I'd also want to see a Mario fps, I'm hoping it would look something like this...WanderingFool said:The film wasnt great, but it did have its charm.cidbahamut said:
Anyways, Im still waiting for that Mario FPS I was promised...
Nintendo Needs To Reboot Mario and Luigi
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
It was a fun movie. Not great, but I could certainly live with "enjoyable."cidbahamut said:
I don't know, I think Yahtzee is familiar with MLP. He strikes me as a Fluttershy fan.Steve the Pocket said:
Is Luigi using a P-90? More reason to like him.WanderingFool said:Anyways, Im still waiting for that Mario FPS I was promised...
(and related picture)
More importantly, does the star on Mario's firearm mean he's invincible?
I don't think it has to be either/or.EstrogenicMuscle said:
I don't know that the Mario series necessarily needs a reboot, but a series that has been running this long is definitely ripe material for reimagining in some sort of spinoff. Mario has been around so long he's a part of our cultural lexicon. Even your mom knows who Mario is. He's made it into a lot of contemporary art and music, especially with the current "retro" trend. And if you want to see how a more serious look at themes just glazed over by the main series, just look at the Escapists's own There Will Be Brawl. Was it a silly idea? Yes. Was it super awesome? Hell yes.
Of course, a reimagining, rexamining spinoff of Mario doesn't have to be all 90's grimdark. The various Mario RPG games have already started exploring the world a bit more, and they're still very rooted in the Saturday morning cartoon, sugary breakfast cereal commercial aesthetic. I really like the "blue collar Supermen" angle, and I really, really, really like the "Peach as John Carter of Mars" angle. Hell, we've all heard the joke about Bowser being an inept villian and Peach allowing herself to be kidnapped so Mario has something to do, and also because she's kind of into it. It's such an obvious joke even College Humor made it. Probably more than once. But it illustrats the point that there are interesting avenues the series could explore or explain that don't currently make sense to the people who grew up on Mario, but that don't need to make sense to the kids that are currently discovering him. And they don't have to be ridiculously overserious or all black, brown, and grey. Nintendo can eplore the Mushroom Kingdom in this way without alienating its younger audience. We can have both cartoon Mario and Super Mario.
Of course, a reimagining, rexamining spinoff of Mario doesn't have to be all 90's grimdark. The various Mario RPG games have already started exploring the world a bit more, and they're still very rooted in the Saturday morning cartoon, sugary breakfast cereal commercial aesthetic. I really like the "blue collar Supermen" angle, and I really, really, really like the "Peach as John Carter of Mars" angle. Hell, we've all heard the joke about Bowser being an inept villian and Peach allowing herself to be kidnapped so Mario has something to do, and also because she's kind of into it. It's such an obvious joke even College Humor made it. Probably more than once. But it illustrats the point that there are interesting avenues the series could explore or explain that don't currently make sense to the people who grew up on Mario, but that don't need to make sense to the kids that are currently discovering him. And they don't have to be ridiculously overserious or all black, brown, and grey. Nintendo can eplore the Mushroom Kingdom in this way without alienating its younger audience. We can have both cartoon Mario and Super Mario.
Why do we have to disregard the Yoshi's Island games? I think they could be rebooted too and then tie in rather well. Mario and Luigi are babies living in Brooklyn. One day they're taking a bath and a strange magical force sucks them down the drain (oh hey! an explanation for the bubbles!). Maybe there's something about one of their bath toys being a powerful magic item in the Mushroom Kingdom, and that's why they're pulled there (maybe it's related to F.L.U.D.D. somehow). Oh, and I like your idea for Peach, so she's just another baby who is pulled into the world for whatever reason. Yoshi is the hero here, and takes the babies on a quest to stop the villain (a shy guy leader?) and send the babies home.
After all these events as babies, they're returned home. Of course, like most of us, they grow up forgetting what happened to them when they were babies. A few years later, there's a new threat on the Mushroom Kingdom. The citizens know they need one of there past heroes to save them, and they choose to drag Peach in to be their hero.
