Lost? Nothing. Instead we will have gained yet another precedent for game devs to alter products to fit a sociopolitical party line - a line that changes based on who's screaming the loudest at the moment. It opens the door to all sorts of shit.Scars Unseen said:I'm not sure why I just read 5 pages and change of this shit. It's the same people saying the same things as in every other similarly themed thread. I can't really bring myself to care what happens either way, honestly. On the one hand, I don't understand the outrage over a poorly written poem that can only be found by trudging through a pointless easter egg. On the other hand, it's a poorly written poem that can only be found by trudging through a pointless easter egg, so what have we really lost if Obsidian removes it?
So if you are about to have sex with someone and they turn out not to have the genitals you had previously presumed you're just supposed to go "Yup fine by me," and carry on despite them not being attracted to them?MarsAtlas said:This one, the world where we both exist.Creslin321 said:In what universe is this transphobic?
But you're not talking about what it's like to be transgender. You're telling us what straight men think. You're saying that straight men believe transsexual people are going out there trying to trick them into having sex with us?MarsAtlas said:Hey, maybe consider that transgender people have a better idea of what being trans is like than somebody who isn't. You know, maybe we're more aware of the prevalance of transphobia than you are, seeing as we're the targets of it, and thus unable to avoid, because these justifications are being used everyday to try to legislate discrimination towards us.
This would make an excellent bumper sticker.Saetha said:In other words - leave the bitching to the professionals, please.
Tell that to Chris Wilson.MarsAtlas said:Well because there's no obligation to do so.
I suggest you watch the video below on why some of these arguments don't hold upFirstNameLastName said:So you understand that physical harm isn't the only type of harm there is? Good. Would it not be safe to assume that many people would feel violated from finding out they slept with someone who used to be the same sex as they are? If this isn't a widespread feeling, then why would there be so many violent reactions to it?
Yes there is, if you're a woman that truly cares about the person you are becoming intimate with, you have an obligation to be honest.MarsAtlas said:Well because there's no obligation to do so.
Actually the concept of "rape via deception" is becoming increasingly popular among progressives. Such laws have been considered in California. Of course all are made with a male perpetrator in mind, since we all know men can't be raped by women.Skatologist said:The absolute closest thing to a form of violation for sleeping with a trans person is sex by deception or attempting to have sex with someone under the pretenses that they think they're having sex with someone else entirely. Most popular example can be seen first of the Revenge of the Nerds films and is often considered an actual sexual offense nowadays. But again, as the video demonstrates, say I had a prejudice against a certain grouping of people(a certain race for example) and desired not to have any relations with them, had sex with a woman from said group but realized they were a member of such a group after the fact. Is she still culpable for not telling me she's part of that group before sex or is it still placed more on me for not asking?
Well, that's the whole issue here, isn't it? You think it's "nothing". People with different backgrounds and lives disagree. Honestly, this doesn't affect me in the slightest. I'm not offended by this particular thing. Some people are. If those some people wish to pursue this issue and try to tell others that it perhaps isn't "nothing" to them, I'll listen, validate their opinion, wish them good luck in their effort to make things better and maybe try to help by writing stupid posts on the internet late at night.ZiggyE said:If you get offended over nothing then perhaps you deserve to feel offended. Why should I apologise when I've done nothing wrong except say something that someone didn't like. That's their problem, not mine. It's different if you legitimately say something hateful, but if you're saying something that any reasonable person would barely consider an issue that someone somewhere has misinterpreted, then you're not responsible, you shouldn't feel guilty and you sure as hell shouldn't apologise. Which is just what this poem is, since it may not even have been referring to anyone transgender.Beliyal said:snip
Well, I agree here to an extent. But I also leave the final decision to the developer. If they want to change because they think it's very important, that's their decision. It's their decision also if they don't.LostGryphon said:Why is it one or the other?Beliyal said:snip
Why can't they simply say, "Oops, I apologize, I didn't know this might be a problem," and have that be the end of it, without changes being made to mollify the complainers.
