New Rust Update Assigns Players Permanent, Random Gender

[Lightknight]

I would love to see their sales cycles around these announcements. I wonder what kind of correlation we see.

If we see an uptick in sales then sadly this means we're seeing developers encouraged to piss on their fans later in the product life.

Not really, it just shows that the fans who get pissed off aren't the key demographic.

First off, I didn't say anything about the key demographics. I was talking about their fans. The current players.

Secondly, the statement that people getting pissed off by a corporate decision aren't key demographics is an axiomatically true statement except in rare circumstance where they are trying to make the key demographics happy but it backfires somehow. -snip-

Except for ISP's, most airlines, and so on. Actually a lot of corporate decisions piss people in the key demographic off, if the comapny can afford to get away with it.

I'm sorry, but you appear to be confusing consumers who buy the product as most company's key demographics when it's actually the shareholders of the company. There is a significant disconnect between corporate boards and the company's actual product and consumer relationship the larger the company gets. Consumers are only fortunate in that a general failure to cater to consumers can lead to lower sales which results in a failure to cater to the shareholders. If a decision pisses off consumers but makes the shareholders happy then it's likely to be made.

It just happens that in the case of entertainment, including games, the consumer has almost all of the power. An unhappy consumer of Rust is not in the position of being angry at their water or power company, or their ISP.

The potential consumer has all the power. The consumer who already paid for the service has no power unless a refund is an option.

Take rust for example. I paid for it years ago and have played more than five hours in it. Now that they have made this decision I have no power or recourse.

Now, if a new game made this decision as part of their release and not a patch then the consumer would have this power.

But here we're beginning to butt heads with the difference between pre-release titles and released titles.

 

[kitsunefather]

This is an interesting experiment, to be sure. I just don't think people should have a product they paid for changed in such an abrupt and potentially detrimental manner without either warning, or an offer of a refund.

This is a game being funded largely through Early Access, which means they are asking you to buy in to their finished product while it is still in works, and that is a leap of faith. People have bought their product based on the style of play, the overall aesthetic, and the promise of the features to come later.

To hand wave in the idea that this is "realistic" or references to "God" is silly. This isn't like that, because you paid for the experience. This is a product that they sold you, that they are making relatively sweeping changes to, seemingly at random, in the form of assignment of race/sex/penis size (I'm assuming breast sizes will not vary). This diminishes the value for some players.

The problem again, however, is that most of the people who are going to buy this game already have. It's been on early access for what, a year or more now?

Basically, I'm fine with this if they allow people who don't want to participate in their college-level psych experiment to get refunds, or if Steam makes "Sweeping changes to the core game" a condition for refund.

 

[Thyunda]

I dress for other people mate.

I'm a one-wo/man performance.

But you can't really choose your appearance beyond what randomly generated scraps of clothes you loot. Granted, Rust has a reasonable variety of clothes/armour in theory, but in the game you're lucky to get something that keeps you warm at night.

I can appreciate dressing for other people, Rust just doesn't really seem to support that idea.

Come now, what would be the point in making it easy? If I'm gonna be fabulous, I'm gonna fight for it.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

True, but I like to have some empathy with my characters. Scream racism and "muh soggy knee" all you want, but I can't emphasis with a fat, black, 40 year old woman. I am not fat, I am white, I am male, and I'm 20. I know, I'm the devil incarnate.
I'd feel pretty uncomfortable playing a pale white, 60 year old guy with an elephant penis as well, and that's mainly because I like characters I can relate to on a physical level. Removing customization feels like a giant fuck you.

I always find sentiments like this weird given the number of non-human videogame and movie protagonists, like Spyro, Crash, Sonic, Shrek, almost every pixar movie, half of the Disney movies... I don't think I've ever heard someone complain that they can't emphasize with those, but I've heard it plenty of times with people of different races and genders.

I can understand having more of an affinity to people more similar to you, but the number of people who can't emphasize with different races and genders, while the commercial success would seem to imply that movies with non-human protagonists do fine seems really odd to me.

I agree that generally I like the option of customization (although I can't remember the last character I've made that looked at all like me), but having one game on the market that decides to remove it in favor of trying something different doesn't really bother me at all.

