New Vegas: Why Join the Legion?

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silver wolf009

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Jan 23, 2010
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johntheescapist said:
The sad thing about New Vegas is that neither the NCR or Legion can hold the Mojave due to the tunnelers from the divide in lonesome road.
Way to make us all feel bad man. Here we were, all about to have this nice big punch up at Hoover Dam, and then, BAM! You come in, and are all like, "Lizard Men Things are here for our Women and Land now."

Imagine what you've done to No-Bark.
 

Sandernista

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Feb 26, 2009
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Ultratwinkie said:
1. What do you want me to call them? Muskets, rifles, carbines? A lot of the names came from that era. Hell, Carbines are shorter rifles originally developed for cavalry. Does that mean I should call them "Car-muskets?" Hell no. Secondly, yes they did use firing lines. The firing lines were meant to fire after the other line fired, it was meant to keep rate of fire up.
Most of them were muskets, very few were actually rifles. I also never said they didn't use firing lines, but it was clearly not the only way to be able to hit a target. Didn't you ever learn about the revolutionary war?

3. Yes, army requirements have gotten continually smaller. The reason you have countries like the US have a 1 million soldiers is because somehow we "need" it
This is incorrect. The reason we have such a large standing army is because of the realities following both world wars.

4. Standardization in idea, but techniques and quality weren't. You forget there weren't factories for this stuff, they are hand made. There are times when actual armor was so rare, it was passed from generation to generation.
You are wrong. Standardization of weapons and armor was fairly easy using molds and similar techniques. It wasn't fast, or perfect, but it was close. Armor was only that rare more than 3000 years ago.

5. Standing armies weren't a thing 400 years ago? Standing armies go all the way back to Rome, and even the Ottomans had a standing army. Its only the term "standing army" that is 400 years old.
Standing armies were not a thing among the great powers. The reason powers like the Ottoman Turks, or the Prussians stood out due to military might is (in part) because they adopted professional soldiers. You are 100% wrong when you say armies have gotten smaller.
 

Mert Matthews

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Feb 12, 2012
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Since i finished the game years ago i have been thinking, why would anyone would want to join those lunatics? I also would like to add they are as much roman as Cthulhu. Rome almost worshipped science and development untill it collapsed under its own lazy ass. The architecture, employing greatest minds and ballistas, scorpios, Onagers, Water ducts and so much more. These guys are a walking insult to Rome and only logical thing i could do is to accept ceasars invitation, talk philosophy with him,smart guy and actually trying to change the legion but his ego and bullshit is just too much, then pull out a Minigun and massacre the damn place.

I Disagree with ideals of NCR because look around you and what your democracy did to you. Then House said something along the lines of "If you want to see what democracy and old world ideas accomplished, look through the window. So NCR is slowly progressing cancer while Legion are bunch of retards with machetes lodged in their heads. Yes-Man is the anarchy route which is dumb because on my 2nd play through i went with him and since i was planning to take over vegas, for RP reasons i gathered enough armor, weapons, caps, ammo, food to house a friggin army and march on NCR. Turns out, nope, you gotta leave them in the end resulting in anarchy so, so much for that...
 

johntheescapist

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Apr 27, 2013
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silver wolf009 said:
johntheescapist said:
The sad thing about New Vegas is that neither the NCR or Legion can hold the Mojave due to the tunnelers from the divide in lonesome road.
Way to make us all feel bad man. Here we were, all about to have this nice big punch up at Hoover Dam, and then, BAM! You come in, and are all like, "Lizard Men Things are here for our Women and Land now."

Imagine what you've done to No-Bark.
I mean hey don't blame me, the developers undercut the vanilla game with the tunnelers and Lonesome Road not me. After you learn about the tunnelers in game it makes you think, "well why even put in a Legion ending?" if they are just going to lose to to a bunch of deathclaw killing wack a moles?
 

silver wolf009

[[NULL]]
Jan 23, 2010
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johntheescapist said:
silver wolf009 said:
johntheescapist said:
The sad thing about New Vegas is that neither the NCR or Legion can hold the Mojave due to the tunnelers from the divide in lonesome road.
Way to make us all feel bad man. Here we were, all about to have this nice big punch up at Hoover Dam, and then, BAM! You come in, and are all like, "Lizard Men Things are here for our Women and Land now."

