No Right Answer: The Killing Joke vs Watchmen

[Hoplon]

V for vendetta?
The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?
Skizz?
Halo Jones?
D.R. and Quinch?
Swamp Thing?
Hellblazer?
ABC Warriors?
Doctor Who? (Comic only )

Killing Joke spawned the Miller series, so loses points.
Watchmen is only his most well-known work, not his best.

Like last week, it's not "No Right Answer" it's "Not The Right Candidates".

This.

The Ballard of Halo Jones is way better. It was in 2000 AD though so they may have an excuse for missing it.

 

[SpaceBat]

Wow, so chris won because of a vagina joke?

Yeah. I mean sure, the squid monster was ridiculous (something that the movie actually improved upon immensely), but come on. This should have been a tie. Personally, I'd prefer Watchmen over TKJ and find Watchmen to be the best graphical novel off all time, though neither are without flaws.

Hmm. Not sure what exactly is wrong with this show, it just seems a bit off. Dialogue feels unnatural and stilted, the co-stars don't seem to have much chemistry, and I never feel like I learn or gain anything from the experience of watching one of these videos.

Yeah, it's missing something. It does have potential, but it's just not so fun to watch these two talk and the subjects are somewhat bland and shallow.

 

[Kojiro ftt]

Why can't he say vagina in the video? Is that a bad word now? What about penis? Why are these videos censored like we're in China?

 

[SuccessAndBiscuts]

Open question, since when were there pictures between the chapters in the Harry Potter books? I've got the whole series and the only artwork is on the covers, so given that I'm in the UK the only explanation I can think off was that this was something to do with the US release?

The U.S. versions have a picture at the beginning of each chapter. The pictures were probably included because the first Harry Potter was marketed for children and children like pictures.

Yea that's pretty much what I suspected, thanks for confirming though.

 

[cricket chirps]

._. i loved the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen! Also I didn't like watchmen at all, it was so unfocused. Enough for a book but too much for a movie. Not to mention there were sex scenes every 15 minutes! IT WAS SOOOO UNFOCUSED!

 

[Monty McDougal]

V for Vendetta is one of the best movies ever. Guess who plays V, Hugo Weaving. I could have never guessed that.
Plus, the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen comic is terrible but the movie rocks.

 

[RTR]

I think we can all agree that the Extraordinary Gentlemen movie sucked.
I still stand that Kyle should've taken this one.

Also, you guys get bouns points in my book for "Perry-lized"

 

[Aureliano]

Great stuff. I don't even read comic books or the aforementioned long-ass comic books, but both of the guys obviously cared about the material. That made the argument interesting.

And now that the show is actually getting funny and interesting, comments have severely dropped off. Is the Escapist losing steam or do its viewers really just hate being entertained?

 

[LilRock1976]

Loved Watchmen, liked Killing Joke but I am a little more partial with his run on Swamp Thing and that Superman story he did.

 

[necromanzer52]

Wait. The Harry Potter books have illustrations in america?

 

[bojac6]

Alan Moore has said that the Killing Joke wasn't very good. Watchmen is better, V for Vendetta is better, but his best work is Top Ten. Holy crap is that good.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

Is it just me, or does Chris always win? I mean, I haven't really been keeping track, but I think Kyle's getting kinda screwed here. Especially since he's usually right.

You noticed that too? Three weeks in a row it's been judge's decision (because water's a lot easier to chug than Jones Soda) and gone to Chris.

 

[vxicepickxv]

Killing Jokw was the best comic ever. I don't see how anyone could say otherwise. I'm sure some might think so, but I don't think you could change my mind on this.

Also... Vagina Monster is scary.

I'm more partial to Brian K. Vaughan's works on Y the Last Man and Runaways.

 

[ace_of_something]

The reason those two are so important is because they both kind of changed everything. Watchman was what set off the 'gritty realistic hero' thing Killing Joke is what shifted joker from being 'clown/gambling themed villain to what he is'

edit: don't bother pointing out that DKR came out b4 Killing Joke. someone else already did. Thanks

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Didn't Alan Moore write both?
And having read only watchmen, I will have to say that it's brilliant, but then again I do love me some Joker.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

I'd say it's a tie. Watchmen was incredible (and the movie was pretty good too), The Killing Joke was incredible, but you want to know what the true best Alan Moore story was?

Was going to say this. That book makes me cry everytime.

But if you really, REALLY want to get how great Alan Moore can be you got to go way back to where the Vertigo imprint began.

Next to nothing in comics beats this series.

 

[galdon2004]

You know, I've been thinking about what is wrong with this show, and I think i got it more or less figured out. You guys take a broad question, with numerous potentially correct answers then pick two of them to debate over. This leads to a feeling by some viewers that neither answer was right because their favorite is not present in the debate.

Take for example the question of Superman VS Batman. There are two ways you can ask this question, the way you have been it would look like this:

Who is the best superhero ever?
Person A: Superman!
Person B: Batman!
Audience: 'Green Lantern!' 'Captain Marvel!' 'Squirrel Girl! (seriously look at the list of villains she's taken down)'

Then the audience doesn't feel so good about the debate because they aren't invested in either of the choices.

Now, if you asked it in a slightly different way:

"Who do you think is better, Superman, or Batman?"

then the audience would be put into a better mindset to really get into the idea of the debate rather than just thinking that neither choice is good.

 

[PlasmaCow]

no mention of the 572 page colossus that is From Hell? really?

 

[Ne1butme]

Wow, so chris won because of a vagina joke?

Yeah. I mean sure, the squid monster was ridiculous (something that the movie actually improved upon immensely)

No, it didn't improve it. It actually violated the plan's entire purpose. Going into spoiler mode for this bit.

Spoiler

Veidt's plan was to simulate an attack by a 3rd party to scare world into peace. He's needs an external threat with no ties to existing sides. Thus, an alien invasion, in which neither the Americans or the Soviets can be accused of playing a part.

In the movie, Doc Manhattan is the external threat. And it won't work. As soon at the rubble starts to be cleaned up, the whole world will start to blame the USA for Doc Manhattan's 'actions'. He was an American Citizen and was used by the USA as a weapon/deterrent. America will be called on to make amends and anti-american hostilities will increase.

An alien is completely independent to the world powers and Doc Manhattan isn't. Thus he can't perform the same role.

I love the movie, but that part wasn't an improvement.

 

[Lanowar]

The main problem I have with this show is that Chris is better that getting his points across then Kyle. It never feels like a debate because Kyle is always on the back foot against a louder Chris in any situation.

With regards to this episode I agree that the Killing Joke is superior to Watchmen, sure Watchmen is good but I'd never go back and re-read it. While I can do that with the Killing Joke I love the Joker's backstory, his actions here and the themes of insanity. It's not about how "We finally got a crazy Joker" it's about how The Joker can see Batman is just as crazy as he is for dressing up as a Bat to fight crime. The Joke at the end is about The Joker and Batman and how they view the world. One is plain crazy for thinking the torch can create the bridge the other appears sane but then reveals he's just as crazy as the first man. (Batman fights crime but dresses up as a bat to do so)

Still at the end of the day most of Moore's stuff is worth reading! Killing Joke, Watchmen, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, V for Vendetta, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? Swamp Thing it's all excellent stuff. More people reading comics the better I say. So on that front the episode excels just wish the debates were more central then one person shouting down the second.