Obsidian Does it Again

[ChupathingyX]

It's okay to like the others better, just don't do it because you think they are realistic.

I don't prefer the others because they're more realistic, I prefer them because they explain things better, give you more background lore and just generally give you more options. Being forced to help the Knights-in-shining-armour BoS was a dumb move as they were never a major faction. Also I'm not saying radiation mutation and FEV is realistic, just that it isn't a "do-anything" tool. There is a limit.

Also remember the Fallout series is based in a 1940/50's world, so things like giant ants, mutants and ghouls are what people thought would happen and was featured in movies, that's why they're in the game. Fallout 3 barely introduced anything new. and the things that were introduced were either given weird storylines or little backstory, or were shown in a bad way. Also Mothership Zeta crossed the line into stupidity.

Also about the game example I used, all I was saying was that why have a game where you can only use melee weapons, when there are guns lying around. It makes more sense. How did a bunch of settlers manage to create an entire city by tearing down an airfield, yet they don't know how to build a well? Which they could use to find clean water. I mean seriously it's been 200 years since the bombs fell, people in D.C must be pretty lazy compared to California who managed to create a thriving city with 300,000 members and fully working government in a shorter time? Not to mention wells and agriculture.

 

[infinity_turtles]

I've spent more time with New Vegas than I have with Fallout 3 so far, and have encountered less bugs. I don't know if that's more common than the opposite, but I don't really care. I've also enjoyed every bit of New Vegas more. So yeah, thumbs up to Obsidian. They more or less delivered the game I expected. Was hoping for some more companions, but whatever. Also love the way it so blatantly ignores the changes Bethesda's version tried to make to the lore.

Also, you haven't played Mask of the Betrayer? You poor soul...

 

[Mythiii]

Well I still can't use VATS without getting the infamous blue screen of death, so yeah..

 

[asinann]

Never seen anyone so quick to dismiss Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mask of the Betrayer. It had rough edges, yes, but it was hardly "broken."

You didn't try to play it through the first 7 patches then did you? You had to run Daemon tools or a crack to play the game because it wouldn't read the CD and hence, wouldn't start. It took them 5 patches to fix that one.

On another note, neither Fallout 3 or Fallout NV will let me play in my monitor's native resolution of 1920x1080. In fact, if I try taking it above 1280x720 letterbox the game crashes every time it tries to load.

 

[Knight Templar]

I read this and thought, "no issues for me yet".
Now I've had people and followers fall into the ground or out of existence, and load times get longer and longer the more areas I move into.

 

[tehbeard]

tl;dr the thread.

for these reasons, I am glad gearbox is doing DNF, and not obsidian.

it also makes me feel a bit sad, sure FO3 had its issues, but none as bad as what i've heard of New vegas.

 

[Stabby Joe]

I don't know if it's a case of luck but the only bugs I've encountered after 15 hours is a couple of AI pathfinding issues and one instance where my gun vanished in first person view.

 

[Sir Prize]

Well, like some of the Xbox 360 crowd, I brought the game and have encountered one bug, the NPCs getting stuck in rocks, table and alike. While not gaming breaking, and at the time humorous, I don't think most could game companies would try to get away with something so glaring.

 

[DayDark]

I don't prefer the others because they're more realistic, I prefer them because they explain things better, give you more background lore and just generally give you more options. Being forced to help the Knights-in-shining-armour BoS was a dumb move as they were never a major faction. Also I'm not saying radiation mutation and FEV is realistic, just that it isn't a "do-anything" tool. There is a limit.

They were never a major faction in comparison to what? Saying something was never a major faction is pretty vague, given it doesn't present an actual size. F3 is also some time after the other games, are you saying the couldn't have grown? OF course the two first games give you more lore, they were the ones to establish the whole fallout universe. I remember remember there not being a story to most of the things in F3, your gonna have to give me some examples, it's been some time since I played F3. I mean there's a whole explanation to why "BoS" are good. Little Lamplight had a background and explanation as well. And you aren't forced to help them, because you can also help the enclave instead, and I distinctively remember bombing the shit out of them.

