No Right Answer: Is Sexy Bad?

[default]

I just love how something as amazing as landing a fucking man made object on a FUCKING COMET, a mission that had been 10 years in the making has been ignored and brought down to what piece of meat someone has between their legs and the fact a man had some drawings of sexy girls on the piece of cloth he wore on his upper body, you fucking pathetic little monkeys. Go back to sharpening sticks and worshipping the sun.

Plus you ruined the best day of that guy's life. Fuck you.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

It's a Jolly good job the bastard wasn't wearing a Fedora or the Crater from his being Nuked from orbit, dare say Femin-Nuked would last for all time.

Tongue in cheek, get over yorselves.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

Here's a simple rule that I've recently designed based on all the things that have been happening lately, and it's served me well.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight male? If yes, then it IS sexist.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight woman, gay male, gay woman, or anyone else you'd like to add? If yes OR no, then it is NOT sexist.

 

[default]

Here's a simple rule that I've recently designed based on all the things that have been happening lately, and it's served me well.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight male? If yes, then it IS sexist.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight woman, gay male, gay woman, or anyone else you'd like to add? If yes OR no, then it is NOT sexist.

So why the fuck can't anything be made to tailor to a specific audience on a sexual level without being called 'sexist' in your eyes?

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Getting directly to the question at hand, "sexy" is a tool. Like a hammer, maybe? You can build bridges with it, or you can smash in someone's skull. It can be a symbol of hope, or one of oppression. It's all in how it's used, and who it's used for.

Honestly, if people are upset, then maybe you're swinging it at people a bit too much.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

Here's a simple rule that I've recently designed based on all the things that have been happening lately, and it's served me well.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight male? If yes, then it IS sexist.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight woman, gay male, gay woman, or anyone else you'd like to add? If yes OR no, then it is NOT sexist.

So why the fuck can't anything be made to tailor to a specific audience on a sexual level without being called 'sexist' in your eyes?

Methinks you missed the joke. It was to point out that everyone but a straight guy could wear/watch/play/read anything and not be made to feel bad about it, but if a straight male like myself enjoys anything of a sexual nature, then apparently I hate women and only view them as sexual objects.

 

[roelani]

Here's a simple rule that I've recently designed based on all the things that have been happening lately, and it's served me well.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight male? If yes, then it IS sexist.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight woman, gay male, gay woman, or anyone else you'd like to add? If yes OR no, then it is NOT sexist.

I hope that was sarcasm. I mean, I'm fairly certain it was sarcasm. Right? Surely you're not suggesting that anything that directly appeals or is meant to sexually interest a particular gender/sexual orientation (in this case, straight men) is inherently sexist? While everyone else is fair game? Because if that's the case, then that is a clear example of a really ugly double standard.

EDIT: Lysander, sorry! I see you responded to someone else before I posted this and it was actually sarcasm. Phew. Ignore the above paragraph then.

Regardless, I found the guy's shirt completely adorkable, in a comic-book geek sort of way, and while it might not have been 100% appropriate (It's basically a hawaiian shirt, right? That all-over printed design kind of shirt? Way too casual for a conference/interview of that magnitude, even a fashion newb like me can see that) the backlash the guy got was, in my mind, completely inappropriate.

The internet P.C. watchdogs have reduced one of the brightest people of the nation to a teary mess, on camera. The occasion that should've been the crowning achievement of his career became a P.R. nightmare over a custom-made hawaiian shirt. Congratulations, SocJus Police, congratulations. Incidentally, the narrative that got pushed out was also indirectly harming their obvious agenda to get more women into STEM fields, by making it seem probably a hell of a lot more sexist than it actually is. Of course, when people twist definitions like "sexist" and "harrassment" to include just tons of stuff they generally disagree with, it becomes difficult to actually know exactly what the heck they're angry about. And to discern just how "true" any given statement might be.

I disagree SO MUCH with the way the media handled the backlash, publishing and re-publishing the click-baity whining of people with too much time on their hands and too high of a soapbox to stand on. But hey, once again, I'm sure all that ad revenue was worth it. It's not like they had a huge story about the technological intricacies of landing a man-made object on a moving comet for the first time in history to cover or anything.

Also, that shirt with the cowboys is awesome. I'd prefer knights, though.

 

[sexy=sexist]

Sex isn't bad. Sexy isn't bad. Sexualization is.

Not to be rude but that sounds like a meaningless definition that most people will reject.

