non Americans: do you think we are violent?

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Steve Waltz

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May 16, 2012
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Joost Klessens said:
And, as has been said before, Americans have a strange preoccupation with guns and gun control. Which is very hard to understand for someone who lives in a country where even cops aren't allowed to always carry guns. Guns kill people. So, basically, less guns is good, IMO. While it seems that a lot of Americans think that less guns is bad, and that they should be able to kill someone if necessary. This combined with America's history of violence on the street and cop violence, etc, makes me think that besides being aggressive and violent towards other countries, America is also very aggressive and violent withing its own borders.
To clarify the gun issue:

The anti-gun Americans agree with you thinking that having guns legal leads to violence. They point at other countries have that outlawed guns and try to make the point that, since they have less violence, guns that the true evil. The second amendment to the US constitution states that citizens have the right to carry guns to be able to create a militia if ever needed. Anti-gun advocates claim that this is an outdated right, and, thanks to public shootings, they think that this right has been abused and needs to be taken away. I?m not really well-versed in the anti-gun advocate arguments.

There are multiple motivations for why some Americans are pro-gun. My favorite one is because of business. Guns create SOOOO many jobs. Guns salesmen, gun range owners, gun accessory designers, etc. If we banned guns, A LOT of people would lose their jobs; that alone is a good reason for why America should keep guns.
The front-runner reason is for self-defense, although this is strongly argued with anti-gun Americans. Personally, I agree that it?s good for self-defense and I have a shotgun for this. But in practice I really do think an armed society is a polite society. In the USA, citizens really can go full-cowboy and carry a gun in a holster without a license or anything. Buy a pistol and holster at a sporting goods store and citizens can walk out of the store wearing them in the open like a new pair of shoes. Seriously though, if I was a woman walking around at night, I would totally open carry a pistol. If a rapist sees a woman carrying a gun around her waist, he should know not to mess with her unless he wants a bullet in his chest. You need a license to conceal a weapon, though.
The third most popular reason as for why Americans want guns is for protection against an oppressive government. Just like most of the posters in here, a lot of Americans also don?t trust the government. If the next Hitler somehow sneaks his way into power, Americans citizens still have our guns to pull a revolution and take our country back. Anti-gun Americans say that the Check-And-Balances system is enough to protect from any oppressive government, but I feel that guns are our lifeline security from having the next Stalin from taking control of the strongest army in the world.
Lastly, a lot of people just want their guns for fun. They enjoy shooting at targets or go hunting. It?s a hobby for some and that generates business (constantly buying bullets, safety equipment, etc.), so it?s OK by me.
 

Dandark

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Sep 2, 2011
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Yes you are all evil monsters that we British foolishly released upon the world but the day soon approaches when we take back our colonies with musket and impractical hat!

I don't think the people over there are particularly more violent than people elsewhere in the world but there are a few differences that make Europeans view you a bit negatively. Other than the stereotypical self righteous "Best country in the world" attitude some people seem to find you have(I think it mostly comes from your politicians rather than your people) the constant chant of "FREEDOM! WE ARE THE NATION OF FREEDOM" makes people expect America to really have a focus on freedom, a view that is shattered when they see some of the anti-freedom police state things that go on over there.

I don't know about others but your Police force is what scares me the most about your country. This may just be me buying into the media narrative but your Police force is ****ing scary. I've lived in Britain my whole life and I'm just not used to the idea of the police being so heavily armed from the standard patrol officer having a gun to use in most situations to police responding to protests with military equipment. Couple that cultural difference with the constant barrage of news stories about officers shooting people when they really shouldn't be, unlawfully killing them, and then getting away with no repercussions and the country sounds like a scary place to be.

TL;DR I don't think the American people are individually more violent than others but the country seems like a place where violence is much more routine and accepted than it is over here.
 

Thaluikhain

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Jan 16, 2010
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Level 7 Dragon said:
Use of nuclear weapons in warfare. Use of biological weapons in warfare. And use of depleted uranium based weapons in warfare.
Nuclear weapons twice, 70 years ago, biological weapons, not for longer, and DU isn't that bad, it's used because it's denser than lead (and otherwise not that useful).

However, conventional weapons are quite horrific as they are.
 

The Lunatic

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Jun 3, 2010
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I don't know, honestly. America certainly has a history of violence.

I guess I wouldn't say I consider that average American to be a violent person, but, I would say that in society, people in America have issues with violence.

I'm not particularly sure why. America is a very large place with very many different issues depending upon where you are inside of it.

Racial tensions in some areas, ideological differences and class disputes in others. It's a difficult area to tackle.
 

maffgibson

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Sep 10, 2013
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Speaking as a British person with a huge soft spot for Americans, yes and no.

