"Ok, Boomer"

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah, but then there's nothing new about hating relatives who turn out different than you. Any number of people have been disowned by their family for being gay, say.

Oh, absolutely, but it seems to be much broader here. This isn't someone that's part of a generation in which that individual has traits you don't like (e.g. being gay); it's much broader in as much its the traits of the generation broadly that are disliked.

True, though it does seem society is becoming more tolerant of gay people on the whole, so perhaps there's still some value to the analogy.

It does seem rather odd, though.

 

[Saelune]

The thing I love the most about this is that Boomers have for years said Millenials are 'snowflakes'...

This is the real travesty. I want "snowflake" back. That started as an excellent way to describe the sort of person who's "just not like normal people", and at some point transformed into a word for anyone who's easily upset, and that wasn't what the insult was supposed to mean. It wasn't supposed to call someone fragile, it was supposed to criticize people who thought they were exceptionally different from everyone else.

Normal in this case being Straight White Men who conform to standard notions of gender identity.

Snowflake changed because we realized that the people using the term were projecting and scared by people who dared to be themselves, and who cannot stand criticism, ie, the people who used the term snowflake.

Do you also want the 'N word' back?

 

[CheetoDust_v1legacy]

I think millennials get a lot of undeserved stick (oh, we're killing the yacht market, are we? I'll pass your complaint to my employer and my landlord, just as soon as I finish this AVOCADO TOAST LOL). Then again, there's nothing inherently noble about ageism against older people either.

"You durn kids" versus "Stupid old geezers" - it's hardly a new sentiment. The Baby Boomer generation themselves rebelled against the WW2 generation. And in the context of a barbed political situation, I suppose tit for tat is fine - you want to pick a fight, you don't insist the other person fights with one arm behind his or her back.

It makes me wonder though, do we REALLY need yet more division at this point? We're already hyperaware of subdividing ourselves across the gender spectrum, racial boxes, points on the political divide, our position on the hierarchy of privilege. Now we can add strictly defined and jealously guarded generational categories to the mix. Well, I choose to identify as 200 years old; so all of you damn kids can get off my lawn and pull your damn pants up.

What middle, common ground do you think Millenials and Boomers can reach? They're basically polar opposites. Everything millenials want, free health care, affordable school and housing, equal rights, an end to the military industrial complex, a safer/cleaner planet, the rich to pay taxes, inclusion, end to harassment, etc...are all things Boomers are openly against. Its like trying to find common ground between an ant and an ant eater - ain't much there

It's even more irritating here in Ireland. A country that was largely built with free or affordable healthcare, education and housing. These were things so many people took for granted in the past here and now that younger generations are looking for theirs the boomers are calling them entitled.
"Why should my taxes be used to pay for your education?"
Because everyone else's taxes were used to pay for yours you dusty **** and because of that you have a well paying job and now it's your turn to pay taxes to support the next generation. We need to stop calling them boomers. They're the "Fuck you got mine" generation.

It's not even just boomers. My sister in law is about 13 years
older than me and was giving us crap because she owned a house by the time she was my age. She bought a house in 2007 when they were giving out mortgages in cereal boxes and she ignores that house prices are the highest they've ever been. Also ignores the fact that we are earning more and still can't afford a mortgage.

So, even though I've been in employment longer than she was by my age, in a more senior role than she was, earning more, living away from home longer, grew up in a poorer family where I wasn't gifted a few grand in a savings account when I turned 21 to get me started on a deposit on a mortgage like she was, reached adulthood at the start of a worldwide economic crash and am at the age people would consider buying houses at a time when prices are the highest they've ever been, because she had a house we should be able to as well and if we can't it must be our fault.

 

[Hades]

What middle, common ground do you think Millenials and Boomers can reach?

You'd think the fact that they're in some way related (i.e. by blood) would help, but it certainly feels like the Boomer generation hate their grandchildren.