Imagine what you've done to No-Bark.
I mean hey don't blame me, the developers undercut the vanilla game with the tunnelers and Lonesome Road not me. After you learn about the tunnelers in game it makes you think, "well why even put in a Legion ending?" if they are just going to lose to to a bunch of deathclaw killing wack a moles?
Presumably we'll get a another squeal, Fallout: Gears of War, where the last remaining vestiages of society cling to the rocky mountains the Tunnelers cannot penetrate, while they ravage the world once more, sinking cities with a giant worm!


Captcha: Hobby-Horse.
 

Gonztah

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Feb 2, 2010
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Hafrael said:
Ultratwinkie said:
1. What do you want me to call them? Muskets, rifles, carbines? A lot of the names came from that era. Hell, Carbines are shorter rifles originally developed for cavalry. Does that mean I should call them "Car-muskets?" Hell no. Secondly, yes they did use firing lines. The firing lines were meant to fire after the other line fired, it was meant to keep rate of fire up.
Most of them were muskets, very few were actually rifles. I also never said they didn't use firing lines, but it was clearly not the only way to be able to hit a target. Didn't you ever learn about the revolutionary war?

3. Yes, army requirements have gotten continually smaller. The reason you have countries like the US have a 1 million soldiers is because somehow we "need" it
This is incorrect. The reason we have such a large standing army is because of the realities following both world wars.

4. Standardization in idea, but techniques and quality weren't. You forget there weren't factories for this stuff, they are hand made. There are times when actual armor was so rare, it was passed from generation to generation.
You are wrong. Standardization of weapons and armor was fairly easy using molds and similar techniques. It wasn't fast, or perfect, but it was close. Armor was only that rare more than 3000 years ago.

5. Standing armies weren't a thing 400 years ago? Standing armies go all the way back to Rome, and even the Ottomans had a standing army. Its only the term "standing army" that is 400 years old.
Standing armies were not a thing among the great powers. The reason powers like the Ottoman Turks, or the Prussians stood out due to military might is (in part) because they adopted professional soldiers. You are 100% wrong when you say armies have gotten smaller.
Well, armies today are unnecessarily big, also compared to the ratio of army to other people I'd take a guess they're smaller than what they used to be. (Don't flip your shit if I'm wrong, it's just a guess). Also define great powers and at which time, to my knowledge standing armies have been a thing since the Romans (Like Twinkie said.)
 

Virgilthepagan

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May 15, 2010
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Think you've got it mostly on the nose. The one detail I'd add is how dependent the whole Legion model is on Caesar. While he's a perfectly competent general and a fantastic leader of men, he has few contingencies in place for keeping the legion going. Think of him as a Luddite Augustus, then remember what we how well his successors turned out. The likes of Nero and Caligula wouldn't be more than a generation or two away from leading the Legion themselves. Any security the legion might've offered in its safe zones is contingent on Caesar remaining alive, which his brain tumor already casts into doubt...
 

Paradoxrifts

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Jan 17, 2010
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The problem with the NCR is that their greatest military minds have probably realised by now that a legendary warrior will always arise right about the time that something else is about to pop out of the wasteland and utterly eradicate them from existence. Having the canon player character be on your side constantly ensures that they can get by on a shoe string military budget. :p
 

AgDr_ODST

Cortana's guardian
Oct 22, 2009
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I only 'joined' the legion one time after Caesar sent Vulpes to give me his Mark after I had dealt with Benny and that was only for the achievements and to see how the paths branched in the game. I decided at the very beginning once the factions were established to give both groups a fair shake but I was immediately disgusted by Caesar's vision and his brutality..and I also didn't like how he and all of his followers sneered at my female character and I suspected that once I was done playing legionnaire for him and in effect winning the legions war in the Mojave for him he'd completely and utterly screw my character over. I did like the design of the legion and how the historical aspect that inspires Caesar translates over to their methodology, hierarchy and tactics..but I still destroy them with gusto every time.
 

Randomperson9999999

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Sep 16, 2010
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I was neutral to begin with but ended up siding with the legion. The NCR and Vegas factions were all simply too corrupt. The Legion had a purpose and strength and didn't pretend it was something it wasn't like the others.
 

fornever1

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May 20, 2013
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why not join the legion? they have everything a wasteland survivor needs:
shiny coins (even shinier then bottle caps)
less rights (always a plus)
less technology (medical equipment? who needs it!)
a government that will collapse without its top two leaders (but there's no way they could die right?)
crucifixions (nice family event)
most of the characters you like will be kill/ made into slave( who needs them right?)
slavery (who needs dating when you can buy a wife?)

