Politeia said:
ElPatron said:
To me it's "radical" to whine about things that are only scientifically debatable, not something that it's up to people with a college degree in FemiNAZI Baloney and Liberal Misogyny Bullshit. Who the hell CARES about what appeared first?Radical people. I can't imagine anyone sane convincing him/herself that appearing first is actually a big deal.
You're clearly denigrating an entire field of study, Women's Studies if I had to make a guess. It's certainly the one that most people accuse of being man-hating radicalism and that seems to be your point above.
When I mention imaginary degrees, it's because they don't actually exist.
I understand what you are getting at, though. I am really pissed off by people in the government claiming to have degrees that they did not finish or that did not exist (scandals that happen every 4 years or so here). It would be foolish of me to expect you to understand my frustration if you haven't been bombarded with news pieces about corruption for weeks.
Politeia said:
My statement that you watch too much Fox news was not used in my conclusion that you're wrong (...) watching too much Fox News was offered as an explanation for why you believe what you do.
Again, Cal Lightman much? If you're here to offer those analysis without any basis then it's as fallacious as any Ad Hominem.
The media in my country are basically "let's talk shit about the government, but just state the facts and leave opinions at home". The state owned media are more like "let's talk *some* shit so that people don't get suspicious".
I have no idea what wing they are because honestly... their owners have changed political allegiance more times that I care.
Politeia said:
I don't think you understand that those two are pretty much the same, the degree you get is in a field or subset of that field. Now you're angry at the fact that a college degree in whatever looks better on an application than a high school diploma? Do you even know what you're angry about?
Taking into account the number of licensed and unemployed in my country and that a lot of degrees are "cursed" with a dead-end in terms of career, I'm not even sure they even look
better.
Plus, licensed people are entitled to more privileges than highschool graduates. Rather hide the degree on that diploma if you want a job.
Politeia said:
One of the most interesting things about privilege is that people who have it often aren't aware of it.
How convenient.
Politeia said:
Now I'm biologically male, but gender-queer and with a very feminine build. I'm 24 and can easily pass for an 18 year old woman if I put a meager amount of work into it. I'm assuming you've never gone out in public in drag, had to experience what it's like being a woman and how other people view you. It's often, not pretty.
I have never actually went out in drag but most of my friends did it. It's kind of a cultural thing, lots of men do that in Mardi Gras or Halloween. So no, I would never experience what you did because even if I ever decide to do that - it would be considered normal even in the most religious places in this country.
Politeia said:
Let's get one thing out of the way, if you look like an attractive woman men are grabby.
Doesn't happen often where I live. A big chunk of the population near me are first and second gen Chinese, and their culture is much different.
About white males, here they are sort of grabby but only among close friends.
Politeia said:
I made the mistake of going out to a metal concert once, in drag, and was constantly being felt up all night. I'm light so I climbed up on a friend's shoulders to take pictures...and there was the crowd of people demanding I show them my "tits". After a few minutes they knew it wasn't happening so they went back to the show, that's what someone nearby threw a beer at my head and yelled "show us your fucking tits". I gave him the finger and shook my head at him and he responded with "so show me your ass I don't give a shit". Supposedly he leaned over to another friend of mine and said "what a stuck-up ****" after that.
The usual "she is at X so she must be a slut" logic. Kind of shames the metal movement as a whole. Without trying to excuse their actions, the fact is that those people have been exposed to a world where many people are like that, and they became socially retarded.
I'm sure you have heard about college hazing. Ironically, those women who get real degrees in Women's Studies (and others) in this country are also doing "slutty things" and simulating sexual intercourse with the male freshmen.
I don't really consider it a privilege, I consider it disgusting. In my college I participated in the hazing ritual because it was actually pretty tasteful. Driving cardboard cars (with suggestive license plates), worshiping a picture of a naked woman (because Mechanical Engineering = volunteer celibacy) and basically being slaves to the female seniors (walking about with umbrellas over their heads, bringing them drinks, etc).
So you now know that there is a big contrast between colleges even in the same city. One of the biggest reasons I was against extreme hazing was because I assumed it was done for the pleasure of men. I was wrong. This might sound silly, but it's not just the male seniors telling people to do those things - female seniors take part on those events too. I don't know what the heck they do with the girls because they all parrot the same "it's all to keep us at the same level and promote comradeship". Either way, it is consensual in a very ironic way.
Politeia said:
This is hardly isolated, there's a video of Samantha Wright competing in a weightlifting competition on youtube. If you don't know who that is, she's very attractive. The top-rated comment on youtube is "she can clean and jerk me anytime".