 

[Zontar]

And this is will be placed under "Reason #937 for why I will never buy Rust and continue to play Gmod".

I mean for god sake, just make Gmod: Source 2 already! You're a one-hit-wonder and Rust will never reach anywhere near Gmod levels!

 

[Jamash]

Is this game going to set a record for the most refunded game on Steam?

I mean it's not necessarily a bad game that people wouldn't buy (or would think was good when it wasn't), but with Steam's new refund policy, I can see lots of people who were interested in buying this game purchasing it, then getting an instant refund as soon as they see the random character they're permanently and arbitrarily assigned.

 

[Politrukk]

Basically, it is. One of the reasons why Garry refuses to deal with things such as raiders is because he wants players to assemble in to tribes and defend/raid villages. From what I can gather, Newman doesn't want to create a survival game as he wants to study virtual societies.

Personally, as a sociology nut, I'm quite interested in getting the game. Providing that I will be able to get in to a decent clan and not get instantly killed by overleveled players.

I've put quite some hours into rust(even the old build) and the game does just that, it makes people form shaky alliances and social constructs that they would otherwise never consider and forces you to think creatively to survive rather than just straightforward.


Rust is a game in which experience actually means something, that's why they took out the old "set" map and went on to procedurally created maps, you need to get your bearings after every server wipe, you need to learn about your surroundings, about your neighbours about what you can and can't do.

Choices can range from
Do I kill the noob who's building next to our outpost? he might bring friends and we're only a small group, right now we can deal with him but later he may turn into a vicious enemy!

To
Do we work together with the X-Clan to deal with X player who's playing this game night and day and raiding our stuff? can they be trusted?

To
How do I effectively build the biggest best defensible base whilst keeping it grief-proof and quick to repair (due to the decay mechanic).

To
What do I place where inside my base and how do I design the interior to make sure I lose as little as possible in a raid whilst remaining as efficient as I possibly can?

To
How do we penetrate this guy's defences without him noticing we were in there.


I've played with all kinds of people who came up with all manner of exploits, ideas, layouts, socials constructs that kept the game engaging for hours on end.

To this day I myself can still remember the layout of all my important bases, what went in to creating them, what went where and why we chose to do battle or ally with certain figures on our servers.

This is an interesting experiment, to be sure. I just don't think people should have a product they paid for changed in such an abrupt and potentially detrimental manner without either warning, or an offer of a refund.

This is a game being funded largely through Early Access, which means they are asking you to buy in to their finished product while it is still in works, and that is a leap of faith. People have bought their product based on the style of play, the overall aesthetic, and the promise of the features to come later.

To hand wave in the idea that this is "realistic" or references to "God" is silly. This isn't like that, because you paid for the experience. This is a product that they sold you, that they are making relatively sweeping changes to, seemingly at random, in the form of assignment of race/sex/penis size (I'm assuming breast sizes will not vary). This diminishes the value for some players.

The problem again, however, is that most of the people who are going to buy this game already have. It's been on early access for what, a year or more now?

Basically, I'm fine with this if they allow people who don't want to participate in their college-level psych experiment to get refunds, or if Steam makes "Sweeping changes to the core game" a condition for refund.

Your complaint is irrelevant, not that there is no validity in it, but we're talking about a game that had a full setup built and then the developers decided to scratch the entire thing and rebuild during Early access.


Same thing that happened to Godus except that the developers for Rust actually had good reason and intention to revamp their game and are still very much involved in the development.

 

[infohippie]

I think it's a great idea on the surface, except for locking it permanently to your Steam ID. It would be much better if it was selected randomly at every death. Could maybe have it keep the same seed if the character dies in less than half an hour, just to prevent people from rerolling constantly until they find an appearance they prefer.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Wow, so edgy. *Yawn* When given a choice I tend to play as a female character anyways. For that matter, I prefer the non-human characters too. When will you be adding non-humans to the mix Gary Newman?

I want to play as a shed. Where's that, hmmmm?

I was hoping for a warm summer breeze character. I could equip the sent of cut grass and wield my cotton wood pollen.

<.<

Spoiler: So, you want a sequel to Flower?

Alright, I could get on board with that.