What's the distinction between "sexy" and "sexualization" one might ask. It has to with subversiveness, subjectivity and agency.

This is going to be good...

Sexualization falls in to this. A woman or a man can be sexy if they make the choice themselves, giving them agency. Pushing the perception of sexy upon someone on the other hand is sexualization.

:sigh: This is silly. A person can be sexy if they decide to be sexy, but finding someone else attractive is sexualization and wrong/bad? Do you know how silly this is? This can't be what you mean right?

If you would look at the character Bayonetta which tend to pop-up during these discussions. Her character falls under the "sexy" epithet, she has chosen her sexual expression. However, the camera is sexualizing her, the quite intimate shots of her body and weird angles is the reason. So she's stripped of some of her agency and is reduced to mere object despite a character design set out to give the impression of sexy. A character design intended to convey agency over her sexuality.

Yep that is exactly what you mean but worse. Bayonetta can't even chose to be sexy because of the male gaze of the camera now.
listen I am sorry to pick on you, but were did you get this idea about sex and sexualization?

 

[default]

Here's a simple rule that I've recently designed based on all the things that have been happening lately, and it's served me well.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight male? If yes, then it IS sexist.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight woman, gay male, gay woman, or anyone else you'd like to add? If yes OR no, then it is NOT sexist.

So why the fuck can't anything be made to tailor to a specific audience on a sexual level without being called 'sexist' in your eyes?

Methinks you missed the joke. It was to point out that everyone but a straight guy could wear/watch/play/read anything and not be made to feel bad about it, but if a straight male like myself enjoys anything of a sexual nature, then apparently I hate women and only view them as sexual objects.

Ah okay, apologies. I was mad and that went over my head, although the things some people believe just astound me these days.

 

[sexy=sexist]

You can't back up a subjective argument with facts. You're missing the point a bit. This one instance of a douchey shirt is not doing anything. It's a thousand thousand incidents stacked up over the years. It's men wearing douchey shirts, and men being hired over women consistently over a long period of time, and the women that are hired being isolated and excluded in a male-dominated workplace.

Yet if history is any indication people might be annoyed over men being hired over women. Women being isolated, and excluded will all take a back seat to the real issue... anything involving sex will pretty much be more important then the rest of that.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Is sexy bad? That depends if you're an anti-sex feminist or a pro-sex feminist. The anti-sex feminist would say that it is objectifying and symbolizes an oppressive patriarchy. The pro-sex feminist would say that sexuality is a beautiful thing and should never be shamed or censored.

Would Shirtgate happen if it was a woman wearing a shirt with a bunch of naked, sexy men? What if it was a homosexual (male or female) wearing one? Personally, I believe that the sides would be flipped, and SJWs would be defending the minority's freedom of expression.

 

[Redd the Sock]

You know, the shirt thing reminds me of how pissed off I am at my mother when she refuses to use the walmart checker with the nose ring. It in no way impacts the job, but never let that stop someone from being judgmental based on appearance.

The shirt gets called inappropriate for work because we as a society still hold to the BS idea that professionals wear suits. He also can't have tattoos, piercings aside from an earing (and that's a maybe), dye his hair the color of an anime character, have facial scars, or anything that goes away from our view of a professional in a suit and tie. The logic isn't far removed from the idea that he'd also have to be a he or a certain skin color and sexual orientation to be taken seriously. Bitching about the shirt just shows how far we haven't gotten in judging people by their actions, not how they look.

Of course that denies the fact that for many, it's the shirt, not the shirt at the workplace they're really attacking (bet you anything that if it was just a tacky Hawaiian shirt, no one would care), and they're just trying to not come off like people demanding their morals be adhered to by others. The reality is sexy and sexist is in the eye of the beholder, and there's no universal standard for offensive, so I fall on the side of not setting any precedent about taking actions to avoid offending people, because there's always someone with harsher standard than you. My above mentioned mother hates foul language, sex, violence, and her parents go further with religious standards upset about anything that goes against the bible. Fortunately, that just means they don't watch much TV.

The guy landed something on a comet, and he can come out in Sailor Moon cosplay for all I care.

 

[leviadragon99]

Okay... first and foremost, it was a tacky and unprofessional shirt choice, bringing up classical art in comparison to it or rockstars in comparison to him is a bit of a false equivalency, now was it sexist... ehh... if it was, then it's only a minor symptom, not the disease itself, more the result of a lack of thought than any actual intent to be a dick.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Snip.

