People who criticize other people's game preferences. I have no problem with the games as art crowd, but they keep calling me dumb simply because I prefer fun games. It's not like there's no art games out there, there are lots. And this is not the only battle either. What's with the stupid ass hardcore vs casual thing? If you want difficult games, then buy difficult games. Look through trailers and reviews to see which ones will chew you up and spit you out from start to finish and leave people who just want to play for fun alone.
Edit: So many people saying they can't understand religious people. Here is a slightly logical answer:
If [insert deity here] does exist: you will go to heaven or be reborn as a cow or something.
If it doesn't exist: doesn't matter now that you're dead, does it?
Whenever anyone pulls that I use this response (forgot who came up with it)
Be a good person.
If there is a god, and they are just, you will go to heaven.
If there is a god, and they are unjust, they are not worthy of worship.
If there is no god, then you helped make the world a better place.
While an atheist I can see why people would follow one religion or other. It gives you answers, nicely pre-packaged, and you can go on with your life without worrying about the big, scary questions. I preffer to tackle these head-on myself, but to each thier own.
What I don't understand is when people in relationships cheat on eachother. Do you really have that little self controll that you cant keep it in your pants? For crying out loud OWN your decitions! Everything you chose to do, or not to do, is your choice and you need to learn to deal with it. Blaming it on a moment of weakness, or alchohol doesn't work for me. If you love and respect your partner, you wont betray thier trust. It's not that bloody hard is it?
Grr. Excuse me while I go find and punch some scumbags in the crotch.
Need I remind you I still referring to the fanart of the character not real life obese or muscular people as I stated before it's not my place to judge those. As far I see real life and fanart of cartoon or anime characters are seperate.
What do you mean by "it's ok to like things not accepted by the masses" since the whole brony culture is somewhat getting closer to be accepted by the people since there had been plenty of article praising the show. Yes there are still negative attitudes it but in my view such negative will not bring it down.)
Also yes I really should of spellcheck my spellings but it's getting late now which I'm getting tried.
Yeah arguement is really not my strong point (something I lack but want to be better at) so take it as you will. (Quote me again if you must and I do my best to reply back.)
You're right that it's slowly gaining acceptance, but the point I'm trying to make is that it just is ok to like things that are different. This should be evident due to the fact that when you got into ponies (which I'm vaguely certain is before I got into ponies), it wasn't yet accepted, and I imagine you didn't and still don't have any reservations about that fact. (Don't feel obligated to reply to that, I would push this point all night if you let me XD )
You want to get better at arguing? PM me any time - I give lessons for free. And you should think about coming to the pony chat tomorrow. I'm trying to start PhilosoFridays; we'll be talking about the mind-body problem (god-willing). You might pick up a few tips about structuring arguments, or get a chance to practice them yourself!
Religion. I can't wrap my head around willful delusions like that. Yes, I know it's not the popular stance to take, nor politically correct, but I just can't look at any of the religions I know and figure out why people believe in it. It's got the same factual weight as santa claus and makes about as much sense from any logical perspective and yet these religions are not only widespread beliefs but it's political and at times even social suicide to speak against them.
It's mindboggling to me. There's no scientifically backed indication of any of it having even a nugget of truth to it and yet it's 'narrowminded' or 'hateful' to point out the ridiculousness of it all.
I'll of course respect anyone's right to believe in these things, but the most aneurysm inducing part of it all is that there's no respect given to those who believe religion holds about as much water as a sieve.
The religious, I dont get how people can overlook the barbarity and outmoded moral concepts thats rife throughout religion. I dont get how these people can then say they hold the moral high ground, that as an atheist Im spiritually dead and morally suspect.
If Im totally honest it makes me very angry.
I think you guys tend to generalize religion and portray it in more of a bad light than it deserves. There are many things about religion that have benefits. Yes, there are negatives to religion, but there are negatives to everything. Yes, the more zealous religious folk can do some very immature and very mean things, but so can a very zealous atheist.