Are Americans a nation of orcs, constantly enacting violence on one another? No. The vast majority of Americans I have personally met are intensely lovely and friendly people.

On the other hand, there are certain founding myths which (I believe) dispose Americans and their institutions to violence in certain situations. As an example, the "wild west" mythos: In terms of actual shootouts, lawlessness and good guy with a gun vs. bad guy with a gun, it never really existed in the way that it is portrayed in movies and TV. Even if it had, the applicability of "frontier survival" to a settled civilisation is pretty minimal.

Despite this, this cultural imprint seems (to a European) to have had massive effect on the way the American police force operates (clue: the emphasis is on "force"), as well as the abusability of "self-defense" laws. This attitude of the "virtue of lethal force wielded by the virtous" can also be seen scaled up by the foreign policy hawks in US politics.

That said, the British had a pretty strong similar idea (from very different roots) when we were an imperial power, so maybe it is just a phase that America is going through? The kids grow up so quickly...
 

The Lunatic

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Jun 3, 2010
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maffgibson said:
That said, the British had a pretty strong similar idea (from very different roots) when we were an imperial power, so maybe it is just a phase that America is going through? The kids grow up so quickly...
Certainly! Before we know it, they might even have an empire of their own!


How horrifying.
 

Mister K

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Apr 25, 2011
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I don't think that Americans are violent, although I do think that you are tollerant towards media violence and quite, um, uncomfortable with anything erotic (opposite of your steretypical European). Plus, I think that some of you like your automatic rifles way too much.
 

maffgibson

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Sep 10, 2013
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The Lunatic said:
maffgibson said:
That said, the British had a pretty strong similar idea (from very different roots) when we were an imperial power, so maybe it is just a phase that America is going through? The kids grow up so quickly...
Certainly! Before we know it, they might even have an empire of their own!


How horrifying.
Yes, and in this dark future, we will host numerous American military bases, get roped into sketchy wars, and my computer will autocorrect my spelling to the American style no matter how much I fiddle with the damned language settings...



*Edited for silly grammatical mistake*
 

Scars Unseen

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May 7, 2009
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Gearhead mk2 said:
English guy here. I heard it said once that the world views the US the same way the US views Texas. Make of that what you will. As for my personal opinion, I don't think the US is violent. Really all the US government needs to do is not be so defensive of guns and corporations and it'd be treated the same as any other first world nation.
That seems like a fair comparison. Goes the other way around too. Texas views itself the same way the US does: the best around with little justification. I have a bit of a joke about the state that goes something like this: "How can you tell that someone's from Texas? They'll tell you." It's kind of like part of our introduction. "Hi, my name's Scars Unseen, and I'm from Texas. Nice to meet you!"
 

RedDeadFred

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May 13, 2009
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Well it seems you guys frequently elect people who want war, but no, I don't think you're more or less violent really than any other first world country. Probably less than a lot TBH.
 

darkside-goldstein

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Apr 9, 2015
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I live on a country that's in on the top 10 most violent in the world,i would love some US level of security applied here ,and fiction don't cause violence

in here we had anything from other countries banned until 1989 and killings and kidnappings skyrocketed during the military coop


fiction is a necessary catharsis
 

AwesomeHatMan

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Jul 24, 2012
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From NZ. Yes. I also wonder if the percentage of 18+ citizens carrying handguns on their person in the US is higher than the percentage of police officers in NZ (if you get what I'm trying to say)... Partially due to the fact I think common practice in NZ is to keep police firearms locked in the vehicle I think, but I don't know... Still hopefully that gets the point across... A police or gang related shooting where I'm from is pretty rare...
 

Hagi

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Apr 10, 2011
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I don't think it's so much violent as megalomaniac.

It seems a culture that glorifies power. Be it through threat of violence, money or other means. With a decent bit of paranoia throw in that others seek to take said power for themselves.
 

Sanderpower

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Jun 26, 2014
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Arcane Azmadi said:
I think you're bloody psychopaths. I won't even go to America because I'm afraid I'll get shot. Your cops are racist, state-sponsored murderers and half your people think a gun is more important than a child's life.

Yes, I know I'm judging the majority by the actions of the minority, but I think that's the only way to do things. When people's lives are at stake, you should judge things by their worst aspects, not their average. If a man lives a totally blameless and generally good life except for that ONE time -it was only once, mind- he raped and murdered a child, you don't give him a pass as a good man "on average".
First and foremost, there is a huge difference between judging individuals and judging groups, especially groups you can't choose to be in such as nationality, race, gender, etc.