This goes very well, so well that they name Peach as their ruler. But not everyone is happy about this, and a young Koopa named Bowser rally's together a force of those who oppose this outsider being their ruler (oh! so that's why not every Koopa and Goomba is on Bowser's side! It's just the ones who oppose Peach). They analyze how Peach has fought in the past and train and strategize until they know they can capture her and have Bowser take over. The citizens need another hero, and this time they pull Mario and Luigi into the world to defeat Bowser.
You know what? I've written this much already anyway, let's try something else. So we're saying the villain Peach fought was a new one. How about one with cloning powers, who used his powers to make an army of Toad clones (Goombas). He's trying to take advantage of this power struggle and is hoping to overthrow Bowser too so that he can take over. But instead of going to do it on his own, he clones Mario and Luigi to create Wario and Waluigi, too minions who are in charge of taking down Bowser. They serve as rivals to Mario and Luigi and occasionally get in their way.
Hey, wait a minute, why didn't this cloning guy try to use his power on Peach? Hm, could this be a backstory for Daisy? What if she's a clone of Peach who started out as a minion, but eventually had a change of heart. Oh! And then what if this villain is the king of Sarasaland, who's plan was to expand his Kingdom into the Mushroom Kingdom, but then when Peach defeated him Daisy took over. What if this king villain guy was Tatanga? Oh, what if Sarasaland is just a whole land of clones? And Diamond City is located there!
Wow, this is fun. I think I might try writing some more later.
After all these events as babies, they're returned home. Of course, like most of us, they grow up forgetting what happened to them when they were babies. A few years later, there's a new threat on the Mushroom Kingdom. The citizens know they need one of there past heroes to save them, and they choose to drag Peach in to be their hero.
This goes very well, so well that they name Peach as their ruler. But not everyone is happy about this, and a young Koopa named Bowser rally's together a force of those who oppose this outsider being their ruler (oh! so that's why not every Koopa and Goomba is on Bowser's side! It's just the ones who oppose Peach). They analyze how Peach has fought in the past and train and strategize until they know they can capture her and have Bowser take over. The citizens need another hero, and this time they pull Mario and Luigi into the world to defeat Bowser.
You know what? I've written this much already anyway, let's try something else. So we're saying the villain Peach fought was a new one. How about one with cloning powers, who used his powers to make an army of Toad clones (Goombas). He's trying to take advantage of this power struggle and is hoping to overthrow Bowser too so that he can take over. But instead of going to do it on his own, he clones Mario and Luigi to create Wario and Waluigi, too minions who are in charge of taking down Bowser. They serve as rivals to Mario and Luigi and occasionally get in their way.
Hey, wait a minute, why didn't this cloning guy try to use his power on Peach? Hm, could this be a backstory for Daisy? What if she's a clone of Peach who started out as a minion, but eventually had a change of heart. Oh! And then what if this villain is the king of Sarasaland, who's plan was to expand his Kingdom into the Mushroom Kingdom, but then when Peach defeated him Daisy took over. What if this king villain guy was Tatanga? Oh, what if Sarasaland is just a whole land of clones? And Diamond City is located there!
Wow, this is fun. I think I might try writing some more later.
and maybe peach could be more that an object to get`?
maybe peach could save them? or even change roles and peach and bowser are the heroes...
i mean, if you reboot it, you could make her the leading role and that would rock hard.^^
peach is riding the yosho-mobile and batteling two madmen who became greedy as they gained powers. she gets help by one old man, called b. owser.
maybe peach could save them? or even change roles and peach and bowser are the heroes...
i mean, if you reboot it, you could make her the leading role and that would rock hard.^^
peach is riding the yosho-mobile and batteling two madmen who became greedy as they gained powers. she gets help by one old man, called b. owser.