Also remember the Fallout series is based in a 1940/50's world, so things like giant ants, mutants and ghouls are what people thought would happen and was featured in movies, that's why they're in the game. Fallout 3 barely introduced anything new. and the things that were introduced were either given weird storylines or little backstory, or were shown in a bad way. Also Mothership Zeta crossed the line into stupidity.

I don't see how mothership zeta crossed the line, given that, as you say yourself, the fallout series is based on 1940/50's's world. UFO's and aliens were major movie themes in that period of time as well as giant ants and mutants, the whole alien thing is also based on a random encounter in the old games. So F3 wasn't the one to introduce it, only to expand upon it.

Also about the game example I used, all I was saying was that why have a game where you can only use melee weapons, when there are guns lying around. It makes more sense. How did a bunch of settlers manage to create an entire city by tearing down an airfield, yet they don't know how to build a well? Which they could use to find clean water.

What airfield? are you talking about the aircraft carrier? Rivet City? I imagine the groundwater would be pretty polluted with radioactive waste. Groundwater is just surface water/rain water, which is sunken into the ground, it can easily be polluted even by todays standards.

I mean seriously it's been 200 years since the bombs fell, people in D.C must be pretty lazy compared to California who managed to create a thriving city with 300,000 members and fully working government in a shorter time? Not to mention wells and agriculture.

Are you saying there doesn't exist slower produced societies in real life? Are the middle east just as advanced as the west? But really this seems an unfair comparison, was california hit as hard as DC? How Many people survived in each city? Were there starting conditions similar? Did they encounter the same problems? why aren't the groundwater in california polluted? Which sounds more believable, that 200 after nuclear apocalypse, humanity is still struggling, or that California managed to create a working society with 300.000 members 200 years after being radioactively bombed to hell. Now obviously in the games, California somehow managed this, so we can't really argue with it. But does this mean that DC is lazy or that California is fucking lucky, and extra-ordinary?

 

[Jandau]

Personally, I'd rather call New Vegas "Obsidian does it for the first time!"

Does what? Release a fairly finished product. I'm over 20 hours into the game so far. Zero crashes. Zero bugged quests. A scorpion and a centaur stuck in the terrain (still killed them). I had far more problems with FO3. In fact, this is by far the best game I've seen Obsidian make so far.

Perhaps the console versions are bug infested atrocities and my PC version is smooth as silk? Perhaps the patches that came out within a few days of release squashed all the bugs? Either way, I have no idea what Shamus is talking about. Heck, even the Ghoul encounter he described went off without a hitch...

 

[zombays]

DON'T YOU DARE BRING UP DUNGEON SIEGE 2


EDIT: Fuuuuuuck, I brought it up.

 

[zombays]

-snip-

Woooooah there, speed racist (from a video) this is a GAME. Same with the other guy, whatever his name is. You should only take it seriously when it changes modern culture.

 

[zombays]

Personally, I'd rather call New Vegas "Obsidian does it for the first time!"

Does what? Release a fairly finished product. I'm over 20 hours into the game so far. Zero crashes. Zero bugged quests. A scorpion and a centaur stuck in the terrain (still killed them). I had far more problems with FO3. In fact, this is by far the best game I've seen Obsidian make so far.

Perhaps the console versions are bug infested atrocities and my PC version is smooth as silk? Perhaps the patches that came out within a few days of release squashed all the bugs? Either way, I have no idea what Shamus is talking about. Heck, even the Ghoul encounter he described went off without a hitch...

The Console version F'd up infants Aliens vs Predator 2: Requiem style. In terms of bugs, that is.

 

[deckai]

Well, on my first day I lost approximately 6 hours of play-time, thanks to this nasty saving-bug, at first I was really pissed, but after a short Internet search I discovered a workaround.

But the crazy thing is... after playing again, midway to the point I was before....all rage was gone. I realized that although I lost 6 hours, playing trough those 6 hours again, made as much fun as the first time.

And thankfully this was the only major bug I encounter (not counting the occasional crashes to desktop), the other bugs I saw so far were all A.I or scripting bugs, but nothing really game-breaking.

