Notch: Minecraft is Full of Hermaphrodites

[cobra_ky]

What are you going on about? we're talking about gender here, not biological sex. we're talking about masculinity being the default assumption for a person of unknown gender.

Honestly I think my post made more sense than your theory.

Still think that anyone who think that's an issue is insane.

That's not surprising since you didn't actually understand what i was talking about.

Just stop, really. Why is it "insane" to be concerned with the lack of female protagonists in media or ponder the reason why? It's 2012 and the default assumption on any piece of fiction is that the protagonist will be a white male.

That is totally different from what I said.

Where do you people get all this straw?

It's pretty much exactly what you said, since that's more or less exactly what i was talking about and you said anyone who thought that was an issue was insane.

 

[irmasterlol]

Thank you for keeping it civil.

As to your guess - sorry, missed by a mile and then some.

I liked, as in, enjoyed Braid for about half an hour, I still praise it for the novelty "rewind" mechanic. As to its (political) payload, I think it's shite and deserves to be put on the block for people to throw rotten vegetables at. I still recommend it for people to check out and play, though, because I do think it's worthwile and better than, say, Angry Birds, excessive wanking or Facebook.

In a typical trigger-response fashion, you seem to have missed me mentioning that I do not forcibly keep the kids from playing it, in fact I let them use my account to live the Minecraft dream, express themselves with blocks, get eaten by the green cock'n'balls grue at their own leisure, though there is a time limit, as Minecraft does not teach them to read or spell properly and it doesn't introduce them to the other varied intricacies of modern life.

I'm a true, very dedicated escapist. That's why I really love the idea of R&P being (in theory) restricted to the R&P section, which obviously would need draconian punishments doled out in order to be followed, and not constantly undermined by feminist thugs, egalitarian fascists and trojan ponies.

Also, I believe I tend to make it quite clear that these are all my opinions - which doesn't mean I need to respond to every fluffy pink Energizer Bunny trying to challenge my world view by vomiting ideology at me. It's just rude and gets boring really fast.

I think you missed my point in your haste to get back to ranting as soon as possible, or perhaps I communicated it poorly. In any case, I'll try to spell it out a little more clearly. It's laughable that you would accuse Minecraft specifically of being a less valuable use of time than any/all other video games. Yes it would be more productive to go build a house or whatever it is people who don't play video games do, but I find it interesting that you would choose to express that position on a video game website. You know they have entire websites for you to discuss politics without you even having to worry about things like Minecraft that don't teach your kids math and language skills.

 

[chadachada123]

might snip

So to sum this all up, you believe that using feminazi in any sense will not help to distinguish between radical feminism and normal feminism, whereas I was arguing for its use to draw a distinction between the two.

You made fair (and I would say convincing) arguments that the target (anti-feminists) would not learn to distinguish between the two using my method.

I concede on those grounds. You're right. I had hoped for an equivalent to what happened to the word 'Yank,' but it seems like that won't be the case anytime soon. Yank was originally used as a derogatory word by British soldiers to describe colonists, until the colonists actually embraced the word and made it their own. I recognize a difference between that and this case, but I was hoping for a similar taking-over from the bigoted likes of Rush.

(Opinions ahead) However, in respect to the 'No True Scotsman' thing, I would make the claim that radical feminists are not feminists, since they don't believe in legal equality, which is the bar that I would give for actually being a feminist. They don't want equality, ergo they aren't feminists, using the most basic definition of feminism. I think that it would help pull the millions and millions of people in support if any feminists with actual sway publicly condemned *all* extremist views that run contrary to equality.

Shit, the only reason *I* ever learned that feminism and radical feminism were not one and the same was because of a male friend of mine who explained a bit about the various waves of feminism and said that he was a feminist.

I truly think that millions of Americans, males especially, could be swayed using the same tactics that my friend used. Nothing changed, at all, because I've always wanted legal equality for everyone. The sole change is the recognition that, by definition, I'm a feminist because I believe in equality. Previously, I would never have considered, say, signing up for programs or clubs or newsletters dealing with women's issues, expecting there to be at least a 50-50 split of radical feminists to normal-goddamned-people.