JOIN THE LEGION TODAY!(not that you'll have a choice....)
 

Alduin Silas

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Aug 3, 2011
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CharrHearted said:
Join a faction? .... Hahahahaha.. JOIN A FACTION?! HAHAHAHAHA!



Ha...haha...Ha...

Since every single group is corrupt, the only way I sought to put the world right was the complete annihilation of them all and enforce the mojave the right way, my way :3

Sounds a bit egotistical, But there WASN'T another choice for me. They all had to die...

.... oh yes and ofcourse to see this bit of juicy action...


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
I will admit that my first two plsythroughs were Mr House and Independent, in that order, and having played both to the end, side quests aside, I really don't like Yes-Man. Sure, the idea of ruling the Mojave sounds cool, but Yes-Man's comment about reprogramming suggests that Mr House had more than a couple Plan B's. This is the guy who sent the player a venomous obituary after he had died, so keeping a "take-over and control" fallback in the securitrons sounds extremely likely, and I doubt any Courier could withstand an entire army of Securitrons.

Suffice it to say, I'd prefer House. NCR, as has already been talked about, are stretched far too thin, I was too inwardly moral to go with Legion, and Yes-Man gave me goosebumps. At least House could be trusted to act humanly.
 

Mert Matthews

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Feb 12, 2012
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I will admit that my first two plsythroughs were Mr House and Independent, in that order, and having played both to the end, side quests aside, I really don't like Yes-Man. Sure, the idea of ruling the Mojave sounds cool, but Yes-Man's comment about reprogramming suggests that Mr House had more than a couple Plan B's. This is the guy who sent the player a venomous obituary after he had died, so keeping a "take-over and control" fallback in the securitrons sounds extremely likely, and I doubt any Courier could withstand an entire army of Securitrons.

Suffice it to say, I'd prefer House. NCR, as has already been talked about, are stretched far too thin, I was too inwardly moral to go with Legion, and Yes-Man gave me goosebumps. At least House could be trusted to act humanly.[/quote]
Alduin Silas said:
CharrHearted said:
Join a faction? .... Hahahahaha.. JOIN A FACTION?! HAHAHAHAHA!



Ha...haha...Ha...

Since every single group is corrupt, the only way I sought to put the world right was the complete annihilation of them all and enforce the mojave the right way, my way :3

Sounds a bit egotistical, But there WASN'T another choice for me. They all had to die...

.... oh yes and ofcourse to see this bit of juicy action...


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
I will admit that my first two plsythroughs were Mr House and Independent, in that order, and having played both to the end, side quests aside, I really don't like Yes-Man. Sure, the idea of ruling the Mojave sounds cool, but Yes-Man's comment about reprogramming suggests that Mr House had more than a couple Plan B's. This is the guy who sent the player a venomous obituary after he had died, so keeping a "take-over and control" fallback in the securitrons sounds extremely likely, and I doubt any Courier could withstand an entire army of Securitrons.

Suffice it to say, I'd prefer House. NCR, as has already been talked about, are stretched far too thin, I was too inwardly moral to go with Legion, and Yes-Man gave me goosebumps. At least House could be trusted to act humanly.
You see, Securitrons are machines and so are the power armors. Which both have 1 fatal flaw, they are weak against EMP. By that i am talking about Elijah's advanced LAER, seriously, at my first play through the main reason i didn't join Mr. House was because i know those kind of people and the moment they are done with you they will kill you. UNTILL I found the weapon that 1-2 shots securitrons and anything that wears metals with LAER. So that is pretty much the security, when that is done there is simply no reason not to join Mr. House.

NCR, inefficient democratic cretins also wasn't the democracy what caused the fallout?

Legion, nice dresses but no tech, no Courier. Seriously though lets say Legion did defeat NCR then what? What is it going to do against BoS of Midwest? or against anyone with some decent tech? Or simply if ceasar dies?

Yes-man, supposed to be courier takes over or atleast thats what i understood but nope, its anarchy. We know how good that sounds right?
 

Alduin Silas

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Aug 3, 2011
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Mert Matthews said:
Alduin Silas said:
CharrHearted said:
Join a faction? .... Hahahahaha.. JOIN A FACTION?! HAHAHAHAHA!



Ha...haha...Ha...

