Nintendo Loses Lawsuit Against DS Flash Cards

[JWAN]

It's official: the French suck.

It is indeed official!

I cannot believe this surprises anyone lol
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but really folks this might have a deeper impact in the games department in France especially because of Microsoft's 3rd party hunting raids

This will be an interesting story to follow for sure!

 

[TelHybrid]

Meh... it's their own fault for not having better copy protection.

 

[Royas]

Their console, their rules.

I'm seeing a lot of other examples which don't quite work with the situation. The DS is copyrighted. Tools like hammers are not. Big difference.

The DS is not copyrighted, it's a piece of hardware. Much like a hammer, in fact. Now, some of the firmware might be copyrighted, but a flash card isn't necessarily copying any of their firmware code, just using it.

Once I pay my money for the console, it's no longer their console. It's mine. I paid for it, it's hardware, it's MINE. And, to steal your statement, my console, my rules.

 

[sneakypenguin]

Hmmm. Isn't this just like MS making the xbox not take hardware/software mods, so under this would MS have to welcome third party modifications?... Personally I would somehow try to "kill" systems that are modded, if there is such a way.

But hey at least ppl can pirate games with continued ease.

 

[Valentine82]

Nintendo is made up of a bunch of wing nuts so out of touch with core gamers that it's almost comical, in a GamePro interview years ago, the 'master mind' behind mario gave the worst advise I've ever heard when asked what his advice would be to game designers. "Just ignore the customer, do whatever you want" pretty much sums it up. Great model for success there Miamoto.

I think Yatzee pretty much nailed the problem in his Wii rant. I'm sure that had someone at Nintendo rocking back and forth crying in front of a shrine to Michel Jackson for hours... Naw they're too disconnected from any sort of feedback.

 

[Altorin]

a very interesting precedent

 

[targren]

Their console, their rules.

Screw that. Once I've swiped my Amex, signed my name, and got the box in my grubby little hands, it ain't their console anymore, it's mine. If I want to use my DS with flash cards, keep it in my cats' sandbox, or hackup naughty vibrating auxiliary add-ons (the secret to creating the mythical girl who loves video games, I assure you!) that's all my decision. They have no say in the matter other than on the warranty (which is generally pathetic on game consoles anyway).

 

[Double A]

Their console, their rules.

I'm seeing a lot of other examples which don't quite work with the situation. The DS is copyrighted. Tools like hammers are not. Big difference.

The DS is not copyrighted, it's a piece of hardware. Much like a hammer, in fact. Now, some of the firmware might be copyrighted, but a flash card isn't necessarily copying any of their firmware code, just using it.

Once I pay my money for the console, it's no longer their console. It's mine. I paid for it, it's hardware, it's MINE. And, to steal your statement, my console, my rules.

Seriously, it's not? I honestly did not know that...

 

[targren]

The DS is not copyrighted, it's a piece of hardware.

Seriously, it's not? I honestly did not know that...

Copyright applies to expression, not physical objects. "Harry Potter and the Extended Education" is copyrighted, but "books" as a concept are not.

Physical objects/tools can be protected under "intellectual property" (gods, I feel so dirty using bullshit phrases like that) under patents if they're sufficiently novel (although the idiots here in the US seem to have no problem breaking that definition with idiocy like software and business method patents and patents on obvious shit that's been done for 20 years before the patent), but that just keeps others from doing the same thing in exactly the same way.

A good example of patents in game hardware was the old-school one-piece "Cross" keypad from the old NES controllers. Ever wonder why the PSX used the inferior 4-piece D-pad instead of the 1-piece, that's why.

Neither of those things, however, allows a company to dictate how a product may be used after it is sold. This is actually codified in the US under what is called the (rapidly dying) "First Sale Doctrine". That is why everyone is trying to tie completely pointless shit into online services now (COD, okay... has an excuse for being online. But a side-scrolling castlevania game?)? Because they cannot legally do anything to stop someone from modding their console, but they CAN legally ban said consoles off of their online services. Because the consoles are sold, but a service is not sold.

That's also why the publishers and gamestop have this unholy alliance of bullshit "bonus content" that is only for new copies of games: it's the publishers' way of trying to stop the secondhand market (though why gamestop plays along is beyond me).