That's why I said that history is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that should matter in feminism is legal (and social/etc) equality. Anything beyond that should get a different label, lest you scare away people that can't distinguish between the majority of sensible people and the minority of fools.

My claim is that you don't need to know anything about feminist theory or the like in order to be a feminist. You need only want to strive for equality. (Naturally, my definition also excludes, er, 'androgynist' extremists from being feminists).

This actually reminds me a bit of a singer or actress who said something along the lines of "Feminist leaders today have lost track of what the original goal of feminism was: Equality. (yada yada). I no longer call myself a feminist, but instead a humanist. I fight for the equality of all humans, no matter their gender."

So, yes, I suppose I'm ignoring parts of modern feminism, because I do believe that anything past 'equality for women' is not feminism at all, but a bastardization of it.

Regarding the actual word feminazi, I don't think that the Nazi reference is as deplorable as you seem to think. After all, I use 'grammar Nazi" frequently, but by no means I'm a comparing a pedantic know-it-all to a group that murdered tens of millions of people. I will, however, stop using feminazi in basic usage, except as a clarifier while explaining to others.

Holy shit, that is a nice wall of text. If you do actually read it all, I'd love for an explanation from a (girl...?) like yourself on how guys fit into this equation.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

I think you missed my point in your haste to get back to ranting as soon as possible, or perhaps I communicated it poorly. In any case, I'll try to spell it out a little more clearly. It's laughable that you would accuse Minecraft specifically of being a less valuable use of time than any/all other video games. Yes it would be more productive to go build a house or whatever it is people who don't play video games do, but I find it interesting that you would choose to express that position on a video game website. You know they have entire websites for you to discuss politics without you even having to worry about things like Minecraft that don't teach your kids math and language skills.

I don't like Minecraft.

I admire Notch.

There, simple enough for you?

 

[ElPatron]

It's pretty much exactly what you said

It is not. I know for sure that I won't be able to change your mind and I am pretty sure I am not going to change my opinions on insane people arguing silly stuff not related to the issue you mentioned.

snip

I don't see a lot of people complaining about Soup Nazi either.

 

[Aprilgold]

If Steve was really gay he'd tuck in his shirt.
But is "it" into bestiality?

STEREOTYPES GOOD SIR! DO YOU WANT ME TO CLEAN YOUR HOUSE MR BSTrD!?!

wouldn't a lack of specific gender make everything in Minecraft Asexual rather than Homosexual?
like Sponges

... Sponges... in Minecraft...

Asexuals don't have a drive to have sex, thus the name. The animals in Minecraft reproduce with one another, thus their pretty much homosexual in the way that they are having sex with another of the same gender but it gets confusing when you add in baby animals and yaaay... I pretend its just a adoption agency from the sky that drops them off to their new parents.

________________________________

Well played Notch and I like the gay angle in there, it makes me feel special. ^ __ ^

Of course a feminism debate is going to jump out of this and honestly, feminism right now gets a bad rap because many women use it as a excuse to be complete dicks to men, similar to black guys who think their getting back at the "white man" for decades of slavery by treating white guys like shit.

You are talking about a completely different definition of asexual
one, I might add, which actually applies more to the animals in Minecraft than Asexual reproduction since the animals are completely disinterested in sex until you drug them with an aphrodisiac.
After some research it looks like the title of the article is the most right
animals in Mincraft are hermaphrodites that reproduce sexually but can do so with any other member of the species since they all carry both sexual organs.

however calling the animals Homosexuals is incorrect, there is no such thing as Homosexual reproduction.

The article, in my defense doesn't exactly keep to one, distinct thing, basically saying "Well its whatever you want to be" so I got confused, my bad.

