Nintendo Needs To Reboot Mario and Luigi

Ashadowpie

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no Mario and Luigi dont need a reboot, they need a nice long quiet vacation.

Nintendo spits out an identical mario twin 3 times a year, take a breather why dont cha? jeez

i love mario games but they need to slow down with the games coming out.

take a screen shot of every side scroller Mario game from New Mario Bros Wii to DS, 3DS and New Mario bros Wii U and you'll find its the same game over and over but they say its "new"

doesnt Nintendo think im blind or summit?
 

theultimateend

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Lazy said:
mjc0961 said:
An open world style Mushroom Kingdom? Yes please.
You know, if they gave us something somewhat in the vein of Prince of Persia 2008 with a bunch of platforming sections spread out through an open world, I would be up for it.
Mario 64 without loading screens would be boss.

I've always thought a "Super Mario Kingdom" game would be fantastic. The story doesn't need to be overtly complicated.

I really liked Super Mario RPG and the subversion of Bowser becoming a hero. If they ran with that again and brought in a new villain that would be super cool. Maybe have Mario start destroying bowser's castles and his people only to find out Bowser has done nothing and that Mario has made a huge mistake.

Let him come to terms with being a prick >.>.

Splitzi said:
This thread is boiling down to Nintendo fan fic, and as an outsider to the Nintendo love it's like I'm a party to something I don't understand. But, back to the topic at hand. Nintendo will never do anything bold or controversial with Mario. It's their cash cow and the rock upon which the company stands. They just don't have the balls.
Super Mario RPG wasn't something bold? >.>

How about the original Super Paper Mario RPG?

Either of those were fantastic and different from platformers. Luigi's Mansion (and the 3DS one) are both excellent games for the Greener side of things.

Mario has been (in my opinion) doing great things up until Super Mario Galaxy 1. After that it was like their brain burst and its been overly safe nonsense for years now.
 

vid87

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Clovus said:
The idea of "rebooting" Mario is terrible, but rebooting the world he is in could be interesting. The surreal aspects of the original game have lost that effect over time. Mario fights a fairly similar set of enemies each time. To some degree, the worlds aren't surprising at all. In fact, playing a newer Mario title is comfortable.

So, the change I would want to see is having the traditional Mario end up in a completely different World. One that brings back that surreal feeling you got from the Super Mario Brothes. The US Super Mario Brothers 2 was totally surreal as well, since it was actually all based on a completely different game. After Super Mario 3 things have been very samey. So, Nintendo, how about creating something so weird that even jaded gamers have no idea what is going on.
I like that idea of going the SM2 route - same characters, new world and play style.

Your comment just on "rebooting the world" though made me realize the wealth of plot threads and possibilities the franchise keeps starting but never capitalizes on, which makes me think they shouldn't so much reboot as bring about a major event that acts as a turning point for its universe. I mean, what if Bowser finally became permanently good? What if a game showed where Wario and Waluigi came from (clones? from a parallel dimension? What does that mean if Mario + Luigi are Earthlings?)? What if Rosaline fro Galaxy, a character with one of the most fleshed-out back-stories in the series, became a regular fixture like Daisy instead of a one-off who (I think) doesn't appear in the sequel? She's practically a demi-god: the stars themselves call her mom. Shouldn't she have some impact somewhere? Hell, do we even know the actual layout of the Mushroom Kingdom? What if it and the land of Doki-Doki Panic were neighbors and the original characters who were cut for Mario and the others actually showed up sometime? (everything else did!)
 

Negatempest

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Scribblesense said:
I've never really needed any sort of emotional fulfillment from Mario games other than pure joy, so I don't see how expanding his backstory could help the core games at all. I do like the direction Nintendo takes, where they give them the necessary competence to fill any role a game might require.

