Ocean Marketing vs. Penny Arcade
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I'm gonna descend from the wings of lurkdom and offer my two cents into this entire fiasco--Although at this point, my two cents is gonna make the whole plethora of offerings and counter-offerings into a good, tidy sum! When you work for a company, as a customer-service rep, you *represent* that company. You are, by the proxy of your very job, something greater than yourself. I know it sounds a bit high-handed, but bear with me, here.
If I ever have to go out and pick up things for my job while in uniform, for instance, I am unfailingly polite to both other customers, as well as cashiers who are processing my transaction.
Why?
Because, while I'm in uniform, anybody can look at me and see where I work. As a result of that, they will then draw opinions of where I work, based upon my attitude. I can't tell you the number of times I've had customers come into *my* store, wearing a work-uniform and, yelling and screaming and cursing and being rude, have subsequently caused me to mentally mark off their place of business as being a place I would care to spend my time and money.
Is this unfair to the company they represent? Absolutely. Having read up on the product made by the company he represented (past-tense!) it seems rather unfortunate that sales for something originally constructed to overcome a handicap will suffer. Frankly, I think we should focus on the actual offender, rather than lumping in anybody that is, simply by proxy of their being near him, in with him.
As for the part where there are fake Twitter accounts being made and slandering his name, it's an unfortunate byproduct. In the world we're living in today, with instantaneous information from all around the country and even the world, we have, as a result, developed multiple avenues of expression, Twitter being one of them. Am I sorry it happened? Not particularly. That's not simply because of how he seems to be, based upon the information garnered here, and elsewhere.
It is what it is, and that is all.
If I ever have to go out and pick up things for my job while in uniform, for instance, I am unfailingly polite to both other customers, as well as cashiers who are processing my transaction.
Why?
Because, while I'm in uniform, anybody can look at me and see where I work. As a result of that, they will then draw opinions of where I work, based upon my attitude. I can't tell you the number of times I've had customers come into *my* store, wearing a work-uniform and, yelling and screaming and cursing and being rude, have subsequently caused me to mentally mark off their place of business as being a place I would care to spend my time and money.
Is this unfair to the company they represent? Absolutely. Having read up on the product made by the company he represented (past-tense!) it seems rather unfortunate that sales for something originally constructed to overcome a handicap will suffer. Frankly, I think we should focus on the actual offender, rather than lumping in anybody that is, simply by proxy of their being near him, in with him.
As for the part where there are fake Twitter accounts being made and slandering his name, it's an unfortunate byproduct. In the world we're living in today, with instantaneous information from all around the country and even the world, we have, as a result, developed multiple avenues of expression, Twitter being one of them. Am I sorry it happened? Not particularly. That's not simply because of how he seems to be, based upon the information garnered here, and elsewhere.
It is what it is, and that is all.
@BiscuitTrouser @ZacharyAmaranth
This all took place in the public domain...you are acting like we are all as bad as him for laughing at his foolish actions.
The internet didn't hang him up and string him from a tree. He ruined his own life at the end of the day.
People makes jokes about current affairs on the internet all the time I'm pretty sure nobody is trying to slander him.
It boggles the mind why you would want to defend this guy at all...
And as for Watchdog I was referring to the fact that they point out conmen, name them publicly and warn people. I imagine you knew that though and where just trying to twist my words...
I think you are confusing me defending the people you see as slanderers and me being puzzled as to why you would all out defend someone who is clearly guilty of what he was originally accused of. Making a strawman argument in other words.
This all took place in the public domain...you are acting like we are all as bad as him for laughing at his foolish actions.
The internet didn't hang him up and string him from a tree. He ruined his own life at the end of the day.
People makes jokes about current affairs on the internet all the time I'm pretty sure nobody is trying to slander him.
It boggles the mind why you would want to defend this guy at all...
And as for Watchdog I was referring to the fact that they point out conmen, name them publicly and warn people. I imagine you knew that though and where just trying to twist my words...
I think you are confusing me defending the people you see as slanderers and me being puzzled as to why you would all out defend someone who is clearly guilty of what he was originally accused of. Making a strawman argument in other words.