Religion, in general, should serve one purpose for people: comfort. This comfort comes in many ways. It may come as comfort living in a bad situation, or handed a bit bit of bad luck, wondering why that is. Isn't the thought that maybe some unknown force that maybe has your eventual best interest in mind a more soothing thought that just thinking that your life is shit for no reason? That maybe, you are suffering now, but after you die you will enter into a paradise so blissful it cannot be described? Also, doesn't the idea that someone shaped us in His image make us sound so much more important than such an insignificant speck in the confines of the universe?
Yes, in some ways, it is blocking out the truth, and I believe everyone should try to be as educated and knowledgable of the world as they can, but sometimes, people don't want to learn that they are insignificant and useless. That's a very depressing thought that makes everything they do seem meaningless. Sometimes, working for the goal of heaven makes the suffering of life more tolerable, and while I think being a zealot and willingly blocking out knowledge is indeed a problem, religion serves many comforting roles. Also, religion, while indeed outdated in many regards, has many timeless parables. The Golden Rule? Treat Others as You Would Want To Be Treated? Is that outdated? You may say that that should be common knowledge, but it isn't. Sometimes, we need a book to tell us so.
In addition, I think religion can be mixed with scientific thought. I believe that God is some sort of creator, but he does not intervene in our lives. He carves and places the dominoes, knocks the first one over, and then watches. He does not meddle in our affairs. He does not bring hurricanes, or suffering, or death. People and the natural causes of the Earth do. And while he may have created all of this, I believe mankind is slowly discovering how he did it. Every new discovery about the world is just uncovering more and more of God's design. It was already there, we are just discovering more pages of God's "How to Build a Universe" book. And not only does that reconcile the ideas of religion and science, it makes me excited for the pursuit of knowledge and science.
Finally, I agree with you on one point that I know you probably have: no, religion should not be used as some sort of reasoning for hate. That is unacceptable in any regard, for any mode of thinking. If science was somehow used as some sort of reasoning for hate, I would chastise those people just as quickly as I would someone who abused religion.
This is just a short version of why religion is not as bad as you make it out to be. I could discuss how it was influential in a historical standpoint, but you three seem to understand already. I don't want to sound pompous in this post, I just think religion gains more hate than it deserves, only because a number of close-minded fools abuse it, like they would abuse anything else.
Also,
Insanum said:
There are just two things I cant stand, People who are intolerant of other peoples races & beliefs, and the dutch.
The bad thing about that comfort from religion is that it turns people into zealots just so they have more comfort in their hearts. Overall I just can't believe all that comfort mess I know they world is bad really bad yet if there was an all holy being they wouldn't allow a majority of the shit humans do on a daily bases. Not to sound mean it's just I find those so desperate for comfort as weak spirited.
I gone... Well I pretty much forced to a baptist church when I was younger and it kinda pissed me off that people bought into the bullshit these "holy men" were speaking I just couldn't stand the reasoning to get up early to listen to 3 hours of dribble. I can 100% agree with the good will to man and not do stupid part yet the whole fairy tales and undertones of hate I just can't agree with at all.
I just can't understand atheists...Nothing against them, but I know that I wouldn't be able to go through life at all knowing that everything I've done was for nothing. Not to mention, I don't think I could have the heart to believe that NOTHING happens when you die...it makes me feel a little better thinking that I could live on somewhere, or be re-incarnated, or something. And...It's also nice to think that all this terrible shit happens for a grander plan, rather than just science and nature being an asshole.
Why do you think atheists believe what we do is "for nothing"?
I'm generally a nice guy, and if i help someone, why do i need to be motivated either by promise of paradise or threat of eternal damnation? How is a good deed i do "for nothing"? As secular humanist (in addition to my weak atheist position and my anticlericalism), i recognize an innate worth in good deeds. Just because i'm a materialist does not mean i'm a nihilist.
As to a belief in what happens after death - ever religion i've come accross until now has had some rules that simply did not fit well with my personal system of ethics. Thus, i could be religious & happy, and go to hell; or religious and unhappy, and go to heaven. Neither seems very appealing to me. In contrast, my unbelief in life after death brings me to the conclusion that i have this one, and only this one, life to do as best i can, and live as best i will. I may be somewhat hedonistic, but i'm really not faced with a feeling of impending doom or emptiness.
