Notch: SteamOS is "Saving the Entire Gaming World"

[Baldr]

I too am confused about how Win8 is bad for independent developers. Unless I missed the rioting I'm pretty sure all the applications that run on Win7 (independent or otherwise) also run on Win8. So I don't see how there could possibly be any sort of mechanism that can pose an obstacle for new applications.

I may not be thrilled with what I've seen of Win8's UI design choices but I suspect before long I will be using it and discovering it's not as bad as I feared. Or at least something I can adjust to.

I seriously can't wait for this machine. I'd buy it, it would probably have keyboard and mouse support.

Which machine is that?

Sadly this has nothing to do with PCs, this is a power play down the road in 10-20 years when most devices will be more tablet-like than PC.

 

[lacktheknack]

Come on, it was an initial marketing announcement. We don't really have any concrete details on how anything works yet. It's not even the only announcement this week.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds amazing, but until we know more we should reserve judgement.

This. Let's not be pre-emptive, here.

Look! Valve announces an OS and gamers rejoice, except that they apparently don't know the difference between an announcement and actual FACTS. It seems this is a proprietary system that is designed to run with a Steam approved box, and streams games from your PC. So... you're going to have to have a PC anyway that probably runs Windows so you can play the massive catalog of games NOT available on Linux. In otherwords, in VALVE terms its not really an O/S but a co-O/S, so its not a savior, just a tool of convenience.
Something for people like my wife who has trouble playing games on PC because her disability makes it difficult to sit at a PC for a long time.
Notch dude, you make a good game but you seem to talk out of your ass sometimes. If you hate Microsoft/Windows so much why did you make a game that runs on it? Or port it to Xbox360?

Oh, come now, you're falling for your own words. He made Minecraft BEFORE Windows 8 came out and public opinion went to hell in a handbasket.

 

[lacktheknack]

I didn't get this announcement either. So let me get this straight...

They are making a steam box so you can play your games "streamed" from your PC? This means the users that wants to use this are one of the minority of people that can afford "Big Picture" (that includes a HDTV which is not cheap at all) and they have to be primarily PC gamers (having a big PC game library).

The majority of the PC gamers that only play on that platform have no trouble sitting at their PC and playing games with m&k and/or controller. Remind me again how is this "saving the game world" Notch?

No, they've announced an OS, not a "Steambox". It's an important distinction.

It's an OS, meaning it could end up being a complete alternative to Windows, and that's how it would "save the game world". Of course, literally everything that's not explicitly stated on this page is pure speculation. So don't herald or condemn anything too early.

 

[Skeleon]

I don't want anything to do with Valve's OS and I really don't care whether Notch likes it or not. It's not like I plan to use Windows 8 either, mind, but this unthinking fandom is... annoying to say the least.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Couldn't you just reformat and install the OS you want?

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: Yes, assuming you plan to completely detach yourself from Microsoft and windows entirely. Windows 8 and it's secure boot make dual booting quite a difficult task compared to the previous method involving Windows 7. Unless you built the PC yourself from scratch and it doesn't have secure boot, you would have to resort to some pretty technical modifications to the boot, or choose Windows 8 from the boot menu.

I've done this before with a Windows 8 laptop. The grub loader menu, that usually gives you the option for and windows doesn't show up at all and simply skips that and goes into whatever distro you happen to have installed. In order to get into Windows 8, you would have to use the boot menu and specify the W8 partition for boot.

It's bit of trouble, luckily for me I don't use windows anymore.

On that note: I'm quite excited at the information on the page for SteamOS that states that we can expect AAA titles to be announced as native games for the OS. Native games for SteamOS is most definitely native for Ubuntu (Since Steam OS is BASED on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS), and possibly other distros. Even if said game doesn't work initially on another distro, the community would have figured it out in a matter of days, if not hours.

 

[Yopaz]

This tripe isn't even on the common market and the hype train is already well on its way to derailing. At least wait a few months to see if they don't immediately forget about it or slate it for release some time between now and forever.

Stop being so reasonable. We have to decide what we feel about everything before we have proof telling us what we should really feel or our feelings get tainted by reality. You've got 10 seconds to decide if you love or hate this Steam OS we know nothing about! Hurry or you'll fall into that small group that both the fans and the haters gang up on!

Yeah, I think we should see how it works before we hail Valve as the saviour of the game industry or decide that they are doomed to fail. I am interested to see what happens though.

 

[loc978]

Here's a question, and I mean it as a legitimate one:

Do you think Valve will allow Origin on this OS, or do you think EA might try and make their own?

to add to the cacophony of replies you've gotten... http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=26175 -

Unless they intentionally make certain packages not work, you'll at the very least be able to run it through Wine (with bugs. Lots of them). Even Mac OS X can run things through Wine.

