Nintendo Loses Lawsuit Against DS Flash Cards

[pantsoffdanceoff]

Does this justify owning a flash card then? Will the internet community still frown (apart from some sites) upon these tools for open source and by extension, piracy?

It justifies owning a flashcard as long as it is not used for piracy in the exact same way you are not restricted from using a computer as long as you don't pirate on that.

I like this ruling, I'm definitely one for consumer rights.

 

[MissAshley]

I'm reading many great points on both ends here, but I've yet to find this:

"Unregulated content" running through Windows doesn't have the same propensity for marring the public image of that product as it does for video game hardware. Same goes for aftermarket parts in automobiles. And again for, say, homemade movies turning off viewers to the DVD player with which it is played.

I'm likely missing something, but I can't think of a single product relationship which mirrors that between video game consoles and their available software. The closest ones that come to mind are other products with a single pairing of hardware and software with varying content, like many Leap Frog products. If the industry contained one and only one video game format, with consoles supporting it manufactured by many different companies, much like DVD or MP3 players, then I could see an issue with a single manufacturer of a line of that hardware attempting to control the accompanying media.

My point: Video game consoles and video game software represent a unique entry in the entertainment sector, with a unique relationship between its hardware and respective software. I feel to attempt to use other relationships between products, whether from the entertainment sector or not, as a means of supporting this court's decision is folly.

 

[Gindil]

I haven't read the Nintendo DS' EULA, but is it against the ToS to use a third party card?

I doubt it, if it was, they'd have easily won the Lawsuit, right?

This is just off the DSi's EULA but it's safe to say there is probably something similar in the other DS EULA's:

Your Nintendo DSi System and the Nintendo DSi Service are not designed for use with unauthorized software, services, or devices or non-licensed accessories, and you may not use any of these with your Nintendo DSi System or the Nintendo DSi Service. Such use may be illegal, voids any warranty, and is a breach of this agreement.

source: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/dsi/en_la/EULA.jsp

And again I side with Nintendo on this. Yes I understand that people want to do homebrew development, but there comes a time where you just have to let it go. It's not like Nintendo has pulled this percieved "dick move" all of the time, after all. Despite it being company policy to crush emulation they haven't done a single thing about all the third-party emulators and ROMs floating about the Internet.

Incorrect. They've always been pretty harsh with their EULA. Same goes for any major gaming company. What comes to mind is when Sony sued Bleemix out of existence as well as Nintendo's constant fights over the game genie back in the day. Hearing them fight over third party is nothing new.

I side with the consumers rights group. You should be able to use what you want for it. It just won't be covered by Nintendo for damages. Actively having Nintendo, or Microsoft, or whomever, come out and destroy the competition IS in fact, anticompetitive. That's probably why France ruled the way they did.

Piracy

Give me something that says this will promote piracy. Otherwise, I continue to see people buying new games and new systems all the time. Any arguments saying "Wow, piracy got a boost" is completely missing the point, IMO.

And on another note: (and to not have to write a novel) It is my console. I bought it, its mine and there is nothing they can do about it... well they can ban me from their services but that is pretty much it. saying I can't use non-licensed hardware (or software for that matter) is like saying that I can't dip my chicken in ice-cream if I felt like it. It might not be a good idea (taste horrible I imagine) but the choice -and mistake- is mine to make.

All due respect, but with EULA's nowadays, you bought a license. Meaning either A) the hardware is yours but they still have control of the software or B) Nintendo still owns it but you get to use it temporarily.

Basically, I don't know one game company that doesn't give you a license to use their product.

 

[Jared]

Trust the French to rule on something like this. However, I for once have to aggre with them. It gives a more open market, which for the consumer is a great thing.

I wonder how this will do for Microsoft's little campaign now...

 

[Jennacide]

This is a surprise.
I know Nintendo has been fiercly trying to hunt down the makers of the R4 card and this is indeed a turn of events. Wow.

I recall back in the 80's when Nintendo had complete control of all hardware released for their system - even to the point that they could impose rules of how many games per year would be allowed to be released from a company.

I guess Nintendo is finally losing it.

And you do realize how insanely corrupt those policies were, right? This thread is polluted with the vabid insanity of fanboys. This is a good thing, but the the Nintendo fans only see it as 'supporting piracy.' Yeah, cause flash carts were for piracy only. Not for people with homebrew, or consolidating thier massive game library onto a single cart, or emulating old NES/SNES games they rightfully own. Nope, just low down evil pirates.

