would be nicer if they weren't so blatantly filling in a hole in the spectrum. The idea is that good character design should be reflected in games in a variety of different appearances, not that this variety is in and of itself a good thing (though it is).

Her abilities don't even seem to go well with the theme.The basic attack immediately made me think "what does that have to do with anything?" Just seems like they lazily threw something together.

Simply asking for a bit more variety into the visual design of characters is too much like down to earth common sense. But no, political agendas just have to be shoehorned into it for some reason, can't even have a simple song contest these days without it being turned into politics.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Well, it makes you sound like an assblasted idiot, just letting you know.
As far as the character is concerned, I get the bodybuilding thing, but that with the dyed hair makes her look like she was designed to appeal to a very specific demographic that seems to do nothing but whine loudly about non issues.

As opposed to a different very specific demographic currently whining about 1 character in 14 like it's not a non-issue?

 

[Zhukov]

Well, it makes you sound like an assblasted idiot, just letting you know.
As far as the character is concerned, I get the bodybuilding thing, but that with the dyed hair makes her look like she was designed to appeal to a very specific demographic that seems to do nothing but whine loudly about non issues.

Are you aware that the character's appearance is loosely based on a Blizzard employee? Her name is Tamara Bakhlycheva.

Yes, including the pink hair [http://www.blizzcn.com/upimg/allimg/120823/1423480.jpg].

But don't let that stop you from ranting on about specific demographics.

 

[Erttheking]

I understand that variety even in visual character design is a good thing but isn't this character just a lazy archetype? "Buff Female Russian Bodybuilder"?

Every other female character so far has had more interesting design. Probably in terms of abilities too.

So this is nice but it would be nicer if they weren't so blatantly filling in a hole in the spectrum. The idea is that good character design should be reflected in games in a variety of different appearances, not that this variety is in and of itself a good thing (though it is).

Her abilities don't even seem to go well with the theme.The basic attack immediately made me think "what does that have to do with anything?" Just seems like they lazily threw something together.

No more of a lazy archetype than sexy woman in skin tight suit is.

Also, it is really an archtype? Can you give me an example of some female Russian bodybuilders in recent games?

 

[theNater]

Yes, because "sexy" is "evil" and only the most self-hating of women could actually prefer playing as a "sexy" female character.

I know you're just trying to help, but this reads like you trying to tell other people what it is and isn't okay to like. That's not cool.

Speaking of trying to help, I notice you still haven't provided details about that British Northerner you want. I'm sure this is due to trying to polish up your ideas, because you're obviously in these threads in an attempt to make Overwatch the best game it can be and not just to complain about people who aren't you getting something that they like. Do you have some idea when you're likely to post that? I'd hate to miss it.

 

[Lilani]

Jesus we're still talking about this?

Oh no, guys! It turns out basically anything that makes it into a AAA game has been rigorously designed and discussed as to who it appeals to and where it falls on the diversity spectrum, INCLUDING the original lineup for this game! Which means every character in this game has had its demographics hashed out and the only difference is when they came out! The HORROR! GAMES ARE RUINED!

 

[inmunitas]

Yes, because "sexy" is "evil" and only the most self-hating of women could actually prefer playing as a "sexy" female character.

I know you're just trying to help, but this reads like you trying to tell other people what it is and isn't okay to like. That's not cool.

Speaking of trying to help, I notice you still haven't provided details about that British Northerner you want. I'm sure this is due to trying to polish up your ideas, because you're obviously in these threads in an attempt to make Overwatch the best game it can be and not just to complain about people who aren't you getting something that they like. Do you have some idea when you're likely to post that? I'd hate to miss it.

I'm just trying to raise points that some people clearly haven't considered, you have people claiming they're all for character body-type diversity, but then go criticise other characters solely based on that characters body-type. Or claim they're all for diversity then dismiss a suggestion such as character accent diversity because then it's some how "silly" and "not everyone is like that".

 

[RolandOfGilead]

Finally they put some muscles on the girl instead of toothpick arms, still would have been nice if they were a bit in between hulked out and toothpicks, ( like real girl arms) but at least she has muscles at all.

Real girl arms are bleh, toothpick arms are only marginally better, well-toned arms are the best, muscly second best.

 

[theNater]

I'm just trying to raise points that some people clearly haven't considered, you have people claiming they're all character body-type diversity, but then go criticise other characters solely based on that characters body-type.

Criticizing a character design is not the same as saying that character shouldn't be included. Diversity necessarily means including things that are designed to appeal to people who aren't me, and that's fine.

It's also worth noting that my main criticism of Widowmaker is that the basic concept actually gets done a lot, as opposed to Zarya's. Despite the occasional claim that Zarya is a a stereotype, people are having a hard time finding many examples of characters like her in games. When it comes to diversity in games overall, Zarya is the more useful character.

Or claim they're all for diversity then dismiss a suggestion such as character accent diversity because then it's some how "silly" and "not everyone is like that".

You're using quotes there, but I don't remember anybody saying either of those things.