I really hope Obsidian will purge all the major bugs soon, so all the other players can enjoy this.

 

[ChupathingyX]

I don't prefer the others because they're more realistic, I prefer them because they explain things better, give you more background lore and just generally give you more options. Being forced to help the Knights-in-shining-armour BoS was a dumb move as they were never a major faction. Also I'm not saying radiation mutation and FEV is realistic, just that it isn't a "do-anything" tool. There is a limit.

They were never a major faction in comparison to what? Saying something was never a major faction is pretty vague, given it doesn't present an actual size. F3 is also some time after the other games, are you saying the couldn't have grown? OF course the two first games give you more lore, they were the ones to establish the whole fallout universe. I remember remember there not being a story to most of the things in F3, your gonna have to give me some examples, it's been some time since I played F3. I mean there's a whole explanation to why "BoS" are good. Little Lamplight had a background and explanation as well. And you aren't forced to help them, because you can also help the enclave instead, and I distinctively remember bombing the shit out of them.

Also remember the Fallout series is based in a 1940/50's world, so things like giant ants, mutants and ghouls are what people thought would happen and was featured in movies, that's why they're in the game. Fallout 3 barely introduced anything new. and the things that were introduced were either given weird storylines or little backstory, or were shown in a bad way. Also Mothership Zeta crossed the line into stupidity.

I don't see how mothership zeta crossed the line, given that, as you say yourself, the fallout series is based on 1940/50's's world. UFO's and aliens were major movie themes in that period of time as well as giant ants and mutants, the whole alien thing is also based on a random encounter in the old games. So F3 wasn't the one to introduce it, only to expand upon it.

Also about the game example I used, all I was saying was that why have a game where you can only use melee weapons, when there are guns lying around. It makes more sense. How did a bunch of settlers manage to create an entire city by tearing down an airfield, yet they don't know how to build a well? Which they could use to find clean water.

What airfield? are you talking about the aircraft carrier? Rivet City? I imagine the groundwater would be pretty polluted with radioactive waste. Groundwater is just surface water/rain water, which is sunken into the ground, it can easily be polluted even by todays standards.

I mean seriously it's been 200 years since the bombs fell, people in D.C must be pretty lazy compared to California who managed to create a thriving city with 300,000 members and fully working government in a shorter time? Not to mention wells and agriculture.

Are you saying there doesn't exist slower produced societies in real life? Are the middle east just as advanced as the west? But really this seems an unfair comparison, was california hit as hard as DC? How Many people survived in each city? Were there starting conditions similar? Did they encounter the same problems? why aren't the groundwater in california polluted? Which sounds more believable, that 200 after nuclear apocalypse, humanity is still struggling, or that California managed to create a working society with 300.000 members 200 years after being radioactively bombed to hell. Now obviously in the games, California somehow managed this, so we can't really argue with it. But does this mean that DC is lazy or that California is fucking lucky, and extra-ordinary?

To your...
1st point. The BoS were just small, they did not have access to anf giant major fortresses or have large regiments of forces, they didn't have a major impact on the wasteland, they kept only to themselves, you could completely ignore them. Also Fallout 3 introduced a whole new land, on the other side of America. So it basically "established" what the lore of the East coast was. So yes there should be a good explanation to what happened, which for the most part there was. Jut not as much as the west.

2nd point. Mothership crossed the line by a lot. The Fallout series was originally about humanity trying to rebuild society in a hostile and destroyed world, our world, earth. Also all random encounters in F1/2 were non-canon and just meant to be jokles and not taken seriously, that's why the "Wild Wasteland" trait was introduced into New Vegas.

3rd point. I'm talking about Megaton. It was built by a group of people who stripped down a small nearby airfield and turned it into a town around the bomb (which is also stupid because they had no knowledge of whether it was active or not). Yet they couldn't build a well and maybe find some clean water underground. Even tribes in F1/2 have managed to build wells.

