Nintendo Makes Major Reductions in Wii U, 3DS Sales Projections

[VG_Addict]

I think Nintendo needs to try and seek out and recruit indie developers and try to market itself as the indie console the Ouya tried to be, backed up of course by it's own high quality first party titles. It can't compete with the other consoles in power or performance and thus has already failed the triple-A scene that it seemed to be shooting for, but it can try to market itself as a different kind of console, one less expensive and more focused on creative low budget titles. Nintendo's sensibilities have always been more in line with an indie developer anyway, just with a much higher budget.

why would an Indie Developer go within a thousand feet of a WiiU? They get far better return everywhere else. They either develop for the tablet and phone market, which gives them an potential installed user base of hundreds of millions (granted with low per sale numbers being made up for in volume) or they target the other two consoles and PC's. Given the new gen architectures for XBox and PS it is pretty much a 3'fer. Do core development for one and fairly easily port into the other two. Far more bang for the buck of development time.

Whereas the WiiU fails in every way possible for attracting Indie or small scale developers. Strange system architecture and specs. Odd unique tablet interface controller. Disturbingly small installed user base. Historically uncooperative 3rd party support history. Lousy and comparatively unrefined online mechanism for delivery and play. I'm not sure Nintendo could throw enough money at a developer at this point to get them to take up the challenge. And even if they did, good luck finding that 1 in a million killer app that would actually cause people to buy a WiiU. Because thats the root problem right now. People who own Nintendo Consoles will buy lots of Nintendo's A list product. But that product is not enough in and of itself to drive the sales of the Consoles. So people who have 3dS's will buy Mario and Zelda. But at this point the general public is not buying a 3dS or WiiU just to play Mario and Zelda. They are buying an XBox to play Call of Duty.

Numerous indie devs have praised the Wii U and 3DS.

 

[faefrost]

I think Nintendo needs to try and seek out and recruit indie developers and try to market itself as the indie console the Ouya tried to be, backed up of course by it's own high quality first party titles. It can't compete with the other consoles in power or performance and thus has already failed the triple-A scene that it seemed to be shooting for, but it can try to market itself as a different kind of console, one less expensive and more focused on creative low budget titles. Nintendo's sensibilities have always been more in line with an indie developer anyway, just with a much higher budget.

why would an Indie Developer go within a thousand feet of a WiiU? They get far better return everywhere else. They either develop for the tablet and phone market, which gives them an potential installed user base of hundreds of millions (granted with low per sale numbers being made up for in volume) or they target the other two consoles and PC's. Given the new gen architectures for XBox and PS it is pretty much a 3'fer. Do core development for one and fairly easily port into the other two. Far more bang for the buck of development time.

Whereas the WiiU fails in every way possible for attracting Indie or small scale developers. Strange system architecture and specs. Odd unique tablet interface controller. Disturbingly small installed user base. Historically uncooperative 3rd party support history. Lousy and comparatively unrefined online mechanism for delivery and play. I'm not sure Nintendo could throw enough money at a developer at this point to get them to take up the challenge. And even if they did, good luck finding that 1 in a million killer app that would actually cause people to buy a WiiU. Because thats the root problem right now. People who own Nintendo Consoles will buy lots of Nintendo's A list product. But that product is not enough in and of itself to drive the sales of the Consoles. So people who have 3dS's will buy Mario and Zelda. But at this point the general public is not buying a 3dS or WiiU just to play Mario and Zelda. They are buying an XBox to play Call of Duty.

Numerous indie devs have praised the Wii U and 3DS.

And yet they aren't making much in the way of games for it, are they? It is a nice fun looking console. But it offers developers a horrid potential ROI. It's not like this problem is unique to Nintendo. Sony faces similar issues with the PS Vita.

The 3dS is a different beast. It has a huge installed user base. Making it worthwhile to develop for.

 

[Dragonbums]

Nintendo as just a handheld developer wouldn't be interesting. It would just be the same as always, only that they don't make consoles anymore. And considering how the console scene itself is more or less the same thing with the only thing differing between the two is brand title, price points, and exclusives- that would be a pretty boring era indeed. What Nintendo needs to do now is finish up whatever games they are making for the 3DS, and put a huge chunk of that team over to the Wii U. It's clear that in terms of games development, Nintendo put a lot of horse power to make sure the struggling becomes a success. This resulted in the current neglect of the Wii U. Now that the 3DS is doing stellar- they need to give the Wii U the preferential special treatment the 3DS has been getting. That and they need to rerun that overview Wii U commercial ad over and over again so the masses will finally get the fact that it's a new console. Just advertising the games isn't going to cut it.

