So, how many indie games have YOU made, earning the right to have the right to tell us that he is wrong?zombie711 said:
Notch Dumps on EA "Indie Bundle"
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
Remind me again why I should care what this egomaniacal one hit wonder has to say? I find it absurd that "indie" devs seem to think just because they made one game we care what they think.
OT: The "Indies are saving gaming. EA is methodically destroying it" bit is just stupid, because despite what Notch says most people would still consider Minecraft "indie" so that's like me saying "posters named major_chaos are saving the Escapist. other posters are methodically destroying it" I also find the whole reaction to this EA indie bundle to be proof of my theory that people on the internet will hate everything EA does simply because EA is doing it.
OT: The "Indies are saving gaming. EA is methodically destroying it" bit is just stupid, because despite what Notch says most people would still consider Minecraft "indie" so that's like me saying "posters named major_chaos are saving the Escapist. other posters are methodically destroying it" I also find the whole reaction to this EA indie bundle to be proof of my theory that people on the internet will hate everything EA does simply because EA is doing it.
While EA IS the ultimate 'nickle-&-dime-em-fest', if you put a bunch of games together for sale developed by independent developers, it's, like it or not, an indie bundle. It makes no difference whether it's EA, Jim's garage, humblebundle or Gay-Bob publishing / fronting it.
As far as each entities reasons or morals for doing it and whether the 'E' in EA stands for Evil, that's another debate.
Off-Topic: I do hope & root for all these indies that don't even have 3 hits under there belt yet (and there are many) can continue the good work, it takes a little longer in the games business (compared to say the music industry) to find out who's the one-hit wonder so to speak.
As far as each entities reasons or morals for doing it and whether the 'E' in EA stands for Evil, that's another debate.
Off-Topic: I do hope & root for all these indies that don't even have 3 hits under there belt yet (and there are many) can continue the good work, it takes a little longer in the games business (compared to say the music industry) to find out who's the one-hit wonder so to speak.
One of the biggest reasons I like the Humble Bundles is because I can choose my own distribution of funds; usually I try to divide it between devs and EFF (or just devs, if EFF isn't a choice for that particular bundle). I'm gonna go ahead and assume that this EA bundle isn't going to support any charity at all, and buyers have no say in distribution. More than likely, EA will get most of the money, and the developers will get a small chunk.
Regardless of whether it's really "indie" or not, EA is missing the point on a grander scale. This was never about getting a bunch of games cheap, it was about supporting the little guy, doing a bit of good, and having the option of DRM-free. Personally, I have purchased every Humble Bundle, activated them all on Steam, and have not even touched the ones that aren't available in Steam... but it's about principle. The fact that we have an OPTION of getting them on OS X and Linux, the fact that we have an OPTION of getting them without DRM... This is the stuff that made the original Humble Indie Bundle so endearing when it first showed up. Focus on consumers rights and the chance to do a good deed. EA is simply incapable of understanding that.
Also, twenty bucks? That's too high if they really wanna compete with "Choose your own price". A large part of the success of the Humble Bundles comes from people who really can't afford games being able to buy games. Yeah, the current Humble Debut's average of $8.89 USD for four games and a movie isn't a lot, but when such a large portion of the buyers might otherwise pass on these games entirely, or pirate them, it's still the better option for the people involved. At an unwavering $20, EA is likely going to be losing more profits to lost sales than they would have to lower per-sale profits. So this not only isn't best for consumers, developers, or charities, but it isn't even really the best for EA, the publisher.
EA has attempted to jump on a bandwagon, but the jump was poorly aimed and landed short. EA is now running behind the pack, struggling to catch up with something they don't even understand. 2/10 for lack of effort, 1/10 for even knowing what they were doing.
P.S. Thanks
Regardless of whether it's really "indie" or not, EA is missing the point on a grander scale. This was never about getting a bunch of games cheap, it was about supporting the little guy, doing a bit of good, and having the option of DRM-free. Personally, I have purchased every Humble Bundle, activated them all on Steam, and have not even touched the ones that aren't available in Steam... but it's about principle. The fact that we have an OPTION of getting them on OS X and Linux, the fact that we have an OPTION of getting them without DRM... This is the stuff that made the original Humble Indie Bundle so endearing when it first showed up. Focus on consumers rights and the chance to do a good deed. EA is simply incapable of understanding that.
Also, twenty bucks? That's too high if they really wanna compete with "Choose your own price". A large part of the success of the Humble Bundles comes from people who really can't afford games being able to buy games. Yeah, the current Humble Debut's average of $8.89 USD for four games and a movie isn't a lot, but when such a large portion of the buyers might otherwise pass on these games entirely, or pirate them, it's still the better option for the people involved. At an unwavering $20, EA is likely going to be losing more profits to lost sales than they would have to lower per-sale profits. So this not only isn't best for consumers, developers, or charities, but it isn't even really the best for EA, the publisher.
EA has attempted to jump on a bandwagon, but the jump was poorly aimed and landed short. EA is now running behind the pack, struggling to catch up with something they don't even understand. 2/10 for lack of effort, 1/10 for even knowing what they were doing.
P.S. Thanks
when has valve released an indie bundle? unless you mean steam bundles, but that is not the same thing.Buretsu said:
valve is the shop, and the devs of those games decided to join all those games together and valve accepted their bundle sale and put it on the shop.
EA OWNS those games, does whatever it wants with it, it owns the studios and funded those games, and then it calls them indie games because theyre smaller and had less money spent on them, in a certain attempt to gain rep points with the smart crowd by showing that it has some quality in it, wich is sth people associate with the INDIE tag. it is a marketing trap and ploy, and its not big of a deal. notch was just commenting on it, and suddenly we make news out of it. this is why i hate fans and gamers.