Since every single group is corrupt, the only way I sought to put the world right was the complete annihilation of them all and enforce the mojave the right way, my way :3

Sounds a bit egotistical, But there WASN'T another choice for me. They all had to die...

.... oh yes and ofcourse to see this bit of juicy action...


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
I will admit that my first two plsythroughs were Mr House and Independent, in that order, and having played both to the end, side quests aside, I really don't like Yes-Man. Sure, the idea of ruling the Mojave sounds cool, but Yes-Man's comment about reprogramming suggests that Mr House had more than a couple Plan B's. This is the guy who sent the player a venomous obituary after he had died, so keeping a "take-over and control" fallback in the securitrons sounds extremely likely, and I doubt any Courier could withstand an entire army of Securitrons.

Suffice it to say, I'd prefer House. NCR, as has already been talked about, are stretched far too thin, I was too inwardly moral to go with Legion, and Yes-Man gave me goosebumps. At least House could be trusted to act humanly.
You see, Securitrons are machines and so are the power armors. Which both have 1 fatal flaw, they are weak against EMP. By that i am talking about Elijah's advanced LAER, seriously, at my first play through the main reason i didn't join Mr. House was because i know those kind of people and the moment they are done with you they will kill you. UNTILL I found the weapon that 1-2 shots securitrons and anything that wears metals with LAER. So that is pretty much the security, when that is done there is simply no reason not to join Mr. House.

NCR, inefficient democratic cretins also wasn't the democracy what caused the fallout?

Legion, nice dresses but no tech, no Courier. Seriously though lets say Legion did defeat NCR then what? What is it going to do against BoS of Midwest? or against anyone with some decent tech? Or simply if ceasar dies?

Yes-man, supposed to be courier takes over or atleast thats what i understood but nope, its anarchy. We know how good that sounds right?
I never got any of the DLC for the game, like Kurtjmac I prefer to the vanilla versions of everything, so I didn't get hold of the super-tech like the LAER, which is probably reason 1 I distrusted the Securitrons more, even though I had the AM Rifle and was quite good with it. But yes, unless you power grind everything to improve NCR's worth, it was always Mr House for me.
 

Xakk Zeliff

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Mar 21, 2012
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It's simple. You join up with Caesar's legion if you want to kill the most people. It makes sense from a gameplay perspective; if you want to play it like a linear video game, running through levels like a genocidal cloud of ammunition, Caesar has work for you. His missions mostly play out like a standard shooter: sending you into enemy bases to murder everyone you see. Even the ones not given by Caesar directly end almost uniformly in bunches of murder. Anyone Caesar doesn't want to murder, possibly excluding one faction, he is already working with, or has no interest in. That's why Caesar's story is the shortest in the game. Meanwhile the end battle is much longer, for double your slaughtering pleasure. Not to mention that when siding with legion, eventually a good portion of the Mojave becomes hostile. If you see everything in the game as a test of how well you can cause them to die, you should pick Caesar.
The real question is why there wasn't a proper neutral ending, with you fighting off both sides, instead of playing through the 'good' final battle with a different ending. I'm sure House could have dreamed up some ace in the hole to give you an unfair advantage against all the forces at the dam, in true style, leaving you to power through it in Wild Card in whatever fashion you can come up with.
 

Mycroft Holmes

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Sep 26, 2011
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Ultratwinkie said:
Even if they did, there is no oil left in the world anymore. There is nothing to fight over.
You've completely missed the central theme of Fallout. There is always something to fight over; because war never changes.

It may have been the oil just prior to the apocalypse but now it is who controls New Reno, it is the water in Baja, it is the horded technology of the old world, it is Hoover Dam. The NCR just happens to be the best at taking those resources and squashing anyone who gets in their way. And they will go to any lengths to achieve their ends; just like the old world did with their bombs.
 

Mycroft Holmes

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Sep 26, 2011
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Ultratwinkie said:
Here's the thing:

:words:
Here's the thing,

You're wrong.

Gecks are not replicators, they are a series of tools and instructions.

Chris Avellone said:
The GECK isn't really a replicator. It contains a fertilizer system, with a variety of food seeds, soil supplements, and chemicals that could fertilize arid wasteland (and possibly selected sections of the moon's surface pre-conditioned to accept the GECK) into supporting farming. The GECK is intended to be "disassembled" over the course of its use to help build communities (for example, the cold fusion power source is intended to be used for main city power production), and so on. Anything else people needed, they could simply consult the How-To Books/Library of Congress/Encyclopedias in the GECK holodisk library for more knowledge. The pen flashlight was just a bonus.
And the vending machines of the Sierra Madre required energy from fissile materials as well as matter to transform. It does not magically make everything free. The casino chips contain fissile elements(plutonium or uranium) as well as metal. There is a limited amount of fissile materials in the world and they are already in heavy use in various sectors including already being used in the creation of energy at nuclear power plants.