As to nature: it's not an asshole. It's indifferent, and not even that. It simply is. No reason not to enjoy its nicer sides.
On the other hand: If i believed all the things happening were part of a greater plan, i'd be really angry at the guy who made this plan. Lousy user support, faulty implementation, mission creep -- as a project manager, this hypothetical planner has failed.
... be right back, I gotta lie down and laugh for a while imagining Doctor Insano shouting "LOGIC!" at someone, shooting debate rays from his gloved hands.
I don't get people who don't accept when they've been logically proven wrong and refuse to add anything to the conversation after that, even an "Well, that may be, but I still feel this way."
I know that this is a well meaning topic, but we're on the escapist. On the escapist this topic translates to "let's all complain about how some people believe in God."
...you try to be, there's always that one thing you can't wrap your head around.
For me, it's people who aren't moved by music, people who are fine with listening to the radio or club music because it's easy to dance to or it's simple, people who don't go looking for music that inspires them or brings out all manner of emotion/feeling to the surface (be it joy, excitement, anger, passion etc). These are the things I can't accept/understand, no matter how wide I open my mind.
I think I'm your polar opposite here, I can't grasp how music is anything more than something to listen to, 9 times out of 10 being background noise, let alone the people that allow their music preferences to suggest how they act and dress it's just alien to me.
People who are unable to separate religion, which in of itself is a morally neutral concept, and the actions of the minority, yes minority, of individuals who have used religion as an excuse to push their own backward agendas. Throughout history there are in all probability far more examples of people being inspired to better themselves and do good deeds by their religion; and when you do get negative examples such as The Spanish Inquisition, or Islamic Extremism, then it's not as simple as just pointing and crying "See, THAT'S why all religions should die out! They only ever inspire hate and destruction." That fact is, it makes no difference whether these people do what they do in the name of religion, politics, or fucking salt if you want to be random with this analogy. The heart of the matter is, they do not represent what they claim to be representing. Flawed people can misinterpret or twist words and ideas written centuries ago by other flawed people to say whatever the hell they like. It's not the fault of the concept itself, the fault lies in the individual.
Also, for people who whinge about religion being illogical and lacking in evidence, so fucking what?! If you're so 'logical', then surely what should matter to you is not what people believe, but what they choose to do with what they believe. If someone is inspired to better themselves and help their fellow man be their faith, how illogical do you look turning found to them and telling them it all counts for nothing, just because they're acting in the name of something that has no scientific evidence to support it? I'm sorry, but the homeless person they'v just given food and shelter to for the night doesn't care about their motivations, so why should you?
This post was written by an atheist btw, before anyone accuses me of being biased.
I just can't understand atheists...Nothing against them, but I know that I wouldn't be able to go through life at all knowing that everything I've done was for nothing. Not to mention, I don't think I could have the heart to believe that NOTHING happens when you die...it makes me feel a little better thinking that I could live on somewhere, or be re-incarnated, or something. And...It's also nice to think that all this terrible shit happens for a grander plan, rather than just science and nature being an asshole.
Why do you think atheists believe what we do is "for nothing"?
I'm generally a nice guy, and if i help someone, why do i need to be motivated either by promise of paradise or threat of eternal damnation? How is a good deed i do "for nothing"? As secular humanist (in addition to my weak atheist position and my anticlericalism), i recognize an innate worth in good deeds. Just because i'm a materialist does not mean i'm a nihilist.
As to a belief in what happens after death - ever religion i've come accross until now has had some rules that simply did not fit well with my personal system of ethics. Thus, i could be religious & happy, and go to hell; or religious and unhappy, and go to heaven. Neither seems very appealing to me. In contrast, my unbelief in life after death brings me to the conclusion that i have this one, and only this one, life to do as best i can, and live as best i will. I may be somewhat hedonistic, but i'm really not faced with a feeling of impending doom or emptiness.
As to nature: it's not an asshole. It's indifferent, and not even that.
It simply is.
No reason not to enjoy it.
