Nintendo Says No To Same Sex Relationships For Tomodachi Miis

[Fox12]

Oh look, more of Nintendo altering their content because they don't want to piss off some ignorant, if not bigoted, parent who might see that the game they're playing has people who aren't heterosexual and cisgender. I understand why they do it, and its bottomline over ethics, but its totally within my rights, and reasonable, to condemn them for stuff like this. And yes, I know, they have potentially one gay romance between Ike and Soren and an openly gay woman, Heather (who, by the way, was more or less stalking the person she was infatuated with, as the object of her affection did not reciprocate), in Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. I'll chalk that up on the "Pro-LGBT" side where it can be lonely by itself, and put Nintendo's long history of censoring LGBT-content on the "Con" side, along with a repeated history of knowing that things like this very Tamodachi thing were very much wanted, but not fulfilled because they'd rather play it safe than release a game to children that has a positive image for LGBT kids to look up to.

and the lovely term " Your either with us or against us" thrown around isn't what people fighting for the "Right" side do.

Uh, you might want to check out the history of the Civil Rights movement, the Women's Rights movement, and the Gay Rights movement in American history. Shit didn't change because people say on their thumbs while mildly suggesting to people that maybe they shouldn't be such meanies towards them.

Not really. It's possible to be completely neutral on a subject, but if you want to play the "you're either with us or against us card" you certainly can. Just be aware that when you force everyone on the sidelines to pick a side, they may not pick yours, especially when you're so antagonistic. When you're grabbing people who didn't care one way or another about the issue, and throwing them in with your opposition, you're making enemies, not friends. Those groups were never going to weigh in on the issue, but now you've already labeled them your enemies. Nintendo didn't do anything against the gay community, but now there are people talking about boycotts. Whose being ugly to who?

I'm not usually sided with the Nintendo Defense Force fellas, since I have a lot of problems with the company, but this certainly isn't one of them. Nintendo just wants to mind its own damn business, and that's completely fine. When Nintendo starts funding anti-gay organizations, then we can start pointing fingers.

 

[Eve Charm]

Do a word search for "bigot", "hate", and "homophob" on every page in this thread. Wanna know how many times any of those were thrown at Nintendo?

Once. Just one time. And I disagree with that statement. Nintendo isn't homophobic, they're simply appeasing them. And I iterate again, I'm not exactly best-buddy-pals with somebody who has a history of putting a convenient relationship with homophobes ahead of respecting me as a human being.

Hmm ya I wonder why this huge thread full of people aren't all screaming boycott and bigot at nintendo, Oh I can think of two, First the person that's behind the whole movement thing THIS HERE is against boycotting nintendo and calling it a bigot, and second this is about a VIDEO GAME.

This hasn't been a fight vs pro LGBT vs anti, no this is for some reason a fight vs sensible people with a cause anyone that hasn't been living under a rock, can easily get behind, just including more relationship types no matter if your LGBT or not, VS a bunch of stark raving mad Pro LGBT that most didn't even take the time to read up on it, Just see it as another spot to Push their real life agenda.

Like I said before, I have no stake in the LGBT side, this has no barring on me even if I buy the game. But hey I saw some guy that obviously did his homework on the matter ((a lot more then the reporters)) ask for something added that isn't in the game now, either later in a patch or put it in a squeal, Ya why not, thumbs up to that guy. But if you think for one second I'm hear to support and push radical "your with us or against us" Hate or "your not supporting so your the problem" BS trying to get thrown on top, No, No i'm not.

But as a gamer I'm offended people can take something about a game, completely strip away all ties to the game aspect and dump their SJW BS on top so high no one can even see the original idea anymore and think they are "Helping the cause." I haven't even seen a single article of anyone saying anything AGAINST miiquialty. There is no one fighting this! This really is just theirs to ruin, and they are doing a good job at it.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

Well, that's one more company to add to the block list for homophobia.

Such a shame, I really liked Nintendo too.