All you would have accomplished is trading one energy resource being contested for another energy resource. And that is supposed to bring about the end of resource wars how exactly? Call off the oil wars guys. Begin the plutonium wars. The Sierra Madre vending machines were just the heralding of a new wave of manufacturing techniques. They would never have solved any of the actual problems for the old world.

Too bad somebody didn't bother to actually play Dead Money and learn how the chips work from Christine. Just completely ignore the actual game lore and insert your own ideas without paying attention. I guess "hipsters" will just come up with their own unsupported theories and then outright lie to convince themselves they are correct.
 

StormShaun

The Basement has been unleashed!
Feb 1, 2009
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Reasons to join the Legion?
Other then to kill em' ... nup.

Okay now that is out of the way. I can think of some reasons.

- They like being evil and doing evil things.
- They liked the Roman way of life.
- They like the benefits of the faction.
- They liked how they did things.
- Etc other personal reasons.

For me ... HELL NAW.
He he.
I went NCR all the way (But I decided in my own back-story that my guy controls them due to owning the Lucky 38 and an army of robots)
I mean I didn't like independent and I especially didn't like the Legion.

BUT yeah I do see what you mean that they like the "Bad guys" and NCR the "Good guys".
I mean I'm sure there are "good" Legion and definitely "bad" NCR.
Though we know that Fallout 3/NV takes a white/Black (With a tiny bit of gray) morality system.
 

Mycroft Holmes

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Ultratwinkie said:
Did I fucking say anything about Gecks? No, I didn't. I said the "hope" crap that plagued Fallout 3 didn't fit fallout or anything. At least fucking read the posts before you go off on crap.
↑
meet
↓

Ultratwinkie said:
Replicators were very common in Fallout. You could make ANYTHING you could ever want from food, to weapons, to construction materials, to replacement parts. Each GECK has one.
You've very prone to making shit up about fallout.

Ultratwinkie said:
And lastly, nuclear can use thorium. A very plentiful resource.
Just as you are to making shit up about everything else apparently. The IAEA is the foremost source of information on nuclear material and they admit they have basically very little actual knowledge about how much Thorium there is.

Do you have your own secret private team of investigators running around the world checking out mineral deposits and never passing that information on to anyone else? Or do you just make up everything up as you go with the hopes that no one will cross check your information?

Ultratwinkie said:
On top of this, vaults were implied to have replicators too.
Big fucking citation needed for a completely baseless claim.

They have lists of supplies mentioned being put into the vaults, supplies they would have no need of if they could magically make things out of thin air. But they couldn't. That's why the Vault Dweller didn't walk up to the non-existent replicator and say "new water chip please!" Because vaults did not have replicator technology.

Ultratwinkie said:
Replicators need energy, it doesn't say from where.
Yeah, so bring on the fissile material wars.

Ultratwinkie said:
If you have energy, then you have unlimited access to stuff like food, medicine, ammo, and anything you can think of.
Yeah... sure you do, if you're going to violate the laws of thermodynamics and ignore the geological realities of Earth.
 

Gergar12_v1legacy

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Aug 17, 2012
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Ultratwinkie said:
Gergar12 said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Well the faction may appeal to historical nuts, the kind of people who want to start from the beginning.

The NCR, with all their tech and ideals, don't actually know what that entails and how logistics are important. Its like a toddler trying to build a giant death bot. While impressive, there is a lot that can go wrong.

The Van Buren documents paint the NCR in the Mojave as a shadow, a faction that grew too fast without fortifying anything. Since their hold on land was weak, they lost contact with the rest of the NCR.

The NCR in New vegas follow in spirit, but not extactly.


They follow old world ideas, but lack the world that actually made it possible. The NCR has no standardization, which is a negative for modern warfare. Lack of standardization has no bearing on melee warfare, which the legion uses, and is actually a good thing.

Without the factories, and without infrastructure those ideals fail. The NCR needs the standardization of the old world armies to compete.

They need standard training. Standard armor. Standard weapons. The NCR lacks the ability to do any of that on an actual scale. Standardization makes warfare with guns much easier, but the good stuff is held for absolute last.