They certainly place themselves above their grandchildren. On some level the boomer generation must realize that sabotaging the fight against global warming, starting the economic crisis and ushering in the age of populism will deeply harm their children and grandchildren. They know this but they also know that fighting global warming means making sacrifices to fight a problem of which the full effects only kick in after they are gone. They know that the current economic model isn't sustainable but they also know its their children and not themselves who will face the consequences, and populism is a good way of sticking a middle finger to the establishment while the catastrophic consequences are again reserved for the next generation.

And I think that's primarily where their snooty behavior towards the Millennial generation stems from. On some level the Boomer knows that they are purposely leaving the world a worse place then they found it, they know that they damage the future of the next generation just for their own convenience. But because this a highly uncomfortable thing to realize they convince themselves the problems just lies with millennial generation, that they are somehow spoiled and workshy and that the problems they will face stem from this wrong attitude, not the poisoned legacy the Boomer generation left their children.

 

[Pseudonym]

I'm conflicted. So on the one hand, this inter-generational conflict is dumb. On the other hand, after all the millenialbashing I've heard it's hard to feel too sad about that. I can hear 'you fuckers started it' screaming from the back of my mind. But back on the first hand such bashing is mostly the responsibility of a grumpy subset of the older generations and I don't see the point in being a dick to middle aged and old people just because some of them probably deserve it. But back on the second hand, it seems the appropriate use of the phrase is retaliatory. Also, if it is well placed and timed the phrase itself is funny. It's dismissive in just the right way for me to enjoy it, especially if the target deserved the scorn.

 

[tstorm823]

Normal in this case being Straight White Men who conform to standard notions of gender identity.

Snowflake changed because we realized that the people using the term were projecting and scared by people who dared to be themselves, and who cannot stand criticism, ie, the people who used the term snowflake.

Do you also want the 'N word' back?

No, you've got it backwards. It doesn't matter what your conception of normal is. "Snowflake" wasn't a word to describe people as different. It's not "haha, you're different." That is just bigotry. It's the opposite of that. It doesn't matter whether a person is a straight white man who conforms to gender norms or is a gay black woman who doesn't, what makes the snowflake apply is when they act different for the deliberate purpose of being different (and extra points for complaining if people treat them differently as a result). Normal people exist in any combination of race, gender, creed, or sexuality, and plenty of normal people steamroll right over the stereotypes that might be applied to them. Someone becomes a snowflake when they're neither conforming to standards nor behaving naturally, but rather going way out of their way to behave differently so that other people will know how special they are.

Edit because I thought of a better way to express myself:

Being different than other people is normal and fine.
Being the same as other people is also normal and fine.
Thinking less of someone because they are different than others is bad.
Thinking less of someone because they are the same as others is also bad.

"Bigot" is for the person who thinks it bad to be different. "Snowflake" is for the person who thinks it's bad not to be.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

"Boomer" litteraly means a baby boomer, but in this context it's any person who makes remarks like "Back in my days" or "Kids these days", and sometimes even genuinely worried about today's youth without making any effort to understand their viewpoint. Age is a secondary concern in this.

Also: https://twitter.com/MercurialMiss/status/1191484656920793090
The "end of friendly generational relations" is especially baffling, like it was always a thing.

On a side note: A fellow millenial told me that "ok boomer" is something Zoomers came up with, because "they put in two words a sentiment that a millenial would write an essay on". Don't know if it's true, feels like it could be.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Normal in this case being Straight White Men who conform to standard notions of gender identity.

Snowflake changed because we realized that the people using the term were projecting and scared by people who dared to be themselves, and who cannot stand criticism, ie, the people who used the term snowflake.

Do you also want the 'N word' back?

