No matter how open-minded...
- Thread starter CrashBang
- Start date
I don't get people who don't accept when they've been logically proven wrong and refuse to add anything to the conversation after that, even an "Well, that may be, but I still feel this way."
It just boggles the mind.
It just boggles the mind.
I think I'm your polar opposite here, I can't grasp how music is anything more than something to listen to, 9 times out of 10 being background noise, let alone the people that allow their music preferences to suggest how they act and dress it's just alien to me.CrashBang said:
People who are unable to separate religion, which in of itself is a morally neutral concept, and the actions of the minority, yes minority, of individuals who have used religion as an excuse to push their own backward agendas. Throughout history there are in all probability far more examples of people being inspired to better themselves and do good deeds by their religion; and when you do get negative examples such as The Spanish Inquisition, or Islamic Extremism, then it's not as simple as just pointing and crying "See, THAT'S why all religions should die out! They only ever inspire hate and destruction." That fact is, it makes no difference whether these people do what they do in the name of religion, politics, or fucking salt if you want to be random with this analogy. The heart of the matter is, they do not represent what they claim to be representing. Flawed people can misinterpret or twist words and ideas written centuries ago by other flawed people to say whatever the hell they like. It's not the fault of the concept itself, the fault lies in the individual.
Also, for people who whinge about religion being illogical and lacking in evidence, so fucking what?! If you're so 'logical', then surely what should matter to you is not what people believe, but what they choose to do with what they believe. If someone is inspired to better themselves and help their fellow man be their faith, how illogical do you look turning found to them and telling them it all counts for nothing, just because they're acting in the name of something that has no scientific evidence to support it? I'm sorry, but the homeless person they'v just given food and shelter to for the night doesn't care about their motivations, so why should you?
This post was written by an atheist btw, before anyone accuses me of being biased.
Also, for people who whinge about religion being illogical and lacking in evidence, so fucking what?! If you're so 'logical', then surely what should matter to you is not what people believe, but what they choose to do with what they believe. If someone is inspired to better themselves and help their fellow man be their faith, how illogical do you look turning found to them and telling them it all counts for nothing, just because they're acting in the name of something that has no scientific evidence to support it? I'm sorry, but the homeless person they'v just given food and shelter to for the night doesn't care about their motivations, so why should you?
This post was written by an atheist btw, before anyone accuses me of being biased.
Well, it's not the fact that I believe in Heaven or Hell, it's the thought of absolute nothingness after death that scares the shit out of me. I'm all for the "treat others as they've treated you" thing, and I'm a believe in human kindness. I'm not a gung-ho "DO GOOD SHIT UNCONDITIONALLY OR GO TO HELL" guy, I'm more of an act at least partially civilized. So like I said, I just don't like the thought of total oblivion after death. It's not really a me being religious thing.cgaWolf said:
Frigging Homeopaths. Dissolving things makes them LESS effective, not MORE. That's why we have the phrase "watered down" to mean dilute. CHEMISTRY DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.
Well, for your first point, I believe that God does not (or maybe cannot (I'm not sure he is ALL powerful, since I have not really thought as much on that specific point)) intervene in human affairs. Perhaps he chooses not to for whatever reason. Maybe he doesn't want us to grow dependent on him. Maybe he wants the human race to have experiences, both good and bad. Maybe he knows that the bad things will inspire others, bringing about a greater good. Can we ever really know? Probably not.TheDooD said:
As for the fairy tales point, the stories are dressed up to present a point. Sort of like any other fairy tale or even novels. They present points by presenting a situation. Adam and Eve may be more of an explanation of how we came to be, when they did not truly know, but the parables are simple lessons wrapped in a story lining. Makes them more palatable. Most of the "undertones of hate" are either wrongly inferred or just the viewpoints of people from thousands of years ago. Jesus's words are actually full of love and understanding.
As for the "more comfort" point, one must remember the old saying: "everything in moderation." Obsessing about anything, from religion to business to even science, will usually bring about a negative effect. It is up to the person, not the religion, to decide whether they should be wholly obsessed. Religions might teach you to devote your whole life to its word, but that is your decision. That is the blessing of free will!
Finally, the people in your church...Do you really know what they went through? WHY they were so devoted? Was it tradition? Did it help them go through bad times? Unless you know, you cannot judge.