4th point. Of course not. But Bethesda didn't get the message of the previous Fallouts which I mentioned before and instead just created a bunch of stuff to play with. Also yes California was hit pretty hard. Also about the NCR. Many people found out about it in all the surrounding areas which were also towns and villages. NCR expanded and these areas fused into the NCR (I should've mentioned this before), but anyway the point is that they were trying hard to get everyone back on their feet. People in DC just seem to have lost hope of getting things back to normal. They also were able to create agriculture which doesn't exist in DC either, which means that eventually all pre-existing food will run out, and people will have to rely on things like Brahmin and other animals and would have no veg or other food. OH and how could I forget. There were vaults on the west coast around California whose goal was to wait a certain amount of years and then go outside and re-populate, and recreate the world. They would've had things like seeds and equipement needed to create something like the NCR. A G.E.C.K also would've helped considerably .

Which brings me to a strange point. IN Fallout 3 why can't you use the GECK to make everything good again, instead of wasting it on a water purifier. The GECKs were capable of creating fields of farmland, yet in Fallout 3 you waste it on a water purifier. Vault 8 is a perfect example of something that you could've used the GECK for in a much smarter way.

 

[DayDark]

To your...
1st point. The BoS were just small, they did not have access to anf giant major fortresses or have large regiments of forces, they didn't have a major impact on the wasteland, they kept only to themselves, you could completely ignore them. Also Fallout 3 introduced a whole new land, on the other side of America. So it basically "established" what the lore of the East coast was. So yes there should be a good explanation to what happened, which for the most part there was. Jut not as much as the west.

Fair enough.

2nd point. Mothership crossed the line by a lot. The Fallout series was originally about humanity trying to rebuild society in a hostile and destroyed world, our world, earth. Also all random encounters in F1/2 were non-canon and just meant to be jokles and not taken seriously, that's why the "Wild Wasteland" trait was introduced into New Vegas.

It might originally have been about that, but I think they crossed that line when they introduced non-realistic hostile conditions, that's pretty much where it stops being about our world or earth, because the whole thing is in an alternate universe with mutants, giant insects, and ghouls. I can't see how this does not cross the line, but aliens do.

3rd point. I'm talking about Megaton. It was built by a group of people who stripped down a small nearby airfield and turned it into a town around the bomb (which is also stupid because they had no knowledge of whether it was active or not). Yet they couldn't build a well and maybe find some clean water underground. Even tribes in F1/2 have managed to build wells.

Maybe they lacked the knowledge/man power/will power, to do so. it's easier to strip something apart, than it is to build something. I remember there being water around the bomb in megaton, either that's rain water or ground water, either way, the ground water would be polluted. I'd have to say it would be a bigger logical leap, if they build a well and managed to find clean water. Not that I don't see your point, maybe they should have build a well, simply to show that the people tried it, but there should be polluted water in that well though.

4th point. Of course not. But Bethesda didn't get the message of the previous Fallouts which I mentioned before and instead just created a bunch of stuff to play with. Also yes California was hit pretty hard. Also about the NCR. Many people found out about it in all the surrounding areas which were also towns and villages.

But that's the thing, it depends entirely upon who you ask what the message is with the old fallouts, I'd say bethesda managed to create the atmosphere correctly, with despair and lost hope, and just showing people managing. You can't show how humanity tries to rebuild itself in our world, when "our world" consists of a 1950's futuristic alternate universe with ghouls/brahmins/rad scorpions/super mutants various other mutated creatures, and in my opinion, you can't say that aliens would ruin this, but the other stuff would not.

NCR expanded and these areas fused into the NCR (I should've mentioned this before), but anyway the point is that they were trying hard to get everyone back on their feet. People in DC just seem to have lost hope of getting things back to normal. They also were able to create agriculture which doesn't exist in DC either, which means that eventually all pre-existing food will run out, and people will have to rely on things like Brahmin and other animals and would have no veg or other food. OH and how could I forget. There were vaults on the west coast around California whose goal was to wait a certain amount of years and then go outside and re-populate, and recreate the world. They would've had things like seeds and equipement needed to create something like the NCR. A G.E.C.K also would've helped considerably .