Let's compare Mario to another blue-collar hero with a long history of getting caught up in unique scenarios: Homer J. Simpson. Homer's been an astronaut, a snow-plow driver, a farmer, a cop, a truck driver, a vigilante superhero, and dozens more diverse occupations, but on his business card it says "Nuclear Technician". Homer becomes whatever the episode requires, because the goal of each episode is comedy. Likewise, the goal of each Mario game is great gameplay. There was a time when The Simspons writers felt they had to explain why Homer wasn't at work each week, and they eventually abandoned that because they were too restricted. If every single game had to explain why Mario wasn't running a plumbing service in Brooklyn, everything would start to feel "samey", more so then it is now.

I prefer when they don't answer or even acknowledge those questions and instead treat the scenario and/or mechanics as if they've always been there. When you start to pay attention to a series's continuity, you start to run into problems. No better example exists than comic books; the very early ones had their superheroes coming up with new inventions or powers every month to overcome their current predicament, and this would lead to them needing reboots every ten years to normalize their abilities. I believe the term is "power creep". Superman at one time had super hypnosis, and was a super-genuis scientist.

How does this relate to Mario? Well, if he didn't have a princess to save every two years eventually the stakes would keep getting higher and higher until he'd be duking it out on an alien world with the intergalactic warlord who destroyed his home planet right before Mario became the legendary Super-Saiyan. The plots of every Mario game are roughly the same, but they are still all amazing games without evolving character arcs, storylines or anything else of that literary dribble.

Not to say I don't like games with compelling storylines and emotional engagement, but you don't need a good story to be emotionally engaging. Case in point: Portal, and the Companion Cube. Nintendo even accomplished this in Yoshi's Island, where Mario was a useless wailing brat but you still felt compelled to protect him. At least, I did.

Gordon Freeman, who has no personality other than "Left-Click to swing Crowbar", is the star of one of the most cinematic and unforgettable games of all time. And Half-Life 2 is barely recognizable as a sequel to Half-Life.

Even so, a Mario "reboot" could be done without completing reinventing the character or making its stories more complex. I've said this before, but I'd love to see a new Super Mario Bros cartoon, and I think a good show to emulate would be Adventure Time. Its storytelling is very barebones, its mythology at times inconsistent, and new characters, settings, and physical forces are introduced as quickly as they are forgotten about. A thought exercise: replace Finn with Mario, Jake with Luigi, and Princess Bubblegum with Princess Peach, and tell me it doesn't have the same feel as one of the Mario games.

Even a Mario film reboot could be done without all that nonsense the Super Mario Bros. Movie bothered with; look to Pixar's Wall-E or Up! for inspiration. Wreck-It Ralph was a great movie, but it suffered from trying to explain too much and stay consistent with its own lore. Wall-E was a walking trash compactor; yet we were emotionally engaged with him despite his being unrelatable. We see Carl's entire life in the first 20 minutes of Up!, but you couldn't name anything but the broadest details of it.

I've honestly lost where I was going with this post if you hadn't noticed it by now. My point is, a backstory isn't necessary for a character like Mario. Hell, in any great story, you should only get the details that are absolutely necessary; everything else is filler.
Enjoying a game for it's mechanics instead of it's story? Could you ever imagine any other game like that? Not including Megaman, Street Fighter 2, Final Fight, Streets of Rage, Sonic, Bomberman, Turtles in Time, Road Rash, Shinobi3, Toe Jam and Earl, Aero Fighter, Metal Slug, Killer Instinct, Tekken 1-3, Contra, want me to go on?

The point being, for me anyways, is that I can depend on Nintendo to at least be a company that would put gameplay/mechanics over story when I need a game to enjoy to not focus on the story. So what if it's the same story again with new mechanics, I hardly see any other developer creating an action/adventure game, an RPG, a platformer, a puzzle game, any where near as frequently as they used to in the ps2 days. It's all just boiled down to being a shooter nowadays with some different mechanics thrown in, but a shooter mostly by the end of the day.
 

Innegativeion

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I respect the hell out of ya Yahtzee, but I've always disagreed on a lot of what you have to say about Nintendo.