I think doubling down would be a bad idea. Whilst the 3DS has sold well, it sold 33% less devices than they thought it was going to this year. That's not totally stellar. It sold the average amount of pieces of hardware that a non-failing console sells and the DS in it's prime sold 300% more than the 3DS is selling now.

This is the second year of the 3DS and in that year it's going to sell around 10 million less units than the DS sold in it's second year. In fact, it's only selling exactly as well as the PSP sold.


The 3DS is selling well, but it's not selling as nearly as well as Nintendo hoped, nor is it reaching it's full potential. Whereas the Wii U is at best going to be a gamecube at the moment. They're not going to get third-party support when they've had the worst first year of any console in the past 20 years that wasn't made by Sega. If they invest even more in the 3DS then they can push up whats on track to be an 80 million console into a 110 million console (and if they actually ditch the Wii U entirely they could probably making it the bets selling handheld ever). If they focus on the Wii U, they can push up a 10-15 million console into a 25-30 million one.

With poor software sales. I'd put all my money on the 3DS right now

Putting all of the money into the 3DS will simply further have a huge neglect for the Wii U. You can't demand that the Wii U have more stellar games made for it, then say that Nintendo needs to put all hands on deck for the 3DS.

You are making it seem like the 3DS is doing sorta okay. When that couldn't be far from the truth. At this point, the 3DS will only go upwards. No.
It's time Nintendo focus on the console just like they focused on the Wii U. Nintendo had the ability to use 3DS profits to save losses on the Wii U. However they chose to leave those profits as is and dig into their bank reserves.

 

[BrotherRool]

Putting all of the money into the 3DS will simply further have a huge neglect for the Wii U. You can't demand that the Wii U have more stellar games made for it, then say that Nintendo needs to put all hands on deck for the 3DS.

You are making it seem like the 3DS is doing sorta okay. When that couldn't be far from the truth. At this point, the 3DS will only go upwards. No.
It's time Nintendo focus on the console just like they focused on the Wii U. Nintendo had the ability to use 3DS profits to save losses on the Wii U. However they chose to leave those profits as is and dig into their bank reserves.

I'm not the one saying the 3DS is under performing. Nintendo is. They said in their report that the only countries they felt the 3DS was selling strongly in was France and Japan. It's doing PSP well, it's not doing DS well, or Gameboy well.

And I'm not demanding the Wii U has more stellar games for it. I'm saying it's never going to have enough stellar games for it no matter what Nintendo tries. It's true they would be deserting their core fanbase, but their core fanbase is no longer bigger enough to make much money of, it was barely true of the Gamecube and it's even less true now (and frankly their core fanbase is also quite rightly deserting Nintendo. Not even the Nintendo fans bought a Wii U this year).

The Wii U will never gain third-party support. Everyone was jumping ship when it was a console that was selling kind of okay. Whose going to risk millions on a console that can barely sell as many units in as year as people who bought copies of a buggy unfinished DayZ in a month? And the non-Nintendo fans expect Bioware RPGs and Ubisoft open-world games and all the rest. The Wii U isn't enough and it wouldn't be enough if Nintendo brought every single developer they own to make games for it. When you buy a Wii U you're buying a console served by a single publisher, when you buy a PS4 or One you're buying a console served by every publisher (except Nintendo).

People know this, that's why the PS4 has sold more units in it's first two months than the Wii managed in it's first year.

I'm not saying Nintendo needs to get the Wii U stellar games. I'm saying they should abandon ship and make the 3DS a device that will sell 140 million instead of 80.

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

maybe if the Wii U wasn't a piece of last gen garbage and the president of Nintendo wasn't stuck with a out-of-date 90's mind set then they'd do better financial wise.. it would also help if they increase the wii u harddrive size, made better games that weren't constant rehashes of the same game 100 time in a row and got rid of the stupid over sized tablet controller abomination.. but that's just wishful thinking..

 

[xaszatm]

maybe if the Wii U wasn't a piece of last gen garbage and the president of Nintendo wasn't stuck with a out-of-date 90's mind set then they'd do better financial wise.. it would also help if they increase the wii u harddrive size, made better games that weren't constant rehashes of the same game 100 time in a row and got rid of the stupid over sized tablet controller abomination.. but that's just wishful thinking..