Well...I don't think you over-reacted quite hard enough here. Maybe a mass protest, death threats or burning buildings down is in order?

No, all I did was just stop buying Nintendo stuff and throw out all the Nintendo products I have (hardware and games and that's it.)

I'm not going to do something drastic like that.

Wouldn't a more sensible move be simply following MiiQuality's suggestion and using the Club Nintendo Survey to campaign for a same sex DLC or more likely a Same Sex couple feature in the sequel?

They don't listen, they just like to say they do.

If we want our voice heard we need to get together and appropriately boycott their products. They listen to the sound of money going down the drain.

I propose a different alternative: MOVE!

Come to Canada, get married to your lover, and settle down. Health care for everyone!
Options exist for you to live in a place where you are accepted and treated equally, just drive North for a while. My Uncles are happily married, and holiday dinners at heir house are awesome.

Of course, the Holidays are awesome because they are busy being happy together instead of projecting their misery in the name of a worthy cause.

Also if you REALLY REALLY want a video-game where you can role-play your sexuality, (or any others you fell like exploring)
they exist. Some created for just this purpose.

Finally: So you literally THREW AWAY all your Nintendo products? o_0 I call bullshit.

 

[Cybylt]

Those who are "boycotted" aren't exactly hurting from it seeing as there's incredibly little overlap between the community and the business so what change has been wrought other than people typing up how offended they are?

Got any numbers to prove this? Because boycotts like the Mozilla one wouldn't have worked if this wasn't true.

It takes a physical presence to actually get something done and as long as people feel change is done with an angry post that's not going to happen. It's simply a delusion and it is why a growing number of people get tired of hearing about it on either end.

Ever read MLK's Letter from Birmingham? His, and many other's, words had motivated an entire civil rights movement. Somehow I don't think many protesters and boycotters met them. Additionally, money, or the lack thereof, certainly has a tangible presence.

Chick-Fil-A saw a massive boost in popularity following the controversy before settling in within the top 15 fast food chains when the general public stopped giving a shit and moved on to the next big thing.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/traditional-values-pay-chick-fil-a-makes-record-breaking-profits-after-marr
http://www.qsrmagazine.com/reports/qsr50-2013-top-50-chart
http://www.forbes.com/sites/caroltice/2013/08/30/million-dollar-burger-the-most-lucrative-fast-food-restaurants/

The batshit president hasn't really done anything to hurt them. The only real piece on them in 2014 is how they fed and gave shelter to people during the january freeze.

Mozilla was already a progressive company, like I said they didn't change their stance. Even then they didn't care until other companies took issue with it and actually blocked the use of the browser on their sites. That wasn't a boycott, that was a corporate block out. Up until then they defended his appointment and he even spoke that his personal beliefs would not change how the company is run in regard to supporting all users.

The audience of Duck Dynasty and the progressive community as a whole have zero overlap and you're lying to yourself if you suggest otherwise. The most that came of it was for a while the station added a little "these people don't represent our views" notif.

If anything more people took offense to him being fired because it undermines freedom of expression and political agency in the work force. OkCupid took down the browser block afterward not because they thought something right was done, but because they wanted to apologize for how screwed up that was.

You ignored the phrase "physical presence", didn't you? Tens if not hundreds of millions of people marched, gathered, protested and otherwise supported the movement in person in the case of Dr. King... and basically all of that decade really. That's the key difference, the letter on its own or passed around King's friends would have done fuck all, you need a lot of people making a physical effort to actually get shit done.

 

[Sarge034]

Tomodachi Life - "your friends, your drama, your life"

Unless your life and/or drama includes homosexuality...? I don't understand why companies market products as giving players agency and then tell them they can't do things.

 

[Olas]

So maybe my opinion(s) is the counter to special pleading (special defaming?), but the fact that this powerhouse of a brand people associate with their youth and a company people hold in high regard, just sort of goes; 'homosexuality is a bug, you're all weird', I can imagine how people would be offended by that. People tried being nice and level with them, but companies only ever seem to respond to bad press.