"Indie" stands, or used to stand, for "independent". Much like "alternative" and "organic", it used to mean that the product was created without an enormous monolithic company behind it, and implied that the standards to which it was created had more to do with the desires of the people who consumed it than the work of a PR & Marketing department.
It may be a little hyperbolic, but I think Notch is basically correct. Oh, I don't think EA or even EA and Activision are doing it alone; they have lots of help from Microsoft and Sony and even Nintendo, among others. But I do fear that their tactics are leading us to a world where blockbuster AAA-games will become relics of the past because they aren't supportable any more.
It may be a little hyperbolic, but I think Notch is basically correct. Oh, I don't think EA or even EA and Activision are doing it alone; they have lots of help from Microsoft and Sony and even Nintendo, among others. But I do fear that their tactics are leading us to a world where blockbuster AAA-games will become relics of the past because they aren't supportable any more.
The thing is, although I find the words 'EA Indie bundle' as repugnant too, this is actually a good thing. All that's happening is that 6 indie games made by genuine indie studios are getting publicity and people will buy them and play them who normally wouldn't even have heard of them. Even if you feel the development studios themselves don't have the right to call themselves indie since someone is publishing their games, well they were still designed with indie spirit, of indie size and indie ingenuity the difference is is someones actually working to sell their games for them who presumably they agreed to let do this.Wierdguy said:
It can't destroy the indie gaming industry because in the end, if any indie company feels like EA is enroaching on them too much they can just say 'I don't want you to publish my games'
I know it feels like we had a cool little party going on and suddenly the bullies turned up and sat down at the picnic and tried to pretend he was cool and could have these fun little social events too but if you look at it with cold hard logic this isn't a bad thing, we've still got our picnic and we're not even sharing our picnic, the bully brought along his own food and whether he stays or goes away we can still have our cake and eat it and ignore him, (or even better, don't ignore him and buy 6 fun little games)
I mean we can't grouch about big publishers not having flexible pricing strategies and advertising little creative games if we're going to complain when they start, even if they use our name to do it
Damn you EA! Damn you!
I agree with everything Notch said about EA. They really are destroying the industry.
I agree with everything Notch said about EA. They really are destroying the industry.
Soon they'll be calling games artisan.
Twitter used for news, really? That's sad, I even see news writers trying to coin the term twitterverse like they did with blogosphere.
Twitter used for news, really? That's sad, I even see news writers trying to coin the term twitterverse like they did with blogosphere.
Nobody's forcing anyone to buy EA's products, or to pay for their "nickel and dime" DLC, or use Origin, or anything else. EA makes a product and offers that product under certain conditions; consumers then choose whether or not they want to lay out their money for it. And millions upon millions of people say "Yes, please."
If anyone in that equation is "destroying" the industry - which, for the record, is absolute nonsense - it's not EA, it's the purchasing public. It's you.
EA doesn't have a gun to anybody's head, and it's the height of ridiculousness to suggest otherwise.
As for Notch's comments, they're beyond disingenuous. "EA is methodically destroying gaming" is not a statement that needs clarification.
If anyone in that equation is "destroying" the industry - which, for the record, is absolute nonsense - it's not EA, it's the purchasing public. It's you.
EA doesn't have a gun to anybody's head, and it's the height of ridiculousness to suggest otherwise.
As for Notch's comments, they're beyond disingenuous. "EA is methodically destroying gaming" is not a statement that needs clarification.
Hang on a minute.
Wasn't this exactly what Extra Credits said EA should do? Make an Indie arm to take care of "innovative" and "new" games while EA proper makes AAA games?
And in that case what would you rather have?
That EA dies or EA may begin to make interesting games?
Wasn't this exactly what Extra Credits said EA should do? Make an Indie arm to take care of "innovative" and "new" games while EA proper makes AAA games?
And in that case what would you rather have?
That EA dies or EA may begin to make interesting games?
Ugh, I seriously wish this guy would take his Lego-ripoff game and just go live in a pixelated hole for a few years alongside Jonathan Blow and every other full-of-themselves "we are the most awesome thing ever" indie studio.
"Indies are saving gaming,"
...Notch said while donning his best hipster outfit.
For every awesome indie game I play, there are about 15-20 that suck beyond measure.
I'm no fan of EA, but get off your wooden horse and take a stroll in someone else's clogs before dumping on who is and isn't destroying gaming.
YOU are not the arbiter of what the industry needs, Notch.
"Indies are saving gaming,"
...Notch said while donning his best hipster outfit.
For every awesome indie game I play, there are about 15-20 that suck beyond measure.
I'm no fan of EA, but get off your wooden horse and take a stroll in someone else's clogs before dumping on who is and isn't destroying gaming.
YOU are not the arbiter of what the industry needs, Notch.
Agreeing with Notch
EA!=indie no matter how you put it sure they might "just" be the publisher and not studio creating them...
But really EA+Indie= hilarious near death experience maniac laugh...
And EA isn't what I would call "the good guys" but they do what most tries to do: earn money, sure not in the nicest way... And yea I have bought both BF3 and ME from EA and do not regret that. (Anyone thinking about calling BF and ME indie yet?
)
EA!=indie no matter how you put it sure they might "just" be the publisher and not studio creating them...
But really EA+Indie= hilarious near death experience maniac laugh...
And EA isn't what I would call "the good guys" but they do what most tries to do: earn money, sure not in the nicest way... And yea I have bought both BF3 and ME from EA and do not regret that. (Anyone thinking about calling BF and ME indie yet?
)