God stupidity is so pandemic now.

Yes clearly it's fanboyism to suggest that companies have the right to protect their own hardware and software. Apparently nobody has a problem with Sony constantly devising whatever ways they can to defeat third-party firmware on the PSP, nobody has a problem with Microsoft banning Xbox Live users that modded their consoles (a clear violation of the TOS and EULA which the usage of an R4 is in terms of the DS) but as soon as someone supports Nintendo for wanting to outlaw R4s, oh shit, suddenly it's a problem. Cry some more; your pseudo-intellectual bullshit amuses me.

What are you talking about? Nobody supports Sony's constant firmware updates on the PSP, or the nearly criminal way they force it on thier consumers by attaching it to major game releases, bricking any PSP with cracked firmware.

 

[Pendragon9]

As long as it prevents gaming from being a monopoly, I say go French!

We don't need 2 or 3 people controlling everything there is. So I personally think this works nicely.

if Nintendo wants to make a fuss, make it a violation of warranty to not use their stuff. There, problem solved.

 

[Cyberjester]

In other news, I'm the Queen of Sheba. From now on I expect to be adressed as "Your Majesty" or "Your Highness."

On the topic of French and royalty, they invented a lovely device for removing the latter which they used to great effect during a few bloody months.. Your Majesty, le Guillotine awaits. =P

Sorry, fascination with French and their interesting cleanse. lol



Back on topic, the really interesting part of this is, will the French stop Apple from locking down their hardware? Since western law is based on precedence.

 

[Cyberjester]

As long as it prevents gaming from being a monopoly, I say go French!

We don't need 2 or 3 people controlling everything there is. So I personally think this works nicely.

if Nintendo wants to make a fuss, make it a violation of warranty to not use their stuff. There, problem solved.

Wouldn't work. MSFT made it illegal to talk about sexuality on Xbox Live, stated it would result in an instant ban if the user violated that clause. One person went on and on and on and.. Long story short, she was kicked, sued for discrimination, MSFT reinstated her, changed the EULA and I think paid out some monies as well..

Laws mean nothing if you can afford a court case.

 

[Silva]

I applaud the French courts for this decision. It is absolutely time that we stopped letting any company rule over what we put in the equipment we paid for from them. If we hadn't paid for it, then fine. But ownership is ownership. An item is owned by the consumer - that is what a purchase is meant to be about. The rights of the creator of an item should not take precedence over the rights of the owner.

Imagine if the sort of logic being applied in media law now was applied to real estate law - then the banks would decide that they have the right to tell us we can't add an extra room to our houses when we've already paid off the mortgage and hold the deed! There would be lawsuits against swimming pool companies for daring to install a swimming pool on the land behind the house. That is how ridiculous things are right now.

While it's true that the flash drive cartridges are usually used for pirated software, this is not always the case. There are many potential legitimate uses for such hardware, even when it is mounted on a DS. Hardware modding, storage, fully fledged independent software development... These things are badly affected by legislation that locks out the use of any particular device for anything other than what is advertised.

If Nintendo has gained the legal rights to tell us what we can or can't insert into a DS, which we have bought at a large cost, then the situation is simple: the law needs to change.

 

[Cyberjester]

Their console, their rules.

I'm seeing a lot of other examples which don't quite work with the situation. The DS is copyrighted. Tools like hammers are not. Big difference.

The DS is not copyrighted, it's a piece of hardware. Much like a hammer, in fact. Now, some of the firmware might be copyrighted, but a flash card isn't necessarily copying any of their firmware code, just using it.

Once I pay my money for the console, it's no longer their console. It's mine. I paid for it, it's hardware, it's MINE. And, to steal your statement, my console, my rules.

No, afaik, the DS is copyrighted as a piece of hardware. Dual screen being the first and all that.

And no, it's not your console. It belongs to Nintendo, you're merely borrowing it. They release firmware updates, hardware updates, recalls, etc. You've basically bought a license to use the console, nothing more. You used to buy things, now you buy a usage license. Welcome to reality. =P

 

[Cyberjester]

if i where nintendo i'd stop translating major seres games in french as well as stop printing instrution manuels in french. there one of the smaller NU markets.

They translate into French for Canada though, and Canada is a good sized market.