Maybe we can level up in the game to become a gust of wind, then a roaring storm, and finally a raging hurricane! >

I can see the title now.

"Flower 2: I am the Wind"

 

[thewatergamer]

I guess it's an interesting idea but scotch taping it onto a survival game that's supposed to focus on I guess Roleplaying? Is a really stupid idea, people want to play who they want to play, let them do that I say, I could be more forgiving if this was a free game or this was going to be the way the game was played from the very beginning but the fact that tons of customers already bought the game under the reasonable assumption they would be able to create their own characters are now getting a big fat fuck you

 

[Ihateregistering1]

The fact that you're all so "not okay" with this makes me realise why TUMBLR spawned all those folk who can't shut up about their treesexuality.

The entire point the developer is trying to make is that he could have forced you to play the naked white guy and that was okay and nobody complained.

Then he forced you to play either the naked white guy or the naked black or hispanic guy and people started throwing a hissy fit.

Now all he's done is possibly dooming you to be a woman as well.

I've never heard people complain about god damn bayonetta when they were men and I've sure as hell never heard any women tell me that Mario should grow some tits.

You're all immature and ridiculous and your outrage about this dev is immature and ridiculous.

Your points are way off-base. For starters, Lara Croft, Bayonetta, hell even Mario, are characters with backstories, personalities, and individual traits. They are, in other words, characters. Your person in Rust isn't even really a character: they're just a blank slate you project whatever you want onto.

Since characters can obviously be made black, or hispanic, or female, or fat, or whatever, it means the game possesses the means to allow you to custom create your own character to your own liking, and the devs have removed your ability to do that. THAT'S IT. That's what bugs people: the devs have arbitrarily curtailed your freedom to choose how you want your avatar to look for seemingly no reason whatsoever.

Imagine if in Starcraft 2, Blizzard removed the option of getting to choose which color you wanted your Army to be for no reason whatsoever, and when asked why, they responded with "well you don't get to choose how everything turns out in real life so we're going to make the game like that". Except I don't play video games to imitate real life; I play games to kill Zombies or command armies of Zerg or tear apart monsters in 'Prototype' or whatever your poison is. So when you remove my freedom to do what I want in a game for no reason whatsoever, I'm a less happy gamer, and that's it.

 

[Vigormortis]

I don't know, that's a very real world thing some of us deal with routinely. Only it doesn't go away when we turn off the game.

You misunderstand my meaning.

The dev assigning a random sex to a player, and having that assignment permanent to that players SteamID, is the equivalent of telling someone who is transgender (or suffers from gender dysphoria, etc), "You were born with one specific set of genitalia, therefore you ARE that sex and nothing you do or think will change that. Ever." It's a confounding gimmick.

And moreover, given that the game bills itself on player freedom in virtually every other area, it's truly bizarre for them to forcibly randomize, and make permanent, such a major aspect of character choice.

[edit]
To be honest, I'm not opposed to the idea of fully randomized attributes for player characters. In fact, I actually like the idea.

But to have each players first roll applied permanently to their SteamID, leaving out even the possibility of a reroll, is what ruins the idea for me.

 

[Nazulu]

No, that's dickish. You don't just make big changes like this when people have already bought the game (or is it free?) and settled into the experience. I'd have no problem if the game started with this, but give warning.

Fuck you Gary Newman. Another dumb dev that keeps missing the point that convenience should be the future.

 

[Ukomba]

Wow, so edgy. *Yawn* When given a choice I tend to play as a female character anyways. For that matter, I prefer the non-human characters too. When will you be adding non-humans to the mix Gary Newman?

I want to play as a shed. Where's that, hmmmm?

I was hoping for a warm summer breeze character. I could equip the sent of cut grass and wield my cotton wood pollen.

<.<

Spoiler: So, you want a sequel to Flower?

Alright, I could get on board with that.

Maybe we can level up in the game to become a gust of wind, then a roaring storm, and finally a raging hurricane! >

I can see the title now.

"Flower 2: I am the Wind"

Naw, the point is to be a wind that can blow around the spawning naked people. Actually, that would make the brisk autumn chill more desirable wouldn't it... well, depending on who you want to blow against.

 

[Something Amyss]

You misunderstand my meaning.