You're completely right. Every Nintendo game ever made has been a complete rehash. There has been no new IP on the Wii U (Wonderful 101 and yes, it's own by Nintendo). And every sequel is an exact rehash of a previous game (because Super Mario 3D World got great reviews based solely on Nostalgia and totally not on, like, actually gameplay). At this point, saying Nintendo rehashes the same games is like saying The Last of Us is a rehash of Resident Evil 4 because the core mechanic revolves around accompanying a girl while shooting zombies.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

You're completely right. Every Nintendo game ever made has been a complete rehash. There has been no new IP on the Wii U (Wonderful 101 and yes, it's own by Nintendo). And every sequel is an exact rehash of a previous game (because Super Mario 3D World got great reviews based solely on Nostalgia and totally not on, like, actually gameplay). At this point, saying Nintendo rehashes the same games is like saying The Last of Us is a rehash of Resident Evil 4 because the core mechanic revolves around accompanying a girl while shooting zombies.

That is the thing I'm always trying to figure out: what is it about Nintendo that has people vocalizing such vehement, deep-seated HATE? Whenever Nintendo struggles there's almost this sick, twisted glee their critics take in using every chance they can to try and tear Nintendo down and even when they're doing fine people try to downplay their successes. I'm just trying to understand the logic here. There's a difference between criticizing a company and then celebrating their downfall. And the latter is CREEPY

 

[VG_Addict]

You're completely right. Every Nintendo game ever made has been a complete rehash. There has been no new IP on the Wii U (Wonderful 101 and yes, it's own by Nintendo). And every sequel is an exact rehash of a previous game (because Super Mario 3D World got great reviews based solely on Nostalgia and totally not on, like, actually gameplay). At this point, saying Nintendo rehashes the same games is like saying The Last of Us is a rehash of Resident Evil 4 because the core mechanic revolves around accompanying a girl while shooting zombies.

That is the thing I'm always trying to figure out: what is it about Nintendo that has people vocalizing such vehement, deep-seated HATE? Whenever Nintendo struggles there's almost this sick, twisted glee their critics take in using every chance they can to try and tear Nintendo down and even when they're doing fine people try to downplay their successes. I'm just trying to understand the logic here. There's a difference between criticizing a company and then celebrating their downfall. And the latter is CREEPY

It's what I said in my "Double standards" thread. There's an obvious anti-Nintendo sentiment in game journalism.

 

[bluegate]

maybe if the Wii U wasn't a piece of last gen garbage and the president of Nintendo wasn't stuck with a out-of-date 90's mind set then they'd do better financial wise.. it would also help if they increase the wii u harddrive size, made better games that weren't constant rehashes of the same game 100 time in a row and got rid of the stupid over sized tablet controller abomination.. but that's just wishful thinking..

You're completely right. Every Nintendo game ever made has been a complete rehash. There has been no new IP on the Wii U (Wonderful 101 and yes, it's own by Nintendo). And every sequel is an exact rehash of a previous game (because Super Mario 3D World got great reviews based solely on Nostalgia and totally not on, like, actually gameplay). At this point, saying Nintendo rehashes the same games is like saying The Last of Us is a rehash of Resident Evil 4 because the core mechanic revolves around accompanying a girl while shooting zombies.

I'm actually surprised that you didn't tell him that Nintendo has no franchise with a 100 entries in it, would have fitted right in with the rest of your post.

Now back on topic for a bit;
Can't wait for January 2015 as I am quite interested in how the release of Mario Kart 9 and Super Smash Brothers will have affected the Wii-U by then. The new Super Mario 3D game doesn't seem to have done much for it.

 

[Lightknight]

It's what I said in my "Double standards" thread. There's an obvious anti-Nintendo sentiment in game journalism.

Or, and stick with me here, maybe Nintendo put out an expensive console that was well underpowered (more 7th generation tech than 8th generation comparatively) with almost no games for a year after release?

Maybe you could think of some nice ways to spin that but the numbers aren't lying and the gaming industry doesn't benefit from a major player stinking it up. Nintendo just messed up this time and its rough if you're a Nintendo fan. But that doesn't mean the news is magically biased just because they report on it.

Forgive me for asking if you don't understand my question, but... J-E-F-F-E-R-S, is that you?

 

[VG_Addict]

I don't know what Nintendo can do with their next console. They might decide that the console market isn't profitable anymore.

Maybe there's no need for Nintendo consoles anymore.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Even Jeffers isn't this dense. Give the guy at least some credit. Don't bother with this user though. His posts regarding the issue are literally all over the place. He's already made like 6 one sentence stand alone posts in this thread and the other one. Don't bother.

Jeffers wasn't dense, he just had a short fuse and he didn't tolerate sloppy arguments, poor logic, and weak excuses.

 

[not_you]

I don't know why people keep saying that releasing another mario didn't generate more sales...

Hasn't anyone been up in the news about the Nintendo eShop fiasco? How they had to take down the entire network because there were too many people trying to connect to it at once just after christmas?

