Obama

[McNinja]

I hope obama does well, because as of now his policies with screw things up. Universal Healthcare? Really? Does he realized that "spreading the wealth" has not and will not work? or even that there is no real safe way to quickly exit Iraq?

And on the topic of the 9/11-http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
there is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons.

 

[cobra_ky]

Sunni and Shia? Really? Wow, I wonder how anyone could ever get that confused. I mean it's so much less confusing than the number of states in your country. I get it confused all the time, there are like 13 states in America right? Whether it was a Freudian slip or not, it still remains that if it had been say, Sarah Palin that said there were 57 states the Media would've been all over it.

i guess confusing Sunni and Shia is understandable, considering it's symptomatic of the Western ignorance of Islamic culture that got us into these foreign policy debacles in the first place.

The difference between Shia and Sunni is almost the same as the difference between Protestant and Catholic Christianity. One is for a central religious authority (Shia) and one is against(Sunni). People screw up the Christianities all the time and no one mocks them for their ignorance of Christian Culture.

and when was the last time a presidential candidate confused protestantism and catholicism?

the difference is the sunni and shia generally hate each other and take considerable offense at being confused with their mortal enemies.

 

[Brett Alex]

I hope obama does well, because as of now his policies with screw things up. Universal Healthcare? Really? Does he realized that "spreading the wealth" has not and will not work?

Universal Healthcare does not work eh? Thats a new one on me. Must mean pixies paid for my last trip to the doctor.

 

[Seydaman]

Wouldn't it be totally awesome if he sucked as president? Think how funny that would be.

i wouldn't be able 2 stop laughing
on topic: i see.... assassination, due to racism in the south.

 

[L33tsauce_Marty]

If I lived in america, I would have voted for obama

I would not be surprised if he did get assassinated though :/

All the good ones do.

It seems pretty hard to assassinate the president now though in america, always see billions of secret service

Well, look at the ones that hav ebeen assassinated, they didn't try that hard did they?

 

[Dhael]

Sunni and Shia? Really? Wow, I wonder how anyone could ever get that confused. I mean it's so much less confusing than the number of states in your country. I get it confused all the time, there are like 13 states in America right? Whether it was a Freudian slip or not, it still remains that if it had been say, Sarah Palin that said there were 57 states the Media would've been all over it.

i guess confusing Sunni and Shia is understandable, considering it's symptomatic of the Western ignorance of Islamic culture that got us into these foreign policy debacles in the first place.

The difference between Shia and Sunni is almost the same as the difference between Protestant and Catholic Christianity. One is for a central religious authority (Shia) and one is against(Sunni). People screw up the Christianities all the time and no one mocks them for their ignorance of Christian Culture.

and when was the last time a presidential candidate confused protestantism and catholicism?

the difference is the sunni and shia generally hate each other and take considerable offense at being confused with their mortal enemies.

Point 1: That's actually pretty easy. Name anytime religion has entered into political debate, and I'll show you a candidate and/or sitting president who can't keep their facts straight about which version they are talking about. Hell, anytime one of those fundamentalist brimstoners on TV opens his damn mouth it usually results in this

Point 2: Most Catholics tend to get extremely annoyed when people say people like Falwell speak for them. And I dare you to tell a Protestant that the Pope speaks for him. Granted Catholics and Protestants have largely gotten over the whole try and kill each other thing. The problem with the two Islamic groups is that they both view the other as heretics and apostates. And Islam has an extremely dim and hostile view of both.

 

[captain awesome 12]