Ever wonder why the first recon, the best sniper unit in the NCR, use hunting rifles that are falling apart? Which is a WWII-esque technology, when the real old world used semi auto snipers and powerful .50 cals? Because the NCR's equipment is actually limited. First recon even says its because hunting rifles are common to the farmland they pluck the soldiers from. They didn't even bother to give them anything better.

The first recon should have .50 caliber snipers if the NCR knew what the hell it as doing and followed old world mentalities.

They even use T-45d power armor as their "shock troopers." This armor was horrible, even by old world standards. It chewed through energy cells like, as one soldier put it, "chans in a rice buffet." Run out of energy, and you were trapped in your own armor. The real game changer was the T-51b, which is nowhere to be found in the NCR even though it was common in California, and they got a metric fuck ton of suits from the war with the brotherhood. California has the most military bases of any state in the Union as well, enough to field a large army. The NCR has little excuse outside of laziness to not outfit their troops beyond what they bring when they fucking enlist.

The old world nations built up their nations. Their military, culture, and infrastructure. The NCR did none of it when expanding. They would grab a toddler with a spork and spend him out to fight if they could. Armies need investment.

The NCR has little defensible infrastructure.

The NCR has general custard to World War I to 1700s era level military style. They are all over the place and it shows. The NCR lose men every day and have very few to replace them, they don't have the luxury of a meat grinder from the 1700s that kills a lot of their troops. The 1700s was a time of non standardized guns, and huge casualties but this was a time when human population was booming by untold numbers. Everything was going right for humanity at the time, but not in Fallout's world were water isn't even guaranteed. The NCR are getting way ahead of themselves. They don't have the standardization, training, entrenchment, or coordination to pull off WWI-WWII military strategies either. They sure as hell don't have any of the requirements for modern warfare tactics. Their entire military and its leadership is one big joke.

The NCR has no actual end game, or actual strategy beyond a primitive form of imperialism. Sure they get the hoover, but what next? They have water and power yet they don't even bother to entrench their position for over 4 years? What the hell is NCR thinking to NOT entrench the hell out of the dam with everything they got? The dam provides water and power for the majority of the entire west coast. That is a HUGE benefit that should be protected at all costs.

The NCR wants it all without the work the old world required. If they actually did actually open their purse and invest, the legion wouldn't stand a chance when they are sniped by master snipers with actual equipment, face shock troopers with actual power armor, bombed with the NCR's vertibird airforce, and bombarded with artillery. A little work, and NCR's problems would all go away, but instead they send the good stuff to protect a bunch of cows in California.

On the other hand, the legion and house are focused strong men governments and those always fail when the leader inevitably dies. Their progress is lost because an incredibly centralized government runs that risk when all the power lands on a single man with a cult of personality.

So its either young upstarts who have no actual idea of what made the old world ideas work in the first place, or two strong men governments that won't last a single human generation. That's what it all boils down to. The only up side is that the legion is a bit more realistic in its expectations in regards to its world. It knows its a crude government for a crude world, and doesn't try to bullshit you into thinking its America 2.0.
I disagree, the NCR is not the best it can be, but some of the things you wrote are wrong.

1. The NCR did entrench, that's why there are snipers, and rangers are the river that snipe boats, and various anger depots.

2.the m24 bolt action preferred by snipers who don't like semti because of better accuracy given by bolt actions fires similar rounds to the hunting rifle.

3. 50cals are used, along with brush guns by the veteran rangers who are the true snipers

4. They have do somewhat of a standard troopers are armed with m16 like rifles, and trooper armor. Rangers are armed with .357 repeaters, and ranger armor. The recons are armed with hunting rifles, and their armor.

5. Van burden was not released, and it was non canon.

6. Power armor needs training etc.

7. The gunrunners are an infrastructure, which supply guns to the NCR, and does not need to be defended.

8. The fact that the legion even uses melee weapons is enough of a drawback, that even if they don't have standard melee weapons, they are going to get killed easily.

9. The NCR did not lose contact with the west they still have long 81 , which in my version is still there.

10. The NCR back west have a high population you also make it soild like they are fighting a equal faction, but you are wrong the NCR are stronger in almost every way to the legion, their manpower can be drawn from both gouls, and humans along with the fact that they have many settlements under their control along with most of California.