Obviously there was some sales boom over the holidays otherwise I would have my Pokemon Bank by now... -.-

But anyway, it still doesn't change the fact that I am largely disappointed with this, Nintendo seems to be the only console manufacturer that knows who they're catering for... GAMERS!
Not Sony or Microsoft and their "Take over the living room" mentality...\

Now if only Nintendo didn't make so many damn weird controllers so that the 3rd party devs can actually get on board with them...

 

[Lightknight]

It's what I said in my "Double standards" thread. There's an obvious anti-Nintendo sentiment in game journalism.

Or, and stick with me here, maybe Nintendo put out an expensive console that was well overpowered (more 7th generation tech than 8th generation comparatively) with almost no games for a year after release?

Maybe you could think of some nice ways to spin that but the numbers aren't lying and the gaming industry doesn't benefit from a major player stinking it up. Nintendo just messed up this time and its rough if you're a Nintendo fan. But that doesn't mean the news is magically biased just because they report on it.

Forgive me for asking if you don't understand my question, but... J-E-F-F-E-R-S, is that you?

Even Jeffers isn't this dense. Give the guy at least some credit. Don't bother with this user though. His posts regarding the issue are literally all over the place. He's already made like 6 one sentence stand alone posts in this thread and the other one. Don't bother.

I haven't read a ton of this guy's stuff so I wouldn't know if other stuff is off. But the "media is a meanie pants to Nintendo" argument was a mainstay of Jeffers'. That's why I asked.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

But Iwata said they're thinking about a new business structure. It could mean they're going third party.

Or it Could mean the next Handheld ain't a dedicated handheld at all, but a Gaming-Centric Tablet/Phone.

Which I am all in favor of. Today I thought of a neat Nintendo Tablet idea called the "Gameboy Touch".

Or that instead of a Dedicated Home Console and a Dedicated Handheld, their next console is a mixture of the two.

Point is, Nintendo (Hopefully) isn't thinking that going 3rd Party is the Solution. (If they are, then I'm leaving Consoles for PC only.)

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I don't know why people keep saying that releasing another mario didn't generate more sales...

Hasn't anyone been up in the news about the Nintendo eShop fiasco? How they had to take down the entire network because there were too many people trying to connect to it at once just after christmas?

Obviously there was some sales boom over the holidays otherwise I would have my Pokemon Bank by now... -.-

But anyway, it still doesn't change the fact that I am largely disappointed with this, Nintendo seems to be the only console manufacturer that knows who they're catering for... GAMERS!
Not Sony or Microsoft and their "Take over the living room" mentality...\

Now if only Nintendo didn't make so many damn weird controllers so that the 3rd party devs can actually get on board with them...

Thing is though I doubt even that would bring Western 3rd parties over (and let's face it, THAT'S who we're talking about when people mention 3rd parties). Hell, the Gamepad has everything needed for a controller and people STILL turn their noses up. 3rd parties still seem to be in this mindset that somehow Yamauchi's ghost is running the company. The only way Nintendo would get these guys on board is moneyhatting, but Nintendo won't do that because it's historically proven to be a poor, short-sighted way to do business. To me the problem is that 3rd parties have been given too much power over the years and thus they seem to think they have some divine right to tell Nintendo, Sony, and MS how to do their jobs. It's just stupid

 

[Mr.Mattress]

Or, and stick with me here, maybe Nintendo put out an expensive console that was well overpowered (more 7th generation tech than 8th generation comparatively) with almost no games for a year after release?

Maybe you could think of some nice ways to spin that but the numbers aren't lying and the gaming industry doesn't benefit from a major player stinking it up. Nintendo just messed up this time and its rough if you're a Nintendo fan. But that doesn't mean the news is magically biased just because they report on it.

Okay, so Nintendo put out an Expensive Console that is Overpriced with No Games...

... What does that have to do with the fallowing?:

maybe if the Wii U wasn't a piece of last gen garbage and the president of Nintendo wasn't stuck with a out-of-date 90's mind set then they'd do better financial wise.. it would also help if they increase the wii u harddrive size, made better games that weren't constant rehashes of the same game 100 time in a row and got rid of the stupid over sized tablet controller abomination.. but that's just wishful thinking..

See, you had actual complaints. But Crazy Gamer is what we're talking about when we're talking about Blind Nintendo Hate.

You point out the WiiU Was overpriced on Launch, I would incline to agree with you.

Crazy Gamer says the WiiU is a "Piece of Last Gen Garbage", which I strongly disagree: I own one, it certainly is fun, and the Graphics definitely look better then Last Gen.