Yes, because a man with his incredible amount of experience is just what we need in the economic crisis. Yes, because a man taught by Communists is the right choice in a Capitalist based society. Yes, because a man that cannot think for himself, that must be in front of a TelePrompTer at all times has the ingenuity, intelligence and ability to lead us. Yes, because a man that thinks there are 57 states is the exact role model for young people. Yes, because the "change we need" is the reinstitution of the cabinet and policies of the Clinton Era. Yes, because a man that doesn't even realize that he's the most powerful man in the world is holding the keys to our future. Yes, because since his campaign was so good he absolutely cannot fail. Yes, because a man with such little grip upon world issues is the right man for the job. I could keep going, but I don't feel the need to. Wait I've got another more. Yes, the Community Organizer from Chicago with connections to terrorists and slum crime lords, that has less time in the Senate that I do with playing Halo 3 is a much better choice than the decorated war hero whose faced the darkest of times and come through with honor and humility, and who has spent an incredible amount of time serving this country. A man who's only criticisms were that he was "old" "just like Bush" (which isn't true at all, merely left wing propaganda) and "can't use a computer" (because the injuries sustained during the five years he spent in hell in a Vietnamese prison camp with his fellow men have rendered him unable to use a keyboard.)
I hope that Obama is the greatest president ever, but I know he won't be. His policies have been proven time and time again to be failures, what policies he has ever expressed. He lacks the understanding, the humility, the experience, the courage, the temperance, the morality, the honesty, and the character to succeed. While I believe that Obama may very well be a "smart" man, a good father, and a charismatic speaker (when he's been told what to say) he was not the right man for this office.

Don't get me started on Socialized Medicine. When you break down the people that don't have healthcare very few actually cannot afford it. A 1/5 or so are illegal immigrants, nearly half are those who willfully refuse it because of a feeling of "immortality" due to young age. Another part of the demographic are people that are so incredibly wealthy they don't need it. And if people can't afford it but still need an operation or are sick they do not have to pay. Why do you think so many Canadians come to the U.S. to have surgery? Socialized healthcare adds a massive amount of patients at one time, causing overcrowding, and long waiting lines. Substandard hospitals, poorly equipped facilities, and doctors that are underpaid spawn out of it. By the way, the massive tax increase that comes along with all of this means it isn't fee anyway, you just get around 26 billion extra in money paid to the government.

Obama isn't the solution. Bush strengthened our defense, but did little on the home front because of his massive spending. However, Obama's policies are no different, the first thing he wants is a trillion dollar bailout! There are a number of ways to accomplish this. One, print more money, inflation rises. Two, tax more, you voted for this guy people. Three, go farther in debt to ourselves. I'm sorry, but I cannot put faith in this man.

Sources: http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv3n1.pdf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

Easy on the Cool Aid Captain. Next time you write something read it before you post it. Bush Stregthened your defenses??? For god's sake he waged wars with non existent enemies and streched thn your troops. You need one more battlefield for your warmachine to collapse.

About the tax thing you mentioned. I wont speak about your 13 trillion external debt that you as a country have thanks to Bush neither for the gifts of 20 billion Dollars in military equipment you give to Israel every Year.

And about the age thing you mentioned, Your country needs a president young enough that wont die of old age during his first term and will also be able to understand the young people of your country cause their the future.

Also it is costume to wait for the man to die before you bury him. but history showed us that you are ok to have a corpse controlled by FED run your country.

By strengthened our defenses I meant that despite numerous terrorist attacks on other countries after 911 the United States was not hit again. If you think it wasn't because terrorists didn't try you've got to be crazy, it's common sense they'd want to try and launch more strikes. I do believe that it's because of the Patriot Act that many attacks were stopped, whether small scale or large scale. Make all the accusations you want about "civil rights violations" but really, it worked. If you bothered to read my post you'd have noticed that I criticized Bush's massive spending, but a man that wants to come in and spend even more won't improve this.

In all honesty, is it the young people of this country that need to be understood, or the rest of the world and the country in which he will run? Personally, as a young person I am drawn to the war hero/patriot/servant of his country over the marijuana-smoking, community organizer that abstained from voting 44% of the time. McCain is in no way feebleminded, and in no way close to death, so I highly doubt that he'd die in the next four years.

I also take extreme offense to be called a Cool-Aid drinker. I think Cool-Aid is a delicious beverage that all people should enjoy. On a more serious note, the people who voted for a man who ran around yelling "Change! Change! Change!" drink far more Cool-Aid than me.