Er...I think you're mistakenly conflating "sexualization" with "objectification."

They're not the same thing.

The problem here is not that he had a shirt with people with bikinis on it.

The problem is that YOU ARE A GODDAMN SCIENTIST WHO JUST LANDED A GODDAMN PROBE ON A GODDAMN COMET. AND YOU ARE GIVING A PRESS CONFERENCE. WEAR A GODDAMN SUIT.

Why does this matter?

Sincerely. Why? Some of the absolute worst things in human history have been said and done while dressed "appropriately" or in a suit.

I don't care if he came out wearing nothing but a lamp shade on his head. They landed a god damned robot on a comet. Frankly, we're lucky the guy, let alone the group, was clothed and not drunk off his/their asses after the ten years it took building up to it.

The shirt was a uniquely created gift from his friend, a female tattoo artist, and he was celebrating the achievement.

Plus you ruined the best day of that guy's life. Fuck you.

They made him cry.

The man who, with his team (made up of both sexes, mind), accomplished something truly spectacular that these petty troglodytes will never, ever match...and they broke him, dragged him through the muck, for wearing a particular configuration of woven fibers that they just didn't like.

I just don't understand people sometimes.

Priorities are so fucked up.

Anyone else think that landing a rocket on a fucking comet should give you the right to wear whatever you damn well please the the press conference?

Nope! I don't care what you've achieved, nothing gives you the right to be a douche with impunity.

How is he a douche exactly?

Because the shark with the monocle says so. Obviously.

 

[sexy=sexist]

You can't back up a subjective argument with facts. You're missing the point a bit. This one instance of a douchey shirt is not doing anything. It's a thousand thousand incidents stacked up over the years. It's men wearing douchey shirts, and men being hired over women consistently over a long period of time, and the women that are hired being isolated and excluded in a male-dominated workplace.

Yet if history is any indication people might be annoyed over men being hired over women. Women being isolated, and excluded will all take a back seat to the real issue... anything involving sex will pretty much be more important then the rest of that.

It's just easier. You usually have to hear or read about problems women face in the work place, or how often women are mistreated. And by the time any of that gets written up there's not much that can be done about it. A dude wearing a douchey shirt is immediately apparent, and can be immediately called out on.

Or sexy is just what really pisses people off and people really really want to control it.
Why do you call the shirt douchey?

I am trying to find a article I read a few weeks ago about how immigrant women were being abused at this one facility and there was a petition to shut it down... but all I can find is petition stuff about the UK banning Julien Blanc... how about that.

 

[default]

Snip.

Er...I think you're mistakenly conflating "sexualization" with "objectification."

They're not the same thing.

The problem here is not that he had a shirt with people with bikinis on it.

The problem is that YOU ARE A GODDAMN SCIENTIST WHO JUST LANDED A GODDAMN PROBE ON A GODDAMN COMET. AND YOU ARE GIVING A PRESS CONFERENCE. WEAR A GODDAMN SUIT.

Why does this matter?

Sincerely. Why? Some of the absolute worst things in human history have been said and done while dressed "appropriately" or in a suit.

I don't care if he came out wearing nothing but a lamp shade on his head. They landed a god damned robot on a comet. Frankly, we're lucky the guy, let alone the group, was clothed and not drunk off his/their asses after the ten years it took building up to it.

The shirt was a uniquely created gift from his friend, a female tattoo artist, and he was celebrating the achievement.

Plus you ruined the best day of that guy's life. Fuck you.

They made him cry.

The man who, with his team (made up of both sexes, mind), accomplished something truly spectacular that these petty troglodytes will never, ever match...and they broke him, dragged him through the muck, for wearing a particular configuration of woven fibers that they just didn't like.

I just don't understand people sometimes.

Priorities are so fucked up.

I just don't fucking understand clothes, I really don't. Who fucking cares what shape and colour the pieces of material you have plastered to your body to hide your shameful parts are? Why are some shapes and colours more appropriate than others? Who CARES? If you do care, WHY?! Fuck humans.

And exactly, they made this poor fellow cry because he thought he would dare to wear something with something fun and funky on it for his day in the light. FUCK you, you pathetic little worms.

These people put a fucking MAN MADE OBJECT into fucking SPACE and they landed it on a FUCKING COMET farther away than the human mind can comprehend, and these people brought it back down to the guy's FUCKING CLOTHES.