No, you've got it backwards. It doesn't matter what your conception of normal is. "Snowflake" wasn't a word to describe people as different. It's not "haha, you're different." That is just bigotry. It's the opposite of that. It doesn't matter whether a person is a straight white man who conforms to gender norms or is a gay black woman who doesn't, what makes the snowflake apply is when they act different for the deliberate purpose of being different (and extra points for complaining if people treat them differently as a result). Normal people exist in any combination of race, gender, creed, or sexuality, and plenty of normal people steamroll right over the stereotypes that might be applied to them. Someone becomes a snowflake when they're neither conforming to standards nor behaving naturally, but rather going way out of their way to behave differently so that other people will know how special they are.

I always thought 'snowflakes' was for people who asked for unreasonable accommodations and for one reason or another couldn't process normal every day interactions without getting triggered. A snowflake isn't some dude who self-identifies as a attack helicopter, its someone who when they're in line at McDonald's and gets asked 'Would you like fries with that?' and they fall to the ground wailing in terror because once, 5 years ago, they were at a Wendy's, got fries and walked outside and were called a 'Fag' so now they associate being asked if they want fries with hate crimes. Or someone who when you say 'Hey there' falls into a catatonic state because their racists grandfather also says 'Hey there' and they associate greetings with racism.

They're not people who should be mocked, or in need of a safe space, they're people who need aggressive, intensive daily therapy because they can't be around blonde people because they associate blondes with Nazis.

If Im at a conference and I walk up to someone and go 'Hi there, I'm Paul from Corporate, what's your name?' and they start freaking out, because being asked what their name is is their trigger phrase, that's a snowflake. Because there are certain interactions that we, as members of a society, are expected to be able to handle. And the whole point of snowflakes, safe-spaces and trigger warnings are signs that this person is not capable of these interactions.

That's a snowflake. Someone who demands unreasonable things from society - don't have blonde people, no whites, no blacks, don't say hello, don't make eye contact, don't ask me if I want fries when I order fast food, drinking water while driving reminds me of my molesting uncle who also drank water and drove, yellow tape gives me flashbacks, etc...

 

[tstorm823]

I always thought 'snowflakes' was for people who asked for unreasonable accommodations and for one reason or another couldn't process normal every day interactions without getting triggered. A snowflake isn't some dude who self-identifies as a attack helicopter, its someone who when they're in line at McDonald's and gets asked 'Would you like fries with that?' and they fall to the ground wailing in terror because once, 5 years ago, they were at a Wendy's, got fries and walked outside and were called a 'Fag' so now they associate being asked if they want fries with hate crimes. Or someone who when you say 'Hey there' falls into a catatonic state because their racists grandfather also says 'Hey there' and they associate greetings with racism.

They're not people who should be mocked, or in need of a safe space, they're people who need aggressive, intensive daily therapy because they can't be around blonde people because they associate blondes with Nazis.

If Im at a conference and I walk up to someone and go 'Hi there, I'm Paul from Corporate, what's your name?' and they start freaking out, because being asked what their name is is their trigger phrase, that's a snowflake. Because there are certain interactions that we, as members of a society, are expected to be able to handle. And the whole point of snowflakes, safe-spaces and trigger warnings are signs that this person is not capable of these interactions.

That's a snowflake. Someone who demands unreasonable things from society - don't have blonde people, no whites, no blacks, don't say hello, don't make eye contact, don't ask me if I want fries when I order fast food, drinking water while driving reminds me of my molesting uncle who also drank water and drove, yellow tape gives me flashbacks, etc...

You're not incorrect, that is how people use the term now. But I hate that the meaning changed, because it's etymologically nonsensical. "Special snowflake" started as a term for the sort of person who puts 17 obscure identifiers in their tumblr profile to makes sure nobody suspects they're a normal human being. At some point, it shapeshifted to instead describe anyone who gets "triggered". I don't know why, and I hate it.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I always thought 'snowflakes' was for people who asked for unreasonable accommodations and for one reason or another couldn't process normal every day interactions without getting triggered. A snowflake isn't some dude who self-identifies as a attack helicopter, its someone who when they're in line at McDonald's and gets asked 'Would you like fries with that?' and they fall to the ground wailing in terror because once, 5 years ago, they were at a Wendy's, got fries and walked outside and were called a 'Fag' so now they associate being asked if they want fries with hate crimes. Or someone who when you say 'Hey there' falls into a catatonic state because their racists grandfather also says 'Hey there' and they associate greetings with racism.