WHAT? You support the patriot Act? are you blind? they turned you from a free nation to an oligarchy overnight with this piece of toilet paper. Oh and if you still believe that 9/11 wasnt funded by CIA and that the planes wherent decoys to hide they remote demolitions of the two towers i have one think two say. WAKE UP. open your eyes. Search for your self. And another think. If you are so convinced that 9/11 attacks was the job of osama bin laden and his lot why is it that in the OFFICIAL site of F.B.I with the mst wanted men in the world under Osama profile it says nothing about the 9/11 attacks? By the way is better to yell CHANGE all the time than declare do go to war with Iran when you get elected. That s right i am talking about your buddy Mccain. Its not your fault. i Presume you live in the states thats why you have so few intelligence on the matter of who is doing what in your country. Dont be offended by my post's i am Greek and we used to speak the truth. Or lie damn well about it. unlike your current administration.
And on a humorous note i dont know what Cool-aid tastes like. Its just the phrase is spot-on to your previously written misguided beliefs.

My father watched from across the Hudson river through binoculars as those planes hit the towers. He was there, he saw them. I was recently listening to a man who was inside the fucking tower when the plane hit the floor below him; he looked out the window and saw it flying right at him. His escape was a miracle that would take too long to explain in detail. Don't you dare try and force conspiracy theories down my throat when I know people that died that day. Don't you dare try and insult my intelligence and tell me that the phone calls from people on those flights to their loved ones were fake. Stop with your idiotic conspiracy theories, they don't work, I don't believe them, you aren't doing yourself any good believing them. McCain never stated that he was going to go to war with Iran, where's your source by the way? Why don't you open up your own eyes and stop trying to make excuses for people who's very beliefs center on killing you. Stop trying to act intelligent by inventing these theories, you aren't cool because you think it was an elaborate plot to go to war for some unknown reason because George Bush must be bad. Or whatever it is you believe.
As for the Patriot Act, I have no problem with my telephone calls being tapped if I know it will keep me safe. I have no problem with proving my citizenship or having to wait in line at a security checkpoint if it means the freedoms I enjoy will be preserved. Since you're a foreigner, why do you care about what happens in this country? Why do you care what laws or acts are passed? Why do you care if we go to war with a genocidal, maniacal dictator? I find it funny that you're Greek, since you're country has so much history based on going to war in protection of the homeland. I also find it incredibly hard to believe that despite the threats, statements, acts of violence, killings, suicide bombings, and murders that radical Muslim extremists have committed you still jump in line to defend them and condemn the United States for having the balls to stand up for itself. Please, going by your logic if Osama Bin Laden was innocent why would he be one of the most wanted men in the first place? That's right, you don't live in the States, so you wouldn't have been here when every paper held the "Wanted for the mass murder of U.S. citizens" headlines. Believe what you want, that's your right, and the right of every person, except for those who until most recently were freed from being under the heel of a mass murderer. They were freed by the efforts of American and British soldiers, one of which was my brother, the only people who seem to give a shit about this world any more.
Finally, what deciding force in Hell makes my beliefs misguided? You haven't established anything to prove the contrary, all you've done is spout off conspiracy theories with absolutely no grounding in fact. Even more, you're from another country, and thus can only get information from the ultra-opinionated internet or your own biased new services. You sir, are part of the conspiracy theory Cool Aid drinkers club. Now I'm not offended by the blatant idiocy here, but come one, you do not have the authority or knowledge to call me misinformed, misguided, or an unintelligent just because I'm American. I could say the same thing about you.

O god. you are like a christmass delight. i can unwrapp you and chew all day long. and then spit you back out cause you taste rot. The situation in middle east is worse since your country decided to attack a second time. I dont blame the soldiers, i instead salute them for their courage but they are mere pawns of their goverment. You still believe that you invaded iraq to find the weapons of mass distraction. Conspiracy theories. i dont know if you dress as Mulder or Scully but there are no conspiracy theories unless you want them to be in order to fortify your goverments stupid , wrong and immoral decisions over almost everything that mattered for the past 8 years. Untill you open a book or watch something else than FOX news you wont be able to understand anything else. I am not trying to change your thinking-only god and lobotomy can do that- but i only suggest that there is a different story here. And if you are intersted in something different check out Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist adendum. Also check 9/11 a ground zero investigation. I f you dont belive me atleast believe all the scientists and the nobel prize winner that say 9/11 was a con. Oh and the witnesses that came forth and gave statements.
If you dont believe me believe what you see with your own eyes. And i am not trying to defile the memories of those lost in the towers and planes they were victims of a dirty war that your goverment had played a bigger part than you think.