 

[blackrave]

Well, since my Minecraft avatar runs around naked with clearly visible dick, I can assure you that he is male.
(I do it so that I am forced to make at least leather pants to look decent)

Besides that

The traditional feminist response to that argument is that having the central character display traits of masculinity and then arguing that he is "genderless," perpetuates the idea that males are the "base" gender and that females are an exception or a permutation

is surprisingly true

Originally females had close body features (shape, size) to male ones
But females with wider hips and bigger breasts, made more, healthier and smarter children (wider hips made birth easier and kids could have larger heads, while bigger breasts allowed to breastfeed babies more and longer)
This made feminine phenotype/genotype dominant over masculine one
And since evolution is a *****, payoff for this was reduced speed and general leg strength (most female athletes are of masculine type)

What surprises me in all this how close Old Testament combined with legend about Lilith comes to this
Women being created in same time with men? Check.
Originally women being physically equal to men? Check.
Feminine women later replacing masculine women? Check.
Feminine women being the reason for increased intelligence? Check.
Feminine women being "cursed" for this? Check.

P.S. On the other hand, genetically males are the ones that can be considered as "mutation", since our Y chromosome is simply cropped X chromosome. Maybe human baseline is masculine female?

 

[John the Gamer]

If Steve was really gay he'd tuck in his shirt.
But is "it" into bestiality?

It straps pigs into tight leather saddles and rides around on their backs.

So probably yes. It is.

Maybe the creepers are it's ex-mating partners who hold a grudge?

 

[Darkmantle]

Wait... people actually give a shit about Steve? Last I checked Minecraft is a interesting sandbox game where you can build shit not a front for any political agenda.

Haven't you heard? Every problem is the patriarchy, every thing taller than it is wide is a penis and anything you do supports rape culture.

 

[mad825]

OK, let me hand you this, with all my sympathy and love. You know we agree on certain things, so let's cope with disagreeing on some other things, without trying to paint the other the enemy, as that's really of no great use to anyone. If you want me banned, I can serve you just that, with sugar and sparkling shit sprinkles on top, but that's not going to be accounted for on the plus side of your karma account.

Whatever.

You need to take a chill pill once in a while.

 

[saintdane05]

So if blocky Minecraft Steve is a gay hermaphrodite, does this mean we are assigning genders to all video game characters regardless of relevance?

I have always been suspicious of the pong paddle. What's its sexuality?

He is obviously gay. Look at all the balls he likes to touch!

 

[Harbinger_]

So if gender isn't a gameplay element then how come every creature is allegedly gay. And yet animals can breed......

Hermaphrodites can reproduce. They have both types of plumbing, after all. Either that or they asexually reproduce, which the animals in minecraft don't.

They still have genitals is what I'm saying.

He said that all characters are one gender not both genders.

 

[Overusedname]

So if gender isn't a gameplay element then how come every creature is allegedly gay. And yet animals can breed......

Hermaphrodites can reproduce. They have both types of plumbing, after all. Either that or they asexually reproduce, which the animals in minecraft don't.

They still have genitals is what I'm saying.

He said that all characters are one gender not both genders.

...I don't know how to grammatically describe the mechanics at play here. XD

If they sexually reproduce then they still have some form of genitalia, regardless of how notch worded it. Does that help?

I'm confusing myself.

 

[Twilight_guy]

I'm sorry to tell you this Notch but the idea of 'male as default' is a serious issue and one you can't skirt around by saying 'feminist argument' and 'represents a human being'. You can take no side and wash your hands of it, but its not something you can not be involved in, even if you don't want to be. It's like racism in that no matter what color your character is, someone will cry racism just because he is some color. The only escape is to create something distinctly non-human, like a green skinned alien.

Because Notch is obviously a seething misogynist?

You don't need to be a misogynist to be ignorant of social issues.

 

[Tippy]

Guess who made Minecraft? Markus Persson, a guy.

Guess which people run the company that now develops Minecraft? Markus Persson, Jakob Porsér and Carl Manneh - three guys.

Female models will automatically start appearing in games when females decide to start caring about game development. It's only natural to use yourself as a baseline when making games (or any art), which is the entire reason behind males being the "baseline" gender. It's not rocket science.

I would estimate maybe 5-10% (15% being extremely generous) of the gaming industry has female developers. Women may claim to love gaming as much as men, but if they do then they sure as hell don't care about making them.

Bottom line - women can have their goddamn representation in gaming when they make some goddamn games.