 

[Amaror]

What we are forgetting is that it's the cool thing to attack Windows 8 and Microsoft at the moment, for most of us it comes down to not much more than the odd hate filled post about how much a certain feature sucks but when you're a billionaire and in charge of the largest game delivery client well a forum post isn't quite cutting it, no you have to base an entire set of business decisions that could not only effect your company but potentially your millions of loyal customers. Not to worry folk a year or so and the next version of Windows will be out and it will be great and no longer cool to attack Microsoft and Windows and all THIS, this non sense will just seem to dis appear.

Even if that happens. Even if Windows does his regular cycle and stops sucking for one version again, SteamOS would still be a good thing. Having more than one OS as an real option to pc gamers can only be good. It leads to competition and competition is always good for the consumer.
But i said would and the reason i said would is: Isn't SteamOS supposed to be an OS for a kind of Steam console, not the pc?

 

[Brian Tams]

Notch is starting to sound more like Peter Molyneux by the day.

Seriously, we have very, very, very little information on what this actually is. How can we possibly say that it will "save the gaming world" (whatever that means)?

 

[IamLEAM1983]

My one and only question is as follows: assuming I get an ATX or ITX case I devote to all things Steam and Linux, will I need a dual Linux boot with some other distro if I'm wanting to keep my options open for office work?

Seeing as I don't really want to end up with a Windows PC for clerical stuff and an assembled or prefab Linux Steam Box of sorts for my gaming needs.

 

[Athinira]

Technically yes but the process you'd need to go through involves tampering with the system in some unintended ways. It's difficult and grueling. Microsoft threw up as many obstacles as they could in order to make it as difficult as possible to downgrade unless you have the Pro version of windows 8 which is obviously more expensive. It involves tampering with the operating system in ways that microsoft didn't intend. They mostly hope that it will either be too expensive or be such a pain in the ass that people will decide not to go through the trouble and just stick with windows 8.

No it doesn't. You are speaking about something of which you apparently have little understanding.

With Windows 8 and the introduction of UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface, essentially meant to replace the BIOS), Microsoft has introduced OS signing by a feature called "Secure Boot", meaning that Operating Systems needs to be signed to be able to run on a computer. This is an effort to disburb malware and rootkits that tamper with core OS functionality. It also means that on computers sold with Windows 8, it is impossible to run any other OS unless you either disable Secure Boot, gets it signed by Microsoft og replace the keys that verifies the OS.

So far so good, but here is where you went wrong:
1) It's not 'unintended' tampering. It's perfectly outlined in the specifications.
2) It's not difficult. The options are in EUFI (BIOS) and are easily accessible and are easily disabled.
3) The options can be used to benefit other OS's than Microsofts by replacing the keys. If you want to run a secure Linux distro, you can sign the distro with your own keys and insert them into UEFI, and it will verify your own OS.
4) The entire process of disabling Secure Boot can be done in less than a minute.

As for the thought that Microsoft just wants to make it hard to downgrade from Windows 8, I'd call that accusation short-sighted. Malware is an increasing and real threat, and this system (UEFI) is intended to be used for many years to come (several decades perhaps). I consider this forward thinking, and an important step for handling malware in the coming IT generations.

Long answer: Yes, assuming you plan to completely detach yourself from Microsoft and windows entirely. Windows 8 and it's secure boot make dual booting quite a difficult task compared to the previous method involving Windows 7. Unless you built the PC yourself from scratch and it doesn't have secure boot, you would have to resort to some pretty technical modifications to the boot, or choose Windows 8 from the boot menu.

Secure Boot isn't a "Windows 8" feature. It's a UEFI-feature, and therefore designed and implemented in the motherboard, regardless of the system you have installed.

I won't get into the Linux-distro issue, because i have little experience with dual-booting Linux and Windows (used to run Linux stand-alone on an old server of mine, but that was years ago), but if Secure Boot is disabled, the problem is entirely 100% related to Windows 8 and the Windows MBR then. Secure Boot is a hardware feature of UEFI, not a software feature of Windows 8.

This also means that in the future, all motherboards sold for PC's you build yourself - even from scratch - are gonna come with Secure Boot. However, it's likely to be disabled by default (compared to laptops and likely a lot of pre-built desktops), where it's gonna be enabled by default).

 

[Strazdas]

I feel there's something slightly amusing about Notch praising SteamOS and how much he loves Valve despite Minecraft STILL not being available on Steam =P

Still, he has a point. Should be interesting to see how much the "Steambox" differs from a standard PC

why do you need minecraft on steam? you can get it from minecraft official page. without steam DRM. (though from what i hear they went so far with thier antipiracy measures now that it made a worse DRM on itself.)

Um...

Notch needs to pull his head out of his butt.