P.S Greek history is full of wars because nine out of ten times we had an actual real enemy with real army invading us. And i as many others in the world outsde U.S.A care for what is happening in your country because you are the leaders of the western hemisphere. And it saddens me to see how you have fallen from a beacon of hope and freedom to your current state.

Gentlemen it was a very interesting conversation which i am glad it took place.

Yes, because a man with his incredible amount of experience is just what we need in the economic crisis. Yes, because a man taught by Communists is the right choice in a Capitalist based society. Yes, because a man that cannot think for himself, that must be in front of a TelePrompTer at all times has the ingenuity, intelligence and ability to lead us. Yes, because a man that thinks there are 57 states is the exact role model for young people. Yes, because the "change we need" is the reinstitution of the cabinet and policies of the Clinton Era. Yes, because a man that doesn't even realize that he's the most powerful man in the world is holding the keys to our future. Yes, because since his campaign was so good he absolutely cannot fail. Yes, because a man with such little grip upon world issues is the right man for the job. I could keep going, but I don't feel the need to. Wait I've got another more. Yes, the Community Organizer from Chicago with connections to terrorists and slum crime lords, that has less time in the Senate that I do with playing Halo 3 is a much better choice than the decorated war hero whose faced the darkest of times and come through with honor and humility, and who has spent an incredible amount of time serving this country. A man who's only criticisms were that he was "old" "just like Bush" (which isn't true at all, merely left wing propaganda) and "can't use a computer" (because the injuries sustained during the five years he spent in hell in a Vietnamese prison camp with his fellow men have rendered him unable to use a keyboard.)
I hope that Obama is the greatest president ever, but I know he won't be. His policies have been proven time and time again to be failures, what policies he has ever expressed. He lacks the understanding, the humility, the experience, the courage, the temperance, the morality, the honesty, and the character to succeed. While I believe that Obama may very well be a "smart" man, a good father, and a charismatic speaker (when he's been told what to say) he was not the right man for this office.

Don't get me started on Socialized Medicine. When you break down the people that don't have healthcare very few actually cannot afford it. A 1/5 or so are illegal immigrants, nearly half are those who willfully refuse it because of a feeling of "immortality" due to young age. Another part of the demographic are people that are so incredibly wealthy they don't need it. And if people can't afford it but still need an operation or are sick they do not have to pay. Why do you think so many Canadians come to the U.S. to have surgery? Socialized healthcare adds a massive amount of patients at one time, causing overcrowding, and long waiting lines. Substandard hospitals, poorly equipped facilities, and doctors that are underpaid spawn out of it. By the way, the massive tax increase that comes along with all of this means it isn't fee anyway, you just get around 26 billion extra in money paid to the government.

Obama isn't the solution. Bush strengthened our defense, but did little on the home front because of his massive spending. However, Obama's policies are no different, the first thing he wants is a trillion dollar bailout! There are a number of ways to accomplish this. One, print more money, inflation rises. Two, tax more, you voted for this guy people. Three, go farther in debt to ourselves. I'm sorry, but I cannot put faith in this man.

Sources: http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv3n1.pdf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

Easy on the Cool Aid Captain. Next time you write something read it before you post it. Bush Stregthened your defenses??? For god's sake he waged wars with non existent enemies and streched thn your troops. You need one more battlefield for your warmachine to collapse.

About the tax thing you mentioned. I wont speak about your 13 trillion external debt that you as a country have thanks to Bush neither for the gifts of 20 billion Dollars in military equipment you give to Israel every Year.

And about the age thing you mentioned, Your country needs a president young enough that wont die of old age during his first term and will also be able to understand the young people of your country cause their the future.

Also it is costume to wait for the man to die before you bury him. but history showed us that you are ok to have a corpse controlled by FED run your country.

