Nintendo Loses Lawsuit Against DS Flash Cards

[Royas]

In the end, though, I stand by my opinion. If I pay for the console (a piece of hardware) it's just like paying for a car. It's mine, and I can do with it as I please.

That's such a bullshit analogy.

Just because you own the DS does not give you the right to steal. Owning a car doesn't mean you can drive at 70 in a residential area. You can't legally use a computer to download child pornography. You can't use a DVD player to play fiiiiingers. Owning something entitles you to nothing but the ownership of the product. Sure, you can do things with it that it wasn't intended for.

That fact, however, will not make you right, legally or morally, in what you do. Just self-righteous.

Fancy that.

Who the hell is doing anything illegal? I didn't once mention doing anything illegal, immoral or otherwise inappropriate, that's all you. I flat out don't do illegal things as a rule. I don't pirate software, I don't steal from stores, I tend to be about as straight and narrow as you can find. That doesn't change the fact that Nintendo has no right to control what I do with a DS I purchased, it's HARDWARE! I own it, period.

That does not mean I can legally pirate software, I never once said that. There are already laws regarding that on the books, they can come after me with those laws if I pirate. What they shouldn't be able to do is perform a preemptive strike. I'm sure these cartridges are mostly used for pirating, of that I have no doubt. But the fact that there are legal uses for them (homebrew software and yes, software that Nintendo disapproves of) means that they shouldn't be controlled. That's like saying that since I can pirate movies with my DVD burner, they should be illegal. That argument didn't get too far when Hollywood used it about videotapes, this is no different.

For the record, I disapprove of piracy except in cases where it's necessary to get a game to work (no cd cracks when dealing with faulty DRM) or when a property owner has abandoned an IP for an extended time and it just isn't available elsewhere. I don't pirate myself. I'll admit to having done so in the past (like the 80's, on floppy disks) but not since then. I don't have any pirated games in my possession (well, might be a couple of those floppies around still, but good luck finding a system to play 'em).

And what the hell does it mean, using a DVD player to play fiiiiiingers? Can't say I've ever heard of that.

 

[chronobreak]

Who the hell is doing anything illegal? I didn't once mention doing anything illegal, immoral or otherwise inappropriate, that's all you. I flat out don't do illegal things as a rule. I don't pirate software, I don't steal from stores, I tend to be about as straight and narrow as you can find. That doesn't change the fact that Nintendo has no right to control what I do with a DS I purchased, it's HARDWARE! I own it, period.

That does not mean I can legally pirate software, I never once said that. There are already laws regarding that on the books, they can come after me with those laws if I pirate. What they shouldn't be able to do is perform a preemptive strike. I'm sure these cartridges are mostly used for pirating, of that I have no doubt. But the fact that there are legal uses for them (homebrew software and yes, software that Nintendo disapproves of) means that they shouldn't be controlled. That's like saying that since I can pirate movies with my DVD burner, they should be illegal. That argument didn't get too far when Hollywood used it about videotapes, this is no different.

For the record, I disapprove of piracy except in cases where it's necessary to get a game to work (no cd cracks when dealing with faulty DRM) or when a property owner has abandoned an IP for an extended time and it just isn't available elsewhere. I don't pirate myself. I'll admit to having done so in the past (like the 80's, on floppy disks) but not since then. I don't have any pirated games in my possession (well, might be a couple of those floppies around still, but good luck finding a system to play 'em).

And what the hell does it mean, using a DVD player to play fiiiiiingers? Can't say I've ever heard of that.

In the context of the discussion within this thread, there is no need to ask when anyone said anything about illegal activity. Due to the fact that a lot of people use them for illegal purposes, of course any discussion of Flash Cards is going to involve that discussion. I don't think Flos was pointing a finger at you, specifically, in his previous statement when saying "you".

If your argument hinges on "But the fact that there are legal uses for them (homebrew software and yes, software that Nintendo disapproves of) means that they shouldn't be controlled", then I would disagree. What about alcohol? There is a legal use for it, but it is controlled. Any drug on the market is controlled by the FDA. Guns have a legal use, they are controlled, and so on. I hate going back and forth with analogies, but I had to point that out.

 

[Royas]

Who the hell is doing anything illegal? I didn't once mention doing anything illegal, immoral or otherwise inappropriate, that's all you. I flat out don't do illegal things as a rule. I don't pirate software, I don't steal from stores, I tend to be about as straight and narrow as you can find. That doesn't change the fact that Nintendo has no right to control what I do with a DS I purchased, it's HARDWARE! I own it, period.

That does not mean I can legally pirate software, I never once said that. There are already laws regarding that on the books, they can come after me with those laws if I pirate. What they shouldn't be able to do is perform a preemptive strike. I'm sure these cartridges are mostly used for pirating, of that I have no doubt. But the fact that there are legal uses for them (homebrew software and yes, software that Nintendo disapproves of) means that they shouldn't be controlled. That's like saying that since I can pirate movies with my DVD burner, they should be illegal. That argument didn't get too far when Hollywood used it about videotapes, this is no different.

For the record, I disapprove of piracy except in cases where it's necessary to get a game to work (no cd cracks when dealing with faulty DRM) or when a property owner has abandoned an IP for an extended time and it just isn't available elsewhere. I don't pirate myself. I'll admit to having done so in the past (like the 80's, on floppy disks) but not since then. I don't have any pirated games in my possession (well, might be a couple of those floppies around still, but good luck finding a system to play 'em).

And what the hell does it mean, using a DVD player to play fiiiiiingers? Can't say I've ever heard of that.

In the context of the discussion within this thread, there is no need to ask when anyone said anything about illegal activity. Due to the fact that a lot of people use them for illegal purposes, of course any discussion of Flash Cards is going to involve that discussion. I don't think Flos was pointing a finger at you, specifically, in his previous statement when saying "you".

