NYT Rejects Comic About #Yesallwomen

Dragonbums

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May 9, 2013
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To he honest while I giggled the comic just went on too long. By the third panel the joke ran it's course. The fourth panel should of been the round up. That's not to mention the fact that the font choice is fucking terrible. Assuming that this was going to be a physical print as well- come on dude. It seems that you are familiar with comics. You should know this by now. The text is too scrunched up and there is too much space.
 

Achelexus

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Korolev said:
You know what? This comic isn't funny - it isn't funny because that's a fairly accurate depiction of most "MRAs". Except for the fact that they have the bodies of babies, that's literally what a lot of them say. I mean, I know the comic is supposed to be funny by exaggerating what MRA people say, but it's not an exaggeration - that's LITERALLY how they behave, that's literally how they feel, that's literally what they say to each other.

This comic isn't funny. It's tragic.
Erm... I don't think you've ever gone to a MRA forum.
 

tmande2nd

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Oct 20, 2010
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"Hey they did not let me post my poorly drawn, straw man using, overly long comic!"

In the words of grumpy cat "GOOD"
 

BoogieManFL

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Yeah that was just dumb. Sure some might consider that offensive for other reasons, but to me it was just offensively dumb.
 

Azaraxzealot

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First the topic...
Well it is flame-bait. No two ways of putting it. This was made with an obvious hatred for the "typical" MRA. It does indeed fall HARD into the strawman fallacy, which I don't approve of. I also don't approve of how long it went on just beating the horse they killed in the first two panels, and the whole "I peed myself." Bit was unnecessary. The one point it almost made was when one of the babies said "it makes me uncomfortable." See there could have been something there. Why does it make those that are so outraged by the existence of feminism so uncomfortable to see and hear the things women have to worry about that we don't?

I've been reading the comments here and on WGDF (the teaser) to help me use the restroom while I'm in the hospital (since my "going" is stimulated by intense stress or anxiety) I am so sad that it works for me, because I always thought the escapist was (at least in intention and generally speaking) a place of rationality, respect, understanding, and a desire for equality. But after seeing all these comments I'm just heartbroken to see how misogynistic and anti-feminist this community is. Maybe I willingly blinded myself to it to only really notice it now but this one-two punch of seeing the reactions to WGDF and this has raised my stress levels over how a community I've been a part of for more than half a decade is actually much more hostile to the very implication that things may be wrong with society (especially games) and we may be part of the problem than I thought we'd be. My reaction was one of enlightenment. I internalized the arguments presented by feminists regarding games and the all the struggles they face by virtue of just being a woman day to day, and I looked at society in a different light and thought "what can I do to help my fellow person not feel this way?" I never used to think about things like how I don't have to worry about random strangers violating me on the street or making harsh judgements on who I am based on what I'm wearing or having to be scared that rejecting someone's advances could put my safety in jeopardy or that if I were a gamer as a woman people would constantly call my status into question and I'd have to prove myself... Now I do think about these things and for me, exposure to feminism made me just more aware of how others who are not me are facing a whole subset of problems that I don't even have to think about just because they were born with different parts. And the unfairness of it makes me angry and depressed at the same time, because it's not fair to me such a large number of people not feel as represented or as cared about or as secure and I just really want everyone to feel secure and represented and equal, because if not for things like civil rights and all the other social progress that's been done I would not have met or befriended so many amazing people in my life and I'm sure you all can think of someone that, without some form of social progress, you probably would never have got to know. More social progress (for now it has to be mostly on the media and personal levels, changing small perceptions and stereotypes when we can) means more people coming out of the woodwork or being allowed past the arbitrary gates that society has put up to participate equally in more activities, which will only improve those activities since there are more people there to interact with and share knowledge with.

After my revelation and internalization I began to wonder if others like me (white straight men) reacted the same way. Then I read these comments sections or literally anything else that brings up gender (especially in regards to games). I just don't understand why it makes this community so angry to see people pointing out obvious things about games or society and then asking if we can work on it together so they can feel more included (just because we aren't experiencing a problem doesn't mean no one is our that the problem is being made up, I don't know why so many can't see that). It's not like they want to take away what we have they just want to, maybe, feel more included? Like all the rest of us did when we came into geek culture? Where does the hostility come from? The resistance to change or the possibility of it? How does it hurt us if change occurs?

Look, I'm sorry if I just made anyone mad I've just been so depressed what with the combination of seeing the depressing number of people commenting that would fit perfectly into the WGDF and the MRAs (seriously guys... it's about as defensible as white supremacy arguments, because your arguments are "we want to make sure we get equal treatment at the same time and not just when the feminists say it's our turn" and their logic is "we want to make sure white people get the same treatment and not just when the civil rights activists say it's our turn") here merely scoffing at the feminist perspective in the comic. I cried a little, honestly, I didn't think it was this bad...

Now I know people like me are just labeled as self-serving white knights (I've been called that by both sides of the discussion) and that I only pretend to hold these views to get girls or appear sensitive. I only wish I could prove otherwise so people wouldn't use that assumption to disregard what I say, but I guess I have to live with it. Anyways that's my last rant on gender issues here at the escapist for at least a while. Here's to hoping maybe someday down the line these rants won't need to happen because more people have internalized the disparities of the world. I also hope I don't get dozens of angry replies for this, I wasn't trying to make anyone angry :(
 

soren7550

Overly Proud New Yorker
Dec 18, 2008
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Ah, so that's what the #yesallwomen thing is about.

OT: As said before, while it's a bit too on the nose and unpleasant to look at, I don't see why the NYT rejected it for being 'too sensitive'.