I was thinking the main part of the story in the games that needs to be explored is why there is a "war" between the Mushroom Kingdom and the Koopa Kingdom? Thinking back to the original game, I believe it said that Bowser cursed the Mushroom Kingdom so the Mushroom people were turned to blocks, what if there was a spin on that? That what if Peach had the power to turn inanimate objects alive and built the whole Kingdom and Bowser wants things to return to normal. Peach is too powerful to kill but kidnapping her is the only solution he has. Meanwhile Mario and Luigi show up while the Kingdom is slowly reverting back to the original state and the remaining Mushroom people set him out on the quest to save their princess. Like Peach, Mario and Luigi find that they have powers here too but they're just not as good as Peach's. Where she can bring things to life M&L can internalize the powers of the Mushroom Kingdom allowing them to grow, spit fire, fly, etc. This reinforces them as Blue Collar Supermen, as they could have potential to be God-Kings like Peach has made herself but they don't have the skills or know-how to make it happen so they figure out how to utilize their limited powers and still save the Kingdom.
You lost me at the comparisons to Superman...
Lets not dig further into the rabbit hole than necessary, especially any rabbit hole that MovieBob found.
If there is any subversion of heroic tropes, it was done purely on accident. Mario is not Superman.
(even when Mario dons the cape he can only take 2 hits before being KO'd)
When Super Mario Bros was new, and lets be honest, it was a surreal game.
Grown-men eating mushrooms and to grow in size so they can stomp on turtles or magic flowers that let them throw fire from their hands is the kind of thing that only the 1980s could produce.
The story is what justifies our "heroes" looking like two lost pixelated handymen who have a penchant for jumping down the inordinately numerous, man-sized pipes in the Mushroom Kingdom. Even the "reward" of rescuing the princess is a cliche'; a reward that is based predominantly on the fact that the two heroes are human, so they would want a human reward.
(Wario is a perfect subversion of that; whereas a rescue is considered a token reward for heroes, Wario just wants money because he's darker and greedy, and yet he's doing largely the same bloody thing as his "Nice Guy" counterpart)
There isn't any deeper meaning to it; it's just a way to rationalize otherwise weird ass elements tied to gameplay mechanics. And that is why a lot of video game movies fail; their fantastical elements make little to no sense unless they are already conforming to tropes in film (like Mortal Kombat; martial arts films, especially weird/bad Hong Kong cinema, predates MK by 40 years at least)
In that, I agree that the Super Mario Bros movie we got was about as good as we could have expected from the time.
Because I saw the alternative. I watched the Super Show when it was new, and staying true to the elements in the game only served to highlight just how convoluted and surreal it was outside of its environment.
So..I dunno. Maybe a reboot of the Mario Bros could work creatively, but asking Nintendo to reboot Mario is like asking Disney to reboot Mickey Mouse; they aren't going to budge because they rather like the icon they've got.
(and ironically, it has sort of been done before for both characters. Steamboat Willie vs Donkey Kong)
Lets not dig further into the rabbit hole than necessary, especially any rabbit hole that MovieBob found.
If there is any subversion of heroic tropes, it was done purely on accident. Mario is not Superman.
(even when Mario dons the cape he can only take 2 hits before being KO'd)
When Super Mario Bros was new, and lets be honest, it was a surreal game.
Grown-men eating mushrooms and to grow in size so they can stomp on turtles or magic flowers that let them throw fire from their hands is the kind of thing that only the 1980s could produce.
The story is what justifies our "heroes" looking like two lost pixelated handymen who have a penchant for jumping down the inordinately numerous, man-sized pipes in the Mushroom Kingdom. Even the "reward" of rescuing the princess is a cliche'; a reward that is based predominantly on the fact that the two heroes are human, so they would want a human reward.
(Wario is a perfect subversion of that; whereas a rescue is considered a token reward for heroes, Wario just wants money because he's darker and greedy, and yet he's doing largely the same bloody thing as his "Nice Guy" counterpart)
There isn't any deeper meaning to it; it's just a way to rationalize otherwise weird ass elements tied to gameplay mechanics. And that is why a lot of video game movies fail; their fantastical elements make little to no sense unless they are already conforming to tropes in film (like Mortal Kombat; martial arts films, especially weird/bad Hong Kong cinema, predates MK by 40 years at least)
In that, I agree that the Super Mario Bros movie we got was about as good as we could have expected from the time.
Because I saw the alternative. I watched the Super Show when it was new, and staying true to the elements in the game only served to highlight just how convoluted and surreal it was outside of its environment.