If your argument hinges on "But the fact that there are legal uses for them (homebrew software and yes, software that Nintendo disapproves of) means that they shouldn't be controlled", then I would disagree. What about alcohol? There is a legal use for it, but it is controlled. Any drug on the market is controlled by the FDA. Guns have a legal use, they are controlled, and so on. I hate going back and forth with analogies, but I had to point that out.

You're probably right about it not being a direct accusation, I'm a little sensitive about that. In previous discussions of this nature I've been flat out accused of theft, and I think I have a knee-jerk defensiveness about it now.

Moving on to your analogies, I'd mention one flaw with them. All of the items you mentioned (and I'll add cars to that list) are potentially physically dangerous to the user or to the public. Alcohol leads to drunk driving and deaths. Drugs have side effects and can cause deaths. Guns, obviously, can cause deaths, that's sort of what they do (and some would argue against controlling them, but that's not for this thread). Flash cartridges, not so much so. These things can only cause harm, maybe, to the bottom line of a corporation. They pose no physical danger.

So, no real reason for the government to allow Nintendo to control them. This is still much more like the original issues the Hollywood studios had with VCR's when they first appeared on the scene. There's a direct correlation here, even most of the arguments are the same. Consumer rights won in that fight, but the climate has changed. I'm very concerned that if the VCR came out today, it would end up illegal. Consumer rights should trump the rights of a corporation, IMO.

 

[chronobreak]

Moving on to your analogies, I'd mention one flaw with them. All of the items you mentioned (and I'll add cars to that list) are potentially physically dangerous to the user or to the public. Alcohol leads to drunk driving and deaths. Drugs have side effects and can cause deaths. Guns, obviously, can cause deaths, that's sort of what they do (and some would argue against controlling them, but that's not for this thread). Flash cartridges, not so much so. These things can only cause harm, maybe, to the bottom line of a corporation. They pose no physical danger.

To me, anything that affects ones livelyhood is a physical danger to those who wish to persue that craft. This may be where we differ.

 

[Amnestic]

Moving on to your analogies, I'd mention one flaw with them. All of the items you mentioned (and I'll add cars to that list) are potentially physically dangerous to the user or to the public. Alcohol leads to drunk driving and deaths. Drugs have side effects and can cause deaths. Guns, obviously, can cause deaths, that's sort of what they do (and some would argue against controlling them, but that's not for this thread). Flash cartridges, not so much so. These things can only cause harm, maybe, to the bottom line of a corporation. They pose no physical danger.

To me, anything that affects ones livelyhood is a physical danger to those who wish to persue that craft. This may be where we differ.

I'm sure those Flash Card vendors are rolling around in the cash while Nintendo is struggling to scrape by, right?

You're affecting the Flash Card makers livelihoods by putting injunctions against them, no?

 

[Cyberjester]

I think English is fairly structured in comparison to my native language: Dutch. I'm glad I already speak it, because when I think about it, it's one heck of a ***** to learn... It's one big bulk of exceptions to rules.
Yeah, English and German sound harsh compared to French, but personnaly I think a language should be useful, and not overly decorative...
Hmm... I thought Russian used letters, only different ones, like how Greek uses alpha, beta, etc.

Really? Huh.. I'd always seen English as the thrown-together language and others as superior as they aren't English. Haven't tried Dutch though, so my bias could be false.

Useful is ok, but if you're going to use it constantly it'd be nice for it to sound less jarring.

Russian does use letters, just not abc... etc.

 

[Royas]

Moving on to your analogies, I'd mention one flaw with them. All of the items you mentioned (and I'll add cars to that list) are potentially physically dangerous to the user or to the public. Alcohol leads to drunk driving and deaths. Drugs have side effects and can cause deaths. Guns, obviously, can cause deaths, that's sort of what they do (and some would argue against controlling them, but that's not for this thread). Flash cartridges, not so much so. These things can only cause harm, maybe, to the bottom line of a corporation. They pose no physical danger.

To me, anything that affects ones livelyhood is a physical danger to those who wish to persue that craft. This may be where we differ.

I see where you are coming from, but in this case it's the type of danger that differs. Cars, guns, booze, drugs... these can actually cause real physical harm or death. These cards, that's just financial harm. It's serious, yes, but there's no blood, no pain, no dying. Most legal systems have always treated financial damage as being less severe than physical damage, and for good reason.

My view in this case is just that the rights of consumers should trump the possibility of financial damage to a corporation. Flash cards MIGHT harm Nintendo, banning things willy-nilly WILL harm consumers and the marketplace.

 

[Gindil]

If your argument hinges on "But the fact that there are legal uses for them (homebrew software and yes, software that Nintendo disapproves of) means that they shouldn't be controlled", then I would disagree. What about alcohol? There is a legal use for it, but it is controlled. Any drug on the market is controlled by the FDA. Guns have a legal use, they are controlled, and so on. I hate going back and forth with analogies, but I had to point that out.

Flash cards are used for pictures, small videos, and even software. Should we allow Nintendo to control so much more of the market because of what could happen? That's essentially what the argument boils down to. There's going to be a black market for products, no matter the industry. Just as there are places to find guns in Washington DC, so too can people find pirated software if they look hard enough. The main thing I would say is not control. Rather, Nintendo should make their products more valuable. You want the game? Fine. A few demos on Flash Cards. You want a preview of the first level? Okay, we can do that. Now we have the game come out. But wait, we also have a collector's edition! It has papers and things you can't get anywhere else! But it's priced a little more! You're a fan right? You want this game! You want the mythos behind it.

That would be far better than taking someone to court for whatever.