Christ it makes me mad.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

Here's a simple rule that I've recently designed based on all the things that have been happening lately, and it's served me well.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight male? If yes, then it IS sexist.

Does the content of this movie/book/game/show/shirt/etc. have anything that could possibly arouse or sexually interest a straight woman, gay male, gay woman, or anyone else you'd like to add? If yes OR no, then it is NOT sexist.

So why the fuck can't anything be made to tailor to a specific audience on a sexual level without being called 'sexist' in your eyes?

Methinks you missed the joke. It was to point out that everyone but a straight guy could wear/watch/play/read anything and not be made to feel bad about it, but if a straight male like myself enjoys anything of a sexual nature, then apparently I hate women and only view them as sexual objects.

Ah okay, apologies. I was mad and that went over my head, although the things some people believe just astound me these days.

No problem. But while it was a joke, there is a part of me that kind of feels like that's the way things are going. Granted, I don't think that's necessarily the way it is NOW, but I think in general once we as a society say that something is bad or "whatever-ist" the moment anyone is offended, we're in trouble. If that's the standard for what is and isn't acceptable and the offended party has the power to immediately call for something to change or it's creator to be punished (and it can be made to happen), then freedom of expression is a lot harder to come by.

And that's not to say that people shouldn't be able to be criticized or that I think all games should be nothing but blatant Dead Or Alive pandering, but once creative people start second-guessing their every idea and not doing this or that because they're afraid of the backlash they might get just because someone percieves a message or idea that isn't there and was never intended...entertainment isn't going to be very entertaining anymore.

 

[sexy=sexist]

When you get right down to it this shirt really is a great example of sexy = sexist imo. I think we can all agree the shirt is not professional, but the guy looks like a rockstar and obviously the place he works at is not about the dress code, or it might very well have even been time to pop the Champagne and relax. People took issue with his shirt because it was sexy and that flips people right the f*ck out.

You could make the game winning penalty kick for the Women's World Cup championship but that will be second place to the finger wagers upset you showed your sports bra.
You can land a rocket on a comet but that hardly counts if there is sex involved somehow.

 

[Spartan448]

The problem here is not that he had a shirt with people with bikinis on it.

The problem is that YOU ARE A GODDAMN SCIENTIST WHO JUST LANDED A GODDAMN PROBE ON A GODDAMN COMET. AND YOU ARE GIVING A PRESS CONFERENCE. WEAR A GODDAMN SUIT.

Why does this matter?

Sincerely. Why? Some of the absolute worst things in human history have been said and done while dressed "appropriately" or in a suit.

I don't care if he came out wearing nothing but a lamp shade on his head. They landed a god damned robot on a comet. Frankly, we're lucky the guy, let alone the group, was clothed and not drunk off his/their asses after the ten years it took building up to it.

The shirt was a uniquely created gift from his friend, a female tattoo artist, and he was celebrating the achievement.

It's all about promoting the importance of your own position. When you have something important to say, you wear a goddamn suit - it adds weight and professionalism to what you are saying. That is why even when it's an open and shut case for the Prosecution and you're the public Defender, you wear a suit. It's why even if you're just giving a press conference to wish the Secretary of State a happy birthday, you wear a suit. It is why when you give a speech at a funeral or a wedding, you wear a suit. A suit tells people "Hey, fucking listen to me, because what I have to say is fucking important." It prevents shit like this from happening.

And plus, it looks awesome as fuck, why wouldn't you wear a suit?

 

[Tsun Tzu]

It's all about promoting the importance of your own position. When you have something important to say, you wear a goddamn suit - it adds weight and professionalism to what you are saying. That is why even when it's an open and shut case for the Prosecution and you're the public Defender, you wear a suit. It's why even if you're just giving a press conference to wish the Secretary of State a happy birthday, you wear a suit. It is why when you give a speech at a funeral or a wedding, you wear a suit. A suit tells people "Hey, fucking listen to me, because what I have to say is fucking important." It prevents shit like this from happening.

And plus, it looks awesome as fuck, why wouldn't you wear a suit?

So, basically it comes down to arbitrary societal expectation/constructs?

Allow me to go full Godwin all up in this *****:

I'll be the first to admit, I'd probably take the guy with the lamp shade on his noggin and naught for clothing but air molecules less seriously... but if he'd just landed a robot on a comet? I'd definitely be paying attention, regardless of his state of dress.

Kind of like what happened here.

Hell. He looked more like a real, live, genuine person than a thousand dudes posturing in suits.