Keep in mind people threatened individuals at infinity ward just for putting last stand in Black Ops, and bomb threats at Best Buy store that didn't have their preorders, it's not that far fetched for someone threaten his family especially considering the anonymity the internet gives them.Freyar said:
yes i have run my mouth before and i got summarily beaten for it and guess what? It worked i never did it again. This man harrassed his customers when they simply asked why their product hadnt shiped yet. you know the product they had ALREADY paid for! He violated at least 6 laws in what he has said and done, two of them are federal laws. So yeah this guy gets no pitty from me. His family does and they should be left alone as it is not their fault his an asshole.BiscuitTrouser said:For bad PR? Maybe hes done other things. But as bystanders on the internet it is not our place to punish someone for illegal activities. It is the courts and the llegal system. As of now he will be punished in two ways, one by us vigilante justice, and one by the courts. This isnt right, it isnt our place to dole out punishment.ecoho said:
Stupid should hurt. He was fired. He has terrible terrible reputation. But to ruin his life is just OTT. Have you EVER run your mouth? Ever? You have, if you say no youre a liar. Youve said stupid shit. And although it damaged your reputation you most certainly didnt expect everyone who tangentally heard about the issue to go and "ruin your life".
He deserves some of whats coming to him, the proper llegal punishment. But not random internet attack. Thats just pointless.
This is slander. Ocean stretagy isnt him. Its someone pretending to be him and saying things to make him look bad. People IN THIS THREAD believe it. This is illegal. This is sick. Look at the lengths people are going to increminate him, even pretending to say illegal things to rile up more hatred. Doesnt that strike you as fucked up?evilneko said:This screencap shows how much he deserved all this...
Really?
REALLY?
http://twitter.com/#!/oceanstretagy/status/151810591013617664
Yeah. I'm surprised he didn't delete it...
If this thing with this guy hasn't already gone too far, it's getting there pretty quickly. Leave him alone. Isn't it enough he lost the client, probably ruined his career and has a meme about him that will haunt him for the rest of his life? Yah what the guy did was very douchey, but how much punishment is enough for you people? Christ he regrets his actions, maybe not for the most honorable reasons, but he sure as hell regrets them. What do you want, him burnt at the stake or something?
He's not sorry for being an asshat, and he's not changing his ways. He's been trying to spin it so he's a victim when in reality he's just a terrible guy doing a terrible job and cutting so many corners that there aren't any. If he were truly concerned about it, he'd stop aggravating everyone with his unbelievable excuses.LHZA said:
Freyar said:
Yeah, you make a good point. The guy should stop commenting on the situation because he's just adding more fuel to the fire. I'm not arguing that the guy isn't a total tool, I'm just saying at some point his punishment has to end and I'm thinking it's already got to that point. His trying to make himself out to be the victim was initially just really really sad (as in pathetic), but now it's in danger of becoming true.
In everyday life I would avoid someone like this like the plague. Why bother? Life's too short and people like that usually get what's coming to them. Also they are not nearly as happy in life as they bombastically claim they are. Bravado usually hides feelings of inferiority. This guy has got what was coming to him. Now just leave him alone with his shattered carreer, steriod shrunken penis and world wide recognition as a class "A" asshole.
People are acting like this guy posses some threat to them. How? Most of us will never have to interact with this guy face to face. The punishment should fit the crime, and all I'm saying is I think that's been accomplished. Mostly what I'm against is people still sending him emails and threats against his family. That's a sign things have gone too far.
I think it's the lack of a Jack Thompson that's earned some ire, on top of that the fact that he verbally abused a supporting structure for charity, intellectual (debatable depending on who you talk to) discourse, and generally a universal community for people that are in his demographic.LHZA said:
People threaten my parents and my siblings day in and day out. That's the common scenario for gaming in public matches. Considering this guy seems completely at home on Xbox Live, I'm not quite sure why this is any different than playing on there.
I'll update here with my thoughts from the other thread.
1. This Christoforo is an idiot, who liked to pretend he was powerful, was given a tiny bit of power and it went to his head. He is no real criminal and does not deserve half the crap going his way, to believe otherwise is to greatly exaggerate the situation in a way to justify whatever beliefs you hold.
2. The mob mentality is getting way out of control. (watch the derren brown episode if you get a chance, it's really really good). The post on penny arcade was enough to ruin his career. Exposing past convictions, or personal issues is purely vindictive and his use of piracy and copyright theft are matters of corporate law, not internet hate campaigns
3. this nerd rage is fueled by the idea that having been bullied they cannot be the bully This is also evident in Gabe's response to the apology. As much as dealing with bullies is important, wishing to see them suffer is not the correct reaction, all it does is change who is the bully and who is being bullied.
4. Vigilante justice is not smart and often acts without full knowledge of the situation. Look at the Amazon bombs. As much as people think they are being clever and productive, no one here knows the full story. The place where a full story would be examined is in a court, where all legal disputes should be settled.
5. Put aside your feelings towards this man and look at how vindictive the behaviour of everyone trying to destroy him is. It shows badly on our community, it shows badly on humanity itself.
Yes, it is nice that as a community we look after our own, but this is not what is going on here. This is a systemic and deliberate destruction of this man's life.