Yes, because they totally said "homosexuality is a bug, you're all weird". That's not at all just you twisting around the words of the article to form a completely original sentence with a completely different meaning than ANYTHING Nintendo said. Because when you having nothing real to criticize about Nintendo, it's better to just MAKE SHIT UP.

And enough about this fucking bug. The bug crashed the game, even this biased and misleading article says as much. It screwed up the game's menu and allowed male characters to get pregnant. It was an unintentional technical glitch that had never been a planned part of the game at any point to begin with. WHY IS IT EVEN RELEVENT TO THIS DISCUSSION!?!?!? If you're going to criticize Nintendo, criticize them for not choosing to make homosexual relationships a part of the game to begin with, not for fixing a technical issue.

This game is UTTER discrimination. There is no option suited to the needs of objectophiles like myself! The sleek, curved sides of a porcelain cup, the sharp, dangerous, yet ever so delicate frayed wire edges of a cut power cord... This is NOT OKAY! I demand my sexual preferences are appreciated by EVERY game I play and EVERY movie I watch!

The gaming industry is a vile den of discrimination! Mass Effect didn't have ANY suitable relationship options for an objectophile such as myself! There were so many items I wanted as my own, but NONE it would allow me to fornicate with!

And now THIS! A children's game that doesn't let me penetrate the wall with my lusty ardor! SICK!

Agreed, but they should also make the portrayal of the objects respectable and actually give them some character. I'm sick of the way games objectify objects.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Maybe it's just me, it could be, but I am getting the feeling a lot of our peers in this thread don't actually play many video-games. Because they can't be crazy well informed, I can name quite a few gay characters from Nintendo games, I am struggling to think of any first party Sony or Microsoft ones.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

Gay marriage isn't even legal in Japan. Why would you ask from a japanese company to make it legal in a game that was made for Japan in the first place?
Also why conveniently ignore the fact that the bug from 2013 allowed for male character to get pregnant?

I'm gay myself and I don't care that a quirky little game for kids doesn't have gay marriage. I have bigger issues than a Nintendo game not allowing my male virtual character to marry another male virtual character.

I don't think this is out of malice or anything, Nintendo just has a long tradition of not wanting to be yelled at by religious nut jobs. They didn't like any religious iconography on games released on their systems, they had midway remove the blood from Mortal Kombat 1, and they wouldn't allow Binding of Issac to be released on the ds or 3ds.

When it comes to issues of LGBTQ, if you're not with us then you're part of the problem.

The biggest issue being faced is apathy or indifference to the issue and having it be ignored.

That's bullshit and nothing else.
People who attack everyone and anyone just because they aren't on your side are the biggest part of the problem because you make even more enemies than friends. Instead of staying neutral, they will even go to the opposite side because you tried to demonize them for not having a formed opinion. Who the fuck do you think you are to be allowed to keep attacking people?
Every argument has 3 sides, not 2.
Those who are for, those who are against and those who are neutral. As soon as you try forcing the neutral side on your side, you're making enemies. Because of your attacking of the neutral side, I who live in a second world country have more problems because people look at you and think "all faggots are like that, they deserve no rights". Why do they look at you as an example? Because you're usually the loudest.

 

[MrMan999]

You know, I think it needs to be said. Context. Is. Everything. I absolutely hate it when people jump into a controversy without hearing both sides or doing their research first. MiiQuality specifically said not to call for a boycott and what do people do, call for a boycott. Nintendo has stated that the whole thing was a game breaking glitch with the transfer systems, which would do the following, delete save data, physically damage the 3DS system, and cause male Miis to become pregnant. It had nothing to do with gay couples and the lack thereof. Would it be nice if Nintendo had added same sex mii couples? Yeah it would, but heres the thing, the game was already finished and shipped in Japan when it was patched. There was literally nothing Nintendo could do at the time. Have people learned nothing from the Cancel Colbert fiasco?