Men do that. I don't think it's a privilege, I just think that it's something that men do all the time in secret, and rarely do in public. The internet gives them the opportunity to show their true colours.
I wouldn't do anything beyond complimenting her looks because of decency, and I don't like being rude. But if I were to say that from now on I will never make that remark in private, I would be making a promise I couldn't keep.
Either way, if being rude is a privilege then I think women should be more rude. Some men don't like it, personally I don't mind.
Politeia said:
Example of male privilege number 1: Regardless of how attractive you are; you will never have to worry about being molested at a concert or having all of your worldly accomplishments whittled down to your sex appeal.
As the Anti-American, conspiracy theorist and self-diagnosed asexual bleeding-heart Marxist prick I used to be during my childhood, I was "molested" (between quotes because I am never sure how to use that word).
I am talking about having my pants pulled down, groped, etc.
It's what happens when you're in a school where there are a lot of girls, specially older ones. I am not uncomfortable talking about this because I hardly feel a "victim".
Unfortunately it was too soon for me to have taken any advantage of the situation. Yes, I am being serious, it's a "double-standard". Today I wouldn't have felt so disturbed by being groped, even if I still remember it wasn't funny back then.
with the number of folks of both genders who seem to view this as just "boys being boys" it's clearly a problem.
It is a problem, I never looked at it that way because no matter how shitty our educational system was (and still is) we deal with those problems when there is no consent. However, if you're a girl everything you do is "just playing". Same applies if there is any racial conflict between the adults and the kids. Because nobody wants to deal with people from other races.
Good for you, but you don't see how being an atheist could also grant you some measure of privilege in certain communities? Say, an international community who views atheists as being more rational than theists? Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher believe religion is caused by any number of various chemical imbalances in the brain, you don't think being an atheist in their circle grants you privilege?
That is the silliest theory about religion I have ever heard.
I still don't think that "not collecting stamps" could get me farther than just "joining their club".
ElPatron said:
Me personally? No one has ever looked at me and worried I might try to rob them. This is the problem with people who don't understand how privilege works. You're taught that discrimination is just individuals being mean, you never see the corrupt systems at work.
I have. I wear hoodies. Sometimes I come back from college after 11PM. I put the hoodie on, nobody gives a fuck about my colour. Everyone takes a glance at me, stares at the ground and starts walking away faster.
I am slightly taller than the average man and I like sporting a beard. Heck, even if I shave I look like Eminem at night.
Most of the things we are comparing depend heavily on culture. Where I am from, nobody gives a fuck about your colour because the chances of being robbed by a white are actually higher.
Heck, from the times I got mugged, 2 times were whites and 1 black. That's 2-1.
Politeia said:
Where do you live? I thought you weren't American.
Europe.
Politeia said:
ElPatron said:
In fact, the only white-male environments I have ever been were my visits to military bases with my father and the mechanical engineering facility in college.
You mean to tell me that, your entire life, you have only ever lived in areas where the majority are non-white females? And you expect me to believe this, seriously?
Okay... I think we have a slight advantage on the female side. I don't remember the percentages, but they are not too different so I am not going to claim anything definitive.
In terms of race it's neatly divided by whites and non-whites. My neighborhood was built in the 50's to house blue collar workers, which means that a big chunk of the population is old-whites. If you only count people in working age, Asians and Blacks have outnumbered the white population for some time.
ElPatron said:
I'm unemployed, living off benefits, and my degree is in photojournalism. This is how one dispels a strawman.
Also, I've never insulted you not claimed to be more intelligent than anyone else. This is simply a product of your mind coming up with a way to detract from my arguments.
Okay, then I take back what I said. But I keep saying that I never meant to insult "liberal intellectuals" as a whole. Just pseudo-intellectuals and assholes that happen to be liberals.
If you want examples, here it goes:
> Bill Reilly. He can be called an "intellectual" but honestly the man can't do good TV. Also, he will be an asshole to you if you're different in any way.
> Glenn Beck. The man doesn't even have a degree, which is fine by itself, but he pretends that he knows Economics and Politics because he's a white collar. Pseudo-intellectual with a degree in Bullshit And Conspiracy Theories.
> Rosie O'Donnell. Another pseudo-intellectual. I am not impressed by the "I'm a dyke, hurr durr" act. Whatever reason she might have behind her opinions, the woman is purely obnoxious and a complete hypocrite (against 2nd Amendment rights, but wanted one of his bodyguards to have a concealed carry permit).
This is basically the only insight I can give you related to American culture. I don't expect everyone in the world to understand my hate for certain kinds of people - but whenever I have a chance to explain myself I will take it.
