Nobel laureate forced out of studies after making joke about women

[Buckets]

So if the guy/girl who cures cancer goes out to celebrate and gets pissed, says or does something a bit stupid will now more likely get the sack. Some great world we live in.

 

[SecondPrize]

University administrations and professional boards need to grow some spines and back up their professors. A joke in poor taste deserves a mild rebuke, not a complete disavowal of the comedian as the wolves bay for their blood. The only time lynch mobs ever have power is when authority stands silent and allows them to operate.

If someone did something deserving dismissal, then dismiss them. If they didn't, don't. Don't let others do your job for you. In the pursuit of an offense-free environment that won't turn off possible enrolling students they are rapidly building educational spaces so tame that it's hardly worth enrolling. One does not grow where they are not challenged. To risk an analogy, in basic our Drill Sergeants had us constantly breaking muscle fibers so they'd regrow stronger, not massaging us with the hopes that it'd lead to the results they wanted.

If only that were true, we just had that woman in London that had internet petitions and in-person protests asking the university to fire her for her remarks against Males. She wasn't fired, but there was a hell of a lot more than just, "a bit of grumbling on some forums", there was an organized effort to remove her from her position.

That's right, she wasn't fired. She also did far more than tell a stupid joke. If this guy had mimicked her actions there wouldn't be any news coverage of people going overboard and this threads comments would look remarkably different.

 

[EternallyBored]

I think an apology and maybe a day or so off from work would of sufficed. Being threatened to leave his job or else is way over the top.
Sure his joke was cruddy, but the man probably faced bad experiences with women when it comes to dating. As someone else said, if a woman was to joke about men- there'd be 0 issues and most would laugh. But on no, a guy said it so therefore, it's "sexist" am I right?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.

Really Caramel? I actually think it would be pretty much the same with a woman, except it would be the anti-sjw crowd calling for their head on a plate/firing.

Either way it shouldn't happen, but I don't think it'd be much different.

Doubt it. While there might be a bit of grumbling on some forums, I very highly doubt they would lose their job.

If only that were true, we just had that woman in London that had internet petitions and in-person protests asking the university to fire her for her remarks against Males. She wasn't fired, but there was a hell of a lot more than just, "a bit of grumbling on some forums", there was an organized effort to remove her from her position.

There was also that petition to get Anita Sarkeesian removed from supposedly working on Mirror's edge 2, that petition got over 50,000 signatures before EA stepped in to shut down that rumor. Somewhere around 50,000 people tried to get her fired from a job she didn't even have, there were physical letter writing campaigns too, people wrote in to protest her supposedly working on the project.

We could argue that people in these cases would be less likely to lose their jobs due to remarks against majority power groups being taken less seriously, but the response is still definitely more than grumbling on internet forums.

I don't know about the first woman, but Anita has done more to gain the contempt of the internet than a single quote. While the response towards her is completely ridiculous, as is the other woman (most likely, since I don't know any thing about it), either way this isn't much more than people grumbling on the internet since neither of these attempts have amounted to anything more than a bunch of noise that was ignored.

It's still about the same that happened to this guy, he was receiving much the same response, 99% internet drama, and online bitching and grumbling coupled with calls from internet personalities for him to lose his job. The article in the OP mentions that the backlash was coming from online, i.e. "people grumbling on the internet".

They amounted to less, like I said we can argue about why the results are different, but the hyperbole and overblown reactions are still similar in those cases and this guy, as well as the aerospace scientist who faced backlash a couple months ago for that shirt he wore.

We can speculate on why there were differences in outcome, except the Anita thing since you can't fire someone for a job they don't have, but the tactics and hyperbole are often very similar, and in some cases do result in firings, like the woman who complained about the dongle joke at a tech convention a year or two ago, she didn't advocate for the people making the joke to be fired, but they were, then the internet hate machine turned against her, blaming her for it, and she was fired as well.

I don't know what the university's reasoning for letting him go was, none of the articles mention anything beyond the usual internet rage boner complaining and online petition mongering that follows these situations, I suspect it's more complicated than it appears to be on the surface, but the blowback against him was primarily relegated to the same social media sites that pretty much all these outrage driven mobs utilize to organize calls for people to lose their jobs, from that London woman, to Anita, to the dongle joke woman, the AIDS joke woman, to the tacky shirt guy, to this guy. I suppose we can define it all as internet grumbling.

If only it were just "grumbling on the internet" unfortunately a lot of people seem to take that grumbling very seriously.