 

[Vareoth]

Not really that surprised considering Japan's legal position on the subject matter. Calls for a complete boycott are overblown in my opinion but everyone can do as they like.

Also, not having gay relationships in a game I'm never going going to play fills me with nothing but apathy. Now if this was about Persona 5 however...

 

[tmande2nd]

Well it is their game so they get to decide what they do with it.
Its up to the consumer to decide if they get a game, not what gets put into a game.

Dont like it, dont buy it.
Simple.

 

[Vareoth]

That's fine. If it's for children and all ages, same sex relationships are not right or acceptable.

I think you've shown your cards a bit early there. Unless I misunderstood which can sometimes be the case.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

If you're going to criticise Nintendo, criticise them for not choosing to make homosexual relationships a part of the game to begin with, not for fixing a technical issue.

I thought that was what I was trying to say, guess it's hard to read though with all that steam shooting out of your ears and blurring your vision.

But more or less I can at least read the tone of your posts, and fathom that some things are just better left alone.

And not a single fuck (well maybe one or two) was given that day. Not like I've got a vested interest in Nintendo's future.

 

[Dragonbums]

You want to know what's the funniest thing about this whole situation? It's shaping up to be EXACTLY like the chic-fil-a incident. I have already seen an overwhelming amount of comments of people saying they will buy this game because it didn't have gay marriage in it and it pissed of the LGBTQ+ crowd. Won't that be fucking ironic.

Mostly lurking this thread as I have trouble voicing my opinions in a way that makes sense to others. I just wanted to say, in regards to this post, that I hope people don't think Nintendo is endorsing what they're saying in regards to them (being the anti-LGBTQ people) buying it.

They shouldn't think so since Nintendo's official comment was that they never meant to endorse either side of the argument. They just wanted to port over the fucking game and get it over with. But since this whole thing has spiraled out of control due to misinformation and soapbox controversy it doesn't surprise me that people actually think as such.

HOWEVER the fact that LGBTQ+ extremists blew this out of proportion and claimed THEMSELVES that Nintendo is against LGBTQ+ relationships and marriage many people against their cause or people who just like to see them get pissed off are now going on about praising the game for not having this feature with a few of them saying they are now putting their money behind it.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

That's fine. If it's for children and all ages, same sex relationships are not right or acceptable.
Children should not be shown more than the basics till they are 14.
It's sounds like it's a fun game, lightweight. Not a bloody social commentary!

By feigning something approaching reality (i.e., relationships), then excluding a segment of said reality (that there are same-sex relationships) you are making a social commentary. You are saying that these relationships are not as genuine or deserving of attention as others.

No company is obligated to crowbar in things that don't belong. No one is obliged to pander to the fake activists and attention seekers. If they want to have only heterosexual relaitonships, then they have every right to do that!

They are throwing a hissyfit because nintendo ar'nt pandering to their every whim and demand.

And just as Nintendo has every right to do that, the consumer has every right to complain, and then not buy the product.

Apparently the nature of japan goes right over their heads. A country that does not allow same sex marriage is not going to include it in a childrens game. Were it should never be to begin with.

But the game includes opposite-sex relationships. Are you saying that same-sex ones are more 'adult'?

Seriously, THIS is what bothers them?! There are actual real problems that could be tackled, but no, they're whining about a game?!
That's fake activists for you. They don't care about the real cause or real problems, they just want attention.

This isn't a problem on the scale of people being murdered for being gay etc., but it is a major cultural product that invariably influences the opinion of many (including children as you keep saying), with the subtle suggestion being that there is no room for gay people or their relationships in our society.

 

[Dragonbums]

The way you word same sex marriage being completely illegal sounds like it could lead to larger consequences than "just" a PR problem, or is that just me reading too much into it?

I think you might be over thinking it. Sorry if I made it sound more dramatic than what it really was. But yeah, gay marriage is illegal there and while nothing bad will happen to Nintendo necessarily considering how a little less than half of the population aren't even for gay marriage, I don't think Nintendo wants to be at odds with practically half of their home country. It could lead to financial woes AND bad PR.