So..I dunno. Maybe a reboot of the Mario Bros could work creatively, but asking Nintendo to reboot Mario is like asking Disney to reboot Mickey Mouse; they aren't going to budge because they rather like the icon they've got.
(and ironically, it has sort of been done before for both characters. Steamboat Willie vs Donkey Kong)
I've always been wondering if they'd get the balls to try something like this. I once even debated trying to make a little indie adventure/horror game using the cast of Mario as the base for a deconstruction of the very (as referenced in the article) morally questionable behavior and potentially harmful attitude. Anything different from what they're doing would be interesting at this point.
Lol I love all the ideas!
Not that Nintendo will ever do any of this, Mario is what he is. I would love any sort of retake on the old brothers, how about a game where Luigi bribes Wario to help him save Mario? Of course Mario is their invincible icon so Nintendo would probably never do that. (maybe he's asleep and won't wake up?)
Yeah Nintendo is perfectly happy doing the same old crap, I can't even think of what horrible thing would have to happen to the company for them to even consider shaking things up with their franchises. So lets just all keep dreaming. They're nice dreams...
Not that Nintendo will ever do any of this, Mario is what he is. I would love any sort of retake on the old brothers, how about a game where Luigi bribes Wario to help him save Mario? Of course Mario is their invincible icon so Nintendo would probably never do that. (maybe he's asleep and won't wake up?)
Yeah Nintendo is perfectly happy doing the same old crap, I can't even think of what horrible thing would have to happen to the company for them to even consider shaking things up with their franchises. So lets just all keep dreaming. They're nice dreams...
I don't have much of an opinion per se on what they do with the games, but the movies I feel are a sticking point for adaptation because I feel, much like with Avengers, that the point is to try and make it seem like something that could happen in real life or at least bring the feeling of the game into straight narrative, and a radical redesign like the Mario movie, though agreed can be...interesting, just defeats the purpose. HOWEVER, things like character dimension and subtext would make for a massive improvement to an adaptation from a medium that doesn't focus on it while still keeping the iconography like they did with the comic-based films.
For example, a Megaman movie would most likely need to be action-packed but somewhat cheery and humorous, not a cold-blooded gun fest (see Megaman X attempted reboot game, the one where X doesn't have a damn face). You've got the basic set-up: Light vs. Wily, Megaman fighting Robot Masters, fortress invasion, stealing powers, etc. It's the characters and meaning behind the conflict, though, that will make it work - Megaman, a naive, moral do-gooder, encounters Protoman, who left Light because he wanted to become independent and sees the Light/Wily war as a sick ego-stroking grudge match where the robots are disposable tools and tries to convince MM that his love and devotion to Light isn't genuine but some misguided sense of obligation that holds him back from making real choices.
Though you've got the iconography, it's those missing details that change the context of the entire story, the one that is only hinted at in the game and becomes the embodiment of the character itself, ie Megaman is a robot learning to be human and fights for justice, but finds that the most human emotion, love, can be deceptive and determines the decisions he makes. He also begins to understand the hypocrisy of fighting his robot kin and becomes torn between his creator and his brethren. Boom - conflict.
It's the kind of story that will make you think differently when you go back to play the games. That's what I think a good adaptation should do - not just show you the same stuff again, but improve it and add perspective to the the characters and their series. Capcom alone has some properties ripe for that kind of treatment and Nintendo and Mario certainly have room for expansion. (a thought on Mario and Luigi - Luigi is a coward but also sensitive and somewhat intelligent while Mario is brave but child-like and somewhat stubborn, which would get him into a trap that Luigi would know instinctively to avoid and become a short "Mario's Missing" sequence where Luigi would overcome his fear and save his bro).
For example, a Megaman movie would most likely need to be action-packed but somewhat cheery and humorous, not a cold-blooded gun fest (see Megaman X attempted reboot game, the one where X doesn't have a damn face). You've got the basic set-up: Light vs. Wily, Megaman fighting Robot Masters, fortress invasion, stealing powers, etc. It's the characters and meaning behind the conflict, though, that will make it work - Megaman, a naive, moral do-gooder, encounters Protoman, who left Light because he wanted to become independent and sees the Light/Wily war as a sick ego-stroking grudge match where the robots are disposable tools and tries to convince MM that his love and devotion to Light isn't genuine but some misguided sense of obligation that holds him back from making real choices.