 

[StatusNil]

Bad news for the hepper of cats among us, SJWs are The Establishment now. They're the squares, maan.

They tried to do that in gaming too, remember? Wonder what became of that.

 

[Bat Vader]

If someone wants to say or do something risky or stupid I say let them. It's their own fault if whatever they said or did comes back to bit them in the ass later.

That doesn't absolve the lynch mob from overreacting. Also, how far are you willing to stick by this philosophy? If someone speaks ill of a dictator amongst friends and is reported and imprisoned/executed, are we supposed to blame them for the result? What if someone is executed for questioning the dominant religion of the area, is it still the victim's fault? What of all the civil rights activists who were beaten by literal lynch mobs for expressing risky opinions? Still to blame?

There has to be a point where it becomes the fault of those punishing people for their opinions, and I would say this is definitely in the unfair camp.

I never said they were absolved nor did I say it wasn't unfair. You have to admit saying what he said was extremely stupid on his part considering the situation he was in at the time. It would be like someone making an abortion joke at a newborn clinic. While extremely funny it would be a stupid thing to do.

I just think people need to think before they say and do stuff. If someone speaks ill of a dictator that's great but if they are imprisoned/executed it's still partly their fault for even saying something to begin with. Same thing with questioning the dominant religion. Blame has to be assigned equally. Sure, it sucks the guy is getting attacked by a lynch mob and lost job but part of the blame still falls on him for not taking a few seconds to think before he spoke.

 

[GabeZhul]

So if the guy/girl who cures cancer goes out to celebrate and gets pissed, says or does something a bit stupid will now more likely get the sack. Some great world we live in.

This is the world where a guy puts a fricking probe on a fricking asteroid, a scientific achievement of monumental proportions, and then the entire thing gets swiped under the rug because he was wearing a "sexist shirt" while giving a press release. This is not a new thing, just the most recent.

 

[Bat Vader]

I'm fairly certain that it stopped being a joke the moment people asked him about it afterwards and he confirmed that yes, he seriously thinks women are too emotional and should get their own labs, which is probably one bit of stupidity that you should avoid saying at a lunch hosted by an organization of female scientists. It's fair to consider what happened an overreaction, but let's not just take an interview with Hunt as the absolute, unbiased, objective truth so we can paint him as some great victim who's never done anything wrong but make a bad joke.

Source [https://storify.com/deborahblum/tim-hunt-and-his-jokes-about-women-scientists]

Yeah let's blame the victim, because SJW are saints who can't do any wrong.

Except the user isn't blaming the victim. They even said that it's fair that what happened to him is an overreaction. Not taking one side of the story at face value is a good thing to do. To even attempt to make an accurate assessment you need both sides of the story first. Most times when someone gives their side of the story they try and pass themselves off in a more positive light.

 

[Bat Vader]

So if the guy/girl who cures cancer goes out to celebrate and gets pissed, says or does something a bit stupid will now more likely get the sack. Some great world we live in.

Should they get the sack? No. They should still be held accountable for their actions though. There is a quote I like from Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire from Stannis Baratheon: "A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad the good".

 

[Jedamethis]

Every single woman I know said good fucking riddance, he did good science and we should celebrate his achievements but not his person. He and men like him are the reason they've been told they should stay out of science, that they should do something pretty instead, that 'oh I didn't think you'd be doing physics that's a boy's subject' so fuck him. You want freedom of speech, how about giving women the freedom to follow their dreams without being laughed at by people like Sir Tim Hunt. I have no sympathy. Considering UCL was the first university to accept women alongside men, it's understandable that they have to follow their policy of equality, even if it means losing a Nobel Laureate. Otherwise it sends the message that sexism is okay when it comes from the mouths of clever famous people.

Hell, even if it was a joke, the punchline is "ha! women are emotional and can't put work in front of their feelings!"

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

People really need to lighten up. No one can take a joke anymore. This is absurd. This should have been a complete and total non-issue.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

So if the guy/girl who cures cancer goes out to celebrate and gets pissed, says or does something a bit stupid will now more likely get the sack. Some great world we live in.

Should they get the sack? No. They should still be held accountable for their actions though. There is a quote I like from Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire from Stannis Baratheon: "A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad the good".

While that's true, applying it here makes it seem like we've already decided that there is bad to wash out; that what he said is somehow worth punishment or even an apology.