With your logic, everybody is horrible. British colonization and enslavement of Africa. Blacks in various African countries such as Uganda and Somalia committing genocide. Whites created nuclear bombs and were the only people to ever use them. Japanese raped and murdered many citizens of the Asian countries they occupied during WW2.

Now you may say "well that happened in the past". Well if you're going to compare individuals to groups, then you can't necessarily ignore the past because things are better now. Does a man whose 80 years old be excused for being in charge of a Nazi death camp and slaughtering thousands of Jewish men, women, and children?

You may argue that current good deeds overwrite past bad ones. Does a wealthy doctor who was very generous to the sick and poor, saved many lives, and was mostly a very compassionate and kind person, still be considered a good man even if he raped and murdered a child?

Now you can say we should judge groups by the worst of there CURRENT actions. Well I'd like to point out that a number of Hispanics in Latin America are involved in drug trade and are a major cause of violent crimes. Should we now judge all the Hispanics as being dangerous? What about citizens in drug-war torn countries such as Mexico? What about Muslims and the minority who are terrorists? You see where i'm going with this?

You judge nations by there actions as a whole and you also keep in mind mitigating factors such as cultural differences, citizen's power in there government, how democratic or authoritarian the country is, etc. Even then, you don't generalize all the citizens in that country as being "bloody psychopaths". That's just a gross generalization that borders on bigotry and is definitely prejudiced.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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I think that the spread of US media round the world and the levels of violence within said media maybe give off the impression that America is a horribly violent place, coupled with the fact that a lot of the time the news that we get from the US outside of specific topics is concentrated on shootings etc i.e. the headline grabbing stuff. We don't get the stories of "nothing remotely interesting happened in 99% of the US today, everyone is safe and enjoying a nice burger and beer in front of the superbowl (which, I am led to believe, is what all Americans do when they aren't drag racing their hot rods and shooting their 6 guns in the air to scare off injuns).
 

L. Declis

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Apr 19, 2012
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Oh god yes.

Let me put it like this. I live in China. A Communist, Facist state. I have never felt threatened by any police officer here.

But when I was in America, I was extremely aware that every single cop is a bloody threat and if I act strange, they will shoot and kill me without a single worry. I have never been so thankful I am white and I am extremely British-sounding, which seems to relax them more for some reason.

I have never seen a country that manages to be so obsessed with freedom while being happy to trade away those freedoms; so obsessed with democracy despite only two choices; so brave while being too scared to allow liberty. I have also seen more poverty in some parts of the U.S. than I have in China, a third world country.

Not only did I fear for my life, I knew that if I was shot, my best bet would be to bandage the wound and get a flight back to the U.K. because otherwise, even with insurance, the healthcare of the richest country in the world would bankrupt me because, while it's fine to create a military force stronger than the next 26 countries combined, it's too communistic to accept universal health care.

I have never met a country that so loves it's many cultures and backgrounds but bastardises them because variety is bad for the American palate. I've met more Irish people in America than in Ireland (despite the fact they aren't Irish for several generations) and they're obsessed with their country and won't admit a single wrong-doing of it. Have you tried American Chinese food? Far too sweet, and far too much pork.

A country where Janet shows a nipple is a national outrage that must require apologies but the multiple breaks of the American Constitution aren't even noticed anymore.

It's the country that invented the phrase "What Bleeds, Leads". Of course it's dangerous.

Don't even get me started on its foreign policy.
 

chuckman1

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Jan 15, 2009
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Steve Waltz said:
Joost Klessens said:
And, as has been said before, Americans have a strange preoccupation with guns and gun control. Which is very hard to understand for someone who lives in a country where even cops aren't allowed to always carry guns. Guns kill people. So, basically, less guns is good, IMO. While it seems that a lot of Americans think that less guns is bad, and that they should be able to kill someone if necessary. This combined with America's history of violence on the street and cop violence, etc, makes me think that besides being aggressive and violent towards other countries, America is also very aggressive and violent withing its own borders.
To clarify the gun issue:

The anti-gun Americans agree with you thinking that having guns legal leads to violence. They point at other countries have that outlawed guns and try to make the point that, since they have less violence, guns that the true evil. The second amendment to the US constitution states that citizens have the right to carry guns to be able to create a militia if ever needed. Anti-gun advocates claim that this is an outdated right, and, thanks to public shootings, they think that this right has been abused and needs to be taken away. I?m not really well-versed in the anti-gun advocate arguments.