Mario needs a gritty reboot in the same way Mickey Mouse needs one. (And no Kingdom Hearts isn't all that gritty)

I'll give you that the series could stand to benefit from more worldbuilding in the main series platformers. The RPGs actually do this quite well, with villagers going about their lives, interesting locales that take one to the different cultures of Mushroom World. Lots of named NPCs with nonstandard character designs as opposed to "just another goomba#1423" or "just another koopa#2351" etc. Even some histories, lore and mythos.

More of that in the platformers would be fantastic. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We just need to, as you mention about Luigi, give Mario and his crew some more detailed personality traits, and consistency in the world.

This is actually the main reason why I hate Sticker Star (though there are others...), it basically tossed all those good things I mentioned two paragraphs ago into the shitter.

That's all in respect to narrative, of course. As for mechanics? Ugh... just stop making NSMB for like, 5 years minimum.
 

Big_Boss_Mantis

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Aiddon said:
that's....impossible. Mario doesn't really HAVE a continuity, explaining stuff ABOUT Mario, Peach, and the Mushroom Kingdom would be stupid (in the same vein of trying to make elaborate backstories about Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, or Donald Duck), and an image change would be even MORE stupid. There's no reason for a reboot. Heck, the only Nintendo series I think even has a POSSIBILITY of a reboot is Metroid because that series is dependent on it being the life story of its ONE protagonist whose lifespan is finite.
That's exactly it.
Not EVERY game needs to be about storytelling and character arcs.
Mario is perfectly fine being a game about jumping, power ups and traversing colorful stages. I works on 2D, it works on 3D, it works as a karting game, as an party game. As a fighting game. It JUST works.
So, really, of all things. WHY it needs storytelling?

The game mechanics are simple and intuitive. Children, girlfriends, hardcore, casual, mothers, EVERYONE can play it and have fun.
Maybe it is not that innovative? Well it has been kicking for THIRTY YEARS. PEOPLE aren't very innovative after 30 years. Nothing is.
Still, it does try.

I love Mario 64, I love Galaxy. And YES, I love New Super Mario Bros, because, to me, it is on of the BEST couch co-op games ON THE MARKET. Really! Doesn't require split screen. It is competitive AND cooperative on the fly.
Do you need more inovation than that?
Playing NSMB Wii with two players is a blast (I don't have an Wii U yet).
I play constantly with my wife. And can equally play with my children in the future.
Rayman Origins isn't that fun with two players. (game's a little more hard and technical)
I find Lego games to be too simple (THOSE really lack innovation).
Little Big Planet comes close as an very enjoyable 2 player couch coop experience.

Yahtzee complains about "innovation for the sake of innovation". How about "storytelling for the sake of storytelling"?
Some of the best games of old didn't needed story. I don't think every game needs it.!
 

Chuppi

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"Peach must be another migrant from Earth who long ago kicked some arse John Carter of Mars style until they made her the leader."


Are we both talking about that pink clad bimbo, who can´t go to the crapper without needing to be rescued afterwards ?
 

Canadamus Prime

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Nonononononono! I hate dark, dystopian reboots! Esp. when the source material is a bright and colourful as the Mario Bros. A reboot isn't a bad idea, just not a dark dystopian one.
 

Darth_Payn

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Zachary Amaranth said:
WanderingFool said:
Anyways, Im still waiting for that Mario FPS I was promised...

(and related picture)

Is Luigi using a P-90? More reason to like him.

More importantly, does the star on Mario's firearm mean he's invincible?

EstrogenicMuscle said:
Those of us who buy millions of copies of Mario games, do so because we don't want to buy millions of copies of Call of Duty.
I don't think it has to be either/or.
Yes! FanimeCon! Those are some of the best costumes I've seen there.
OT: I don't think the words "gritty" or "ironic" mean anything in this situation, or at all. There's too much crap with those descriptions already.
 

The_Echo

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I think a alt-universe retelling of the Mario story would be really cool, actually.

Like, what if we gave Mario a sort of Alice in Wonderland/Digimon spin?

Mario, a portly, largely unimportant working man, drowning in mundanity and the stresses of middle-age. Working day-in day-out in a large, unforgiving and most of all uncaring city to make ends meet. His only friend or family a lanky coward of a brother who really isn't around much anyway.