By strengthened our defenses I meant that despite numerous terrorist attacks on other countries after 911 the United States was not hit again. If you think it wasn't because terrorists didn't try you've got to be crazy, it's common sense they'd want to try and launch more strikes. I do believe that it's because of the Patriot Act that many attacks were stopped, whether small scale or large scale. Make all the accusations you want about "civil rights violations" but really, it worked. If you bothered to read my post you'd have noticed that I criticized Bush's massive spending, but a man that wants to come in and spend even more won't improve this.

In all honesty, is it the young people of this country that need to be understood, or the rest of the world and the country in which he will run? Personally, as a young person I am drawn to the war hero/patriot/servant of his country over the marijuana-smoking, community organizer that abstained from voting 44% of the time. McCain is in no way feebleminded, and in no way close to death, so I highly doubt that he'd die in the next four years.

I also take extreme offense to be called a Cool-Aid drinker. I think Cool-Aid is a delicious beverage that all people should enjoy. On a more serious note, the people who voted for a man who ran around yelling "Change! Change! Change!" drink far more Cool-Aid than me.

WHAT? You support the patriot Act? are you blind? they turned you from a free nation to an oligarchy overnight with this piece of toilet paper. Oh and if you still believe that 9/11 wasnt funded by CIA and that the planes wherent decoys to hide they remote demolitions of the two towers i have one think two say. WAKE UP. open your eyes. Search for your self. And another think. If you are so convinced that 9/11 attacks was the job of osama bin laden and his lot why is it that in the OFFICIAL site of F.B.I with the mst wanted men in the world under Osama profile it says nothing about the 9/11 attacks? By the way is better to yell CHANGE all the time than declare do go to war with Iran when you get elected. That s right i am talking about your buddy Mccain. Its not your fault. i Presume you live in the states thats why you have so few intelligence on the matter of who is doing what in your country. Dont be offended by my post's i am Greek and we used to speak the truth. Or lie damn well about it. unlike your current administration.
And on a humorous note i dont know what Cool-aid tastes like. Its just the phrase is spot-on to your previously written misguided beliefs.

I'm sorry but I've had enough. I'm sick of you foreigners thinking you know anything at all about us.

Your a moron plain and simple.

Bush possibly one of the greatest presidents ever kept this country safe from evil. In the future you morons will realize that he was one of biggest defenders of our country, one of the biggest patriots. I am so greatful he was elected when he was, because if Gore would have won I doubt he could have led us through. Could he have done things better? Yes. Was he wrong about Iraq? Yes, but either way good came out of it. A country and millions were freed from the very evil we are trying to abolish. My father was in the air on a plane in the new york area when 9/11 happend. I thought he had died. You dont know the pain and suffering that this country has gone through, the sacrifies we have made, that we still make. To say that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were orchestrated by our own government just shows you are and again are a MORON. Fucking Osama ADMITTED he had planned the attacks. Go back into your hole and never speak again you insensitive prick.

I'm gonna agree with the other guy here, George Bush wasn't that great, in fact he became the laughing stock of the world, and people viewed America as a joke. Does that say great leader to you? You didn't free Iraq you just attacked it and created a generation willing to become suicide bombers. Also the 9/11 thing was a bad thing but it wasn't this great world changing event really, it just showed America that it wasn't invincible. i think Obama will hopefully show the rest of the world that Americas not just a big joke but is actually a country that can help the world

Hmm let me see, Oh yes you are a foreigner too. Again you dont know SHIT. Because Bush and our brave soldiers, EVEN YOUR own country men, thousands of terrorist are dead. Dozens if not hundreds of attacks have been thwarted. There are too many fucking pussies in this world, whenever a country goes to war, they all bash them trying to dictate their foreign policies. Bush wouldnt let you foreigners dictate us.

Yeah and Fat chance at Obama trying to change really anything. The only thing he can probably change is how many more innocent people are open to terrorist attacks.

Gentlemen it was a very pleasant conversation which i am glad i did in this forum which guarantees i could speak with intelligent people. thank you very much for unfolding your ideals and thoughts to me a humble stranger and stay true to your selfs. Have a goodnight you and take care. Dont see my withdrawal us a sign of weakness but as a sign of fullfilment. thank you again

Go have your country get attacked, then come back here trying to preach your garbage.