There are multiple motivations for why some Americans are pro-gun. My favorite one is because of business. Guns create SOOOO many jobs. Guns salesmen, gun range owners, gun accessory designers, etc. If we banned guns, A LOT of people would lose their jobs; that alone is a good reason for why America should keep guns.
The front-runner reason is for self-defense, although this is strongly argued with anti-gun Americans. Personally, I agree that it?s good for self-defense and I have a shotgun for this. But in practice I really do think an armed society is a polite society. In the USA, citizens really can go full-cowboy and carry a gun in a holster without a license or anything. Buy a pistol and holster at a sporting goods store and citizens can walk out of the store wearing them in the open like a new pair of shoes. Seriously though, if I was a woman walking around at night, I would totally open carry a pistol. If a rapist sees a woman carrying a gun around her waist, he should know not to mess with her unless he wants a bullet in his chest. You need a license to conceal a weapon, though.
The third most popular reason as for why Americans want guns is for protection against an oppressive government. Just like most of the posters in here, a lot of Americans also don?t trust the government. If the next Hitler somehow sneaks his way into power, Americans citizens still have our guns to pull a revolution and take our country back. Anti-gun Americans say that the Check-And-Balances system is enough to protect from any oppressive government, but I feel that guns are our lifeline security from having the next Stalin from taking control of the strongest army in the world.
Lastly, a lot of people just want their guns for fun. They enjoy shooting at targets or go hunting. It?s a hobby for some and that generates business (constantly buying bullets, safety equipment, etc.), so it?s OK by me.
in my state you don't need a conceal carry license so you can if you can buy a pistol. We are one of the most gun loving states not in the "bible belt".
 

MorphBallBomb

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Sep 8, 2014
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Generating fear of America abroad is a part of realpolitik, I'm sorry to say.

We are an empire. We do want to rule the world. We do want you think we are that crazy because yes we are crazy.

Embrace the hegemon.
 

Xan Krieger

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Feb 11, 2009
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As an American I'd say our government is extremely violent because they know during any way it's not their lives at risk. They're cowards who are perfectly fine with spending my generation's lives for their money.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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chuckman1 said:
this is a question mainly directed to Europeans but also a bit to Africans and Asians.

Do you think that the United states are violent or scary and crime ridden? I know globally we look good, but compared to rich European countries we may seem like the ghetto. also most of Asia and some of Africa has lower murder rates. The only European countries I can think of with more murder are more corrupt or Russia.

I know my friend from ghana thinks were these crazy barbaric drug addicted violent people. Is that sentiment common?

Violence in the us is half what it was 20 years ago, but in the hood gunshots are a fact of life.

Simply, what do all you guys think of American violence? Are we violent? A lot of our music talks about shooting down your enemies.

Is this just the way it is in a county that was born from violent revolution.

Bonus: also interested in the perspective of other Americans (Mexicans, Chilean) and especially Canada since you guys seem like the cousin who succeeds better at everything.

Edit: plus there's our tendency to invade anyone that can make us a profit for vague reasons as long as the world doesn't all denounce if.

Well, to be honest if you ask a question like this it's of course going to lead to a lot of Anti-Americanism, especially from our rivals, sometimes with hilarious results.

At the end of the day the US is probably one of the least violent countries on earth, but that goes for most first world nations as well, and these kinds of questions tend to only wind up involving the most civilized first world nations. Compared to 90% of the world first world "white" countries are very stable and peaceful compared to Africa, most of Asia, South and Central America, and of course The Middle East, of course a big part of the problem is that news from those parts of the world is spotty at best, and while known to be torn with violent conflict it's impossible to really gauge the extent especially as many of these parts of the world try and present themselves as something else.

A lot of the violence that takes place in the US ultimately comes down to behavior from other countries. As one of the wealthiest countries in the world, as well as one with very open borders and a generally accepting society we welcome international trade, and this makes smuggling and crime relatively easy for people to engage in as they bring some of the few things actually illegal in the US like drugs into the country. Being relatively healthy as well, despite pretensions to the contrary, we're also routine victims of human trafficking. One of the reasons why an American girl can be so valuable on the global market isn't just because of the "exotic" appeal given that whites are actually one of the less common ethnicities globally, and it isn't because of the political power trip, but because of simple things like our quality of vaccinations and health care especially during early childhood. Americans might arguably eat ourselves into obesity but we also carry it fairly well society wise, and before people get into that our infrastructure is top notch. Just the vaccinations an infant can get in the US can arguably be worth a fortune in other parts of the world and guarantee a degree of resilience, which can be valuable if your going to say put a girl into slavery in a whorehouse. It's a point I've had explained to me before and I probably wouldn't have thought of, and results in say Americans and a lot of other people from the first world netting sometimes as much as ten times the going rate for say a domestic human product assuming they bring someone in who is in good shape/pretty/whatever to begin with. The point here being that a lot of our violence has to deal with people bringing it into this country for financial reasons, we've pretty much got every kind of gang and international syndicate present in the US and holding territory somewhere, where other nations usually tend to be a lot less open and thus don't deal with quite as much on such a large scale. Down near our borders for example where a lot of the worst violence takes place it's largely coming from Mexican cartels (which Mexico itself acknowledges are a problem) who want to bring drugs into the US, and of course they just don't run into Law Enforcement but other people from literally around the world who want to do the same bloody thing.