Though you've got the iconography, it's those missing details that change the context of the entire story, the one that is only hinted at in the game and becomes the embodiment of the character itself, ie Megaman is a robot learning to be human and fights for justice, but finds that the most human emotion, love, can be deceptive and determines the decisions he makes. He also begins to understand the hypocrisy of fighting his robot kin and becomes torn between his creator and his brethren. Boom - conflict.
It's the kind of story that will make you think differently when you go back to play the games. That's what I think a good adaptation should do - not just show you the same stuff again, but improve it and add perspective to the the characters and their series. Capcom alone has some properties ripe for that kind of treatment and Nintendo and Mario certainly have room for expansion. (a thought on Mario and Luigi - Luigi is a coward but also sensitive and somewhat intelligent while Mario is brave but child-like and somewhat stubborn, which would get him into a trap that Luigi would know instinctively to avoid and become a short "Mario's Missing" sequence where Luigi would overcome his fear and save his bro).
The idea of "rebooting" Mario is terrible, but rebooting the world he is in could be interesting. The surreal aspects of the original game have lost that effect over time. Mario fights a fairly similar set of enemies each time. To some degree, the worlds aren't surprising at all. In fact, playing a newer Mario title is comfortable.Atmos Duality said:
So, the change I would want to see is having the traditional Mario end up in a completely different World. One that brings back that surreal feeling you got from the Super Mario Brothes. The US Super Mario Brothers 2 was totally surreal as well, since it was actually all based on a completely different game. After Super Mario 3 things have been very samey. So, Nintendo, how about creating something so weird that even jaded gamers have no idea what is going on.
It could ONLY happen in a spin-off series. People like to dump on Mario, but here we are, 30 years later. and Mario Galaxy is considered on of the best games on it's generation. Not best Mario or Nintendo game, but one of the best overall. You also have to deal with the fact that he has basically become the mascot for Nintendo, and you don't mess with the mascot. Sega, among it's many other faults, forgot that and well... We all all know Sonic's story.
An open world mushroom kingdom would be great. It would definitely be the kind of thing that could breathe life into the franchise without going over board.mjc0961 said:
It could still have traditional levels in it, but have them be part of a larger world. I would love that.
Aside from the fact that Peach gets to be more badass, this is a horrible idea and one of the reason I respect Nintendo so much is that they'd never have the lack of sense to do something this terrible. This is around 30 times as horrible of an idea as Shadow the Hedgehog at least. And Shadow the Hedgehog was a horrible, terrible, disgraceful idea.-Dragmire- said:
If this is what one means by "reboot", then Mario is one of the last things on the planet that needs a "reboot". And such a reboot would be one of the worst ideas in the industry ever. Up there with ideas like making Final Fantasy All the Bravest a horrible cash in game.
So, just a narrative reboot where everything is explained? A Mario: Origins, if you will?
You want to know why MGS4 bugged me? Because they felt the compulsion to explain everything. EVERYTHING. And mechanically it was just a more combat-heavy version of the earlier ones. Meanwhile the best one in the series (3) was the one that knew not EVERYTHING needed to be explained in mind-numbing detail and focus on the stealth mechanics and new survival mechanics.
This proposal doesn't solve the "problem". Let's say we do just reboot Mario and make it all grim, gritty and thoroughly explained down to the last insignificant detail. Congratulations. You're now playing a 2D or 3D platformer like all the other Mario games... but now you know WHY!
The difference needs to come in mechanics. And that does happen. Just not fast enough to satisfy the non-existent attention spans gamers have now. 1 was the original. 3 brought the world map. World brought Yoshi. 64 jumped to 3D. Sunshine brought the water pack (not all new mechanics can be winners...). Galaxy brought gravity mechanics. Galaxy 2... yeah, that was just unoriginal. Fun, but unoriginal.