That also sound pretty remarkable, agriculture shouldn't really be an option, given that radiation would hit all biological life. The vault seeds would counteract this somewhat, provided the plants didn't build biomass with radiated CO[sub]2[/sub] and H[sub]2[/sub]O. The geck would fix this though, given it's power to terraform.

Which brings me to a strange point. IN Fallout 3 why can't you use the GECK to make everything good again, instead of wasting it on a water purifier. The GECKs were capable of creating fields of farmland, yet in Fallout 3 you waste it on a water purifier. Vault 8 is a perfect example of something that you could've used the GECK for in a much smarter way.

I'm pretty sure you can actually activate the geck, and proceed to die, as you get terraformed. But more to the point, I would say that clean water is more important than clean food.

 

[ChupathingyX]

2nd point. Mothership crossed the line by a lot. The Fallout series was originally about humanity trying to rebuild society in a hostile and destroyed world, our world, earth. Also all random encounters in F1/2 were non-canon and just meant to be jokles and not taken seriously, that's why the "Wild Wasteland" trait was introduced into New Vegas.

It might originally have been about that, but I think they crossed that line when they introduced non-realistic hostile conditions, that's pretty much where it stops being about our world or earth, because the whole thing is in an alternate universe with mutants, giant insects, and ghouls. I can't see how this does not cross the line, but aliens do.

Which brings me to a strange point. IN Fallout 3 why can't you use the GECK to make everything good again, instead of wasting it on a water purifier. The GECKs were capable of creating fields of farmland, yet in Fallout 3 you waste it on a water purifier. Vault 8 is a perfect example of something that you could've used the GECK for in a much smarter way.

I'm pretty sure you can actually activate the geck, and proceed to die, as you get terraformed. But more to the point, I would say that clean water is more important than clean food.

But thats my point, why does the GECK just blow up like that? It shouldn't, it isn't an explosive device, it's a device that contais many tools that can be used to create a sustainable environment, if GECKs just blew up like that then how did Vault City get started?

Also you have to look at it this way. Super mutants, ghouls, rad-creatures, they're just ambience mostly, they represent a cruel and unforgiving world that was caused by humanitys insatiable greed and now they need to fix their own mess. The creatures just add to the horror of nuclear war, they represent the harsh realities of war. Aliens were never part of the Fallout lore in any game, including Tactics and BoS. But then suddenly Bethesda decide to create an entire storyline based on the aliens. They have nothing to do with humanity, they weren't created by us, they're not a result of the war, they're just an addition, and remember that creashed ship from F2 was an easter egg, nothing more.

Also yes the original Fallouts were about rebuilding society and how humanity would act in a new world, that was stated mostly by the developers in old interviews. Bethesda took the stuff from those games and did what they wanted with it. A really stupid thing they did was make all the super mutants stupid (except Fawkes and Uncle Leo, although they still had the stupid voice). In F1/2 SM's were not stupid, a few were, but defianately not all of them. Also a lot of them had normal sounding voices, not constipated ones. Just look up Marcus, who also appears in Fallout: New Vegas, his voice is completely normal, also Neil also has a very normal voice.

Finally Bethesda did not create the mood perfectly, it isn't all just about hope and despair. If people just sit around all sad and hoping for someone to save them, they'll never get anywhere, they have to take action. The NCR know this well and as soon as they found out about Hoover Dam, bang, they were there and now they pay for it by getting entangled in a war. Fallout 3 goes more like; daddy left, go rescue him, evil Enclave show up and be evil, knights-in-shining-armour BoS save the wasteland by destroying the evil President Eden and the evil Col. Autumn. In a way it's almost Tolkienesque. At least in Fallout 1 the Master gives many reasons as to how what he believes is good and what he is doing is the right thing to do.