Thank you Darkside and Untamed for making me not feel alone in my opinion. I guarantee that if the Parthenon or some other landmark in Greece was attacked Frater would feel a lot differently. Especially if he happened to lose friends in it. Unfortunately I cannot respond to his last reply because he "withdrew" from this conversation. I do thank you for not being pricks.

 

[DickInPudding]

I see a bright future for Obama.

Other then the fact the idea of him being Assassinated crosses my mind a lot.
I really wouldn't be surprised. But let's hope he doesn't shall we?

 

[cobra_ky]

Sunni and Shia? Really? Wow, I wonder how anyone could ever get that confused. I mean it's so much less confusing than the number of states in your country. I get it confused all the time, there are like 13 states in America right? Whether it was a Freudian slip or not, it still remains that if it had been say, Sarah Palin that said there were 57 states the Media would've been all over it.

i guess confusing Sunni and Shia is understandable, considering it's symptomatic of the Western ignorance of Islamic culture that got us into these foreign policy debacles in the first place.

The difference between Shia and Sunni is almost the same as the difference between Protestant and Catholic Christianity. One is for a central religious authority (Shia) and one is against(Sunni). People screw up the Christianities all the time and no one mocks them for their ignorance of Christian Culture.

and when was the last time a presidential candidate confused protestantism and catholicism?

the difference is the sunni and shia generally hate each other and take considerable offense at being confused with their mortal enemies.

Point 1: That's actually pretty easy. Name anytime religion has entered into political debate, and I'll show you a candidate and/or sitting president who can't keep their facts straight about which version they are talking about. Hell, anytime one of those fundamentalist brimstoners on TV opens his damn mouth it usually results in this

Point 2: Most Catholics tend to get extremely annoyed when people say people like Falwell speak for them. And I dare you to tell a Protestant that the Pope speaks for him. Granted Catholics and Protestants have largely gotten over the whole try and kill each other thing. The problem with the two Islamic groups is that they both view the other as heretics and apostates. And Islam has an extremely dim and hostile view of both.

The point is that when the muslim world sees a western politician confuse the two fundamentally different sects of their religion, the reaction is a lot more serious and detrimental to our foreign policy.

 

[DrHobo]

So duPont, in order to maintain a consistently high profit margin, laid off your father... and that is the government's fault how?

Large corporations should be taxed heavily, especially those that are benefiting from years and years of tax payer funded infrastructure.

I'm not sure where these mentality of 'large corporations rule' comes from. Large corporations got that way by feasting on the ideas and methods of smaller corporations and gorging themselves until they become so bloated and unstable that they eventually collapse, lay of 15% of their employee's and blame the govt.

In short Govt rules... small corps and individuals rules... big corps fail.

I'm not quite sure where you got the idea that if gov't rules, then individuals rule. That isn't the case. Large government has never led to success of individuals or small corporations. The more government interference in business; the more difficult it is to run a business. The problem with huge tax rates on large corporations is that, once they're taxed out of business, who's left to tax? The smaller corps and, when they're gone, the individuals. High taxes are never the answer to fiscal problems. Lowering taxes is one of the answers to beginning and sustaining financial recovery. Eliminating unnecessary and unneeded government programs is another. Encouraging people to learn how to manage their money responsibly is another.

I'll say this again. There is nothing wrong with a business making money or the owners of the business keeping wealth accrued from running a successful business. The point of starting and running a business is to make money. Government receives more money when it lowers taxes because more taxes are paid. Let me say that again. Government receives more money when it lowers taxes because more taxes are paid.

When taxes are high, businesses do the only logical thing to keep afloat. They raise prices on their products and cut labor force to maintain a workable profit margin. No, it's not good for the employees, but the owners have to do something to attempt to stay afloat. So, consumers have to pay more for products that they once could afford. They cut back their spending to items of necessity instead of items of luxury. This means that government makes less money in taxes because less is being spent. The natural inclination of many in government who have forgotten basic economics is to raise taxes so that they can get the money flow back up to where they want it to be. So, prices are raised again, more are laid off, and taxes go up again until a financial failure happens that is much worse than the simple one we're facing is.