On a day he feels he has nothing to lose, Mario decides "fuck it" and tries some of those fancy psychadelic mushrooms. The resulting trip brings him into a fantastical realm of color and wonder and magic. A place where, suddenly, he's capable of great feats of strength and agility. Where he can feel important and worth the space he takes up. What's more, the beautiful princess of this strange place depends on him to keep the order.

The Mushroom Kingdom is then revealed to be not a place of Mario's imagination, but a real alternate universe, with Mario's initial trip opening a portal between the two. Bowser figures if he can't take the Mushroom Kingdom, maybe this new world would be right up his alley.

And then we have Super Mario fighting Giga Bowser in a New York analogue destroying buildings and shit and it'd be so cool you guys.

I don't even care if that hypothetical game turned out to be good or not. I'd buy it anyway.
 

Something Amyss

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FFP2 said:
I seriously doubt that he is a brony.
He's totally a brony. Come on.

Darth_Payn said:
Yes! FanimeCon! Those are some of the best costumes I've seen there.
They're certainly funny as hell.

OT: I don't think the words "gritty" or "ironic" mean anything in this situation, or at all. There's too much crap with those descriptions already.
And irony has been done to death to the point that ironic is practically unironic.

You know, like rain. on your wedding day.
 

Olas

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Yahtzee, you may not think the Mario games have much originality, but at least the series itself is pretty unique compared to most. I don't think a gritty reboot, set in a dystopian world, with an origin story that frames Mario as a fish-out-of-water turned unlikely hero, is the most original new approach you could take.

Also, anyone else feel like they started reading the script for a MDF episode?
 

ZippyDSMlee

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A full reboot? No Take Mario 64 expand it to zelda size add towns, add basic equipment (better armor,better jumping,better special item usage,ect). Make it where you keep special items and wear them like a suit but can be changed at anytime. Things like that would be awesome...no more small world BS I hated galaxy.....
 

Chuppi

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An alternative Reality,like in the Marvel Comics.
Mario´s own "Days of Future Past".
 

Bbleds

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Mainly when I was a kid,I felt like the movie did kind of capture the whole bizarre feel of the mario franchise. Even to this day when I look back at it I still scratch my head thinking "Wow, that is really freaking weird". On top of it being the funny kind of bad.

Hey while we are on the subject do you know what would be really off the wall? If they found an adult film star that looked similar to mario and made a........oh wait, yeah. Think someone has already got to that idea.
 

Vausch

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You want a good Super Mario Bros. reboot that feels like it's a unique spin while also paying fair tribute to the source material?


Get to work, Nintendo.
 

SD-Fiend

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firmicute said:
and maybe peach could be more that an object to get`?

maybe peach could save them? or even change roles and peach and bowser are the heroes...
i mean, if you reboot it, you could make her the leading role and that would rock hard.^^
peach is riding the yosho-mobile and battling two madmen who became greedy as they gained powers. she gets help by one old man, called b. owser.
Super Princess peach already exists. And unless you mean that Mario and Luigi become evil (which would be stupid) then they were already heroes in the Paper Mario series. And that idea may sound good in your head but it sounds quite awful on paper.

I really don't understand why it would need to be a reboot. The games don't have a long story that goes across games like Legend of Zelda or Devil May Cry so there isn't any real continuity for any of the games. why couldn't they just make a new game where you play as mario in a different setting? Isn't that what the paper mario series is?
 

FallenMessiah88

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Sure why not. However, right now I don't see why Nintendo needs to do this. While there's nothing wrong with reinventing yourself, there's also nothing wrong with simply refining your formula.
 

Headsprouter

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Honestly?

[http://media.photobucket.com/user/sickedpoole/media/goomba.jpg.html]

I kind of like this reimagining of Goombas. Looks like a boss from Crash Bandicoot. Imagine if all of the enemies/bosses from Mario had a Crash Bandicoot style...hmmm..

Piranha plants would be boss, for sure.