They speak French in Canada? Damn you, you've just made me hate yet another country.

Canada is a bilingual country, speaking both French and English. A relic of the Brits vs French days. As for hating it, well.. You could do a lot worse. *cough* Aus *cough*

 

[Gindil]

if i where nintendo i'd stop translating major seres games in french as well as stop printing instrution manuels in french. there one of the smaller NU markets.

They translate into French for Canada though, and Canada is a good sized market.

They speak French in Canada? Damn you, you've just made me hate yet another country.

Canada is a bilingual country, speaking both French and English. A relic of the Brits vs French days. As for hating it, well.. You could do a lot worse. *cough* Aus *cough*

I thought it was the fact that there was a law saying you HAVE to release a French version so that English doesn't creep up and steal their culture?

 

[Pyotr Romanov]

Canada is a bilingual country, speaking both French and English. A relic of the Brits vs French days. As for hating it, well.. You could do a lot worse. *cough* Aus *cough*

Worse than French? Can't be, it would have been bombed ages ago - by me.

I thought it was the fact that there was a law saying you HAVE to release a French version so that English doesn't creep up and steal their culture?

Wow, that sounds pretty crazy. Way to go, nitpicking? Who cares if the French culture gets destroyed.

Oh god, I'm getting a little extreme. I should say something good about France to liven up the mood...
...
Oh right, they actually started teaching English to this generation! Yay, they've grown some common sense!

 

[Cyberjester]

Worse than French? Can't be, it would have been bombed ages ago - by me.

Worse than banning the top 10 games released this year? =P Granted, half of them have gotten through after severe censoring, but that's still pretty pathetic. Besides, French is to English what cursive is to block writing. And they made alcohol producing an art. =P Aussies made a beer called VB which is quite possibly the worst beer on the planet.. Had one at my 18th. Didn't touch alcohol for the next 3 years.

I thought it was the fact that there was a law saying you HAVE to release a French version so that English doesn't creep up and steal their culture?

Don't think you _have_ to release a product in both languages in Canada. If it's jam or something like that then the labels have to have both languages, but apart from that.. Although it would make sense to include both languages given that Wikipedia has French listed as the mother tongue of 22% of the Canadian population. Financially speaking, another ~7 million potential customers are worth the extra cost involved in adding subtitles, language dubs, etc.

 

[Pyotr Romanov]

French is to English what cursive is to block writing.

Are you saying, like most people, that it's a beautiful language? Oh god, you fell for their trap. School forces me to learn the damn language, and believe me, it's a mess.
Example: Look at the 3rd person plural verb, it ends with -ent, what do you pronounce? A vague -e. 2x l becomes a j. You don't want to know how many times I've heard 'oh no, you don't have to pronounce that one'.

 

[Cyberjester]

French is to English what cursive is to block writing.

Are you saying, like most people, that it's a beautiful language? Oh god, you fell for their trap. School forces me to learn the damn language, and believe me, it's a mess.
Example: Look at the 3rd person plural verb, it ends with -ent, what do you pronounce? A vague -e. 2x l becomes a j. You don't want to know how many times I've heard 'oh no, you don't have to pronounce that one'.

Haha. Yea, but it flows so it sounds nice, and has less harsh sounds compared to English. It's also more structured, if there's a rule, you generally stick to it. English is.. Awful really. No structure to it, for every rule there's several pages of exceptions. It shamelessly borrows from French, German, Latin, Spanish, Italian.. If there's a language, chances are that some words are in English. Or a bastardization of them anyway.

German sounds harsh so it's less likable from an aesthetic point of view, most asian languages are just hieroglyphics. Highly advanced hieroglyphics, but pictograms nonetheless. Polish is insanely complicated, Russian doesn't use letters as far as I'm concerned..

*shrugs* It's a sentimental favorite. =P

 

[Pyotr Romanov]

French is to English what cursive is to block writing.

Are you saying, like most people, that it's a beautiful language? Oh god, you fell for their trap. School forces me to learn the damn language, and believe me, it's a mess.
Example: Look at the 3rd person plural verb, it ends with -ent, what do you pronounce? A vague -e. 2x l becomes a j. You don't want to know how many times I've heard 'oh no, you don't have to pronounce that one'.