When taxes are low, supply and demand determine more of the price of a product than tax rates do. When a person has more of their income to spend, they spend more of their income. The same is true of businesses. If a business is only paying 20-30% of it's income in taxes, it has more money to invest in expansion, hiring new employees, affording better health care programs than the government can supply, and paying its employees more. If it's paying 70%+, a business owner WILL cut those back. The owner may not like it or want to do it, but he will to survive. When businesses spend more of their money, consumers spend more of theirs.

Are there bad practices? Sure. When bad practices happen, then the irresponsible party will pay the price. Again, that's part of basic economics. If it's bad spending practices on the part of the consumer, then he or she will go bankrupt. If it's bad spending practices on the part of the business, then the business goes bankrupt. A bad government practice is throwing away money on irresponsible businesses or individuals. Do it too often and, no matter how much it taxes companies with good practices, it will soon run out of money.

To the original topic, I'd like to be pleasantly surprised by Obama. But, he's already having to backpedal on a lot of his campaign ideas by offering tax cuts instead of tax hikes. There is no way he can raise taxes the way he was declaring he would on the campaign trail and be successful. We'll see in 6 months time how successful he is. Then let's comment on him.

You should probably actually read posts before posting textbook walls of irrelevant information

Here's an example

A country spends 400 million dollars of tax payer money over 40 years setting up telecommunications infrastructure. After 40 years the govt privatizes its interests and sells the entire infrastructure to a private company at 80 million. This company now goes on to profit from tax payer funded infrastructure for the rest of it's existence. They receive numerous tax benefits as well because they are flying under the 'industry leader' banner and thereby demand tax break renumeration for every new project they undertake

essentially a very small percentage of major shareholders, possibly foreign, now profit from the general populace's 40 years of tax paying.

I think your entire argument is based on some fallacy that companies exist in a vacuum and that they are perfectly created from the blood, sweat and tears of the owner/staff, but the reality is that a lot of large corps simply pillage the tax built and therefore PUBLICLY FUNDED infrastructure of the general population. Once the pillaging is complete they pressure the govt to reduce their taxation. The govt often has no choice as they wield very little power having privatised all the publicly funded infrastructure that existed now wields very little power

A corporation's main impetus is to continually maximize profits. Not 'produce a good product' or 'maintain a steady profit margin'. In that way corporations are like religions, a non tangible entity built, maintained, and worshiped on the manipulation and commitment of people through a hierarchical structure. What is a company man if not a monk of the order.

What is a consumer mac addict if not a disciple of zealotry, worshiping at the altar of his true religion.



TLR - You're still stuck in the matrix.

 

[Volothos]

He'll probably be really successful but there may be 1 event that will tarnish his image.

 

[Knight Templar]

Remember kids, politics always do the oposit of what is said: I.E Animal rights don't give animal rights but they just take away HUMAN rights, Human rights movements instead of giving people rights they take away the right to toture in inhumane ways, Liberal parties are the most conservative parties

I don't know where you are geting your information but it seems a little messed up. Thought you are right about labor (left wing) doing stupid things that are against their support base.

 

[Anomynous 167]

Obama is not black, he is milk chocolate brown

Cutting their taxes has done nothing except encourage them to spend the money on more bonuses for their executives and a few more Leer jets.

Yes and remember, they have to PAY for the Leer jets, and do you know what happens to your money after you purchase something?

 

[cobra_ky]

The military, while badass, still hasn't recovered from what Clinton did to it. Before Clinton, 2.5 was the gold standard. To be able to able fight two full scale wars or one large world war-esque multi-front war without needing to pull troops from peacekeeping operations.

Now, we had to use the friggin National Guard to get enough troop capacity to beat up on two half-broken nations. That's where the surplus came from.

And yet what did Bush do upon taking office? he cut taxes and sent the military into two wars. shouldn't he have noticed the state of the military? why didn't he do anything to restore it?

Woah woah woah there captain awesome. The campaign is over. Obama won. The fight was well fought but you can get off your soap box and go home now.

So, Bush can be bashed for almost his entire term? But Obama, woah woah woah. No "soap box" and go home now. Obama should and will get the exact same scrutiny. He is an elected official just the same. And will be under the very same microscope (not by the media, of course).

sure, go ahead and bash Obama his entire term. i'd like to point out his term hasn't started yet, however.