A lot of our other violence largely comes from tolerance as much as anything, as these "commonly heard gunshots in the hood" largely come from allowing say the black counter culture to flourish. Right here in these forums we argue about facets of this all the time, and that's just one internal cultural problem. Other nations that have more stability, including first world ones, might pretend otherwise but have less hesitation in putting boots up asses and not caring about things like political correctness the way the US does. The kind of race warfare crap that we see the media dredging up, and the antics of guys like Al Sharpton simply wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere, which is one of the reasons why these people limit themselves largely to the US. Of course this isn't to say the rest of the world is devoid of this kind of thing, they just don't air their dirty laundry as much. For example we've had massive Islamic riots in nations like France, and it was what two years ago that we have massive youth riots in the UK? The thing is that other countries don't harp on these kinds of things and prefer to forget them, the US on the other hand loves sensationalism so if something happens people are going to bring it up in the media every five minutes to get a rise out of people. This tends to present an illusion that things are a lot worse in the US than they are elsewhere. For example we've taken "Freedom Of The Press" to the point where we allowed the American media to pretty much plaster "Ferguson" everywhere and since it was getting attention it's inspired people to raise similar incidents elsewhere. At the end of the day even with four buildings burned down Ferguson wasn't crap compared to what I saw of those riots in the UK and some of those Islamic riots, the difference is that we're still talking about it and inspiring copycats where other countries prefer to try and forget it and move on, and sure as hell don't let the media glorify it to encourage every media outlet to find their own little bit of similar controversy and see if they can feed an explosion for ratings. Don't get me wrong, freedom of the press is a noble sentiment, but also understand that despite their pretensions otherwise most of the world, including the civilized world, doesn't actually practice freedom(s) the way the US does, which is both a good and a bad thing, and leads to a lot of our turmoil since we both can't keep domestic rabble rousers in line very well, and we also make it so we pretty much see a version of every conflict on earth playing out in our back yard.

It's not uncommon in some forums and chat rooms to hear people, especially from Europe, talking about how the US seems to be on it's way of becoming a third world country because of the people we let run wild, and there is some truth to that, though for the most part we do manage. At the end of the day our relatively loose gun laws (which aren't as loose as many people think anymore, it varies state by state, some like Arizona are very free with guns, others like Connecticut not so much) have minimal impact because the kinds of people causing the problems are going to arm themselves illegally if they can't do it legally, as shown by many of these same people operating much the same way elsewhere in the world. Basically The Russian Mob doesn't give a crap about anyone's gun control laws, neither do Mexican Border cartels, however only in the US are you likely to see these two forces start shooting at each other, and a dozen other similar organizations, all trying to carve out and control valuable smuggling territory. I mean in parts of the country you can literally see competing crime groups with origins on the other side of the bloody planet, mention some of these guys in say Europe and they would be like "Who is that? Never heard of them" because they just never left the doors open the same way.

The bottom line though is that for the most part things remain relatively peaceful due to these groups all being in business and working things out one way or another. I can see why people have the impressions they do of the US due to our media, but at the same time I don't think we're really that much worse off than most of the rest of the world, we just love to sensationalize our dirty laundry. The slight differences are also balanced by the simple fact that no other country really allows the same degree of freedom as the USA despite pretensions, and freedom comes at the cost of less social control. For the record I do think we should embrace some of the attitudes of Europe in being a bit less tolerant of counter cultures (at least in practice, if not in lip service), and find ways of "encouraging" our media to stop airing our dirty laundry to the globe non-stop. I mean cover the problems fine, but six months later we shouldn't have the media still harping on an incident and talking about all these similar incidents happening which largely occurred because they kept covering it and now people want attention. Of course in the US if you so much as suggested we put some of the laws people take for granted (or don't think about) in say the UK into force people here would start screaming about oppression and Nazism... which I think is hilarious, especially on the latter point, since a lot of people here tend to compare the generation of the 1940s and their mentality to Nazis when those are the guys who defeated the Nazis... but that's a whole different discussion, and really the point here isn't for me to rag on SJWs. :)