Well, it's not the fact that I believe in Heaven or Hell, it's the thought of absolute nothingness after death that scares the shit out of me. I'm all for the "treat others as they've treated you" thing, and I'm a believe in human kindness. I'm not a gung-ho "DO GOOD SHIT UNCONDITIONALLY OR GO TO HELL" guy, I'm more of an act at least partially civilized. So like I said, I just don't like the thought of total oblivion after death. It's not really a me being religious thing.
Frigging Homeopaths. Dissolving things makes them LESS effective, not MORE. That's why we have the phrase "watered down" to mean dilute. CHEMISTRY DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.
The bad thing about that comfort from religion is that it turns people into zealots just so they have more comfort in their hearts. Overall I just can't believe all that comfort mess I know they world is bad really bad yet if there was an all holy being they wouldn't allow a majority of the shit humans do on a daily bases. Not to sound mean it's just I find those so desperate for comfort as weak spirited.
I gone... Well I pretty much forced to a baptist church when I was younger and it kinda pissed me off that people bought into the bullshit these "holy men" were speaking I just couldn't stand the reasoning to get up early to listen to 3 hours of dribble. I can 100% agree with the good will to man and not do stupid part yet the whole fairy tales and undertones of hate I just can't agree with at all.
Well, for your first point, I believe that God does not (or maybe cannot (I'm not sure he is ALL powerful, since I have not really thought as much on that specific point)) intervene in human affairs. Perhaps he chooses not to for whatever reason. Maybe he doesn't want us to grow dependent on him. Maybe he wants the human race to have experiences, both good and bad. Maybe he knows that the bad things will inspire others, bringing about a greater good. Can we ever really know? Probably not.
As for the fairy tales point, the stories are dressed up to present a point. Sort of like any other fairy tale or even novels. They present points by presenting a situation. Adam and Eve may be more of an explanation of how we came to be, when they did not truly know, but the parables are simple lessons wrapped in a story lining. Makes them more palatable. Most of the "undertones of hate" are either wrongly inferred or just the viewpoints of people from thousands of years ago. Jesus's words are actually full of love and understanding.
As for the "more comfort" point, one must remember the old saying: "everything in moderation." Obsessing about anything, from religion to business to even science, will usually bring about a negative effect. It is up to the person, not the religion, to decide whether they should be wholly obsessed. Religions might teach you to devote your whole life to its word, but that is your decision. That is the blessing of free will!
Finally, the people in your church...Do you really know what they went through? WHY they were so devoted? Was it tradition? Did it help them go through bad times? Unless you know, you cannot judge.
Edit: So many people saying they can't understand religious people. Here is a slightly logical answer:
If [insert deity here] does exist: you will go to heaven or be reborn as a cow or something.
If it doesn't exist: doesn't matter now that you're dead, does it?
Yeah, but most religions frown on that sort of logic, to the point of saying that if you worship whatever god BECAUSE you want a chance to win, instead of no chance, then you'll go to hell anyways.
Edit: So many people saying they can't understand religious people. Here is a slightly logical answer:
If [insert deity here] does exist: you will go to heaven or be reborn as a cow or something.
If it doesn't exist: doesn't matter now that you're dead, does it?
The problem with that argument, however, arises when you look at just how damn many religions there are. Then add to that the fact that many preclude believing in other religions at the same time. How can someone justify the argument that the Greek gods aren't real but the Christian god is?
I don't get people who don't accept when they've been logically proven wrong and refuse to add anything to the conversation after that, even an "Well, that may be, but I still feel this way."
If you've just shaken the foundation of belief in something, forcing someone to re-evaluate their position, then you need to realize this needs time. Rearranging their view of the world around the new viewpoint isn't instant, and as it's usually accompanied by settling into a previous unknown, it's scary.
That's why one of my favourite debating techniques (when i want to win ) is abusing logical fallacies (preferably strawman & reductio ad absurdum) to lead them into discovering by themselves whatever i want to convince them of. It's a bit unfair and doesn't work on trained debaters (or people who read throught the logical fallacies articles on wikipedia even), but it's kind of fun ^_^
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) is abusing logical fallacies (preferably strawman & reductio ad absurdum) to lead them into discovering by themselves whatever i want to convince them of. It's a bit unfair and doesn't work on trained debaters (or people who read throught the logical fallacies articles on wikipedia even), but it's kind of fun ^_^