Yeah, but most religions frown on that sort of logic, to the point of saying that if you worship whatever god BECAUSE you want a chance to win, instead of no chance, then you'll go to hell anyways.Soods said:
The problem with that argument, however, arises when you look at just how damn many religions there are. Then add to that the fact that many preclude believing in other religions at the same time. How can someone justify the argument that the Greek gods aren't real but the Christian god is?Soods said:
If you've just shaken the foundation of belief in something, forcing someone to re-evaluate their position, then you need to realize this needs time. Rearranging their view of the world around the new viewpoint isn't instant, and as it's usually accompanied by settling into a previous unknown, it's scary.conflictofinterests said:
That's why one of my favourite debating techniques (when i want to win
) is abusing logical fallacies (preferably strawman & reductio ad absurdum) to lead them into discovering by themselves whatever i want to convince them of. It's a bit unfair and doesn't work on trained debaters (or people who read throught the logical fallacies articles on wikipedia even), but it's kind of fun ^_^
Tyler Perry movies and Women's talk shows.
Edit: Ehh, this one might actually be a little flamey, but I honestly don't understand how you can be a Republican and remain poor at the same time.
You're screwing yourself in multiple ways.
Edit: Ehh, this one might actually be a little flamey, but I honestly don't understand how you can be a Republican and remain poor at the same time.
You're screwing yourself in multiple ways.
I don't find either incomprehensible, but I understand why you do. But one think I don't understand is why bestiality is illegal. I mean, sure it's bad to rend Fido's [expletive deleted] open with your throbbing [expletive deleted] and [expletive deleted] his [expletive deleted] until you're both covered in [expletive deleted], but we already have laws against animal abuse that covers that sort of torture. Like it or not, there are ways to have sex with animals that don't hurt anyone, least of all the animal. I thought we as a society had generally gotten over the notion that gross stuff should be illegal, which is why viagra is legal even though it means your grandpa gets to [expletive del- *is smacked by thread gods* ok I'll stop that...OctoH said:
But I mean, it's just sex. What's the fuss about?
I wouldn't call argument a science so much as an art, nor would I call a ray gun science so much as technology, but I would call that scenario hilarious and us both in violation of the edict to not derail shit. So in the spirit of things I offer this:Deviate said:
FUCK THE POLICE
Music:
Learn to accept personal taste, what moves you might not move another, they might get their inspiration somewhere else. Personally music has never moved me, its nice in the background. To me its never been more than an addition to the scenery i live my life by. Ive never learned an instrument and have never felt any need to. Theres nothing wrong with this, its a taste, just like i cant listen to drum n bass, rapping, or techno and classical bores me. Deal with it.
Crime:
Most smaller crimes are caused not by the need to ruin someone elses stuff, but by the personal need, or a personal rush. Sometimes its to seek revenge on someone, or to cause harm to someone they greatly dislike. Often these people are psychologically challenged, it could be they were pressured into it by someone else, and that person was pressured into it and so on and so on as a big cycle. People can be pushed into it because they have nowhere else to turn or because in order to achieve something they have a great desire for they are compelled to crime. Personally i was born into, and my parents raised in, a place where crime is a big problem and most of it racially stirred. and the crime here often causes crime, while a lot of it is simply done to achieve respect.
Religion:
Faith is something that easy to explain. Most people are religious because they are raised that way. Which can make it difficult to lose, even when the logic is there.
People also become religious in order to calm or ease themselves from difficult realizations or unanswerable questions. The most obvious of these being what happens after death, having the possibility that there is nothing after life and that once it end you cease to be is a very scary idea to deal with, and to a lot makes life seem pointless. Since science has yet to give people somewhere to go after death the atheist view is bleak, scary and frankly disappointing to many (speaking as an atheist myself).
Dying Hair:
Easy, some people really dont like their hair colour. Personally i don't dye mine, but honestly thats because im lazy and cant be bothered. I dont like my hair colour its a really dull brown colour and it looks horrible. Changing your hair colour is the simplest way to change your appearance, its as normal to me as changing your clothes, since your hair eventually turns its normal colour again when it grows and the dye fades its only temporary. And i would certainly not couple this with implants when your making and argument, that goes in my next bit.
Inserting foreign objects into your body:
Ranging from piercings to implants to tattoos; this one does actually confuse me, other than the cultural aspects of it the only reason i can think of it is to make you appear just that little bit more unique. Although i understand the appeal of piercings slightly more, as if you want you can take them out and they heal over, i just don't understand the point of doing it to begin with.
Infant Circumcision:
You got me here, all i can say is cultural reasons...