Haha. Yea, but it flows so it sounds nice, and has less harsh sounds compared to English. It's also more structured, if there's a rule, you generally stick to it. English is.. Awful really. No structure to it, for every rule there's several pages of exceptions. It shamelessly borrows from French, German, Latin, Spanish, Italian.. If there's a language, chances are that some words are in English. Or a bastardization of them anyway.

German sounds harsh so it's less likable from an aesthetic point of view, most asian languages are just hieroglyphics. Highly advanced hieroglyphics, but pictograms nonetheless. Polish is insanely complicated, Russian doesn't use letters as far as I'm concerned..

*shrugs* It's a sentimental favorite. =P

I think English is fairly structured in comparison to my native language: Dutch. I'm glad I already speak it, because when I think about it, it's one heck of a ***** to learn... It's one big bulk of exceptions to rules.
Yeah, English and German sound harsh compared to French, but personnaly I think a language should be useful, and not overly decorative...
Hmm... I thought Russian used letters, only different ones, like how Greek uses alpha, beta, etc.

 

[Royas]

Their console, their rules.

I'm seeing a lot of other examples which don't quite work with the situation. The DS is copyrighted. Tools like hammers are not. Big difference.

The DS is not copyrighted, it's a piece of hardware. Much like a hammer, in fact. Now, some of the firmware might be copyrighted, but a flash card isn't necessarily copying any of their firmware code, just using it.

Once I pay my money for the console, it's no longer their console. It's mine. I paid for it, it's hardware, it's MINE. And, to steal your statement, my console, my rules.

No, afaik, the DS is copyrighted as a piece of hardware. Dual screen being the first and all that.

And no, it's not your console. It belongs to Nintendo, you're merely borrowing it. They release firmware updates, hardware updates, recalls, etc. You've basically bought a license to use the console, nothing more. You used to buy things, now you buy a usage license. Welcome to reality. =P

You can't copyright hardware, period. Copyright is specifically for such things as writing, painting, photos, basically any creative expression of an idea. It's for intangible property. The DS name is trademarked, and there are no doubt numerous patents involved in many of the technologies (such as the dual screen, I'll wager), but it isn't copyrighted. Now, that said, the firmware, software and code can be, and probably is, copyrighted. That's what they base these ridiculous lawsuits against things like the flash cartridges on, infringement on their copyrighted code.

Previous decisions in the courts of the United States have stated that you are allowed to infringe in that sort of situation, if infringing is the only way to get hardware to work with other hardware, but only so long as you get the code legally. That was before the DMCA, so the rules here have likely changed. I have no idea what the rules in France are, but I'm sure the courts had a pretty good understanding of them when they rendered this decision.

In the end, though, I stand by my opinion. If I pay for the console (a piece of hardware) it's just like paying for a car. It's mine, and I can do with it as I please.

 

[Flos]

In the end, though, I stand by my opinion. If I pay for the console (a piece of hardware) it's just like paying for a car. It's mine, and I can do with it as I please.

That's such a bullshit analogy.

Just because you own the DS does not give you the right to steal. Owning a car doesn't mean you can drive at 70 in a residential area. You can't legally use a computer to download child pornography. You can't use a DVD player to play fiiiiingers. Owning something entitles you to nothing but the ownership of the product. Sure, you can do things with it that it wasn't intended for.

That fact, however, will not make you right, legally or morally, in what you do. Just self-righteous.

Fancy that.

 

[Amnestic]

In the end, though, I stand by my opinion. If I pay for the console (a piece of hardware) it's just like paying for a car. It's mine, and I can do with it as I please.

That's such a bullshit analogy.

Just because you own the DS does not give you the right to steal. Owning a car doesn't mean you can drive at 70 in a residential area. You can't legally use a computer to download child pornography. You can't use a DVD player to play fiiiiingers. Owning something entitles you to nothing but the ownership of the product. Sure, you can do things with it that it wasn't intended for.

That fact, however, will not make you right, legally or morally, in what you do. Just self-righteous.

Fancy that.

You can't ban X just because it allows people to do Y, which happens to be illegal.

You can have Cars which can be used for Street Racing, it doesn't mean you should ban cars.
You can have the Internet which can be used for piracy and child porn, it doesn't mean you should ban the internet.
You can have Flash Cards, which can be used for piracy, it doesn't mean you should ban Flash Cards.

Piracy is still, last I checked, stealing and thus illegal. That however, is an entirely separate issue to the legality of Flash Cards.