(I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. Your milage may vary. Not valid in all countries. No substitutions, exchanges, or refunds. Close cover before striking. Not for use with unmodded DS or PSP consoles. Consult a physician if effects last more than four hours.)

 

[GonzoGamer]

I love those flash carts.
They're the reason I still carry a gb micro.

 

[Amnestic]

Yes, the judge with oodles of education and access to countless materials on such things is far more ignorant of the entire subject than you, some random internet poster.

In other news, I'm the Queen of Sheba. From now on I expect to be adressed as "Your Majesty" or "Your Highness."

I'm a graduate student studying digital game design for my MFA under industry veterans. That doesn't make me more qualified than a real industry professional by any means but I daresay I'm a lot more informed about games than the average politician, who generally isn't informed about anything other than politics. Who knows, though? Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm not giving the judge enough credit and he is an informed entertainment lawyer. From what I understand, though, the French government is generally unkind to major foreign media companies, feeling that they don't want them to influence French culture, and it tends to rule against them whenever possible--not necessarily always unjustly, mind you, but you can see a bit of where I'm coming from with this. My perspective is that they tend to be a bit unfair and are just as interested in damaging a company's profits as they are in anything else.

Politics=/=Law. They cross over, but they're not the same thing. A judge, ostensibly, is not a politician. He's a...well, judge. He adjudicates based on his interpretation of the laws that are currently in place. He's likely got years of experience under his belt and when a case from one of the top names in the gaming industry hit his desk, I would think he probably took it seriously and did his research.

Whether you agree with his ruling or not isn't what I'm getting at, but calling him uninformed or ignorant of the subject is terribly short sighted.

 

[mikecoulter]

The French did something awesome... Go France!

 

[NickCaligo42]

Politics=/=Law. They cross over, but they're not the same thing. A judge, ostensibly, is not a politician. He's a...well, judge. He adjudicates based on his interpretation of the laws that are currently in place. He's likely got years of experience under his belt and when a case from one of the top names in the gaming industry hit his desk, I would think he probably took it seriously and did his research.

Whether you agree with his ruling or not isn't what I'm getting at, but calling him uninformed or ignorant of the subject is terribly short sighted.

I'm going to have to admit you're right on that one and that I did jump the gun on my reaction.

 

[Bob_F_It]

From what I recall, one factor in the 1983/84 games crash was that system manufacturers were disallowed from controlling the releases of software, creating oversaturation of software (There were other factors, but many hands make light work). The court has just pushed the first domino to recreating that.

 

[JakobBloch]

From what I recall, one factor in the 1983/84 games crash was that system manufacturers were disallowed from controlling the releases of software, creating oversaturation of software (There were other factors, but many hands make light work). The court has just pushed the first domino to recreating that.

Times are different now. What was a big problem then probably won't be so now. The time ,effort and money needed to make games and software these days is far greater then in the 80's or even 90's. In the 80's your average game development group (I say group because that was more what they were) was 4 guys in a basement coding in their spare time. When anyone can make a game in a week the amount of junk you will see will be enormous. However these days if you plan to actually make money off of something it will have to show a lot more polish and integrity than in those times. Most games of the 80's would be free to play flash games now.

And on another note: (and to not have to write a novel) It is my console. I bought it, its mine and there is nothing they can do about it... well they can ban me from their services but that is pretty much it. saying I can't use non-licensed hardware (or software for that matter) is like saying that I can't dip my chicken in ice-cream if I felt like it. It might not be a good idea (taste horrible I imagine) but the choice -and mistake- is mine to make.

 

[mariofan1000]

What? It's nintendo's console. They can do what they want.

 

[Amnestic]

What? It's nintendo's console. They can do what they want.

If they released a firmware update on the Wii which made any and all games that weren't made in-house by Nintendo no longer work, would you also say that "it's their console, they can do what they want"?

Replace "Nintendo" and "Wii" with "Sony/Microsoft" and "PS3/360" as necessary to apply to you.

 

[targren]

What? It's nintendo's console. They can do what they want.

Wrong. Read the rest of the thread. As much as the companies (and, apparently, the drooling fanboys) may want to wish that were true, it is not. Once it's sold, it's not their console anymore.

 

[Sevre]

Does this justify owning a flash card then? Will the internet community still frown (apart from some sites) upon these tools for open source and by extension, piracy?