 

[DayDark]

1. plants do not give a shit about radiation. plant life would flourish as animal life does.

actually plants get effected by radiation just like everything else, they aren't immune to radiation, in combination with an actual bombing, another thing plant life can't handle, plants would be in deep shit. The only reason why Chernobyl has plant life is because it was only radiation, and not a bombed to shit as well, and so they had time to adapt. If plants shall survive hostile conditions, it's pretty essential that the transition to those hostile condition aren't so violent you don't survive the shift, kind like if someone, I don't know, dropped a fucking nuclear bomb on them. Also, even if they managed to survive, they will also have to adapt to the climate changes induced by a nuclear apocalypse, on top of that there's also the fact that they could be poisonous through radiation, to everything that eat them. I'm pretty sure the only creature we have alive today that can survive a nuclear apocalypse, is the cockroach, and that's not even because it's immune, it's because radiation is most harmful when you replicate your cells, and cockroaches only replicate their cells when they change hide. So even they aren't safe, as they would have to change at some point.

2. the GECK isn't a magical machine, its a grab bag of survival tools and machines used to create cities like vault city, not restore the world to pre-war conditions. "terraforming" is BS created by bethesda because they still follow the "magic" rule of elder scrolls.

actually it is pretty magical, given that it's the size of a suitcase and has a cold fusion power source. I also understand that there was a tribe in F2 that managed to use the geck, even though the geck was intended for people who could read, they also called it the Holy GECK, sacred, and magical, because it could change the Wasteland into fertile land again.

You don't think ghouls and giant growth through radiation to be magic either I take.

But thats my point, why does the GECK just blow up like that? It shouldn't, it isn't an explosive device, it's a device that contais many tools that can be used to create a sustainable environment, if GECKs just blew up like that then how did Vault City get started?

I don't know, to me it's impossible either way.

Also you have to look at it this way. Super mutants, ghouls, rad-creatures, they're just ambience mostly, they represent a cruel and unforgiving world that was caused by humanitys insatiable greed and now they need to fix their own mess. The creatures just add to the horror of nuclear war, they represent the harsh realities of war. Aliens were never part of the Fallout lore in any game, including Tactics and BoS. But then suddenly Bethesda decide to create an entire storyline based on the aliens. They have nothing to do with humanity, they weren't created by us, they're not a result of the war, they're just an addition, and remember that creashed ship from F2 was an easter egg, nothing more.

I disagree, I find the ghouls and rad scorpions to be a symptom of the fact that this was imagined by a 1950's play on fears, nothing of it speaks of war to me. Aliens were never part of the lore but they were part of the fears that 1950's played upon. It may have been an easter egg, but it's not out of the universe, because aliens were part of the 1950's.

Also yes the original Fallouts were about rebuilding society and how humanity would act in a new world, that was stated mostly by the developers in old interviews. Bethesda took the stuff from those games and did what they wanted with it. A really stupid thing they did was make all the super mutants stupid (except Fawkes and Uncle Leo, although they still had the stupid voice). In F1/2 SM's were not stupid, a few were, but defianately not all of them. Also a lot of them had normal sounding voices, not constipated ones. Just look up Marcus, who also appears in Fallout: New Vegas, his voice is completely normal, also Neil also has a very normal voice.

Aren't the super mutants in F3 a result of them trying to replicate themselves, I mean if the mutants that started this were dumb, then it isn't far fetched that they can't replicate the conditions needed to make a "perfect" super mutant.

Finally Bethesda did not create the mood perfectly, it isn't all just about hope and despair. If people just sit around all sad and hoping for someone to save them, they'll never get anywhere, they have to take action. The NCR know this well and as soon as they found out about Hoover Dam, bang, they were there and now they pay for it by getting entangled in a war.

Same with the BoS in F3, they decided to help the people, and as such disobeyed the code of the BoS and so was cut of from their homebase, and some of their people deserted, not liking what Owyn Lyons did with the group. And now they were in an otherwise eternal struggle with the super mutants.

Fallout 3 goes more like; daddy left, go rescue him, evil Enclave show up and be evil, knights-in-shining-armour BoS save the wasteland by destroying the evil President Eden and the evil Col. Autumn. In a way it's almost Tolkienesque. At least in Fallout 1 the Master gives many reasons as to how what he believes is good and what he is doing is the right thing to do.

The enclave aren't necessarily evil, they just have a different solution. None of these people are evil, talk to Presentent Eden with a higher speech skill.