Men are doing most of the hard work in development hell and the last thing they need are bands of over-sensitive feminists breaking their door down and crying about being "mis-represented" or whatever. For goodness sake, go make your own games and fill them with nothing but females (we honestly don't care), leave game developers alone...

 

[Kyrinn]

I'm sorry to tell you this Notch but the idea of 'male as default' is a serious issue and one you can't skirt around by saying 'feminist argument' and 'represents a human being'. You can take no side and wash your hands of it, but its not something you can not be involved in, even if you don't want to be. It's like racism in that no matter what color your character is, someone will cry racism just because he is some color. The only escape is to create something distinctly non-human, like a green skinned alien.

Because Notch is obviously a seething misogynist?

You don't need to be a misogynist to be ignorant of social issues.

There's a difference between being ignorant of a social issue and having no need to address an issue. How should Notch have gone about adding a female default? longer hair? block boobs? thinner block frame? I believe Notch made the right call when he just said "screw gender, the default is just human. If they want customization they can do it themselves."

Sure if you polled people to ask what gender they think the default minecraft skin is the majority would most likely say male. However the majority would most likely say they've never even thought about it.

 

[Prosis]

So if gender isn't a gameplay element then how come every creature is allegedly gay. And yet animals can breed......

Hermaphrodites can reproduce. They have both types of plumbing, after all. Either that or they asexually reproduce, which the animals in minecraft don't.

They still have genitals is what I'm saying.

He said that all characters are one gender not both genders.

...I don't know how to grammatically describe the mechanics at play here. XD

If they sexually reproduce then they still have some form of genitalia, regardless of how notch worded it. Does that help?

I'm confusing myself.

Human beings are diecious. This means that there are two genders, and one of each gender is required to reproduce.
Minecraft beings are monoecious. This means that there is one gender. However, two individuals are still required for reproduction; one must provide an egg, while the other must provide a sperm. A real life example would be sponges or worms.
Hermaphrodite means that the individual can play the role of either gender by providing a sperm or an egg. Hermaphroditism can occur in both monoecious and diecious species. All individuals of a monoecious species are hermaphrodites, as each individual can provide the sperm or the egg. An example of a diecious hermaphrodite would be certain plant species. Some individuals of these species can only provide a sperm or an egg (one gender), while other individuals of the same species can provide both (hermaphrodite).

Also, considering Minecraft's constant defiance of basic laws of physics, it really wouldn't surprise me if Steves popped up out of the ground, like dwarves.

 

[Twilight_guy]

I'm sorry to tell you this Notch but the idea of 'male as default' is a serious issue and one you can't skirt around by saying 'feminist argument' and 'represents a human being'. You can take no side and wash your hands of it, but its not something you can not be involved in, even if you don't want to be. It's like racism in that no matter what color your character is, someone will cry racism just because he is some color. The only escape is to create something distinctly non-human, like a green skinned alien.

Because Notch is obviously a seething misogynist?

You don't need to be a misogynist to be ignorant of social issues.

There's a difference between being ignorant of a social issue and having no need to address an issue. How should Notch have gone about adding a female default? longer hair? block boobs? thinner block frame? I believe Notch made the right call when he just said "screw gender, the default is just human. If they want customization they can do it themselves."

Sure if you polled people to ask what gender they think the default minecraft skin is the majority would most likely say male. However the majority would most likely say they've never even thought about it.

This isn't an issue you can opt out of. It's not even about people's conscious decisions. It's about societal norms. It's like entropy, you can't win, you can't break even and you can't quit. Whether or not he chooses to address it, it's still an issue and he's still playing into it. You can make all the claims you want about neutrality but social issues are not something you can escape because you can't escape society. You can't escape the norm influencing and being influenced by your decisions. Weither or not he chooses to address this, society has influenced his decisions and his decision will influence society, in this case reproducing the idea of male as default because people see the character as male. They see it as male because of a social norm and he represented a 'human' with traits that can be construed as stereoscopically male because of influences on him. If nothing else, at least my anthropology and sociology classes taught me that. You can call bullshit if you'd like but, everything I've seen has taught me that the wibbly wobbly complex ball of society is a big mess that works this way. Also, whoo postmodernist reasoning!