Yes and remember, they have to PAY for the Leer jets, and do you know what happens to your money after you purchase something?

the same thing that happens when the poor pay for food and health care. which would you say is more important?

 

[Dhael]

The military, while badass, still hasn't recovered from what Clinton did to it. Before Clinton, 2.5 was the gold standard. To be able to able fight two full scale wars or one large world war-esque multi-front war without needing to pull troops from peacekeeping operations.

Now, we had to use the friggin National Guard to get enough troop capacity to beat up on two half-broken nations. That's where the surplus came from.

And yet what did Bush do upon taking office? he cut taxes and sent the military into two wars. shouldn't he have noticed the state of the military? why didn't he do anything to restore it?

The tax issue is one of those strange issues. Cutting tax actually rarely has major effect on government income in a good economy. He cut taxes to kill off the recession we were heading into after 9/11 and it actually had almost no effect on the amount of money the government was taking in, because the boom afterwards covered the losses because more money was moving, so more transactions were being taxed. Personally I think he SHOULD have let those tax cuts lapse when they expired, as that probably would put some serious brakes on the economy to the point that the credit bubble bursting wouldn't have been quite as bad.

He dramatically increased the military's budget, and came remarkable close to restoring it's budget at least to pre-Clinton levels and as crappy as the quote is, Rumsfeld was right. "You go to war with the army you have not the one you want." That's where that whole armour issue came from. The military had the money, but no longer had the capacity to produce all that armour at once and someone dropped the ball on spotting that logistical hitch. So when the IED's started appearing, the military scrambled for armour upgrades only to find they were sorely lacking in capacity and took time to rebuild that capacity.

The military did adjust after Clinton's "peace dividend" cuts. And stomping Iraq was like Kevin Nash beating up a 5th grader. The problem was that Bush gave little thought to the follow-up in both countries and that is where the shortfall of the military started to become an issue.

You seem to think I'm trying to canonize Bush. I'm not. He's made a lot of mistakes, some of them big, and NOBODY could've predict Katrina and Irene and the damage they would do. Those two hurricane butt-fucked America in a big way. Contrary to most people seem to think, those two Hurricanes actually racked up more debt then BOTH wars combined. You don't level, and I mean LEVEL, two major cities and not rack up a huge debt.

What I'm saying is that Bush is at best a mere above average president who got serious fucked hard-core. His policy was actually pretty good in the short-term, but his administration had serious issues when it came to long-term planning. If he had secured the cities in Iraq first rather than play good neighbor and planting trees, he could have killed the insurgence in it's infancy and Iraq would have gone much better. Same in Afghanistan. We were actually popular in both countries after the initial invasion, but squandered it when we failed to create an effective power centre and left a vacuum which the insurgents filled.

Katrina was a nightmare that was a mix of mishandling on the federal level and corrupt obstructionism on the local level. Irene went better because Bush actually pulled rank to get FEMA into place.

One of the reason i honestly believe it when people say Bush will be redeemed by history is due to the fact that Bush, mediocre as he was, had fuck-ton of shit dropped in his lap over the course of eight years and did manage to pull the country through in fairly good condition.

 

[Hallow'sEve]

Seeing how people fawn to his name and and submit to his charasmitic personalility, he is under my list as possible Anti-Christs. The world's in the shitter (or at least the US's is) and his term ends in 2012.

On a less crazy, parinoid note. I don't really care, I'm pretty apathetic about politics. I'm sure he'll screw up somewhere, we all do.

 

[Shivari]

Just a random quip here; I found Obama's little train ride to be extremely pretentious, as well as the constant attempts of both him and everyone else to compare him to Lincoln.

 

[Hallow'sEve]

Why is Obama such a big deal? It can't really be because he's black right? The fact that saying that we have a black president is supposed to overthrow racist thoughts in the nation only promotes them by acknowledging their existence. Can someone tell me why he's such a big deal?

 

[GreenDevilJF]

All I have gathered is that he is the first black president of america, I once saw an hour long special about him on TV where the people talking said that they didn't just vote for him because he was black. They proceeded to go on about how he was black for the rest of the special.