Same can even be brought to some of the spin-offs. Let's take Mario + Luigi. Superstar Saga brings up the core mechanics. Partners in Time brings up time travel for the narrative and the babies for the combat. Bowser's Inside Story has you controlling Bowser. And Dream Team is going to focus on Dream Logic and lots of Luigis. Then there's the Paper Mario series. 1 establishes, TTYD expands on paper mechanics, Super makes it a platformer and Sticker Star made it an adventure game (again, they can't all be winners...).
Then there's the New Super Mario Bros series. I'm not a fan. You know what'd help? Reduce the price. I like nostalgia trips as much as the next guy. Not for $40 on a handheld or $60 on a console. And less frequency, because it gives people ammunition in the whole "Mario does the same thing over and over" argument.
So then we get back to what the article is about: the narrative. But again, I ask: would a reboot where EVERYTHING is completely, thoroughly explained really benefit the series? Is there truly a deep, long-standing NEED to understand why the Fire Flowers let Mario shoot fireballs? Would a Mario game truly benefit once they answer that mystical question?
I don't think Mario needs to be rebooted. I do think they need to do some new things with the stories. I think a little more willingness to be bold with the settings are needed. That's why I love the RPG games: they do strange NEW things with the Mushroom Kingdom rather than the platformer's typical plains/desert/water/ice/whatever worlds. A bit less fanservice would certainly help. You can only do "We brought back this obscure enemy from one game!" so many times before it gets old. But on a purely mechanical level, I think Mario is doing fine.
TL
R Some more crazy settings, less typical level structure from the platformers, less fanservice. We don't need to explain everything, because that wouldn't accomplish anything. And perhaps less frequency.
You want to know why MGS4 bugged me? Because they felt the compulsion to explain everything. EVERYTHING. And mechanically it was just a more combat-heavy version of the earlier ones. Meanwhile the best one in the series (3) was the one that knew not EVERYTHING needed to be explained in mind-numbing detail and focus on the stealth mechanics and new survival mechanics.
This proposal doesn't solve the "problem". Let's say we do just reboot Mario and make it all grim, gritty and thoroughly explained down to the last insignificant detail. Congratulations. You're now playing a 2D or 3D platformer like all the other Mario games... but now you know WHY!
The difference needs to come in mechanics. And that does happen. Just not fast enough to satisfy the non-existent attention spans gamers have now. 1 was the original. 3 brought the world map. World brought Yoshi. 64 jumped to 3D. Sunshine brought the water pack (not all new mechanics can be winners...). Galaxy brought gravity mechanics. Galaxy 2... yeah, that was just unoriginal. Fun, but unoriginal.
Same can even be brought to some of the spin-offs. Let's take Mario + Luigi. Superstar Saga brings up the core mechanics. Partners in Time brings up time travel for the narrative and the babies for the combat. Bowser's Inside Story has you controlling Bowser. And Dream Team is going to focus on Dream Logic and lots of Luigis. Then there's the Paper Mario series. 1 establishes, TTYD expands on paper mechanics, Super makes it a platformer and Sticker Star made it an adventure game (again, they can't all be winners...).
Then there's the New Super Mario Bros series. I'm not a fan. You know what'd help? Reduce the price. I like nostalgia trips as much as the next guy. Not for $40 on a handheld or $60 on a console. And less frequency, because it gives people ammunition in the whole "Mario does the same thing over and over" argument.
So then we get back to what the article is about: the narrative. But again, I ask: would a reboot where EVERYTHING is completely, thoroughly explained really benefit the series? Is there truly a deep, long-standing NEED to understand why the Fire Flowers let Mario shoot fireballs? Would a Mario game truly benefit once they answer that mystical question?
I don't think Mario needs to be rebooted. I do think they need to do some new things with the stories. I think a little more willingness to be bold with the settings are needed. That's why I love the RPG games: they do strange NEW things with the Mushroom Kingdom rather than the platformer's typical plains/desert/water/ice/whatever worlds. A bit less fanservice would certainly help. You can only do "We brought back this obscure enemy from one game!" so many times before it gets old. But on a purely mechanical level, I think Mario is doing fine.
TL
R Some more crazy settings, less typical level structure from the platformers, less fanservice. We don't need to explain everything, because that wouldn't accomplish anything. And perhaps less frequency.