For all the people quibbling over whether or not it was a joke or an honest statement, I have to wonder why the two are considered mutually exclusive. It seems pretty obvious that he was expressing an honest opinion (multiple sexes in the lab can cause problems) in a rather jovial way. It was a rather stupid way to express this, but I don't believe it represents anything he needs to be held accountable for.

 

[Kathinka]

Jesus Christ, when did people become such little bitches that so grossly overreact to anything that isn't absolutely PC. Get a grip. How are real issues supposed to be taken seriously when such a major stink gets raised over menial shit like this.

 

[jklinders]

Seems excessive.

The actual problem, of course, isn't any particular -ism, but rather the modern era of social media and internet lynch mobs. I actually feel for people whose passions/career path require them to be in the public eye and communicating with thousands of people on a daily basis. It's all a bit terrifying. Get on the wrong side of "public opinion" and there's no stopping that snowball once it starts rolling downhill.

Everybody seems to like these online lynchings so long as they approve of the target. They'll characterize it as karmic comeuppance, or a commendable "revolt", or throw some kind of brightly colored blanket over it and pretend its anything but a bunch of panicky village idiots with torches and pitchforks come to burn yet another witch, no questions asked.

You hit it right on the head. the worst thing about these internet lynch mobs, I mean the very very worst thing is, there are always enough people who approve of the target regardless of who that target is.

that is the scary thing. That is what is wholly wrong about this whole "no bad tactics, only bad targets" bullshit. Given his age he might want to throw in the towel at this point, but if he wants another job I'm sure a Nobel Prize winner will have little difficulty finding it.

 

[Bat Vader]

So if the guy/girl who cures cancer goes out to celebrate and gets pissed, says or does something a bit stupid will now more likely get the sack. Some great world we live in.

Should they get the sack? No. They should still be held accountable for their actions though. There is a quote I like from Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire from Stannis Baratheon: "A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad the good".

While that's true, applying it here makes it seem like we've already decided that there is bad to wash out; that what he said is somehow worth punishment or even an apology.

For all the people quibbling over whether or not it was a joke or an honest statement, I have to wonder why the two are considered mutually exclusive. It seems pretty obvious that he was expressing an honest opinion (multiple sexes in the lab can cause problems) in a rather jovial way. It was a rather stupid way to express this, but I don't believe it represents anything he needs to be held accountable for.

Personally I think it is worth an apology. He pretty much generalized and grouped all female scientists into one category. Having and saying an honest opinion is fine but how one says it is important. If he said some women or a few women I believe this wouldn't be as big of an issue. I don't think it would be an issue at all. I have worked with many women before and I have never dealt with what he was speaking about. This FYI isn't just aimed at you it's aimed at everyone. I'm not an SJW so please don't generalize me as one just because I disagree with what Hunt said. The main reason I take issue with what he said is because he used a generalization. I hate generalizations.

 

[Ariseishirou]

As other people have already pointed out, it wasn't a joke. He invented that excuse later when the backlash started growing. He initially doubled-down and declared that he was "just being honest" when challenged on it. Only when he realized there might be consequences did he trot out the "it was just a joke" line - so no, this is what he really thinks, and yes, he said this in the least professional place and the least professional way possible. And got canned for it. Oh no! A professional organization expects professionalism from their professionals!

It's not like I expect the anti-outrage outrage machine to get their facts straight, though.

So if the guy/girl who cures cancer goes out to celebrate and gets pissed, says or does something a bit stupid will now more likely get the sack. Some great world we live in.

This is the world where a guy puts a fricking probe on a fricking asteroid, a scientific achievement of monumental proportions, and then the entire thing gets swiped under the rug because he was wearing a "sexist shirt" while giving a press release. This is not a new thing, just the most recent.

No one "swept his achievements under the rug." This is just an outright lie. They're still widely acknowledged, even by those who objected to his shirt. The number of news articles about the probe landing outnumbered those about the shirt more than an order of magnitude. And the sound and fury over "the shirt" was almost exclusively driven by those were angry that anyone dared criticize someone for wearing something they thought was unprofessional and inappropriate - if you're looking for the pitchfork-wielding mob, it was the one screaming HOW DARE YOU, SJW SCUM!!! over a couple of tweets (which were still largely supportive, such as "#Rosetta #CometLanding was *amazing*. But did no-one at ESA pick up on the message they were sending with this shirt?") that by themselves would have been forgotten.

This is indeed the world we live in, where any criticism of something as inappropriate(even when it quite clearly is) is met with screaming indignation that someone dared do so.