Why does Windows 8 worry him? Because people have this weird, bizarre, fictitious scenario in their heads where they lock down everything to the Windows store and take 30% of all sales from every software purchase in the Operating System, thus committing company-wide suicide in the process very likely.

Why is Valve "Saving the Entire Gaming World"? Because they made an operating system that... locks down everything to the Steam Store... that takes 30% of all sales from every software purchase in the Operating System.

Stupid. Double Standard. Microsoft's scenario isn't even -real-, and he's concerned about it. Valve's OS is committing the very act that he is/was concerned about, and he doesn't care, and in fact loves it in the same sentence that he is condemning Microsoft.

Can we please stop paying attention to this idiot now?

The weird bizarre scenario is not ficticiuos. that was the plan during the win 8 announcement untill they backpedaled into it. It went something like "you will have to verify every program via our support service to make sure you dont install virsues or programs we dont like". But the outrage made them do a 180 before the Xbox 180 was out.
Steam, on the other hand, claim it is going to be free, open OS, with which you can do everything you want.
I dont see this as double standard.
Microsoft standard being real is one auto-update away. the infreastructure is layed out in win 8.

So, based on just one announcement Notch has already determined SteamOS to be the gaming equivalent of the messiah. Guess he knows more than basically everybody including the people at Valve themselves.

Either that or he believes Gabe Newell has appeared before him in the guise of a steaming cup of ultra-strenght coffee and tasked him with leading the PC Gaming Master Race to the Promised Land[footnote]That was sarcasm fyi[/footnote]

Also, he confuses PC gaming and entire gaming world.

There is no need to trut around, console peasants wont go into heaven anyway[footnote]that was sarcasm too[/footnote]

 

[clippen05]

Even though I'm a PC gamer I don't think the SteamOS is gonna have much of an effect on the gaming world. Simply because, anyone who already has a rig is just going to continue to use that, as you can only stream games to SteamOS. (Well, you can play Linux games, but that's not a lot, maybe a couple of my library of 50+ games are Linux based.) And anyone who is looking to migrate from console isn't in any better of a boat as you still need to have a decent rig to play most of the games and then another device for streaming to your couch. I don't understand what the big deal is with Valve and living room gaming. It's not like people weren't doing it before Big Picture Mode and its not like BPM did much at all. There's this thing called an hdmi cable...

 

[Strazdas]

I say stuff about things all the time. Where's my front page article? Are you telling me all I need to do is make one good game and then it's front page for life?

According to how peter molyneux is treated, your one game does not even have to be good.

Technically yes but the process you'd need to go through involves tampering with the system in some unintended ways. It's difficult and grueling. Microsoft threw up as many obstacles as they could in order to make it as difficult as possible to downgrade unless you have the Pro version of windows 8 which is obviously more expensive. It involves tampering with the operating system in ways that microsoft didn't intend. They mostly hope that it will either be too expensive or be such a pain in the ass that people will decide not to go through the trouble and just stick with windows 8.

>format c: /s
problem solved.

There's this thing called an hdmi cable...

The magical HDMI cable that most people think is a myth and blame god when it trips them over walking inside the room.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

Can't say I'm terribly excited. Sounds like it will turn out similar to steam; lots of decent features but runs like complete shit.
I'll probably stick to the current consoles until this or the ps4/xbone gets a decent price and proves to be worth getting.

 

[Donzacuceron]

So, based on just one announcement Notch has already determined SteamOS to be the gaming equivalent of the messiah. Guess he knows more than basically everybody including the people at Valve themselves.

Either that or he believes Gabe Newell has appeared before him in the guise of a steaming cup of ultra-strenght coffee and tasked him with leading the PC Gaming Master Race to the Promised Land[footnote]That was sarcasm fyi[/footnote]

Also, he confuses PC gaming and entire gaming world.

Implying PC gaming needs to be saved .

 

[freaper]

Here's a question, and I mean it as a legitimate one:

Do you think Valve will allow Origin on this OS, or do you think EA might try and make their own?

Good question. I don't think Valve would get away with blocking the competition when they said it was going to be an open platform, that said I think EA would attempt their own version so they can bugger it up and be unpopular. Valve probably wouldn't stop Origin being available, they just wouldn't help.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, EA's been making some sound decisions since their former CEO's lay-off, and trying to make their own OS seems like jumping on a bandwagon that might not even go that far. However, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Athinira]

>format c: /s
problem solved.

Not really. Read up on Secure Boot. As explained in my last post (which critisized the poster you're quoting), it's not very prudent to talk about things you have very little understanding.

With a UEFI-bios, making a drive bootable isn't enough. The BIOS/UEFI has to allow booting into the OS, and if the OS isn't signed, you need to disable Secure Boot to make it work.