Off topic: Why is everyone's avatar replaced with the default one? Is it just me seeing this, or is it a minor bug?
EDIT: Well, my avatar isn't showing up, and it persists for every user I see.
 

Robot-Jesus

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Aug 29, 2011
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Karloff said:
I'm surprised nobody else here seems to be wondering whether recent events at the Times has more to do with this than the quality of the comic's art.
Whatever the Times has done in the past it has no bearing on this comic. The art of the comic is bad, but the content in nonsensical. The thesis is literally "people who do not share my point of view could only possibly do so because they are over emotional children". #yeasallwomen is not a very good campaign, it take complicated issues of sexism and rape culture and boils it down to #allmenareguiltybyassociation. Perhaps it started as something different, but twitter is not the greatest forum for nuanced discussion.
 

sageoftruth

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Jan 29, 2010
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Wow. I kind of wish I could've seen what it was like when the writer was brainstorming this comic. Was he on drugs? Was he drunk? Need I say any more? It looks like we all already agree, regardless of gender opinion, that this is a terrible comic.
 

TKretts3

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Jul 20, 2010
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That comics looks as if it were both drawn and written by a 14-year old with no talent in either field. It comes to no surprise that a newspaper would choose not to run it.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Aug 30, 2011
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I don't know what anything publishes and there may be some merit to that it should have been accepted as being of the same calibre as something else, but it is a shitty comic, makes no argument and could be done in one panel.
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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Mahorfeus said:
Egh. Terrible artwork aside (which may or may not be intentional), I can see why this got rejected. It's not clever, it's not witty, and it tackles the issue with all the grace of an elephant. Never mind that it is an issue I really don't think even needs to be addressed in a periodical.
Exactly, if nothing else this simply does not stand out as having any merit of quality. But is this typical for their level of quality? If so, they really need to hire someone else. I'm sure some people would do a better job for free just to get their name out there.

Them taking a dump in the name of a good cause doesn't make it not a dump.
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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Azaraxzealot said:
First the topic...
Well it is flame-bait. No two ways of putting it. This was made with an obvious hatred for the "typical" MRA. It does indeed fall HARD into the strawman fallacy, which I don't approve of. I also don't approve of how long it went on just beating the horse they killed in the first two panels, and the whole "I peed myself." Bit was unnecessary. The one point it almost made was when one of the babies said "it makes me uncomfortable." See there could have been something there. Why does it make those that are so outraged by the existence of feminism so uncomfortable to see and hear the things women have to worry about that we don't?
From what I gather, it makes those men uncomfortable because it makes them feel stereotyped. Like it's an "all men are evil for being men" movement.

Now, I know that's not the point and you know that's not the point. But a lot of literature has been spewing out lately that flagrantly says all men are part of the problem (aka, evil) so I really can't blame them for thinking that.

If it makes them uncomfortable just because it's "icky" or whatever then that's a problem. But it's seldom so cut and dry as that.
 

Big_Boss_Mantis

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May 28, 2012
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Alleged_Alec said:
And yes, there are good points to be made on both sides of this debate, but the level-headed people are (as always) lost beneath waves of verbal diarrhoea by semi-sapient assclowns.
That's it. That's all of it. For everything, forever.

I feel I should buy you a beer, or something. It is conforting to feel less alone in the universe.

The problem is that people enter a discussion without fully researching the subject matter, and without acknowlodgement of the other side's (valid) points. That's a fatal mistake.
Sadly, people don't discuss something to learn what other people think. They enter a discussion to WIN.

One person reads something - another person's opinion, formed from that other person's life experience - and, finding it interesting, adopts it as their own.
So when this person engage in discussion with someone else that - simply put - spent more tought on the subject at hand than they have, the first person becomes vocal with the same ONE argument that they liked about their point, advocating loudly a bad argument and any intelligent discussion about ANYTHING can prosper.

And it all gets worse with delicate subject matrters: sexism, racism, politics, rape, pedophilia, religion, death, morality...
Each one of this subjects CAN be a valid topic of discussion. But, the more sensitive, the sooner people start screaming.

Sexism is a very complex social issue that deals with A TON of shit. Social roles, sexuality, monogamy, consent, physical and mental strenght...
Still, all we get is "angry feminist" vs "White Guy Defense Force", because they are the vocal ones.

And it is, unfortunatelly, tiresome as hell...
 

Asita

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I'm easily in the "that's just plain bad" camp. It comes off less as comedy, satire, or even commentary and more like childish taunting. Worse still, the joke could have worked if it had just applied a little nuance or build up to it (I think it would have worked far better, for instance, if the characters had started as adults but reverted to babies as their statements became more impassioned and juvenile). Forget politics or sensitivity, this by all rights should have been on the cutting room floor for quality control issues.


Capthca: mark it zero

You read my mind, captcha.
 

Dandres

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Apr 7, 2013
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I liked the comic, It might not be the most witty or expertly drawn but it is very true. There is a very vocal group of Men out there that when they feel threatened by women feel they must attack them verbally and physically. True men get abused as well but not to the extent that women do. Men are just as emotional as women, although they tent to be little more psychotic and physical about it.
 

Robot-Jesus

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Aug 29, 2011
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There is also a very vocal group of women who attack men whenever they feel slightly threatened by them. There was a feminists speaker who had a fire alarm pulled on them in Toronto because they want to talk about men's issues alongside womens issues, but that threatens some people worldview so extreme measures are justified.

It's important for both sides of extremism to be called out by more moderate parties, by ignoring them as the fringe you just make the other side trust you less.