But ill stop explain now and say when i cant understand:
People who betray friends.
Okay, so its not a massive thing that consumes the world, and it sounds like some lame facebook status, but truly, i cant understand why someone would disregard the feelings or wellbeing of someone they deem their friend. To me it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Learn to accept personal taste, what moves you might not move another, they might get their inspiration somewhere else. Personally music has never moved me, its nice in the background. To me its never been more than an addition to the scenery i live my life by. Ive never learned an instrument and have never felt any need to. Theres nothing wrong with this, its a taste, just like i cant listen to drum n bass, rapping, or techno and classical bores me. Deal with it.
Crime:
Most smaller crimes are caused not by the need to ruin someone elses stuff, but by the personal need, or a personal rush. Sometimes its to seek revenge on someone, or to cause harm to someone they greatly dislike. Often these people are psychologically challenged, it could be they were pressured into it by someone else, and that person was pressured into it and so on and so on as a big cycle. People can be pushed into it because they have nowhere else to turn or because in order to achieve something they have a great desire for they are compelled to crime. Personally i was born into, and my parents raised in, a place where crime is a big problem and most of it racially stirred. and the crime here often causes crime, while a lot of it is simply done to achieve respect.
Religion:
Faith is something that easy to explain. Most people are religious because they are raised that way. Which can make it difficult to lose, even when the logic is there.
People also become religious in order to calm or ease themselves from difficult realizations or unanswerable questions. The most obvious of these being what happens after death, having the possibility that there is nothing after life and that once it end you cease to be is a very scary idea to deal with, and to a lot makes life seem pointless. Since science has yet to give people somewhere to go after death the atheist view is bleak, scary and frankly disappointing to many (speaking as an atheist myself).
Dying Hair:
Easy, some people really dont like their hair colour. Personally i don't dye mine, but honestly thats because im lazy and cant be bothered. I dont like my hair colour its a really dull brown colour and it looks horrible. Changing your hair colour is the simplest way to change your appearance, its as normal to me as changing your clothes, since your hair eventually turns its normal colour again when it grows and the dye fades its only temporary. And i would certainly not couple this with implants when your making and argument, that goes in my next bit.
Inserting foreign objects into your body:
Ranging from piercings to implants to tattoos; this one does actually confuse me, other than the cultural aspects of it the only reason i can think of it is to make you appear just that little bit more unique. Although i understand the appeal of piercings slightly more, as if you want you can take them out and they heal over, i just don't understand the point of doing it to begin with.
Infant Circumcision:
You got me here, all i can say is cultural reasons...
But ill stop explain now and say when i cant understand:
People who betray friends.
Okay, so its not a massive thing that consumes the world, and it sounds like some lame facebook status, but truly, i cant understand why someone would disregard the feelings or wellbeing of someone they deem their friend. To me it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
I just want to squeeze into this conversation here...Sinclair Solutions said:
I've been studying some pretty desperate places in my Anthropology class, and they're a lot more desperate than you or I have any familiarity with. Dirt floor and banana shingle roofs, they flooded my farm and killed my livestock and expected me to survive kind of desperate. People in places like that believe in religion for 2 reasons. 1) Because there has to be some place, even if it's after this life, where their children won't die of starvation or any number of entirely treatable (diseases we have all but eradicated in the Western World) illnesses, and 2) There has to be some place, even if it's after this life, where the people who did good will be rewarded and the people who did evil (who did all the things that ruined their lives) will be punished.
Because it's hard to go on in places like that when you don't have at least that to believe in.
People who hate other peoples stuff and state their opinion as fact. You are not some superior being so be quiet. I'll like the stuff I want to like and you like your stuff.
Second thing is the more controversial one.
That people can still believe in the Christian God who is apparently benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. It means he loves us but will let us suffer. He is all powerful but still has to battle with Satan. He is all knowing and everywhere but does nothing to stop evil.
I specified Christian God because many other belief systems have several Gods each with personalities and prone to emotional acts. Think of the Norse Gods. They just didn't care massively about humanity. It makes evil so much easier to explain.
Second thing is the more controversial one.
That people can still believe in the Christian God who is apparently benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. It means he loves us but will let us suffer. He is all powerful but still has to battle with Satan. He is all knowing and everywhere but does nothing to stop evil.
I specified Christian God because many other belief systems have several Gods each with personalities and prone to emotional acts. Think of the Norse Gods. They just didn't care massively about humanity. It makes evil so much easier to explain.