They're not people who should be mocked, or in need of a safe space, they're people who need aggressive, intensive daily therapy because they can't be around blonde people because they associate blondes with Nazis.

If Im at a conference and I walk up to someone and go 'Hi there, I'm Paul from Corporate, what's your name?' and they start freaking out, because being asked what their name is is their trigger phrase, that's a snowflake. Because there are certain interactions that we, as members of a society, are expected to be able to handle. And the whole point of snowflakes, safe-spaces and trigger warnings are signs that this person is not capable of these interactions.

That's a snowflake. Someone who demands unreasonable things from society - don't have blonde people, no whites, no blacks, don't say hello, don't make eye contact, don't ask me if I want fries when I order fast food, drinking water while driving reminds me of my molesting uncle who also drank water and drove, yellow tape gives me flashbacks, etc...

You're not incorrect, that is how people use the term now. But I hate that the meaning changed, because it's etymologically nonsensical. "Special snowflake" started as a term for the sort of person who puts 17 obscure identifiers in their tumblr profile to makes sure nobody suspects they're a normal human being. At some point, it shapeshifted to instead describe anyone who gets "triggered". I don't know why, and I hate it.

I can't find that anywhere.

According to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(slang)

Its mostly from Fight Club, and always meant "mostly to millennials who were allegedly too convinced of their own status as special and unique people to be able (or bothered) to handle the normal trials and travails of regular adult life"

 

[tstorm823]

I can't find that anywhere.

According to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(slang)

Its mostly from Fight Club, and always meant "mostly to millennials who were allegedly too convinced of their own status as special and unique people to be able (or bothered) to handle the normal trials and travails of regular adult life"

The answer is always TV Tropes.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpecialSnowflakeSyndrome

My detective work tells me that's been listed as a trope for almost a decade. The article on encyclopedia dramatica is also around that ago (not linking because it's not a nice place to be), but says "It is very easy to diagnose somebody with Special Snowflake Syndrome, as they won't hesitate to tell you how special they are as soon as they find an open 'reply' box to post in."

If you look for usage of the word around 2013, it's pretty much 100% lobbing grenades at people who think they are inherently more unique than everyone else. And then the 2016 election cycle seemingly murdered that usage and replaced it with trite meaninglessness.

 

[Batou667]

Are we talking about Baby Boomers, people born after 1945?

If everybody else is talking about the Left 4 Dead enemy and I'm the only one who thinks it means Baby Boomers, boy will my face be red.

 

[Batou667]

Everything millenials want, free health care, affordable school and housing, equal rights, an end to the military industrial complex, a safer/cleaner planet, the rich to pay taxes, inclusion, end to harassment, etc...are all things Boomers are openly against.

That's a mean-spirited, broad-strokes and simply incorrect opinion to hold.

Among the Boomer generation you had hippies, anti-war and Nuclear Disarmament protestors. This was the generation that collectively thumbed their noses at their flag-saluting, apple-pie parents and skipped church to play guitar, take mind-expanding drugs and philosophise about free love and post-capitalist communes. This generation witnessed desegregation in the US and as adults would be the voters, lobbyists and dealmakers throwing their weight behind the end of the Cold War and Apartheid.

What you're doing is making sweeping generalisations about a very specific subset of people who are retirees (or close to it) and assuming that just because *some* of them are reactionary old farts who refuse to make the smallest concession to progressiveness or environmentalism, they're all like that. You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I can't find that anywhere.