Not so much misunderstand your meaning as disagree with its application as per the comparison.

But okay.

 

[Winnosh]

No, that's dickish. You don't just make big changes like this when people have already bought the game (or is it free?) and settled into the experience. I'd have no problem if the game started with this, but give warning.

Fuck you Gary Newman. Another dumb dev that keeps missing the point that convenience should be the future.

Not when the point of the game is to study stuff like this. This isn't a surprise. He's not saying that you get to choose and then taking that away from you. It's just a random character generator plenty of games have them.

 

[Nazulu]

No, that's dickish. You don't just make big changes like this when people have already bought the game (or is it free?) and settled into the experience. I'd have no problem if the game started with this, but give warning.

Fuck you Gary Newman. Another dumb dev that keeps missing the point that convenience should be the future.

Not when the point of the game is to study stuff like this. This isn't a surprise. He's not saying that you get to choose and then taking that away from you. It's just a random character generator plenty of games have them.

What do you mean study stuff like this? And it is a surprise because a lot of people here even are surprised by this change.

Plus I'm saying for the people who already have a character setup in the world because it's what they original paid for, this will be very annoying for them because this update isn't what they paid for, or originally joined for. He's already taking away from those who already chosen their designs.

And I also said that I'm fine with random character generators, but not to just chuck them in when a player-base has already been established. If it was at release I wouldn't care at all.

 

[kitsunefather]

Not when the point of the game is to study stuff like this. This isn't a surprise. He's not saying that you get to choose and then taking that away from you. It's just a random character generator plenty of games have them.

But, and I may be completely out of the loop on this, was that the stated point when people were buying it on Early Access as a Zombie Survival game? My assumption would be no, otherwise people would be less surprised by this college-level psych study stuff.

Instead, it seems more likely that the game was billed and sold as one thing, which drew in people to buy into Early Access to fund the game being promoted, and these are changes made by the whim of the developer that move it away from that further and further.

My stance remains the same: if they offer a refund to people who no longer want to play, or Steam adopts a "Massive Change to Core Game" clause in their refund policy, I couldn't care less.

Yes, this is a psych experiment. One that the participants were uninformed that they were participating (unethical in actual psych studies, and were charged money to participate in. That is my primary problem. He can do with his game as he likes, but this is an "unfinished product" that was sold as one thing, and he's turned into another for what looks like an attempt at relevancy.

Before we begin to debate this: psych experiments can mislead a person as to the nature and intent of the study they are participating in, but in the US at least, you cannot perform psych studies on people who have not agreed to participate. Yes, this isn't a professional psych study (obviously), but the argument that it is a psych study seems to be the only defense of the practices that the developers of Rust seems to be engaged in.

Current Steam Description:
The only aim in Rust is to survive. To do this you will need to overcome struggles such as hunger, thirst and cold. Build a fire. Build a shelter. Kill animals for meat. Protect yourself from other players, and kill them for meat. Create alliances with other players and form a town. Whatever it takes to survive.

I don't see "Social Experiment" or "Psychological Experiment" anywhere in that.

Early Access Developer Quote:
?We are in very early development. Some things work, some things don't. We haven't totally decided where the game is headed - so things will change. Things will change a lot. We might even make changes that you think are wrong. But we have a plan. It's in our interest to make the game awesome - so please trust us.?

Maybe it's in here, in a subtext I'm not able to read. Is it the "we might make changes you think are wrong" line? Is that what informs you the point of the game is a Social Experiment? In all seriousness, of course it isn't. The game was clearly not conceived as a social experiment. It was just a middling Zombie Survival game that the dev decided to he was bored with.

TL;DR:
This isn't a psych study, it is a product that was (and is still) sold as an Early Access game, originally billed as a Zombie Survival game. It is now a 3d Minecraft Simulator, and while I find the social experiment interesting, those who do not wish to participate should be allowed refunds on a product that the devs have changed so completely from its original description.

 

[Vigormortis]

Not so much misunderstand your meaning as disagree with its application as per the comparison.

But okay.

So you feel Facepunch's decision to force users to adhere to whichever random roll they get is equi....actually, what are you implying?

 

[Nazulu]

"A character"

You mean one of a number of identical clones?

What are you talking about?