Well, yes. Surrealism becomes less surreal with exposure.Clovus said:
Rebooting the world from ex-Surrealism into a new kind of surrealism would be...tricky to say the least.
And I know about Doki-Doki Panic. It's fascinating how slowly content of Doki-Doki's adaptation trickled into other Mario titles (apart from Bom-Omb and Shyguy, of course).
Why would it be that terrible? Think of it as a spinoff similar to all the mario sports games or paper mario, it doesn't mean they can't still make the mario galaxies and side scrolling games they do now. Mario seems to be one of those characters you can throw anywhere.EstrogenicMuscle said:Aside from the fact that Peach gets to be more badass, this is a horrible idea and one of the reason I respect Nintendo so much is that they'd never have the lack of sense to do something this terrible. This is around 30 times as horrible of an idea as Shadow the Hedgehog at least. And Shadow the Hedgehog was a horrible, terrible, disgraceful idea.-Dragmire- said:
If this is what one means by "reboot", then Mario is one of the last things on the planet that needs a "reboot". And such a reboot would be one of the worst ideas in the industry ever. Up there with ideas like making Final Fantasy All the Bravest a horrible cash in game.
Was there ever a reboot that failed because the reboot itself not being accepted as opposed to just being bad games?
I believe it would be extremely hard to pull off right but if they could, I would be interested in that.
That being said, it'll never happen and I'm thankful for that. As much as I would want to see it made, my opinion is one made from growing up with gaming and wanting to see games of my past grow up with me.
I've never really needed any sort of emotional fulfillment from Mario games other than pure joy, so I don't see how expanding his backstory could help the core games at all. I do like the direction Nintendo takes, where they give them the necessary competence to fill any role a game might require.
Let's compare Mario to another blue-collar hero with a long history of getting caught up in unique scenarios: Homer J. Simpson. Homer's been an astronaut, a snow-plow driver, a farmer, a cop, a truck driver, a vigilante superhero, and dozens more diverse occupations, but on his business card it says "Nuclear Technician". Homer becomes whatever the episode requires, because the goal of each episode is comedy. Likewise, the goal of each Mario game is great gameplay. There was a time when The Simspons writers felt they had to explain why Homer wasn't at work each week, and they eventually abandoned that because they were too restricted. If every single game had to explain why Mario wasn't running a plumbing service in Brooklyn, everything would start to feel "samey", more so then it is now.
I prefer when they don't answer or even acknowledge those questions and instead treat the scenario and/or mechanics as if they've always been there. When you start to pay attention to a series's continuity, you start to run into problems. No better example exists than comic books; the very early ones had their superheroes coming up with new inventions or powers every month to overcome their current predicament, and this would lead to them needing reboots every ten years to normalize their abilities. I believe the term is "power creep". Superman at one time had super hypnosis, and was a super-genuis scientist.
How does this relate to Mario? Well, if he didn't have a princess to save every two years eventually the stakes would keep getting higher and higher until he'd be duking it out on an alien world with the intergalactic warlord who destroyed his home planet right before Mario became the legendary Super-Saiyan. The plots of every Mario game are roughly the same, but they are still all amazing games without evolving character arcs, storylines or anything else of that literary dribble.
Not to say I don't like games with compelling storylines and emotional engagement, but you don't need a good story to be emotionally engaging. Case in point: Portal, and the Companion Cube. Nintendo even accomplished this in Yoshi's Island, where Mario was a useless wailing brat but you still felt compelled to protect him. At least, I did.
Gordon Freeman, who has no personality other than "Left-Click to swing Crowbar", is the star of one of the most cinematic and unforgettable games of all time. And Half-Life 2 is barely recognizable as a sequel to Half-Life.
Even so, a Mario "reboot" could be done without completing reinventing the character or making its stories more complex. I've said this before, but I'd love to see a new Super Mario Bros cartoon, and I think a good show to emulate would be Adventure Time. Its storytelling is very barebones, its mythology at times inconsistent, and new characters, settings, and physical forces are introduced as quickly as they are forgotten about. A thought exercise: replace Finn with Mario, Jake with Luigi, and Princess Bubblegum with Princess Peach, and tell me it doesn't have the same feel as one of the Mario games.