According to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(slang)

Its mostly from Fight Club, and always meant "mostly to millennials who were allegedly too convinced of their own status as special and unique people to be able (or bothered) to handle the normal trials and travails of regular adult life"

The answer is always TV Tropes.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpecialSnowflakeSyndrome

My detective work tells me that's been listed as a trope for almost a decade. The article on encyclopedia dramatica is also around that ago (not linking because it's not a nice place to be), but says "It is very easy to diagnose somebody with Special Snowflake Syndrome, as they won't hesitate to tell you how special they are as soon as they find an open 'reply' box to post in."

If you look for usage of the word around 2013, it's pretty much 100% lobbing grenades at people who think they are inherently more unique than everyone else. And then the 2016 election cycle seemingly murdered that usage and replaced it with trite meaninglessness.

I dunno, I'm pretty sure Fight Club predates 2013

SNIP

Ok Boomer

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

This is just people who don't get meme culture being upset at a meme. It's like Hillary calling out Pepe the frog, all it'll do is popularize the thing you're singling out and make people go to it more than they would have had you not singled it out in the first place.

I mean, I've heard that anyone over 30 can be called a boomer, here they say over 40, either case, there's no strict parameters to any of this. It's all just sarcasm and jokes. It's kinda like dismissing something by calling it "mansplaining" but with a different flavor of bigotry attached. Nothing serious or worth noting.

 

[tstorm823]

I dunno, I'm pretty sure Fight Club predates 2013

Yes, I'm aware. The line from Fight Club is ""You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We are all part of the same compost heap."

The Fight Club usage of the term is telling people they aren't unique. Also, Merriam Webster (which wikipedia was citing) lists two definitions for "snowflake" in the disparaging sense,

"informal + usually disparaging
a: someone regarded or treated as unique or special
b: someone who is overly sensitive"

So that's a lot of evidence my way that the insult started out mocking people for acting like they're special. And also, I found this entire article [https://thinkprogress.org/all-the-special-snowflakes-aaf1a922f37b/] basically describing what I'm talking about, though without the love of the older usage and with the partisanship we know and love from Think Progress.

 

[Saelune]

Normal in this case being Straight White Men who conform to standard notions of gender identity.

Snowflake changed because we realized that the people using the term were projecting and scared by people who dared to be themselves, and who cannot stand criticism, ie, the people who used the term snowflake.

Do you also want the 'N word' back?

No, you've got it backwards. It doesn't matter what your conception of normal is. "Snowflake" wasn't a word to describe people as different. It's not "haha, you're different." That is just bigotry. It's the opposite of that. It doesn't matter whether a person is a straight white man who conforms to gender norms or is a gay black woman who doesn't, what makes the snowflake apply is when they act different for the deliberate purpose of being different (and extra points for complaining if people treat them differently as a result). Normal people exist in any combination of race, gender, creed, or sexuality, and plenty of normal people steamroll right over the stereotypes that might be applied to them. Someone becomes a snowflake when they're neither conforming to standards nor behaving naturally, but rather going way out of their way to behave differently so that other people will know how special they are.

Edit because I thought of a better way to express myself:

Being different than other people is normal and fine.
Being the same as other people is also normal and fine.
Thinking less of someone because they are different than others is bad.
Thinking less of someone because they are the same as others is also bad.

"Bigot" is for the person who thinks it bad to be different. "Snowflake" is for the person who thinks it's bad not to be.

Then why do you support Trump? He does those things and you support him.

 

[tstorm823]

Then why do you support Trump? He does those things and you support him.

Because a) he doesn't do those things with nearly the frequency or severity you accuse him of, and b) the question of the Trump era is "can a bad person do good things?" It's also probably a bit of Catholicism leaking out, with the hope of redemption for the sinner. Trump is a lot like a Zaccheaus figure.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Yes, I'm aware. The line from Fight Club is ""You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We are all part of the same compost heap."

There's another one too.

I've met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, "Why?" Why did I cause so much pain? Didn't I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness? Can't I see how we're all manifestations of love? I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God's got this all wrong.