Know that should you bring him to the point where he ends his life, you, and everyone egging the mob on shall be responsible. (Go and watch the Derren Brown episode. Now.)
I hope that just a few people read this and have a serious think about what is going on here.
I hope they put aside the idea that because this man is "bad" doing anything "bad" to him is right. That may be how morality works in games, but it's not how morality works in real life.
(also)
The dangers of mob mentality are well documenter and can be incredibly dangerous even when going against people worth forming a mob to attack
How to create the mob mentality? Lets look here. Apply the first paragraph to what Gabe's actions were - he consolidated flammable material, provided oxygen to burn and lit a spark - knowing full well what the consequences would be.
Or maybe you think this is justified because of some form of vigilantism? (if you have argued along the lines of "if we don't do this he wouldn't be stopped, then you are arguing for this) yet this is disproved thoroughly here
Maybe you think internet abuse isn't really that bad? Well it's punishable by law here (for dark reasons - internet defamation led to a young girls suicide)Or punishable universally in the US here. (yes not strictly speaking in the direct vein but people are making outright character assumptions without full knowledge of situation - with the "roid rage comments" and anything related to the closed court case of the domestic violence charge)
Please people - do the required reading It's in blue like this before making an argument, there is no adequate defence for this sort of action - it is this sort of righteous knee jerk reactionary crowd mindset that we must be wary of.
1. This Christoforo is an idiot, who liked to pretend he was powerful, was given a tiny bit of power and it went to his head. He is no real criminal and does not deserve half the crap going his way, to believe otherwise is to greatly exaggerate the situation in a way to justify whatever beliefs you hold.
2. The mob mentality is getting way out of control. (watch the derren brown episode if you get a chance, it's really really good). The post on penny arcade was enough to ruin his career. Exposing past convictions, or personal issues is purely vindictive and his use of piracy and copyright theft are matters of corporate law, not internet hate campaigns
3. this nerd rage is fueled by the idea that having been bullied they cannot be the bully This is also evident in Gabe's response to the apology. As much as dealing with bullies is important, wishing to see them suffer is not the correct reaction, all it does is change who is the bully and who is being bullied.
4. Vigilante justice is not smart and often acts without full knowledge of the situation. Look at the Amazon bombs. As much as people think they are being clever and productive, no one here knows the full story. The place where a full story would be examined is in a court, where all legal disputes should be settled.
5. Put aside your feelings towards this man and look at how vindictive the behaviour of everyone trying to destroy him is. It shows badly on our community, it shows badly on humanity itself.
Yes, it is nice that as a community we look after our own, but this is not what is going on here. This is a systemic and deliberate destruction of this man's life.
Know that should you bring him to the point where he ends his life, you, and everyone egging the mob on shall be responsible. (Go and watch the Derren Brown episode. Now.)
I hope that just a few people read this and have a serious think about what is going on here.
I hope they put aside the idea that because this man is "bad" doing anything "bad" to him is right. That may be how morality works in games, but it's not how morality works in real life.
(also)
The dangers of mob mentality are well documenter and can be incredibly dangerous even when going against people worth forming a mob to attack
How to create the mob mentality? Lets look here. Apply the first paragraph to what Gabe's actions were - he consolidated flammable material, provided oxygen to burn and lit a spark - knowing full well what the consequences would be.
Or maybe you think this is justified because of some form of vigilantism? (if you have argued along the lines of "if we don't do this he wouldn't be stopped, then you are arguing for this) yet this is disproved thoroughly here
Maybe you think internet abuse isn't really that bad? Well it's punishable by law here (for dark reasons - internet defamation led to a young girls suicide)Or punishable universally in the US here. (yes not strictly speaking in the direct vein but people are making outright character assumptions without full knowledge of situation - with the "roid rage comments" and anything related to the closed court case of the domestic violence charge)
Please people - do the required reading It's in blue like this before making an argument, there is no adequate defence for this sort of action - it is this sort of righteous knee jerk reactionary crowd mindset that we must be wary of.
It's kind of funny.. as far as I know, we're merely talking about him and reading what information is available. Maybe it's me being tired, but I don't see anyone wishing to go after his kid, his wife, or further damaging his life. We don't like him, that's perfectly fine. Commenting on his responses is perfectly fine as well.Flying Dagger said:
Because the ones in the mob laughing and approving have no effect on the ones doing the bad things that gain their approval? Digging up details about his possible drug addiction, court cases we cannot know details of, complete character assassination, review bombing a product he's tangentially (though this is debatable) related to, pretending to be him on twitter to get him into further trouble, sending his family death threats. These are the actions of the mob, don't think just because you didn't do them that you are absolved of all consequence.Freyar said:
Though you're right. It is funny. Because you'd understand that if you had read the articles I linked.