 

[Bat Vader]

Jesus Christ, when did people become such little bitches that so grossly overreact to anything that isn't absolutely PC. Get a grip. How are real issues supposed to be taken seriously when such a major stink gets raised over menial shit like this.

I would expect most people to be intelligent enough to separate real issues from small issues. It isn't really that difficult.

 

[Fallow]

He shouldn't get sacked. The man's science cred should be more valuable than his lack of tact.

He's a scientist! In academia!
His tact shouldn't even be on the damn scale. He's a Nobel laureate and a brilliant scientist; his penchant for in-jokes has no effect on his ability to further human civilization and combat cancer.

I would say I hope all those who rabbleroused to get him fired suffer the very cancer he might have helped prevent, but it's not worth all the unlucky bastards who had nothing to do with this suffering as well.

Remember, getting shot in the head for wanting to attend school isn't important. Colorful shirts and attempted light humor, that's something we all have to fight every day.

I think an apology and maybe a day or so off from work would of sufficed. Being threatened to leave his job or else is way over the top.
Sure his joke was cruddy, but the man probably faced bad experiences with women when it comes to dating. As someone else said, if a woman was to joke about men- there'd be 0 issues and most would laugh. But on no, a guy said it so therefore, it's "sexist" am I right?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.

What? He's an emeritus, you can't block him from work for a day.
His in-joke was not only cute (for everyone that has been working in a wetlab), but also not very controversial (the very thing he mentioned happens frequently[footnote]not all women etc[/footnote]).

His experiences when it comes to women in science were very positive. Guess where he met his wife?

Also, #KillAllMen.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

So if the guy/girl who cures cancer goes out to celebrate and gets pissed, says or does something a bit stupid will now more likely get the sack. Some great world we live in.

Should they get the sack? No. They should still be held accountable for their actions though. There is a quote I like from Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire from Stannis Baratheon: "A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad the good".

While that's true, applying it here makes it seem like we've already decided that there is bad to wash out; that what he said is somehow worth punishment or even an apology.

For all the people quibbling over whether or not it was a joke or an honest statement, I have to wonder why the two are considered mutually exclusive. It seems pretty obvious that he was expressing an honest opinion (multiple sexes in the lab can cause problems) in a rather jovial way. It was a rather stupid way to express this, but I don't believe it represents anything he needs to be held accountable for.

Personally I think it is worth an apology. He pretty much generalized and grouped all female scientists into one category. Having and saying an honest opinion is fine but how one says it is important. If he said some women or a few women I believe this wouldn't be as big of an issue. I don't think it would be an issue at all. I have worked with many women before and I have never dealt with what he was speaking about. This FYI isn't just aimed at you it's aimed at everyone. I'm not an SJW so please don't generalize me as one just because I disagree with what Hunt said. The main reason I take issue with what he said is because he used a generalization. I hate generalizations.

I don't necessarily agree with what he said, I just feel there needs to be a higher threshold of action before an apology is required. While I despise the "never back down, never relent" crowd, I equally despise the way that it seems lately there's an increasing trend of people who expect others to apologise for any belief they don't like.

 

[Kathinka]

Jesus Christ, when did people become such little bitches that so grossly overreact to anything that isn't absolutely PC. Get a grip. How are real issues supposed to be taken seriously when such a major stink gets raised over menial shit like this.

I would expect most people to be intelligent enough to separate real issues from small issues. It isn't really that difficult.

I would like to think so too. But every time I'm half convinced some assbackwards fuckheaded drama queens get their nickers in a twist over a scientist wearing a shirt they don't like and treat it as the second coming of Hitler, or some similar retarded event.

 

[Bat Vader]

Jesus Christ, when did people become such little bitches that so grossly overreact to anything that isn't absolutely PC. Get a grip. How are real issues supposed to be taken seriously when such a major stink gets raised over menial shit like this.

I would expect most people to be intelligent enough to separate real issues from small issues. It isn't really that difficult.

I would like to think so too. But every time I'm half convinced some assbackwards fuckheaded drama queens get their nickers in a twist over a scientist wearing a shirt they don't like and treat it as the second coming of Hitler, or some similar retarded event.

I was one of those people that didn't agree with the shirt. I didn't view the shirt as sexist or anything along those lines I just don't agree with dressing casually to such an important event. I didn't make a big deal out of it like some other people did. I said my piece and was then done with it. Also, while I understand it feels good to insult those people some of those very people are on this forum and they could flag your post for insulting them. Just a helpful FYI.