Again, it's not about individuals thinking they are special but about society telling them that they are.

It doesn't matter whether a person is a straight white man who conforms to gender norms or is a gay black woman who doesn't, what makes the snowflake apply is when they act different for the deliberate purpose of being different (and extra points for complaining if people treat them differently as a result).

Which in practice means that it does matter whether a person is a straight white man who conforms to gender norms or is a gay black woman who doesn't, because certain forms of difference will always be interpreted as more unnecessary or superfluous than others. You know this on some level, it's why you mentioned tumblr, because tumblr was (and to some degree still is) the preferred platform of young queer people.

Let's be real, someone who identifies as a "gamer", who based their identity on video games and who is so obsessed with preserving the purity of their identity that they are concerned about whether people are "fake gamers" or not is never going to be described as a snowflake under your definition. It's only going to apply to, for example, non-binary people, likely accompanied with some ground breaking and original humour along the lines of "I identify as an attack helicopter".

They're not people who should be mocked, or in need of a safe space, they're people who need aggressive, intensive daily therapy because they can't be around blonde people because they associate blondes with Nazis.

I like your definition (relatively speaking) because while it's deeply unpleasant, it's at least honest. You know on some level that the way you're using the term is really ableist, which is why you have to clarify that it's not about mocking people with trauma-based mental conditions. Oh no, it's an entirely neutral way of referencing their supposed fragility and inability to fit into normal society.

So, let's say someone is a military veteran who has literally seen people burned alive, then one day they are at a barbeque and suddenly, just for a second, they emotionally flashback to that incident, become distressed, and have to get away from the smell of burning. Would you say that person is a "snowflake?"

If you were the host of that barbecue, would you class that as an unreasonable action?

Would you be upset that this person has ruined your barbecue, or infer that they are somehow suggesting that you aren't allowed to have barbecues? Do you think anyone expected you to have considered that sometime attending your barbecue might react negatively to the smell of burning? Moreover, would you be personally offended if that person didn't want to come to future barbecues?

If it doesn't apply in that situation, then how is it different with any other form of trauma? Do you think a person who was sexually abused as a child, or trapped in a life threatening fire, or held at gun or knife point during a robbery is any less entitled to consideration or accommodation?

It's pretty obvious that what's at stake here is less about protecting traumatized people, and more about protecting so-called normal people from having to acknowledge anyone else's suffering or make any accommodation, reasonable or otherwise. I lived with and cared for someone who had suffered unbelievable childhood abuse. Eating was a trigger for them. All anyone is ever asking is that you respond with basic humanity to people who have endured things you cannot possibly understand.

Also, while it shouldn't matter, if we're talking about resilience and fragility, it's probably best not to go after people who have both physically and mentally survived situations that may well have killed you if you had ever had to live through them.

 

[Trunkage]

Are we talking about Baby Boomers, people born after 1945?

If everybody else is talking about the Left 4 Dead enemy and I'm the only one who thinks it means Baby Boomers, boy will my face be red.

Damn, you caught me with a drink in my mouth. It almost didn't stay in there and, in the process of keeping it in, ended up in my nose.

You'd think the fact that they're in some way related (i.e. by blood) would help, but it certainly feels like the Boomer generation hate their grandchildren communists.

Fixed that for you. I personally get along well with basically every generation but my own by virtue of not being a communist.

Are we pulling out that often misattributed Winston Churchill quote. Because Millennials are now 40 - "they should only think with their brains now."

Sidebar, I didn't know New Zealand was apart of the Down Under Moniker. Learning rocks.

Ah, I see you've caught onto our cleverly disguised plan of stealing all the good ideas from NZ and claiming them as Aussie, and all the crap things are New Zealander

OT: Literally, I can't believe this didn't happen earlier. It defuses some of their utter nonsense. But then, a lot of what Boomers call Millennials nowadays are actually Zoomers and everyone started realising that these particular Boomers are just out to get everyone. So... Karma