You point out that it has No Games. I agree, although I would also say the few games it does have are excellent.

Crazy Gamer says that Nintendo needs to "Make Better games that weren't Constant Rehashes of the Same Game 100 Times in a Row". First, None of Nintendo's franchises have hit 100 installments yet. Two, a lot of these "Rehashes" have a lot of changes to them, not just visually but Mechanical-wise. And Third, a lot of these "Rehashes" are Great games.

Would you not at least agree that Crazy Gamer wasn't right in what he said?

 

[BloodSquirrel]

So, the question is, how long will this be allowed to continue before investors decide that Iwata is going to resign whether he likes it or not?

I know Japanese companies don't like turnover, but Nintendo will be lucky to get out of this generation alive if sales don't turn around. They can't afford to Iwata give his flawed strategy another shot.

 

[Olas]

I think Nintendo needs to try and seek out and recruit indie developers and try to market itself as the indie console the Ouya tried to be, backed up of course by it's own high quality first party titles. It can't compete with the other consoles in power or performance and thus has already failed the triple-A scene that it seemed to be shooting for, but it can try to market itself as a different kind of console, one less expensive and more focused on creative low budget titles. Nintendo's sensibilities have always been more in line with an indie developer anyway, just with a much higher budget.

why would an Indie Developer go within a thousand feet of a WiiU? They get far better return everywhere else. They either develop for the tablet and phone market, which gives them an potential installed user base of hundreds of millions (granted with low per sale numbers being made up for in volume)

Tablets and iphones are great if your game only needs touchscreen controls and you don't feel the need to charge much, or any, money for it. However not many people who own these devices intend to use them for serious gaming and it's reflected in their libraries. While exceptions always exist, the majority of ios games are simple time-killers meant to keep you entertained for brief periods during your day. If these were in direct competition with Nintendo's game library the 3DS wouldn't have picked up the steam that it has.

or they target the other two consoles and PC's. Given the new gen architectures for XBox and PS it is pretty much a 3'fer. Do core development for one and fairly easily port into the other two. Far more bang for the buck of development time.

Assuming that the people who buy those consoles will be interested in them. Triple A titles are clearly a big part of those consoles' focus and the people who buy them might not be the same people who seek out lots of indie games.

Of course Nintendo could also just pay third party developers to make games exclusive to the WiiU, it's not like Microsoft and Sony aren't doing that.

Whereas the WiiU fails in every way possible for attracting Indie or small scale developers. Strange system architecture and specs.

Not really, from what I've heard it's basically just a maxed out version of last gen system architecture, which is why the system is backwards compatible with the Wii. Years down the line it may seem bizarre and antiquated, but I have trouble believing it's that big of an issue right now.

Odd unique tablet interface controller.

Odd? It's got the touchscreen of a tablet device and the buttons of a traditional controller, both of which are commonly used for playing games. Plus it also supports Wiimotes and classic controllers as well, so there's really no issue here.

Disturbingly small installed user base.

Something that would start to change once the system gets more games. Also it's current user base is still larger than the Xbox One, it's had a year's head start on the competition remember.

Historically uncooperative 3rd party support history.

Hence the point of my entire post being about how they should be MORE cooperative and friendly to third parties.

Lousy and comparatively unrefined online mechanism for delivery and play.

While this is a valid issue with the console, I can't see it being a dealbreaker, plus it's something Nintendo can improve with updates in the future.

I'm not sure Nintendo could throw enough money at a developer at this point to get them to take up the challenge.

Of course they could. Who do you think we're talking about here? Remember we're talking about indie developers, not big companies that require billions of dollars to make games. They've bought third parties before (such as Retro Studios) with considerable success. This would be even easier.

And even if they did, good luck finding that 1 in a million killer app that would actually cause people to buy a WiiU.

They don't need "that one in a million killer app", they just need a healthy selection of good games, the same as every other console. Nintendo isn't special in this regard.

Because thats the root problem right now. People who own Nintendo Consoles will buy lots of Nintendo's A list product. But that product is not enough in and of itself to drive the sales of the Consoles. So people who have 3dS's will buy Mario and Zelda. But at this point the general public is not buying a 3dS or WiiU just to play Mario and Zelda. They are buying an XBox to play Call of Duty.

Which is the entire reason I'm saying they need to get more indie games, so that people have more to choose from than just the staples.

 

[Something Amyss]

Also, you conveniently ignore the booming success of the 3DS.

"Booming" is a bit of a stretch, having failed to compare to the DS by this time in its life or meet sales expectations. It's not doing horrible, but "booming?"

How likely is it that this is Nintendo's last console gen?

As likely as it usually is. That is to say, not very.