Even a Mario film reboot could be done without all that nonsense the Super Mario Bros. Movie bothered with; look to Pixar's Wall-E or Up! for inspiration. Wreck-It Ralph was a great movie, but it suffered from trying to explain too much and stay consistent with its own lore. Wall-E was a walking trash compactor; yet we were emotionally engaged with him despite his being unrelatable. We see Carl's entire life in the first 20 minutes of Up!, but you couldn't name anything but the broadest details of it.
I've honestly lost where I was going with this post if you hadn't noticed it by now. My point is, a backstory isn't necessary for a character like Mario. Hell, in any great story, you should only get the details that are absolutely necessary; everything else is filler.
Let's compare Mario to another blue-collar hero with a long history of getting caught up in unique scenarios: Homer J. Simpson. Homer's been an astronaut, a snow-plow driver, a farmer, a cop, a truck driver, a vigilante superhero, and dozens more diverse occupations, but on his business card it says "Nuclear Technician". Homer becomes whatever the episode requires, because the goal of each episode is comedy. Likewise, the goal of each Mario game is great gameplay. There was a time when The Simspons writers felt they had to explain why Homer wasn't at work each week, and they eventually abandoned that because they were too restricted. If every single game had to explain why Mario wasn't running a plumbing service in Brooklyn, everything would start to feel "samey", more so then it is now.
I prefer when they don't answer or even acknowledge those questions and instead treat the scenario and/or mechanics as if they've always been there. When you start to pay attention to a series's continuity, you start to run into problems. No better example exists than comic books; the very early ones had their superheroes coming up with new inventions or powers every month to overcome their current predicament, and this would lead to them needing reboots every ten years to normalize their abilities. I believe the term is "power creep". Superman at one time had super hypnosis, and was a super-genuis scientist.
How does this relate to Mario? Well, if he didn't have a princess to save every two years eventually the stakes would keep getting higher and higher until he'd be duking it out on an alien world with the intergalactic warlord who destroyed his home planet right before Mario became the legendary Super-Saiyan. The plots of every Mario game are roughly the same, but they are still all amazing games without evolving character arcs, storylines or anything else of that literary dribble.
Not to say I don't like games with compelling storylines and emotional engagement, but you don't need a good story to be emotionally engaging. Case in point: Portal, and the Companion Cube. Nintendo even accomplished this in Yoshi's Island, where Mario was a useless wailing brat but you still felt compelled to protect him. At least, I did.
Gordon Freeman, who has no personality other than "Left-Click to swing Crowbar", is the star of one of the most cinematic and unforgettable games of all time. And Half-Life 2 is barely recognizable as a sequel to Half-Life.
Even so, a Mario "reboot" could be done without completing reinventing the character or making its stories more complex. I've said this before, but I'd love to see a new Super Mario Bros cartoon, and I think a good show to emulate would be Adventure Time. Its storytelling is very barebones, its mythology at times inconsistent, and new characters, settings, and physical forces are introduced as quickly as they are forgotten about. A thought exercise: replace Finn with Mario, Jake with Luigi, and Princess Bubblegum with Princess Peach, and tell me it doesn't have the same feel as one of the Mario games.
Even a Mario film reboot could be done without all that nonsense the Super Mario Bros. Movie bothered with; look to Pixar's Wall-E or Up! for inspiration. Wreck-It Ralph was a great movie, but it suffered from trying to explain too much and stay consistent with its own lore. Wall-E was a walking trash compactor; yet we were emotionally engaged with him despite his being unrelatable. We see Carl's entire life in the first 20 minutes of Up!, but you couldn't name anything but the broadest details of it.
I've honestly lost where I was going with this post if you hadn't noticed it by now. My point is, a backstory isn't necessary for a character like Mario. Hell, in any great story, you should only get the details that are absolutely necessary; everything else is filler.
This thread is boiling down to Nintendo fan fic, and as an outsider to the Nintendo love it's like I'm a party to something I don't understand. But, back to the topic at hand. Nintendo will never do anything bold or controversial with Mario. It's their cash cow and the rock upon which the company stands. They just don't have the balls.