My being offended by someone or something's actions is not grounds for me to demand they cease said actions, nor does it automatically make their actions wrong/something to be apologized for. I've been offended by plenty of things in my life, but to ask that they be done away with or curtailed because of the slight to my sensibilities is just...dumb.
I guess all those progressives changing laws in which it was impossible for men to be raped by the laws' definition previously in favor of replacing them with laws that easily allow for men to report rape just don't exist. They don't exist.ZiggyE said:Actually the concept of "rape via deception" is becoming increasingly popular among progressives. Such laws have been considered in California. Of course all are made with a male perpetrator in mind, since we all know men can't be raped by women.
https://verdict.justia.com/2013/05/01/rape-by-deception-rape-by-impersonation-and-a-new-california-bill
There is a great deal of difference between an artist changing his work to fit expectations and what's going on here. Since this bit of poetic nonsense wasn't written by Obsidian - or possibly even previewed by anyone in that was part of the creative process - removing it wouldn't compromise their creative vision. Looking at Sawyer's tweet, it likely doesn't even conform to it in the first place and just ended up going beneath the radar. Which is why I can't really get worked up over it.kael013 said:Lost? Nothing. Instead we will have gained yet another precedent for game devs to alter products to fit a sociopolitical party line - a line that changes based on who's screaming the loudest at the moment. It opens the door to all sorts of shit.Scars Unseen said:I'm not sure why I just read 5 pages and change of this shit. It's the same people saying the same things as in every other similarly themed thread. I can't really bring myself to care what happens either way, honestly. On the one hand, I don't understand the outrage over a poorly written poem that can only be found by trudging through a pointless easter egg. On the other hand, it's a poorly written poem that can only be found by trudging through a pointless easter egg, so what have we really lost if Obsidian removes it?
...You're lucky, ya know? I wish I could muster up the level of "meh" you have. But I'm an aspiring artist and this shit actually is making me seriously reconsider ever making a piece of art. I mean if my artwork offends people and they yell and harass me into changing it - bastardizing and violating it - why should I make it in the first place? I'd rather have it sit in my head and die with me - unchanged, pure.
Believe it or not, I wasn't arguing with you. I was merely contributing to the discussion. I don't believe trans people should be obligated and I think rape by deception is a stupid concept.Skatologist said:Like how you also ignored to respond to that second half of my post and probably didn't see that video too. Obviously the apex of arguing in good faith.
Maybe they can do so in my country one day, since they seem awfully silent on the matter.I guess all those progressives changing laws in which it was impossible for men to be raped by the laws' definition previously in favor of replacing them with laws that easily allow for men to report rape just don't exist. They don't exist.
This is difficult to listen to. I'm not sure if its the tone or the inflection, but it's irksome and comes off as condescending.Skatologist said:I suggest you watch the video below on why some of these arguments don't hold upFirstNameLastName said:So you understand that physical harm isn't the only type of harm there is? Good. Would it not be safe to assume that many people would feel violated from finding out they slept with someone who used to be the same sex as they are? If this isn't a widespread feeling, then why would there be so many violent reactions to it?
Bit of a cop out answer, but...race and sex aren't the same thing, especially in terms of...well...sex.The absolute closest thing to a form of violation for sleeping with a trans person is sex by deception or attempting to have sex with someone under the pretenses that they think they're having sex with someone else entirely. Most popular example can be seen first of the Revenge of the Nerds films and is often considered an actual sexual offense nowadays. But again, as the video demonstrates, say I had a prejudice against a certain grouping of people(a certain race for example) and desired not to have any relations with them, had sex with a woman from said group but realized they were a member of such a group after the fact. Is she still culpable for not telling me she's part of that group before sex or is it still placed more on me for not asking?
When it comes to disclosure the onus is on those with something to disclose, morally and lawfully without disclosure a transexual person is crossing the line.MarsAtlas said:Yes, well then perhaps people who think that they might be traumatized by a sexual encounter with a trans person should be upfront with potential partners about it. Communication is key to a good relationship.