As someone else stated elsewhere Nintendo is under no obligation to be your personal Social justice crusader.

Afterall, the majority of games involve a large amount of other illegal activities and while they're not encouraged in real life, it doesn't mean this game has to encourage same sex marriage as much as just show that it's an option.

But those illegal activities aren't crushed by very heavy political fire and deeply held traditions. This is like Nintendo endorsing things like abortion in games. They just aren't going to touch that stuff with a 10 foot pole. Even that being an option is enough to spark a fire they don't want to get in to. Of course they ALSO said to the Miiquality guys (the only reasonable people in this entire fiasco) that they would perhaps do this in later games. So maybe I'm making this out to be more than what it really is. Maybe they will make that an option for Westerners only. Who knows? Chances are none of this will happen because they won't port the next installment over here after this incident.

Laws like these are usually old and out of date with current times, so it's not unreasonable to imagine that it'll be brought up or considered soon in their government (when they have less disasters to deal with).
I'm just trying to get a better picture of what might actually happen if they decided to do it (besides the PR nightmare, which I respect).

We will never know until things actually happen, but for the current environment in Japan right now I can understand where Nintendo is coming from by being neutral as possible. This isn't America where you can be a fucking crusader on anything and be labeled a national hero. Shit doesn't work like that. Nintendo is already in boiling water for something they didn't anticipate to blow up this badly.

A company like Nintendo pushing the issue like this could go a long way to change things - That being said I don't expect them to perform such a gesture.

It can go a long way. The key word though is can. And you need to consider again that the Japanese home base not might be so forgiving on that. Nintendo never strikes me of making bold political statements like this in their games. If they are making statements it's usually through Easter Eggs. Like the Post-Op transwomen in Pokemon X and Y whom you can fight in the battle maison. Which already implies for the most part that the company itself doesn't have issues on it. They are just remaining silent at best- neutral at worst. Which according to some people in this thread automatically puts you in the "against us" category. Which is ridiculous.




It's an interesting debate though; They're in a position that could really make a difference, so whether or not that holds them, at least partially, responsible is a bit of a mindtwister.[/quote]

 

[ToastiestZombie]

It seems like a lot of people here went to the Fox News School of Interpreting Events. A game-breaking bug that just so happens allows gay marriage being fixed isn't "NINTENDO TREATING GAYS LIKE BUGS! and a decision not to add a feature that would require a lot of coding into a port that Nintendo's making just to test the waters isn't Nintendo actively removing gay marriage just to spite the LGBT community.

 

[Dragonbums]

Went and watched some gameplay videos of this yesterday. And a lot of people are using the "keep the gay away from kids" argument.

From what I saw, Tromaguchi isn't a game for kids. The FULL extent of the game is looking at a Mii, reading a list of their likes/dislikes, and giving them food to fill their stomach icon.

There's none of the learning aspects of children's games. Nor any entertainment features that would keep a child's attention.

Domowasabi is clearly a game for lonely adults who need a virtual relationship to fill a void in their lives. And while there could be gay gamers who have that need, none that I've known have been that pathetic.

Considering how wildly popular it is in Japan perhaps this speaks a lot about the country?


haha I kid I kid. (Please don't take this seriously anyone watching this thread.)

 

[keniakittykat]

It's been 14 years since EA made a life simulation game and made it so characters could marry regardless of race, gender and even species. And no one minded at all. This was the sims.

And now, in 2014, Nintendo makes a "whimsical and quirky game" where love is restricted to the expectation of irrational ? Seems like a step backward to me.

 

[Requia]

snip

While I believe it's still within their right to make the game as they see fit, as is their want to avoid making social statements, I completely agree with you. There's no legitimate reason; beyond social stigmas; to not include these options.

I don't think they actually *can* avoid making social statements. If I understand the nature of the game not including the option is its own statement.