The best faction in fallout would have to be the Midwestern branch of the brotherhood of steel, and if they combined with the east, they would be unstoppable. They have lots of manpower ie humans gouls, deathclaws, robots, super mutants. Their culture is growing as a accepting all people culture, and they have lots of technology at hand, keep in mind this is the best ending for them.
1. If the NCR entrenched, there would be bunkers. Tossing around a couple sandbags and makeshift walls is not an entrenchment. Even sloan says entrenchment is new and stifled because of the deathclaws at quarry junction.

2. The DKS-501 model sniper rifle is the legendary standard for sniping for Fallout's universe. It is unparalleled, even with the older models. There is no "bolt action is better" especially when they use the same caliber. Since the hunting rifle is made post war and misaligned, there is little reason to use the hunting rifle when the DKS-501 is available.

3. Rangers, not troopers. The rangers are not the main branch of the military. In fact, they are their own faction that is alongside the NCR army.

4. No, their rifles are semi autos and cheaply made trash. Their armor is not much better. Even Chief Hanlon talks about how the NCR doesn't standardize every soldier. They get what they can get.

5. New Vegas was based on Van Buren designed documents. NCR being in a bind is canon. I said this in the damn post, at least read through the fucking thing.

6. The NCR have trained engineers repairing a fucking dam and building structures. The NCR has training, and its been shown they KNOW the secret to power armor.

7. The gun runners don't factor into shit when the NCR pays the lowest bidder for its supplies. Since its been established the routes are completely fucked, no they cannot defend themselves.

8. The NCR use low caliber weapons as standard, and route the moment they see a legionary. The Legion is winning for a reason, because the NCR doesn't want to shell out for a real military.

9. I was explaining the stuff they based the NCR on. Are you even fucking reading this or mouthing off on shit you don't even understand? Its clear as fucking day, Ill even bold it for you. See the fucking difference? IN VAN BUREN AND IN NEW VEGAS? It explains the developer's train of fucking thought.

10. No they don't, they are drafting people to stop the drop of experienced troops. The divide wiped out a whole shit ton of support for the Mojave alone. The NCR's Mojave army is a bunch of conscripts with little training, and rushed into service. Their officers are a bunch of dumb asses. Their equipment is crap and not standard. The actual units are stuck in California and Baja chasing small time bandits because the brass was being spiteful to each other and took it out on the troops.

The NCR is by no means the strongest. They are a shell of the country they were in Fallout 2, and a lot of the Tandi era laws were over turned.
1. It is in fallout world, and good enough to stop Zerg rushing recruits which a plenty in the game.

2. But the sniper rifle has less health, and les damage for more dps while the hunting rifle has more Dmg while less dps. Hunting rifle also fire 1495 shots before breaking vs 395 shots, and are more common. Some NCR troops do have the sniper rifle, but the hunting rifle was made for desert combat with its higher reliability, and it also has a lower price.

3. Rangers are a NCR diversion and special forces also they carry very good weapons, and all can shoot very well.

4. They are still better than the legion recruit weapons some of which are.357 pistols, and machetes, and the armor is also better than legion recruit armor.

5. Based so what it's still another game with another plot. It also says the burned man aka hanged man was a psychic murderer what's your point. I aso never say the NCR weren't blind stop putting crap in my words, but I say they were less blind, and more standard than the legion which is good seeing how the legion does nothing but Zerg charges, and killing off towns.

6. The engineered are where they should be, and power armor is limited, and most of it is still in brotherhood hands, and the t51bs are back west.

7. But the 2nd recon do buy its weapons for them, and the gun runners are an NCR supply line. The NCR also supply lines also don't require troopes to guard.it even says in the wiki the NCR source of engery weapons, and ammo come from vault city, and the gun runners who can defend themselves.

8. .556 NATO is not small, and they don't route give me proof where did it said on the wiki they route.

9. The train of through seems to destroyed by fact that the ncr are still supplyed by the long81, so saying the NCR lost contract is a childish way of putting it.

10. The NCR are still in control of vault city, redding, shady sands, boneyard, Baja, bullhead city, and most of the core region.

No the NCR is not the strongest I never say it was did you even read what I say about the fucking Midwest branch of the brotherhood of steel, but it is stronger than the legion, and is the largest known military force in post nuclear America. Also the NCR also can draw its strength from the fact that people think its better vs the legion, and won't die in when its leader dies. Also the NCR was able to 1700 charge the brotherhood of steel, and win purly based on numbers.







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