I'm not taking responsibility for what other people decide to do. If someone decides to steal from a store (read: non-violent, no confrontation), am I responsible for it because I dislike the business and feel like with the way they were managing their dealings that they were kind of asking for it?Flying Dagger said:
No. I don't like the notion of people pretending to be Paul trying to cause trouble. That's annoying and adds to the mud of the situation. I don't like people sending death threats to family, but I know that happens in almost any high-profile scenario. Do I like people review-bombing the controller/add on? No, but that's to be expected and N-Controller is not fully absolved of their contribution to this problem (namely failing to ship, and choosing to go with Paul the "thug".)
The internet is not a private place, never was. Hell, my personal information has been compromised no less than six times in the past year through no fault of my own. Paul chose to provide that information, even if he didn't think it through.
I can sit here, and consider the information brought to me and make my opinion based on what I hear and what I can safely assume. (In this case assuming that a number of details are incomplete, while Paul's behavior in Marketting (sic) are constant and indicative of his behavior with his dealings.)
If you don't like the things the mob is doing - why do you approve of the outcome? Whether you like it or not posting on a message board saying that you like seeing this man getting slapped down (beyond just fired - which should be done for gross incompetence, or made to face for his actual crimes - which is a court matter) is to validate those who take these extreme measures.Freyar said:
Don't get me wrong - I'm all about the ends justifying the means, but here neither ends nor means are heading in the right direction.
Because I can approve of the outcome regardless of the means. Yes, the whole "ends justify the means" thing. They're two separate entities I can judge independently. I can like what the mob is doing, even if I don't like the outcome- much like I can approve of how easy it was to tell my microwave to nuke something, even if the item was burned.Flying Dagger said:
While I know I have no say in what happens regarding Paul or N-Controller, I still have a small want to see him change for the better, this is why his apologies and excuses are still offensive. They're not indicative of him learning or changing anything (though it is extremely naive to think anything would), and basically lets him roll on like normal.
The Courts will decide whether or not anything criminal has been done. N-Controller has already punished him for his gross mishandling. It is not my place to charge Paul for anything, nor is it my place to fire Paul as a PR/Marketting (sic) guy. I am merely one who is observing with my own considerations with regards to everyone involved.
Firstly, the current ends seem to mostly revolve around Christoforo really enjoying all the attention he is being given.Freyar said:
But should they be what you seem to be wanting them to be - I see that as wishing a man to suffer - and I go beyond being unable to agree with that, and find myself pushed to actively argue against those who do wish it. Bad man or not (and as I stated previously - in a world full of actually evil people this is not someone who is worthy of this level of ire), I believe wishing someone to unduly suffer is wrong.
This emotion is fueled by anonymity and mob rule, and cannot be justified.
Freyar said:
So far even though I haven't agreed with you I have enjoyed how well you've framed your arguments. I'm kind of lost here. I don't get what point you are trying to make. I don't think it's okay that people make threats to anyone on X Box live and I really don't think that just because it may be a ubiquitous thing to do over the internet makes it okay. I'm also not arguing that this guy was incredible rude and stupid and should not have had a job in PR, customer service, whatever, and I will also agree it's justified that he lost his job. I just think the ire against him has now become pretty over blown. I also don't get the Jack Thompson comment. I know who Jack Thompson is I just don't see how he factors into this.
There is a significant difference between wishing a guy to languish and wishing a guy to improve his perspective and habits. You see my motives as one thing, while my motives are completely different.Flying Dagger said:
There's no current "Jack Thompson", an easy man to target as hostile to the gaming community. Sadly, the "Jack Thompson" target is squarely on Paul's face as far as the internet is concerned. A person easily able to be identified that dared to attack a foundation for gaming culture, no matter how stupid it was.LHZA said:
It's akin to the same reason why we are seeing Russians painted as bad guys in modern shooters again. Paul happened to pop up on the Internet's radar when there was no one to really take some of that aggression.
As far as Xbox Live? Eh. If he is a stereotypical Xbox Live player, nothing going on now outside of sheer volume would be out of the norm. I don't know, perhaps he's more uncomfortable because his real name is attached to the message as opposed to just his screen name or over Xbox Live's piss-poor voice codec.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114994-Ocean-Marketing-Attempts-To-Extort-Former-Client
So yeah Paul's back in the news again for trying to extort the company that fired him by locking them out of their email, twitter, and various social networking services.
So yeah Paul's back in the news again for trying to extort the company that fired him by locking them out of their email, twitter, and various social networking services.